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Vuann
2011-04-21, 04:41 AM
So the Factotum is my favorite class, but since it's from a splat book it doesn't have any specific PrCs or feats other than Font of Inspiration which I find is far too addicting and can overpower a factotum that gets 20+ points. I was brainstorming the other day about ways to fix that problem and came up with a bunch of other ideas. I was very inspired by Hunter Noventa's Factotum ACF's (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75478) and got a few more ideas from Djinn in Tonic's homebrew Chameleon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100597) class.

I really want to create a Factotum PrC that keeps up the general feel of the Factotum but specializes him a bit. It would have to continue to progress the Arcane Dilletante ability(and work with the ACF's), probably the inspiration feature(though that could be the balancing factor) and still count as Factotum levels for use with the cunning knowledge feature. I'm still brainstorming this idea, but here are some feats and general ideas I've come up with thus far. They are probably a bit rough and could use some rewording and renaming, but the general idea is there. My thoughts will be in spoilers after each one.


Feats


Cunning Inspiration

You gain inspiration points based on your intelligence modifier.

When taking this feat you automatically gain a number of inspiration points equal to your intelligence modifier. If your intelligence modifier increases as your character levels then they are added on to this total. Any inspiration points gained by an enhancement or spell bonus dissappear when the equipment is removed or effect has faded.

This feat cannot be used together with Font of Inspiration

Basically this offers a compromise between gaining extra inspiration points without having to take multiple Font of Inspiration feats. You will end up with less overall, but it only costs a single feat and would allow you to actually specialize your factotum. It also balances out the Factotum cheese-ability of having so many points to expend. I'm actually going to use this in a PbP game on this site that has just started.

Cunning Recovery

You can regain inspiration points during an encounter by initiating a concentration check.

As a move action, standard action or full round action you may spend one inspiration point to initiate a concentration check to regain inspiration points. A move action requires a DC check of 20, a standard action requires a DC check of 15 and a full round action requires a DC check of 10. For every point you beat the check by you regain an equal number of inspiration points. These points are available for use immediately. If you fail the check you regain no inspiration points and still lose the point for initiating it. This action does not provoke attacks of opportunity and may be performed as many times per encounter as you wish.

So this is to go along with the first feat. Instead of relying on a ton of points, this would allow you to get by with less and have a way of refreshing your points. It would add a bit more strategy and inspiration point economy to your gameplay. Maybe it shouldn't cost a point to use, though it seemed appropriate. It's risky and takes an action away from you, but the benefit is good if you succeed. This is based off of the adaptive style feat from ToB though it requires you to actually make a decent roll instead of just giving up a single round for guaranteed benefit.

Heroic Muse

You may spend one inspiration point to select a temporary feat during an encounter.

As a swift action you may spend one inspiration point to gain a temporary feat. This ability can only be used during an encounter and is lost when the encounter has ended. You must qualify for this feat just as if you were going to take this as normal for your character. You may only choose one feat at a time, though you may choose to spend another inspiration point and change the feat during your turn.

Similar to the floating feat that a chameleon gets, but less abusable. It costs an inspiration point so it's not free, and only works during combat. No taking passive feats outside of combat to reap the benefits. I called it Heroic Muse since it's also very similar to the Heroics spell. Would work great for Martial Maneuver/Stance and things like power attack and combat expertise.

Greater Heroic Muse

Prerequisite: Heroic Muse

Following the same rules as the Heroic Muse feat you may spend two points instead of one and gain a second feat. You may use the first temporary feat as qualification for the second feat.

Makes this ability stronger, but still keeps it in check by following the same encounter only rules of the first. Would open up opportunities like combat expertise/improved trip or point blank shot/rapid shot, etc.. The beauty is that you can choose what seems like the best options for your current encounter. Factotums are the masters of improv so it just seems fitting.


