NetHack in the Playground

[MoonCat]

Does anyone play it? What race, role, gender and alignment do they usually play? Online? If online, what's your online name?

[pendell]

:Waves: I have played for years, and have in fact YAAP'd every class. I don't play online, though. Connection keeps breaking.

I guess my favorite class is wizard because it allows so many different abilities like being able to cast polymorph at will so long as you have the MP for it ... and MP generates every few turns, faster if you've got the right artifact. They also start with a cloak of magic resistance, so that's a major leg up right there.

Doesn't matter that they are squishy in melee combat. I found that, in nethack, if you're in melee as any class against a non-popcorn monster you're doing something wrong. Give me a stack of +5 blessed fireproof elven daggers and I'll walk all over the dungeon.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[MoonCat]

I enjoy doing wizard as well, and alternate wizard/Valkyrie.

[pendell]

Indeed. Do you have a preferred race or challenge?

I prefer dwarves because they have constitution and infravision. The ability to not blindly bump into a swarm of soldier ants, but instead see them coming many spaces away, is not an ability to be sneeze at.

My main challenge is that, if at all possible, I try to convert my character to neutral or lawful alignment if they didn't start out that way. Neutral is my preferred alignment, because I find the whole human sacrifice thing on the chaotic scale not fun. Also, the chaotic artifacts mostly stink.

Lawful, on the other hand, typically has arbitrary rules such as "can't use poison" or "cannot hit a fleeing opponent". The knight class is especially irritating in this regard, because you lose -1 alignment every time you hit an enemy who is fleeing, asleep, blinded, or otherwise discomfited. I don't care for that, because in a typical YAAP I kill about 7000 monsters and with them odd I want every advantage I can et.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[MoonCat]

Elfs for wizards and humans for valkyries. I avoid gnomes and dwarves because then I don't kill them in the Gnomish Mines.

[pendell]

Elfs for wizards and humans for valkyries. I avoid gnomes and dwarves because then I don't kill them in the Gnomish Mines.

What's wrong with that? Being a gnome makes the entire gnomish mines a lot easier. My characters frequently died there until I learned the trick of clearing the main dungeon for a significant distance past the oracle. And picking up an amulet of reflection, if possible.

The gnomes carry little treasure of interest and have a nasty habit of jumping onto polymorph traps or carrying wands of something horrible. Fewer low-level enemies in the mines are all to the good, as far as I'm concerned.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Lord Seth]

I found that, in nethack, if you're in melee as any class against a non-popcorn monster you're doing something wrong.What do you suggest you do if you're playing a Knight, then? Jousting is awesome (once you get your luck up), why would I be doing something "wrong" to melee? Same thing with other classes that are great in melee. I don't get this comment.
Lawful, on the other hand, typically has arbitrary rules such as "can't use poison" or "cannot hit a fleeing opponent".That's just Knights. Pretty sure all other Lawful characters can do that without penalty.
Elfs for wizards and humans for valkyries. I avoid gnomes and dwarves because then I don't kill them in the Gnomish Mines.Why would being a gnome or dwarf not let you kill them in the Gnomish Mines? The only class that gets a penalty for attacking peaceful monsters is Samurai, which has to be human anyway.

Heck, if you're a healer, being a gnome is a blessing because it makes it easier to make it to Minetown for the protection racket.

As for the original comment, my favorite role is Knight. Easy access to a great weapon (Excalibur) that can last you throughout the entire game, the Lance allows you to hit enemies without having to be next to them (great for enemies like floating eyes) and in the later game, can be used for jousting. And Excalibur/Grayswandir+Lance+Ki-Rin=awesomeness. You can also get really high damage with Magic Missile once you get the Magic Mirror of Merlin. Sure, you have the conduct penalties, but they're honestly pretty light and only matter in the really early levels.

[LaZodiac]

I never really understood how to play NetHack. Maybe it's just me, but I wish a lot of these cool indie games had better user interfaces.

[Zigg'rrauglurr]

Yay! Wizard:vaarsuvius: or Knight:miko: here. Never ascended :smallfrown:. Also is the only place where being a monk doesn't stink.

