Factotum Gap-Filler

[Torvon]

My dearest friends of awesomeness and attractiveness.

Our group needs a new character, since the cleric has left us without a healer. What we have is:
- Very resilient dwarven rogue, rather low damage output, skill monkey.
- Psychic warrior trip-monster. High AC, high damage.
- Mage/Warrior/Runesmith thingie. Tough, lots of gimmicks, but his caster level isn't so high due to 2 levels of warrior.
- Artificer. High charisma, gnome, face of the group. Plenty of gimmicks.

I will stop playing my old character now, and want to fill the gaps. I have always wanted to play a factotum.

What we need is:
- Ranged precision damage (possibly)
- Some skills, mostly knowledge (totally)
- Buffing (yup)
- Healing (with enough WIS possible)

So, as far as I see it, Factotum fits nicely. We are at level 8 currently. The class seems like a good amount of fun to me, the question is where I go with it.

Stats & feats:
We go with 18/16/14/12/10/8 for stats.
If I want to do some archery, I need to have high dex and take the feats accordingly. If I want to heal, the Factotum dumpstat Wisdom needs to be at least 14, if I understand the mechanism correctly. Knowledge devotion is obviously a no-brainer if I want to do damage at all, and a familiar sounds like a lot of fun to me also.

What I do not want is to play the role of a rogue, since we have that already. Also, no ninjiatsu (or however you spell that) gnome quick razor cheese ...

I read the factotum handbook, but it has very little regarding archery. Could you guys pep up a build that works with what the group needs?

I'd appreciate the input. No weird races, human sounds fine to me. An +INT race would be better, but most of them are all pretty non-standard. Any suggestions?

Thank you very much!

ta-ta
Torvon

PS.: one of the reasons I stop playing my current character (whispergnome rogue4/swordsage4) is that he supposedly is too strong compared to the other characters (powerlevel). So, I'm happy for all suggestions, but not the too cheesy stuff, please ;)

EDIT: just had a brilliant idea ... INT 18 und WIS 16 for healing, dump DEX, and take Zen Archery feat for ranged combat? That would make me less MAD. What do you guys think?

[gomipile]

See if your DM will let you qualify for Deadeye Shot(PHB II) as a Factotum 8.

Technically by RAW, you need at least one level of rogue to fill the sneak attack requirement, but the Factotum does have the ability to perform sneak attacks, so the DM might be flexible on this.

Another decent option is the Hidden Blade skill trick from Complete Scoundrel. You could even focus on skill tricks and pick up the Uncanny Trickster PrC to get an extra use of it per encounter. A Factotum 17/ Uncanny Trickster 3 still gets the awesome Factotum level 19 special ability as well.

[gomipile]

Oh, you probably want to get a Ring of Blinking as soon as you can, too. That will let you get sneak attacks(ranged or otherwise) on a full attack nearly all the time, among other benefits.

[gorfnab]

What we need is:
- Ranged precision damage (possibly)
- Some skills, mostly knowledge (totally)
- Buffing (yup)
- Healing (with enough WIS possible)

You could potentially go with Bard instead. Something like Bard 8/ Arcane Archer 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Ruathar or Sacred Exorcist 3. This would give you Inspire Courage or Dragonfire Inspiration to increase damage output and to help with buffing, knowledge skills, and healing through spells.

Otherwise if you're set on using Factotum for archery I would recommend reading through The Archery Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=642.0).

[faceroll]

Don't waste anything in wisdom for healing. If you get to start with any WBL, buy two wands of lesser vigor. They cost 750 gp each, and heal 11 HP per charge, over 11 rounds. If those are too "exotic", a wand of cure light wounds costs the same and heals an average of 5.5HP/charge. Very useful for out of combat healing.

If you really need in combat healing, Belt of Healing I am told is nice, you could also pick up a few scrolls of Cure Serious or Cure Critical wounds, then charge party members for every time you use them on them.

[Talbot]

Knowledge Devotion is a very solid call. And, since you have Turn Attempts, picking up Travel Devotion (move & Full Attack as an archer? Yes please.) or one of the other nifty Devotion feats is a good plan as well. Item Familiar could be fun on a bow for A) free enhancements and B) extra skill points to chuck into Knowledge skills. Zen Archery is not a bad call, and if your DM lets you, Faerie Mystery Initiate pretty much means you don't ever need Con. Factotum can do some real damage with Manyshot and/or Craven, so those are both decent calls.

