How did they capture thog anyway?

[King of Nowhere]

There's no way common town guards can capture an high level adventurer.
Of course, an organized nation can surely counbt on the loialty of several high level people, and will recour to them is someone resist arrest and kill town guards.
That's why Roy and Belkar let themselves be captured. They were just missing documents, they tougth a fee and a nigth in prison was the worst that could happen to them.
The bounty hunters let themselves be arrested because they were counting on the bounty receipt to prove their innocence.

But Thog? Thog is not rational, so if the police tries to arrest him he'd just go on a killing spree, and there's no way town guards can stop him (see cliffport).
Even if Thog WAS thinking rationally (yeah, an oximoron), he'd know that someone would recognize him, so he shouldn't let himslef be arrested.

So, why did thog let himself be arrested?
So far, I have 3 hypotesis:
1) thog being thog, maybe he just didn't resist because the guards were nice to him. Maybe they offered him an ice cream if he surrendered?
2) Nale told thog to act that way, as a part off an elaborate plan. So, he and sabine are really there somewhere.
3) Thog went on a killing spree after they tried to stop him for public orination, but he was already stopped by the ninja squad after a while.

Discuss

[Grogmir]

Sprinkles, Hundreds and Thousands of sprinkles.

[John Cribati]

Charm Person (or Charm Monster)

[Dr.Epic]

Thog's will save is remarkably low. There are a number of spells that could have been cast on him to place him under arrest.

[Scarlet Knight]

Well, it seems Thog was caught with his pants down...:smallwink:

[faustin]

Thog´s capture it must be part of another overcomplicated plan of our favorite mastermind villain (No, not Tarquin) :smalltongue:

[Tankadin]

Well, it seems Thog was caught with his pants down...:smallwink:

Boooooo...



Keep up the good work.

[NerfTW]

Yeah, I would be absolutely shocked if this wasn't part of whatever Nale's plan is.


Of course, I'm already shocked Nale even came to the Western continent, given his history there.

[Wenin]

Well they had since strip 458 to capture him =)

[Ancalagon]

Of course, I'm already shocked Nale even came to the Western continent, given his history there.

I think it's very likely he goes there.

Nale wants vengeance. He cannot access Elan so I find it likely he turns towards his father next.

The plot to do that would even be obvious to me (and to Nale as well): Nale knows what ploy his father is attempting, so he convinces the elves about the evil his father poses and offers to help them against him.

This would explain why the elven ambassador is staring at Vaarsuvius. The elf is there to help and coordinate the attack (together with Nale) and wonders why another elf is working - obviously! - with Tarquin. In this version, we do not even need the elves knowing about "the stunt with the dragons" to be concerned/angry about Vaarsuvius.

Nale could even be honest with the elves (of course he is not but plans to doubletriple cross them somehow). He'd get an empire, the elves shatter the threatening block of staged empires south of their own realms.

How Thog being in the arena fits into that is unclear - but I assume this simply could be a screwup by Thog. Or Nale tried to get rid of him, as Thog and his elves-plan probably do not mix well. I like this theory as it seems to make sense and explains how Thog ended up in the arena. I bet imaginary 10 gp that this is what Nale is actually planning.

Anyone has a better theory or is othervise in on that bet? ;)

[EmperorSarda]

Maybe Nale never did get Thog a Great Axe either...

[Outsidelime]

How can be explained any number of ways. Magical means, trickery, or sheer force of numbers, for some easy examples. The question in my mind is more why. Thog is too valuable an asset for Nale to a) totally abandon deliberately or b) not rescue immediately if he got captured by accident.

My hunch is that Nale had some subtle or complex tasks to accomplish that Thog might've spoiled if he was around. The easy solution is to drop him off at a daycare center... which in Thog's case is an arena of death. He gets his juice and cookies, he gets new toys to play with, and mommy & daddy can pick him up when they're ready.

~Josh

[John Cribati]

Thog is too valuable an asset

Stop right there. The rest of the post is now irrelevant. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0255.html)

[Outsidelime]

Just because Nale is willing to let Thog be hit with an anvil doesn't mean that he considers him expendable. Especially considering that Thog probably wouldn't even notice it.

~Josh

edit: Okay I just noticed the "find new fighter for afterwards" tag on Nale's To-Do list on his blueprint, but that's gotta be a joke considering that Nale can't expect a falling standard anvil to seriously hurt Thog... he's seen him happily munched on by an adult Red Dragon with no apparent harm!

[Ancalagon]

Any plan that has the remote possibility of Thog ending up an in gladiatorial arena considers him to be "expandable".

It would not be beyond Nale to put Thog there just to tell Tarquin "Look, I'm in your Empire!"
What happens to Thog? Who cares.

[TrueLazy]

I like the idea of Thog being in the arena by the accounts of some plan from Nale, pretty plausible. Though as it's about how Thog got arrested, here's a thing you should think about.