Nice knowing there are other lovers of the spectacular graphics (http://www.bbspot.com/news/2003/02/ati_ascii.html), and incredible intricate possibilities. Greetings NetHackers

[MoonCat]

I've never ascended either, but always have fun with it. LaLa, I could teach you if you were here, but it's harder when you're in Canada.

[shawnhcorey]

I never really understood how to play NetHack. Maybe it's just me, but I wish a lot of these cool indie games had better user interfaces.

NetHack has been ported and forked and is known under other names such as Xnethack, Slash'EM and Vulture's Eye; many with windows interfaces.

The best way to play it is in explorer mode (type 'X') because you can't die (unless you want to). But you score is not kept.

[MoonCat]

I forgot to mention, my player is 3Moon3Cat3 on online NetHack

[LaZodiac]

Well, from what I understand, half of the draw of NetHack is the myriad ways you can die, so what's the fun in that.

Also, thanks for the offer MoonCat, I'll keep it in mind if I ever for some reason find myself down where you are (the location of which I forget).

[Lord Seth]

Oh yeah, I should use this topic as yet another opportunity to plug my NetHack Let's Plays. You can see them here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qIg0HE62D0) and here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qerRVPQ5aA). I think the second of them turned out better; no deaths, plus I was more experienced at the game so my advice is a bit better.

[pendell]

What do you suggest you do if you're playing a Knight, then?


dagger, bow, crossbow, and my once-favorite, the polearm!
The lance can function as a polearm on foot. The knight can reach skilled in polearm, which means they can hit anything in a two-square range, including in an L shape and behind boulders. This allows you to fight from beyond melee range.

Also, the knight gets jump from the beginning of the game, which is also useful for putting distance between yourself and a minotaur.



Jousting is awesome (once you get your luck up), why would I be doing something "wrong" to melee?


IIRC, you're as good a player as I am. I'm glad you've found a method that works for you, but it does not work for me.

IME, you can walk over bad guys in the very early game, and once past the castle with AC -40 and two-weaponing +5 frostbrand and +5 silver saber, there's pretty much nothing in the game that can stop you in melee or out.

But from about the Oracle level down to about the castle level the villains suddenly hit very hard compared to the armor class you can achieve. The result of simply charging around is blundering into a mumak or a leocrotta and being instakilled.

Someone like you can overcome this. But I believe most young players spend forever stuck between levels 6 and 16 precisely because they're too brave. It's far better for those player to take a tourist and learn to be a dishonorable coward, using every trick in the book. Engraving the special "E" word. Cowering bravely behhind the pet you've leveled up to large dog or cat. Taming warhorses with apples. Throwing knives, daggers, using bows, or at a pinch even taking a pickaxe to make a pile of rocks.

In my experience, NO class is great in melee once soldier ants and killer bees start swarming. And no class will survive a minotaur with AC 0.



Same thing with other classes that are great in melee. I don't get this comment.That's just Knights. Pretty sure all other Lawful characters can do that without penalty.


Only knights get the -1 alignment for hitting fleeing monsters. But Samurai are indeed penalized for using poisoned weapons. I forget just how lawful arcaeologists are penalized , but there's a reason I switched to neutral.




As for the original comment, my favorite role is Knight. Easy access to a great weapon (Excalibur) that can last you throughout the entire game,


IIRC, any lawful character can acquire Excalibur fairly easily.



the Lance allows you to hit enemies without having to be next to them (great for enemies like floating eyes)


As can any polearm. I love any class that can use polearms for precisely this reason. They're absolutely marvelous for killing eels in the water without being wrapped around and dragged to a watery death.


Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Blue Ghost]

I generally play as a Valkyrie. Easiest class by far, I think, though Samurai comes pretty close. Never ascended, but did once get to the Astral Plane as a Samurai. Greatly underestimated its difficulty, and died as a result of not being prepared / not paying attention.

[Juggling Goth]

I've been playing as Valerie the neutral human Valkyrie for a few years. I like a class that lets me wade in and hit stuff.

Many deaths, no ascensions.

[Blue Ghost]

I've been playing as Valerie the neutral human Valkyrie for a few years. I like a class that lets me wade in and hit stuff.

Many deaths, no ascensions.

Neutral? That would be significantly harder than a Lawful valkyrie, due to not being able to get Excalibur, wouldn't it?