I also have some ideas for actual abilities that a Factotum PrC may have. The trick with the PrC is to give Factotums something worthy of specializing in, but not so great that it's always worth giving up what they would get if they stayed pure Factotum. Perhaps some of the things above that I listed as feats(like Heroic Muse) might work best as an actual PrC ability that automatically scales with levels in the PrC. You may get Heroic Muse at the 2nd PrC level then gain the second use at level 6 or something. These aren't completely fleshed out so I'll just give a quick description.

Creative Improvisation

Once per encounter you may spend an inspiration point to perform a special ability of another class.

Basically a watered down version of Cunning Brilliance that lasts for only one round. You would choose from a small list of abilities, each one having a different initiation action similar to the ability you are improvising. Some of them can be used like a counters such as evasion. Others could be spell-like abilities, perhaps even a one round sneak attack/skirmish that scaled based on your level. Lots of potential here. As you leveled higher in the PrC you would gain additional uses of the ability. To keep it in check the list would have to be focused and not overly powerful, but useful enough like an ability to increase a save, dodge an attack or perhaps even do something like an abrupt jaunt. Maybe instead of gaining additional uses you simply gain access to a larger list as you gain levels in the PrC.

Improved Cunning Knowledge

You may spend 2 inspiration points to gain a temporary bonus to a skill check for any skill that you have at least one rank in. You may add your class level plus your intelligence modifier to this check. If the skill is already based off of your intelligence modifier you may not stack the bonuses. Instead of once per skill per day, perhaps it could be used once per day for a single skill and it's uses may scale up as you level.

Could be used when you need that epic skill check and can't afford to fail. By limiting uses per day it would be your ace in the hole. It could possibly gain uses as you leveled, though if it was considered to powerful maybe it's only usable once per day max.

Not sure what to call this one, but it'd basically be a freebie that would allow you to take one regular factotum ability while being in the PrC, but would require you to reach the same level with both classes combined. For instance if the PrC opened up at level 6 you may decide to wait until 10 to take it.You may really want to get cunning defense for the dodge bonus, so as your single choice you could still take that at level 16 by counting up your factotum and PrC levels combined. Factotum 8 + Prc 8, etc..

Focused Arcane Dilettante

I don't have a description yet, but I'm working on this. My idea is that by taking the PrC you would get some sort of bonus to this skill and it would be generic so that it would work with the ACF's from Hunter Noventa. I'm thinking it could be as simple as allowing more than one of your highest level spells per day that may scale as you level. That alone is a big power improvement, but it couldn't be unlimited or it'd cause problems no doubt. Like at PrC level 3 you get to use 2 of your highest level spells per day. At level 7 you could grab 3 then maybe that's the limit.

For the Martial Variant that doesn't have that limitation perhaps it could eliminate the need for burning up an inspiration point to execute a maneuver. Or perhaps you could choose more than one stance instead of being limited to a single one as written. Or both.

Balancing this would be tough, but it'd have to be something useful that wouldn't automatically make anyone playing a factotum take the PrC without a second thought. I'd try to shoot for entry as early as level 6 so the decision to enter it would be tough. You may wait until 9 so you don't lose cunning surge then take the PrC. And about cunning surge.. I can't take credit for this but I like the idea. I found it on some random site while looking around the other night and I think it has merit. It simultaneously chokes the cheese-ability out of cunning surge without your DM getting pissed off, but at the same time giving you options so that you can tailor it to your liking.

Cunning Surge (Ex): Starting at 8th level, you learn to push yourself when needed. By spending 1 inspiration point, you can take an extra swift action during your turn; this becomes an extra move action if you spend 2 inspiration points instead, or an extra standard action if you spend 3 inspiration points instead. You can purchase any combination of these three additional actions, but you cannot purchase the same one more than once per round. If you purchase two extra actions for one turn, you become fatigued until the end of the encounter. If you purchase all three additional actions, you become exhausted until the end of the encounter. You cannot use this ability if you are already exhausted.

While you could use this to go supernova, it'd be at a great cost so you'd have to use it wisely. Since you can't go nuts with it, the lack of mass inspiration points via Font of Inspiration points is meaningless.