If Nale told Thog to let himself get arrested then this act alone would make Tarquin highly suspicious. He knows who Thog is, maybe not the full extent of his strenght, and if he hears Thog let himself be captured with little to no resistance this will obviously raise some sort of suspicion on Tarquin's side. Wheter he knows how strong Thog is or not, he does know what kind of person Thog is and he isn't one to get arrested just like that.

Because of this, I find it highly unlikely that Nale told Thog to get arrested. Of course this doesn't mean Thog's arrest isn't a part of a possible plan from Nale, it wouldn't be hard to trick Thog in getting himself arrested.

The way in which would probably be still through sheer physical power (numbers and resources), magic, trickery or a combination of those.
Dozens of spells can render Thog immoble for capture, heck as stated before a simple charm person probably would have worked and that's a lvl1 spell.

What about a simple lvl1 bard with fascinate to keep him occupied for backup? Not like he could resist a good perform check nor a full squad of guards with a attack ready in melee and ranged.

Just some thoughts, I find it most likely that he got captured through "force" by townguards when he was on some sort of killing spree/rampage. Wheter that was part of a possible plan from Nale is something else.

[King of Nowhere]

I'm considering more plausible the idea that it's part of some scheme after reading the answers.
But it's sorta confusing.
Last panel jokes or not, Thog is one of the most powerful melee combatant of the world, and as such, a valuable asset no matter what. Nale wouldn't sacrifice him without getting something important back. Probably Nale wanted Thog to be in the arena (and fully expected him to survive indefinitely), but how could he predict that Roy would have ended up there?
Or maybe that wasn't part of Nale's plan, but thog just screwed up and got arrested. Yeah, his saving throws sucks, a first level caster with a charm person would stand a good chance of getting him. After that, I don't think Nale could rescue him from that prison. It's pretty well guarded, and it takes a high level thief to pick that lock in the anti magic field. I don't think Nale or sabine can open that door in any way. Not quickly enough to avoid the high level patrols that would be sernt to the prison at the firrst sign of alarm, at least.
Well, I could keep speculating, but I go to sleep now.

[Gift Jeraff]

Thog says, "fudge the police!" and can kill with his bare hands (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0782.html), so I don't think complying with authorities or being unarmed was the problem.

Probably part of a needlessly complex plan.

[Gray Mage]

Just because Nale is willing to let Thog be hit with an anvil doesn't mean that he considers him expendable. Especially considering that Thog probably wouldn't even notice it.

~Josh

edit: Okay I just noticed the "find new fighter for afterwards" tag on Nale's To-Do list on his blueprint, but that's gotta be a joke considering that Nale can't expect a falling standard anvil to seriously hurt Thog... he's seen him happily munched on by an adult Red Dragon with no apparent harm!

Nale also ditched Thog in Cliffport's jail, so I wouldn't say he values Thog too much.

[Jay R]

My hunch is that Nale had some subtle or complex tasks to accomplish that Thog might've spoiled if he was around. The easy solution is to drop him off at a daycare center... which in Thog's case is an arena of death. He gets his juice and cookies, he gets new toys to play with, and mommy & daddy can pick him up when they're ready.

Beautiful. Just beautiful.

[Flame of Anor]

Also, I seriously doubt Tarquin is anywhere near GenreBlind enough to make low-level mooks his police.

[MoonCat]

Scary illusion.

[Deliverance]

Also, I seriously doubt Tarquin is anywhere near GenreBlind enough to make low-level mooks his police.
What else can he use?

If you need a large army and a large police force, you pretty much have to stick with lowlevel mooks providing the muscle since higher level characters are rare.

[King of Nowhere]

the best thing you can do, provvided you have the resources, is keeping a large police force of low level mooks, provide them with some cheap but quick magic mean of communication, and keep the high level team ready with a teleport spell.
Pretty much wht they were doing in azure city with dancing ligths and tsukiko's black saquadron.
Only, they did the incredibly stupid thing of putting a brown cloak on their caster, signaling to the enemy who had the magic communications. Migth as well paint a bullseye on their coats. Me, I'd give the wizards cardboard armor, so that they would be diusguised as figthers and the enemy (hopefully) won't focus them from the beginning.

[AgentofOdd]

The odd thing is that Thog is only charged with public urination, not resisting arrest. You'd think that in a nation that views it's troops as disposable mooks, he would've killed a few everyday law enforcers without even trying before they brought in the special forces to subdue individuals with PC levels. Maybe the nation got lucky and/or Nale planned it like this all along. Though to be honest, I've no idea why Nale would want that.

[Anarion]

Nale mentions here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0458.html) on page 2 panel 7 that
A) he knows about the other two gates and
B) he specifically plans to go after another one of the two gates.

So we already knew since 458 that he was either going very far north (where I believe that the gate Serini had built is located) or to the Western Continent. It seems like the northern gate is very far out of the way, since Lien and O-Chul still haven't gotten there as far as we know. Morever, Nale is all about petty revenge, so given the opportunity to both go after a gate and potentially disrupt his father's plans, Nale had an easy choice of where to travel.