[Trekkin]

I alternate wizard/healer, and am usually a gnome. No ascensions yet, but I only get to play for a few minutes a week and I got as far as Gehennom last time so with any luck I'll actually have an ascension run to my credit soon.

[iyaerP]

I have yet to ever get past the first town. The one time I ever got as far as the town and some monster (don't even remember WHAT) kills me IN town.

I am usually killed in the gnomish mines by some invisible gnome lord with a wand of bull****. I usually play as an archeologist, a valkyrie, or a barbarian.

[shawnhcorey]

Make yourself a gnome or a dwarf. Then you won't get attacked. They don't attack their own kind.

[Lord Seth]

The lance can function as a polearm on foot. The knight can reach skilled in polearm, which means they can hit anything in a two-square range, including in an L shape and behind boulders. This allows you to fight from beyond melee range.I don't think polearms can be used to attack things behind boulders, or at least lances can't (but I doubt the other polearms would be different). But Knights can get Expert in lance rather than just Skilled, and start out with Basic skill in it. And of course jousting. Jousting doesn't really pay off until later in the game (until I get my luck up and have a luckstone, I'm too nervous about it breaking during a joust to use it directly) but it's a major leg up on the other polearms, at least as a Knight.

Still, it's great to be able to tackle floating eyes from the start due to the lance; getting telepathy from those guys is extremely useful.


Also, the knight gets jump from the beginning of the game, which is also useful for putting distance between yourself and a minotaur.Not really. For the most part you're only going to see minotaurs in maze levels, where the L-jump is all but useless.


IME, you can walk over bad guys in the very early game, and once past the castle with AC -40 and two-weaponing +5 frostbrand and +5 silver saber, there's pretty much nothing in the game that can stop you in melee or out.Only +5? :smallconfused: Why not go up to +7? Especially considering both of those can be used to engrave, so if you blessed enchant weapon at +5 and only get +6, you can engrave an X and try again for +7.

Frost Brand and Silver Saber aren't my ideal choice though. I'd prefer Grayswandir and the Lance. I pick the Lance because you've still got a 60% chance of jousting (which is good) and when necessary, you can switch to only using the Lance for 80% chance, which is really useful when killing the demon lords. As for Grayswandir, I like it because Grayswandir is...uh...Grayswandir. I'd pick it over Frost Brand for a few reasons. First, it has the bonus silver damage, it gets double damage on EVERYTHING (Frost Brand will give you double on most enemies, but not all), and it also won't destroy potions you might want from enemies. It's true that Knights can get Expert in long swords but not sabers, but that doesn't matter if you're twoweaponing.

The second reason is that Grayswandir is easier to get. A Knight has a 25% chance of getting it first sacrifice. Frost Brand requires at least two sacrifices and has lower odds. I guess you can wish for it, but as I already have Excalibur and have only one guaranteed wish left, I'd rather get the Sceptre of Might for its toggleable conflict and magic resistance. If I want to risk it and go for another artifact with only the 2/3 odds, I'd rather get the Mitre of Holiness because of it making spellcasting a lot easier. Excalibur isn't as good as Grayswandir or Frost Brand, but its automatic searching is convenient and it is strong enough to take you to the end of the game.


But from about the Oracle level down to about the castle level the villains suddenly hit very hard compared to the armor class you can achieve. The result of simply charging around is blundering into a mumak or a leocrotta and being instakilled.

Someone like you can overcome this. But I believe most young players spend forever stuck between levels 6 and 16 precisely because they're too brave. It's far better for those player to take a tourist and learn to be a dishonorable coward, using every trick in the book. Engraving the special "E" word. Cowering bravely behhind the pet you've leveled up to large dog or cat. Taming warhorses with apples. Throwing knives, daggers, using bows, or at a pinch even taking a pickaxe to make a pile of rocks.I think I misunderstood you. Here's what you stated:
I found that, in nethack, if you're in melee as any class against a non-popcorn monster you're doing something wrong.I took that to mean that you were saying "avoid melee at all costs" which is pretty absurd advice, I think. But based on your response it seems you were just trying to say not to rely entirely on melee damage, which I will certainly agree with.