At any rate that was my brainstorm. I'm looking for opinions on the overall balance of these ideas and feasibility in play. I may take some time this weekend to actually put this together, but I'm still working out some details. I'm really considering slowing down the progression of inspiration points by taking the PrC so that you have to choose wisely. By taking the PrC you get some cool abilities, but the balance is that you won't have 25 inspiration points to work with and would have to play more intelligently. Probably taking advantage of the recovery feat to keep yourself fueled in a long encounter. This way those that like to burn up lots of inspiration points and play a more generic factotum may skip the PrC altogether since they'd lose out on that freedom.

elpollo
2011-04-21, 07:33 AM
Cunning Inspiration

This is worth 3+ (depending on optimisation) Fonts of Inspiration. That's far too good. Inspiration points are fine as is - they are meant to be a limited resource each encounter, and this feat makes that not the case (also, I think people tend to advocate 1 or 3 [I think they were the numbers, but I could be wrong] Fonts of Inspiration as the best choice. Sure, technically you can get more Inspiration Points by taking all your feat choices as Font of Inspiration, but at that point you don't need that many Inspiration Points. This feat is better through and through).



Cunning Recovery

Cunning Knowledge means that 1/day you can use this feat to break even (if first level) or make back way more inspiration points (if higher). Cunning Surge means you can do this in your turn for no penalty. The DCs are too low, the 1 point per point the DC is beaten by is too abusable, and inspiration points should not be a refreshable thing anyway.



Heroic Muse

I think this would be fine without the previous two feats.



Greater Heroic Muse

Again, this is fine.



Creative Improvisation

Does that mean any ability? Only Ex:? What happens if they choose rage, or frenzy (or any ability which lasts for a number of rounds)?



Improved Cunning Knowledge

It's... not really necessary. Cunning Knowledge provides a pretty big boost as is, and this just seems like overkill.



Focused Arcane Dilettante

Factotums are jacks of all trades. They shouldn't be slinging multiple high level spells around per day, and whilst giving them this wouldn't be game breaking in a game with full casters it's still not really appropriate for the class. They are people who've picked up a smattering of magic, not masters of the arcane. Sixth level spells are plenty strong enough.



For the Martial Variant that doesn't have that limitation perhaps it could eliminate the need for burning up an inspiration point to execute a maneuver. Or perhaps you could choose more than one stance instead of being limited to a single one as written. Or both.

Leave manoeuvers for the full initiators and people with Martial Study. Heroic Muse already provides a way to get this whilst needed.



So the Factotum is my favorite class

It shows. These feats seem to be made to get around the limitations of the class, but the limitations are there for a reason. The factotum can do a lot, and do it well, but he shouldn't be chucking around high level spells or manoeuvers, or constantly burning inspiration points to be everywhere at once, without a huge amount of investment. There are classes that front line well. There are classes that cast powerful magic. The factotum is neither of these, and should be neither of these. It definately should not be both of these.

bindin garoth
2011-04-21, 09:49 AM
Perhaps you're looking for a prc like This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10338942&postcount=15)? [/plug] :smallbiggrin:

Vuann
2011-04-21, 01:08 PM
Cunning Knowledge means that 1/day you can use this feat to break even (if first level) or make back way more inspiration points (if higher). Cunning Surge means you can do this in your turn for no penalty. The DCs are too low, the 1 point per point the DC is beaten by is too abusable, and inspiration points should not be a refreshable thing anyway.

I thought that the DC might be too low, it was a number to start out with. The goal would be to limit the total amount of IP's a Factotum gets but have a challenging way to refresh them. Intead of having 25 in reserve maybe you only have 11 or so but in a pinch there's a way to get some of them back.





Does that mean any ability? Only Ex:? What happens if they choose rage, or frenzy (or any ability which lasts for a number of rounds)?

Well I hadn't exactly expanded upon that yet. It was meant to be one round only max to fill in a niche. And highly limited to once per encounter at first.




It's... not really necessary. Cunning Knowledge provides a pretty big boost as is, and this just seems like overkill.

I agree it was one of the weaker ideas I had, just through it out there since it was written down.