As far as Thog's arrest, the odds on bet is that Nale wanted him to get arrested and guessed that Thog would have an easy time surviving in the arena. I have a semi-crazy theory about why Nale did this, so I'll put it in as spoiler tag
So, I think that Nale wants Thog in the arena because Thog as a gladiator is capable of performing an incredible distraction. I suspect that the green-haired elf is either Sabine or Nale polymorphed (Nale could have learned the spell or bought a wand of alter self) and that the third one si also nearby. Nale has probably been planning an assassination attempt on Tarquin, wherein Thog would create a disruption in the arena which would require pulling away most of the guards to quell. That would leave Tarquin vulnerable to a joint attack by Nale and Sabine, particularly if Nale used magic to dominate the few guards left around Tarquin.

Lastly, I suspect that Nale is out of his league against Tarquin. Tarquin has shown that he never leaves home without numerous magic items and that he knows various techniques to protect himself. If Elan hadn't shown up when he did, Nale probably would have tried and failed to kill Tarquin, although now the situation is much more interesting.

[King of Nowhere]

regarding the fact that he's inside for just public urination, i wonder what they do in this country to those who commit real crimes.
Thus far i have two ideas:
1) the epire of blood is doing really good at keeping crime low. No one ever commits a crime more serious that being without documents (which is anyway a really bad crime). No one steals or murders, because the empire protects YOU! Whoever will say that there are those crimes in the eob, is committing a crimethink and will be persecuted by the miniluv.
Glory to the eob! war is peace! freedom is slavery! ignorance is strength!

2) those who commit really bad crimes, got pomoted and hired in the army.

[Ganurath]

I theorize that, after early resistance, Tarquin got wind of Thog's presence and quickly thwarted him with a trail of candy to the gladiator pit.

[Morgan Wick]

Just because Nale is willing to let Thog be hit with an anvil doesn't mean that he considers him expendable. Especially considering that Thog probably wouldn't even notice it.

~Josh

edit: Okay I just noticed the "find new fighter for afterwards" tag on Nale's To-Do list on his blueprint, but that's gotta be a joke considering that Nale can't expect a falling standard anvil to seriously hurt Thog... he's seen him happily munched on by an adult Red Dragon with no apparent harm!

Okay, the earlier sequence includes an entire strip devoted entirely to making fun of Harry Potter, Nale rejecting using a Celine Dion album to torture Elan, and in that particular strip, a riff on Wile E. Coyote's convoluted plans in Road Runner cartoons. I think it's pretty safe to say OOTS' Cerebus Syndrome hadn't affected the Linear Guild yet. Even though the Guild got that Cerebus Syndrome going in the first place.

In other words, it wouldn't surprise me if Thog's abilities changed as the Guild started being looked at more seriously. Keep in mind, back in Cliffport, Roy and Haley seemed to take him down fairly easily. Yeah, they're adventurers, but still, I don't think that Thog has been depicted as this powerful before... that Red Dragon incident you mentioned, actually (though 252 could hint at it).

Although, if we want to look at it the other way:
:thog:: :smallbiggrin: thog not feel spleen.

[Gift Jeraff]

he's seen him happily munched on by an adult Red Dragon with no apparent harm!
The Empress of Blood is probably fairly young (for a dragon). She can't cast arcane spells, although I'm willing to accept that as the result of a Charisma penalty. But size-wise, she seemed about the same size as the Young Adult Black Dragon, who should be Large, whereas red dragons reach Huge by Young Adult.

I'm guessing she was Juvenile in the flashback with Thog, and then hit Young Adult (which would of course be portrayed as a sudden growth spurt in OOTS) sometime during her quest for obesity.



Keep in mind, back in Cliffport, Roy and Haley seemed to take him down fairly easily.I don't think that indicates anything regarding Thog's strength.
"nale told thog to stay in jail with not-nale until nale comes back for thog." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0387.html)

[Morgan Wick]

I don't think that indicates anything regarding Thog's strength.
"nale told thog to stay in jail with not-nale until nale comes back for thog." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0387.html)

Then why did he resist arrest at first?

Also, Nale may have only told Thog to stay with Elan once he was captured, to provide plausible deniability. Nale wouldn't necessarily have disagreed with Thog escaping to "live another day". He certainly wouldn't have necessarily needed to take him to Azure City (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0399.html) (or even change the plan that much).

[martianmister]

Then why did he resist arrest at first?

To attract the attention of OotS.

[lothos]

It probably is part of Nale's plan to have Thog in the arena... so Thog was just told by Nale not to resist arrest, as many others have already pointed out.

However it occurs to me that if you wanted to bring down Thog, either some magic requiring a will save (as has already been suggested) or possibly some intelligence draining poison. I imagine there isn't that far to go to get Thog down to 0 intelligence where he would be helpless.

[snikrept]

Tarquin is smart. Tarquin has fought Thog before.

Tarquin probably just had his police tell Thog how he could be the Champion in the arena and get to fight as much as he wants, and Thog came willingly. Thog probably LIKES being chained up in that ridiculous armor suit.

[Alchemist_Fire]

In hindsight, the bold lettering and initial underscored rrrrrRRRRRWWRR! should have been (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0786.html) a bigger giveaway :)