In my experience, NO class is great in melee once soldier ants and killer bees start swarming.Actually, I've found soldier ants pretty easy if you're in a class with decent melee, even at the lower levels. The biggest threat they pose under those circumstances is the poison, but if you have poison resistance you're golden. As for killer bees, they're pretty much cake as long as you have poison resistance and don't let them completely surround you.


And no class will survive a minotaur with AC 0.I haven't personally tested out whether it is possible, but yeah, you don't want to be going up against a minotaur in melee when your AC is that high unless you have killer melee damage or extremely high health.


Only knights get the -1 alignment for hitting fleeing monsters. But Samurai are indeed penalized for using poisoned weapons. I forget just how lawful arcaeologists are penalized , but there's a reason I switched to neutral.I got Samurai and Knights mixed up there, sorry, Knights get no penalty for poison weapons. Archeologists get harsher punishments for digging up graves if they're Lawful, and some statues are "historically significant" and they get penalties for breaking those. Neither of those are really common enough occurrences for it to really matter much--after the earliest levels you build up enough through time for any losses to be insignificant.


As can any polearm. I love any class that can use polearms for precisely this reason. They're absolutely marvelous for killing eels in the water without being wrapped around and dragged to a watery death.It's true the other polearms have the ability to attack from afar, but they can't joust and the Lance starts off at Basic ability from the start.

I've actually found polearms/lances for killing eels to be irritating. Without extrinsic ESP you have to blind yourself to see them, but you can't hit them while blinded! I just use a Mirror to scare them off if they wrap themselves around me. I honestly think the shock attack of an electric eel is more troublesome than the grab attack; the latter can be easily defeated by the Mirror, but the electric attack can destroy wands or rings.

[pendell]

I don't think polearms can be used to attack things behind boulders, or at least lances can't (but I doubt the other polearms would be different).


It's been awhile since I've played, but IIRC they can indeed. I think you need to be able to detect the thing, though, as with a ring of warning.



But Knights can get Expert in lance rather than just Skilled, and start out with Basic skill in it. And of course jousting. Jousting doesn't really pay off until later in the game (until I get my luck up and have a luckstone, I'm too nervous about it breaking during a joust to use it directly) but it's a major leg up on the other polearms, at least as a Knight.


Which is probably why I've never done much with jousting. It's deuced hard to keep a herbivorous mount alive in the maze. It's much easier to simply abandon the old mount on a previous level and let it go feral, then tame a new one with a single fruit.

By the time I can ride carnivorous mounts, my character is already so overpowered he can kill most things in a few hits. So from my point of view jousting doesn't really become useful until it's irrelevant.



Still, it's great to be able to tackle floating eyes from the start due to the lance; getting telepathy from those guys is extremely useful.


No argument. Still, at 100 weight units, the lance is a heavy ranged weapon. I tend not to keep them once I've found another polearm that does the same job but is lighter weight, such as a spetum. I can't joust, but I've never really gotten the hang of jousting. That's a flaw in my gameplay.



Not really. For the most part you're only going to see minotaurs in maze levels, where the L-jump is all but useless.


It was an example monster. There are plenty of other slow but hard-hitting creatures in the mid-levels.



Only +5? :smallconfused: Why not go up to +7? Especially considering both of those can be used to engrave, so if you blessed enchant weapon at +5 and only get +6, you can engrave an X and try again for +7.


IIRC, there is a remote but nonetheless nonzero probability that your weapon will evaporate if it is enchanted beyond +5. It is a vanishingly small probability at the +6/+7 level, which is why most players enchant to that level. From my perspective, I can kill just about anything in a few hits at +5 -- the additional +1 or +2 doesn't, to my mind, justify either the risk or the cost in magic marker charges.



Frost Brand and Silver Saber aren't my ideal choice though.
.

I agree. They were simply examples, not an ideal combination. My point is a heavily enchanted artifact weapon #twoweaponed with a heavily enchanted other weapon is going to typically blow through pretty much anything at that stage of the game.



I'd prefer Grayswandir and the Lance.


Possibly you're a better player than I am. As I said , I never got the hang of jousting, and if you're not going to joust there are other polearms that do the same job for less weight.



which is really useful when killing the demon lords.