It's not high-op, but if you're worried about your low Fort/HD and want to beef up your damage a little, some levels in Swashbuckler (which will completely get rid of the need for Str) and/or Warblade (because Maneuvers are fun) will make you a bit more well rounded in case you ever get stuck in melee while still capitalizing on your Int.

If you're dumping Dex, Insightful Reflexes may be worth a look, although you do have good Ref. Additionally, taking Font of Inspiration a couple of times is never a bad plan with Factotums.

It might be an option to multiclass with Scout a bit, for free Archery feats and Skirmish's precision damage, and you'd still have loads of skill points.

[Draz74]

The way to get good archery damage out of a Factotum is ... basically just Knowledge Devotion and normal archery feats/items. Manyshot, particularly, has good synergy with Cunning Surge.

So you shouldn't dump DEX, since you really want to qualify for Manyshot (and you'll be plenty feat-starved even without trying to fit in Zen Archery).

If Manyshot + Knowledge Devotion isn't enough, one trick that I like to increase archer damage is to worship Ehlonna, take the True Believer feat, and get some Raptor Arrows (Magic Item Compendium). This might conflict with taking Knowledge Devotion, if your DM is a stickler for fluff requirements (though technically by RAW it's fine).

So I don't imagine your Wisdom will end up being better than 14 or so. That's fine -- the Factotum isn't going to be an uber-healer anyway, even with 18 Wisdom.

Note that the main reason Opportunistic Piety is better than just a Healing Belt or a wand of Cure Light Wounds is because you can buy Caduceus Bracers (Magic Item Compendium, 2000 gp) to convert your HP-healing into healing other conditions, such as ability damage or fatigue or sickened. If you want to pretend to be a healer as a Factotum, this item is a must-have.

[HalfDragonCube]

If you want a nice Int synergy then try going for the Archivist class. Lots of lovely abilities and divine spellcasting.

I am currently playing a Wizard/Archivist soon to go to Mystic Theurge and love it.

[Lateral]

You're at level 8? Factotums really come into their own there, 'cause of Cunning Surge. Factotums get every skill known, but not nearly enough skill points, so Human would be a good choice if you're not going to be using Iaijutsu Focus. Healing isn't really your strong suit, but you can certainly help out with buffs via Arcane Dilettante. If you're going to be ranged, take Greater Manyshot and use Cunning Surge to get a lot of attacks per round.

[Torvon]

Thank you all for the input. I read the Archery Handbook again, and don't want to things to be too complicated, I'll just stick with Factotum all the way I think.

* Travel Devotion
Great idea, thank you. Very handy for a factotum who does some archery on the side.

* Faerie Mystery Initiate
I'll try to get this approved, our DM gives us one regional feat for free. Don't see it happening though. Would be nice, I could grab a higher CHA then and dump CON.

* Craven
Nope. One of the reasons I stop playing my old character. :smallwink: ...

* Caduceus Bracers
Sweet. Thanks. Any additional ideas about equipment?

* Archery
I will not be a primary damage dealer. Looking at the feat investment that is required, I currently favour (1) Point Blank Shot and (2) Rapid Shot, and leave it like that. The Precise Shot can be a bow enchantment (+1), and manyshot is nice, but I am a bit feat starved. Also, it more or less replaces rapid shot, making both point blank shot and rapid shot pretty worthless feats since they would both be prerequesites.

* Poison
I'm still playing around the idea of craft:poisonmaking and the drow poison feat. Probably not worth it at level 8+, plenty of poison immunes and cost inefficient ...

* Archivist
Sounds like a great class, both mechanically and from a fluff perspective. However, my BAB are already not optimal, I'm not sure whether I would destroy my archery investment.

Any additional comments?

All the best ;)
Torvon

[Talbot]

Font of Inspiration is pretty much always the answer to "what to do with left over Factotum feats".

[Draz74]

* Caduceus Bracers
Sweet. Thanks. Any additional ideas about equipment?
Oh, there's always tons of stuff to recommend for equipment. Tome of Worldly Memory is a dirt-cheap item that's fantastic for Knowledge checks. Also MIC.

And of course you want to eventually get all sorts of cool +2-equivalent Arrows, such as Bane (various types), Dispelling, Stygian, Illusion Bane ... Arrows are cheap.

In general, the Archery Handbook has a bunch of good Equipment suggestions.


* Archery
I will not be a primary damage dealer. Looking at the feat investment that is required, I currently favour (1) Point Blank Shot and (2) Rapid Shot, and leave it like that. The Precise Shot can be a bow enchantment (+1), and manyshot is nice, but I am a bit feat starved. Also, it more or less replaces rapid shot, making both point blank shot and rapid shot pretty worthless feats since they would both be prerequesites.