Factotums are jacks of all trades. They shouldn't be slinging multiple high level spells around per day, and whilst giving them this wouldn't be game breaking in a game with full casters it's still not really appropriate for the class. They are people who've picked up a smattering of magic, not masters of the arcane. Sixth level spells are plenty strong enough.

This is true, though I thought the idea of any PrC was to change the class to something different, usually more powerful. It wouldn't quite make sense if the PrC had the same class focus, so I figured it would allow them to put a bit more emphasis into the Dilletante part of the class in exchange for losing out on their normal abilites.

Maybe I explained it wrong, but they would not gain any higher spell than normal. They would simply be allowed to cast one extra spell of their highest level than the previous limit of a single one. Then maybe up to 3x max at the end of the PrC. It just lets them cast their highest school of spells more than just once as currently written.




Leave manoeuvers for the full initiators and people with Martial Study. Heroic Muse already provides a way to get this whilst needed.

I was simply expanding on what had already been written in an attempt to include all options in the PrC.




It shows. These feats seem to be made to get around the limitations of the class, but the limitations are there for a reason. The factotum can do a lot, and do it well, but he shouldn't be chucking around high level spells or manoeuvers, or constantly burning inspiration points to be everywhere at once, without a huge amount of investment. There are classes that front line well. There are classes that cast powerful magic. The factotum is neither of these, and should be neither of these. It definately should not be both of these.

I understand and because I like the class I wanted input. However is a high level wizard NOT meant to have higher BAB than a Rogue? Yet they do. Why give a casting class a full BAB progression PrC along with their full spell progression when that should not be their focus?

Factotums are the jacks of all trades.. as a base class. I was thinking it might be cool to be able to focus some part of their abilities in exchange for losing some of the others. Arcane Dilletante seemed the best candidate for this. You highest level of spells does not increase, it only lets you break past the single per day limit of the highest school, and only by 1 or 2 extra at that.

I hadn't gotten there yet, but my intent was going to be to limit inspiration point progression in the PrC. Therefore those taking it would end up losing IP points compared to staying full factotum. The balance would have been an ability to regain some of them, though it wasn't supposed to be a guaranteed thing. I guess my thinking was a Factotum that focused his mind into something would lose a bit of his inspiration in other things, therefore the PrC would have given limited IPs or possibly even none. The refresh power while it may seem pointless, at least would have screwed up his action economy for a round. I didn't put it down, but I would stipulate that it could not have been used during the same round as the cunning surge skill.

Ziegander
2011-04-21, 01:39 PM
Perhaps you're looking for a prc like This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10338942&postcount=15)? [/plug] :smallbiggrin:

Daaang. That's cool. :smallbiggrin:

Jallorn
2011-04-21, 05:51 PM
Heroic Muse

You may spend one inspiration point to select a temporary feat during an encounter.

As a swift action you may spend one inspiration point to gain a temporary feat. This ability can only be used during an encounter and is lost when the encounter has ended. You must qualify for this feat just as if you were going to take this as normal for your character. You may only choose one feat at a time, though you may choose to spend another inspiration point and change the feat during your turn.

Similar to the floating feat that a chameleon gets, but less abusable. It costs an inspiration point so it's not free, and only works during combat. No taking passive feats outside of combat to reap the benefits. I called it Heroic Muse since it's also very similar to the Heroics spell. Would work great for Martial Maneuver/Stance and things like power attack and combat expertise.

Haven't looked at that much else, but in fact it can be used outside of combat, since an encounter doesn't mean combat, just a challenge that must be overcome.

Haven't looked at anything else yet, that just jumped out at me.

Vuann
2011-04-21, 05:57 PM
Haven't looked at that much else, but in fact it can be used outside of combat, since an encounter doesn't mean combat, just a challenge that must be overcome.

Haven't looked at anything else yet, that just jumped out at me.

Yes, I should probably have specified "combat encounter" or else it would be abused. Otherwise you could take skill focus feats anytime you were in a social or skill based encounter.