To each their own. My strategy for all demon lords save Juiblex is the Rubber Chicken. Or "E" engraved on the upstairs square, which I stand on twoweaponing somethhing horrible like Grayswandir and silver saber.



As for Grayswandir, I like it because Grayswandir is...uh...Grayswandir.


No argument. It's the single best artifact in the game, IMO, bar none.



It's true that Knights can get Expert in long swords but not sabers, but that doesn't matter if you're twoweaponing.


Indeed. I don't really care about Expert skill, as it costs an additional 3? 4? skill points and doesn't give you much that skilled doesn't. I only use it when I'm maxing a magic skill or dagger, when expert in dagger + racial bonus can allow me to throw up to 4 daggers at a time. When each one is enchanted to +5, you're in for some serious hurt.

For the less experience reading this, enchant weapon can bless an entire stack of daggers at once, provided they are all theh same enchantment level and cursed status.




I think I misunderstood you. Here's what you stated:I took that to mean that you were saying "avoid melee at all costs" which is pretty absurd advice, I think. But based on your response it seems you were just trying to say not to rely entirely on melee damage, which I will certainly agree with.


I was exaggerating to prove a point. Melee is a fun part of the game, and the melee-oriented classes are there for a reason. I think you and I agree that melee should NOT be avoided at all costs -- it's neither your playing style nor mine.

Be that as it may, the advice to utterly avoid melee combat is not completely absurd. There is such a thing as a pacifist ascension, in which the character never hits with a wielded weapon even once. This is usually accomplished by developing some method of taming monsters and using them as escorts to do the fighting. It requires a level of skill I have not attained, and have no interest in doing. But it has been done.

If a player keeps getting killed in melee combat halfway through the game, I would advise the player to try a game or two using ranged weapons and pets/escorts only, or even trying to be a pure pacifist for awhile. The skills may just keep them alive when they suddenly switch back to a melee class. I knew it took me forever to ascend a wizard. Then I shifted to Valkyrie and ascended first try.



Actually, I've found soldier ants pretty easy if you're in a class with decent melee, even at the lower levels. The biggest threat they pose under those circumstances is the poison, but if you have poison resistance you're golden. As for killer bees, they're pretty much cake as long as you have poison resistance and don't let them completely surround you.


Whereas if you do NOT have poison resistance they are incredibly dangerous. They have instakill capability, they travel in swarms and they are faster than you. It's a good time to learn what "E" is for, or using a scroll of teleport or a wand of digging to go through the floor. The scroll of teleport is not one of the most common scrolls in the dungeon for no reason.



I haven't personally tested out whether it is possible, but yeah, you don't want to be going up against a minotaur in melee when your AC is that high unless you have killer melee damage or extremely high health.


Agree.



I've actually found polearms/lances for killing eels to be irritating. Without extrinsic ESP you have to blind yourself to see them, but you can't hit them while blinded!


Not so; IIRC a ring of warning of intrinsic warning will allow you to detect them as question marks, which you can hit just fine.



I just use a Mirror to scare them off if they wrap themselves around me. I honestly think the shock attack of an electric eel is more troublesome than the grab attack; the latter can be easily defeated by the Mirror, but the electric attack can destroy wands or rings.

Hmmm .. never used a mirror. Does that work with a regular mirror also? Regardless, my favorite for dealing with eels is magic missile from a distance. You don't need to see eels to hit them wit MM, and it bounces off walls nicely to do even more damage. I imagine if you've got the magic mirror and are doubling your damage there too, we're talking some serious eel hurt.

Respectfully,


Brian P.

[Lord Seth]

It's been awhile since I've played, but IIRC they can indeed. I think you need to be able to detect the thing, though, as with a ring of warning.I don't think you can, but I'm not sure if I tested it with a ring of warning. I can't actually remember exactly what I did test it with, but I know it was something that allowed you to see what it was there; maybe extrinsic telepathy? Man, I should test again.


Which is probably why I've never done much with jousting. It's deuced hard to keep a herbivorous mount alive in the maze. It's much easier to simply abandon the old mount on a previous level and let it go feral, then tame a new one with a single fruit.