Thing is, you can make a full attack using Rapid Shot, then use Cunning Surge to get an extra standard action, then use Manyshot to fire off multiple arrows with that extra standard action. All in one turn. That's why Manyshot is cool on a Factotum even if he's feat-starved. I'd take it before I took Travel Devotion, since archers in general need mobility less than other damage-dealing characters.

It's not required, though. My favorite Factotum archer build doesn't take Manyshot, either. (He's got a couple feats that are mostly for flavor. So Manyshot just doesn't fit.)

Note the coolest spell for Factotums to buff themselves with: Heroics. Give yourself a Fighter feat for 10 min/level. My aforementioned Factotum gives himself Manyshot using that.

[Torvon]

Great ideas, thanks.

Another question:
Cunning Insight (Ex) let's me add INT (+6) to a damage roll for one point inspiration.
Cunning Strike (Ex) let's me add 1d6 sneak damage to a damage roll for one point inspiration.

Am I missing something? Why would you ever want to use Cunning Strike?

Thanks

[Cog]

1) The two abilities stack.
2) Some special abilities trigger only on a sneak attack.

[true_shinken]

Great ideas, thanks.

Another question:
Cunning Insight (Ex) let's me add INT (+6) to a damage roll for one point inspiration.
Cunning Strike (Ex) let's me add 1d6 sneak damage to a damage roll for one point inspiration.

Am I missing something? Why would you ever want to use Cunning Strike?

Thanks

I thought Cunning Strike worked for a full round.

[Torvon]

1) The two abilities stack.
2) Some special abilities trigger only on a sneak attack.
Does cunning strike stack with itself? Can I spend 5 points for 5d6 sneak damage?


I thought Cunning Strike worked for a full round.
"to a single attack"
That's why they recommend "Manyshot" because it counts as one attack, although it's up to 4 arrows (correct me if I'm wrong here, but that's how I read the threads).

ta-ta
T.

[Forged Fury]

Does cunning strike stack with itself? Can I spend 5 points for 5d6 sneak damage?
According to Wizards (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20070412a), that seems to be the intent. This could make for some decent alpha-striking if you're guaranteed a hit since there isn't a cap.

[Vortling]

How much will you be filling the buffing role? If only in a secondary or tertiary capacity you should be able to get by on use magic device with wands and scrolls. If you're the primary buffer for the group you may want to look into the Chameleon (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20041210b) prestige class for more access to buffing spells. This goes extra if your DM doesn't let you select your consumables such as wands and scrolls. The down side being it receives even less skill points than the factotum.

[Draz74]

Great ideas, thanks.

Another question:
Cunning Insight (Ex) let's me add INT (+6) to a damage roll for one point inspiration.
Cunning Strike (Ex) let's me add 1d6 sneak damage to a damage roll for one point inspiration.

Am I missing something? Why would you ever want to use Cunning Strike?

Thanks

As other people have said ... you can only add INT (+6) to damage once per attack, while (RAI, not RAW) you can add +1d6 over and over again.

But yeah, even so, IMO Cunning Strike is never worth it, except maybe if you're assassinating someone with a coup de grace. Especially since, unlike Cunning Insight, you have to declare your use of Cunning Strike (and spend Inspiration Points) before you even know if the attack hits.

EDIT: I guess Cunning Strike could maybe also be worthwhile on a Manyshot. Maybe. I'm still skeptical.

[Talbot]

Cunning Strike is VERY worth it if you have Craven. Otherwise not so much.

[Forged Fury]

Assuming you're able to get your Int high enough to take Font of Knowledge say 10 times (all your feats plus a prestige class like Heir of Siberys or something similar), you could conceivably do 63d6 SA damage around 20th level if you blow all of your IPs on Cunning Strike. I find that amusing.

[Draz74]

Assuming you're able to get your Int high enough to take Font of Knowledge say 10 times (all your feats plus a prestige class like Heir of Siberys or something similar), you could conceivably do 63d6 SA damage around 20th level if you blow all of your IPs on Cunning Strike. I find that amusing.

Amusing, possibly. But I think you'd actually deal more damage by blowing all of those same Inspiration Points on Cunning Surge, attacking ~25 times in one turn.

[Forged Fury]

Amusing, possibly. But I think you'd actually deal more damage by blowing all of those same Inspiration Points on Cunning Surge, attacking ~25 times in one turn.
I think that utility is a bit more debatable than the Cunning Strike interpretation. At least with Cunning Strike, you have one of the main writers on the book saying that they intended the SA damage to stack. With Cunning Surge, you get into semantic arguments about whether "an" means "one".

Honestly though, the whole class doesn't seem to be written with exactness in mind. Exactly how does Opportunistic Piety work? Do you have to touch someone to heal them? Does it provoke AoOs? There's a complete lack of mechanics related to that aspect.

[Draz74]

I think that utility is a bit more debatable than the Cunning Strike interpretation. At least with Cunning Strike, you have one of the main writers on the book saying that they intended the SA damage to stack. With Cunning Surge, you get into semantic arguments about whether "an" means "one".
I think it's less debatable, but even stupider. :smalltongue: But then, I'm not actually advocating either of these tactics. Heck, I don't even advocate touching the Font of Inspiration feat (with a ten-foot pole). Factotums are more fun when you take interesting feats and don't touch these wacky abuses.

But the main point was, Cunning Strike sucks (except for a couple corner cases, or if you're bending the rules to use it with Craven).


Honestly though, the whole class doesn't seem to be written with exactness in mind. Exactly how does Opportunistic Piety work? Do you have to touch someone to heal them? Does it provoke AoOs? There's a complete lack of mechanics related to that aspect.

Sadly true. :smallfrown: Factotum is one of the best-written Classes, from a game design perspective; but it's probably the worst-written Class, from a technical perspective.

[Torvon]

I think it's less debatable, but even stupider. :smalltongue: But then, I'm not actually advocating either of these tactics. Heck, I don't even advocate touching the Font of Inspiration feat (with a ten-foot pole). Factotums are more fun when you take interesting feats and don't touch these wacky abuses.
I second this, I think. Also, I'll try to convince my DM to be allowed to use these buffs on other characters also, not just me. Handing out a standard action now and then to others.

Any cool ideas regarding the intersting feats?

Thanks
Torvon

[Draz74]

Point Blank Shot
Rapid Shot
Manyshot
Knowledge Devotion

Darkstalker? (if you want to be sneaky)
Quick Reconnoiter? (if you want to be an awesome scout)
Obtain Familiar (another way to be a scout)
Hidden Talent (lots of useful options here)
True Believer (for the Raptor Arrow trick I mentioned earlier)
Martial Study (lots of options)

[Torvon]

Thinking about a familiar now. I have the following problem:

(1) "Your caster level equals your level in this character class"

(2) But I can only cast level 3 spells at level 9.

The question: can I still take higher caster level familiars (than spell level 3), if I go for improved familiar?

Thanks again, you guys are awesome :)
Torvon

EDIT: i'm looking for a familiar which can speak, help me with all my knowledge checks and craft checks (best thing would be if it would have hands to manipulate objects). Maybe cast a bit itself. Not a combat familiar.
My caster level should be 8 (level 8 factotum) if I didn't miss anything.

I can imagine roleplaying it, will be plenty of fun. I have something tiny or small in mind, a familiar which talks with a very deep voice. Extremely polite. "I do beg your pardon, Lord Zwibelbald, but I would have a kind suggest to contribute to the discussion, if you let me. It appears to me that ..." ;)
The character will probably be neutral or good.

EDIT2: Familiar has either his own skills, or master's. Now, being a factotum, I plan to speak 13 languages. Are these considered "skills" in this regard (in case the familiar can talk)?

[Rei_Jin]

Caster level is completely divorced from what level spells you can cast. Just because you can cast level 3 spells as a max does not limit you to having a low caster level... if the class says that your caster level is equal to your class level, then if you have 8 Factotum levels, you are a level 8 caster.

[Cog]

Familiar has either his own skills, or master's. Now, being a factotum, I plan to speak 13 languages. Are these considered "skills" in this regard (in case the familiar can talk)?
A familiar can use the master's skill ranks. It still uses its own Int for things like knowledge checks, and while you spend skill points to learn knowledges, those aren't ranks.

[Torvon]

Thank you very much, guys.

The character is finished now, and I have a problem.

The DM doesn't allow bag of holdings or other items with extradimensional storing capacities. My factotum is a scholar, strength 8 ... so I can barely carry anything. Do you have any suggestions how to solve this problem? We will also do some dungeon crawls, so a horse won't do it.

The DM is pretty ... strict, and usually interpretes rules to the disadvantage of players. So I need to find a solution to this problem which is realistic ingame (please don't come up with things like "giant monstrous spider", that wouldn't be plausible for a scholar I think).