By the time I can ride carnivorous mounts, my character is already so overpowered he can kill most things in a few hits. So from my point of view jousting doesn't really become useful until it's irrelevant.I don't like carnivorous or herbivorous mounts much actually. Ki-Rins are the way to go, I always wish for a blessed figurine of one if I'm playing a Knight once I get the wand of wishing in the castle. Those things are fantastic.


IIRC, there is a remote but nonetheless nonzero probability that your weapon will evaporate if it is enchanted beyond +5. It is a vanishingly small probability at the +6/+7 level, which is why most players enchant to that level. From my perspective, I can kill just about anything in a few hits at +5 -- the additional +1 or +2 doesn't, to my mind, justify either the risk or the cost in magic marker charges.A quick look on WikiHack doesn't say anything about it destroying weapons if it's at +5. If it's at above +5, then enchanting it has a 2/3 chance of being destroyed, however.


Possibly you're a better player than I am. As I said , I never got the hang of jousting, and if you're not going to joust there are other polearms that do the same job for less weight.There doesn't seem much to get the "hang of" in jousting, you just wield the Lance and it's done automatically. As long as you make sure you get your luck up beforehand (each joust has a chance of breaking the lance, but high luck will drastically decrease that chance) you're pretty much fine.


To each their own. My strategy for all demon lords save Juiblex is the Rubber Chicken. Or "E" engraved on the upstairs square, which I stand on twoweaponing somethhing horrible like Grayswandir and silver saber.I'm not a fan of using cockatrices, too risky for me. Elbereth and upstairs square is good, but their levels are no-teleport so you have to resort to things like digging down, figuring out where the stairs are, and then teleporting there.


No argument. It's the single best artifact in the game, IMO, bar none.I think it's the best artifact weapon (well, for those who can get Basic or better in sabers), but I think the best artifact is the Eye of the Aethiopica.


Indeed. I don't really care about Expert skill, as it costs an additional 3? 4? skill points and doesn't give you much that skilled doesn't. I only use it when I'm maxing a magic skill or dagger, when expert in dagger + racial bonus can allow me to throw up to 4 daggers at a time. When each one is enchanted to +5, you're in for some serious hurt.I actually do like Expert. Now if you're two-weaponing at less-than-Expert level, obviously it won't be that necessary, but otherwise I rather like it. It's worth it for the lance for the 80% jousting even if you only use it occasionally, and I'd definitely go with it for classes that can't twoweapon in the first place.


Be that as it may, the advice to utterly avoid melee combat is not completely absurd. There is such a thing as a pacifist ascension, in which the character never hits with a wielded weapon even once. This is usually accomplished by developing some method of taming monsters and using them as escorts to do the fighting. It requires a level of skill I have not attained, and have no interest in doing. But it has been done.Oh come on, I was obviously referring to general gameplay and not self-imposed challenges.

You seem to be getting your conducts mixed up though. The pacifist ascension means never killing anything; killing things via melee or from a distance will disqualify you, though you technically can attack as much as you want as long as you don't kill anything while doing so. Never hitting with a wielded weapon is a separate conduct, the weaponless conduct. In that, you can kill via melee as long as you're not wielding a weapon while doing it. That's actually a cinch for a Monk, as there are barely any weapons worth wielding for them.


Whereas if you do NOT have poison resistance they are incredibly dangerous. They have instakill capability, they travel in swarms and they are faster than you. It's a good time to learn what "E" is for, or using a scroll of teleport or a wand of digging to go through the floor. The scroll of teleport is not one of the most common scrolls in the dungeon for no reason.Well my point was that you said that no class can melee them early on in the game, but I pointed out that some classes that have a decent melee capability can do so early in the game as long as they have poison resistance at that point. Heck, a Barbarian is able to take on soldier ants and killer bees quite early due to their innate poison resistance.


Not so; IIRC a ring of warning of intrinsic warning will allow you to detect them as question marks, which you can hit just fine.True, but a lot of times I don't have a ring of warning when I encounter them. By the time I do have a ring of warning, I've usually either genocided them or can kill them so quickly it doesn't matter.