To the background: the character is a scholar/archeologist with a pseudodragon familiar, factotum level 8. We're playing in the forgotten realms, in the very north, the character is from the south though (Etheth or something, the DM suggested that since I asked for an "Italian" or "Spanish" region).

Thanks :)
Torvon

[Forged Fury]

Talisman of the Disk from MIC could work.

Edit: I must have been looking at something else, it appears this item is usable at will, so every three hours, you just need to put all the gear on the ground, call up a new one, and keep moving.

[Draz74]

Shapesand, from Sandstorm, is a magic item that can shape itself to duplicate pretty much any mundane item. Problem is, its rules are written so open-ended (much like certain Factotum abilities) that it can be too powerful and useful if you don't apply some common sense to the results.

[Torvon]

Thanks. I might just go for the "mount" spell, lasts 16 hours and that should be enough to carry all my stuff.

I have two other questions:
(1) As far as I see it, the factotum +intelligence to skills doesn't stack with "collector of stories" skill trick, since it is both a competence bonus. It neither stacks with the cool "tome of worldly knowledge" (+5 to all knowledge checks), since it's competence again. That's really really bad, I think. It basically very much nerfs the factotum class ability, since a quite similar effect can be achieved without being factotum.
What are your opinions about this? Did I misread something?

(2) Since the factotum has spell-like abilities: do I need components? (e.g. continual flame costs 50GP to cast)

Thanks
Torvon

[Forged Fury]

(1) <snip> Did I misread something?It appears that way, but I'm not sure exactly to what ability your referring. The Factotum's +Int to skills ability is called Brains over Brawn. It only applies to Strength Checks, Dexterity Checks, and skills modified by Strength or Dexterity. This bonus is apparently untyped. The factotum's other +Int ability is called Cunning Insight, but it only applies to attack rolls, damage rolls, or saving throws. This one is a competence bonus. The factotum does have another ability called Cunning Knowledge that could modify a Knowledge check, but the bonus is equal to the factotum's level and is also untyped.

(2) Since the factotum has spell-like abilities: do I need components? (e.g. continual flame costs 50GP to cast)The factotum class feature pretty clearly states that you have to pay material components as normal and cannot cast spells requiring XP costs (for some reason). It's a hybrid SLA, kind of like Warlock invocations.

[Torvon]

The factotum class feature pretty clearly states that you have to pay material components as normal and cannot cast spells requiring XP costs (for some reason). It's a hybrid SLA, kind of like Warlock invocations.

You are right. I was confused by this description of spell-like abilities in the MM:

Spell-like abilities are magical and work just like spells (though they are not spells and so have no verbal, somatic, material, focus, or XP components)

But Factotutum says that you need components explicitly. Thanks!

[Tibbaerrohwen]

Returning to the build, if you're thinking of going for a knowlege monkey you might want to consider a 1 level dip into Master (Dragonlance Campaign Setting: War of Lances). At first level you could take primary focus Sage, get a +2 to all Knowledges (if I recall correctly) and take the Complemetary Scholar as your Knack, which means you only really need to max one knowldge skill, because you treated as having half those ranks in all otehr knowledges.
It means you can skill monkey more with your other skills point, or get some more skill tricks. Just a thought. Also, 8+Int Skill Points and Rogue BAB; you're not loosing much if you feel like taking additionaly levels, but a 1 level dip is best imo.

EDIT: Sorry, just saw that the build was finished. My bad.

[Torvon]

Returning to the build, if you're thinking of going for a knowlege monkey you might want to consider a 1 level dip into Master (Dragonlance Campaign Setting: War of Lances). At first level you could take primary focus Sage, get a +2 to all Knowledges (if I recall correctly) and take the Complemetary Scholar as your Knack, which means you only really need to max one knowldge skill, because you treated as having half those ranks in all otehr knowledges.
It means you can skill monkey more with your other skills point, or get some more skill tricks. Just a thought. Also, 8+Int Skill Points and Rogue BAB; you're not loosing much if you feel like taking additionaly levels, but a 1 level dip is best imo.

EDIT: Sorry, just saw that the build was finished. My bad.
Thank you for the suggestions. They build might be finished, but there we be level ups :).
Master will probably not be allowed ("treated as having half those ranks in all otehr knowledges" sounds a bit OP), but I'll make sure to check it out.

I consider going Archivist for the next level. Fluff is awesome, and the mechanics work also (apart from WIS 8 which sucks for the spells ;) )