Hmmm .. never used a mirror. Does that work with a regular mirror also? Regardless, my favorite for dealing with eels is magic missile from a distance. You don't need to see eels to hit them wit MM, and it bounces off walls nicely to do even more damage. I imagine if you've got the magic mirror and are doubling your damage there too, we're talking some serious eel hurt.Applying a mirror of any kind in a monster's direction will scare it. So if an eel or another sea monster wraps itself around you, you just have to apply the mirror in their direction and they'll release you. No need for the Magic Mirror of Merlin, any class that has a mirror can do it.

[IthilanorStPete]

Yay Nethack! I actually have a game open right now; a dwarven valkyrie. Just got Excalibur :smallbiggrin: , and am now heading down into the mines.

EDIT: Went down to Minetown. Found a floating eye, killed it, ate the corpse. I've picked up some armor from a dwarf, a couple useful tools, and am now feeling generally good about myself!

For skills and weapons, I assume I should just pump longsword and use Excalibur for right now?

[Shishnarfne]

Yay Nethack! I actually have a game open right now; a dwarven valkyrie. Just got Excalibur :smallbiggrin: , and am now heading down into the mines.

EDIT: Went down to Minetown. Found a floating eye, killed it, ate the corpse. I've picked up some armor from a dwarf, a couple useful tools, and am now feeling generally good about myself!

For skills and weapons, I assume I should just pump longsword and use Excalibur for right now?

Sounds like you're ready to hit up Sokoban (assuming as a dwarf, that you went to Minetown earlier). Given auto-searching and level-drain resistance, there's not much reason to look for a better weapon. Scrolls of Enchant Weapon that are not cursed are a good idea, of course.

I've been pushing to improve myself, personally, and after over 2 dozen dead valkyries, I have one that's cleared the quest, and is, I think, well on the path towards success.

Letting the computer randomly pick race/alignment lends a little variety for me, so this one is neutral. Which would mean Mjollnir instead of Excalibur. If I hadn't found a few sets of bones (one with Excalibur) from my failed runs (playing on my own machine).

Had a scary moment at the start of the Medusa level: I got the version with the Titan in the starting room. After leaving the level, I came back later and the room was FULL of monsters. Luckily, I had a wand of fire, and most of them respected the "E-word", so that allowed me to survive. I think that all of those dragons breathing at me and my amulet of reflection helped thin the crowd.

If I succeed, I'll try to put in a post here. (Debating trying to get Vorpal Blade myself by getting crowned. Mostly so it doesn't show up on the Astral. Partly for Jabberwocks.)

Edit: Favorite moment with a mirror was the first time I got to Medusa. At least I remembered to blindfold myself.

[Lord Seth]

An enemy just dropped a silver saber in Orcus Town. I had some enchant weapon scrolls, so now I'm an Archeologist twoweaponing a +7 Grayswandir and a +6 silver saber. Life is good.

[Blue Ghost]

What GUI do you guys use? I always use tile. I feel like such a loser, but the ASCII interface hurts my eyes...

[IthilanorStPete]

Sounds like you're ready to hit up Sokoban (assuming as a dwarf, that you went to Minetown earlier). Given auto-searching and level-drain resistance, there's not much reason to look for a better weapon. Scrolls of Enchant Weapon that are not cursed are a good idea, of course.

Well, I just finished Sokoban, and got the amulet of reflection. Back to the Dungeons of Doom for now!

EDIT: And I tried to eat a black dragon corpse while too full, and accidentally hit "n" instead of "y" when it asked me if I wanted to stop eating (I thought it was asking if I wanted to keep eating, for some reason...), and choked to death. Ah well, YASD, live and learn...I'm feeling confident in my ability to get a character through the early game, now, which is good.

[Lord Seth]

What GUI do you guys use? I always use tile. I feel like such a loser, but the ASCII interface hurts my eyes...I use tile. I think it's much more aesthetically pleasing than ASCII...plus it lets me use the directional pad to move around, which is kind of important when I play on a laptop.

[IthilanorStPete]

And I tried to eat a black dragon corpse while too full, and accidentally hit "n" instead of "y" when it asked me if I wanted to stop eating (I thought it was asking if I wanted to keep eating, for some reason...), and choked to death. Ah well, YASD, live and learn...I'm feeling confident in my ability to get a character through the early game, now, which is certainly a milestone for me!

[Lord Seth]

YAAD for me, I just ascended my Archeologist! As always I played "Metal Overlord" in the background while going through the End Game...really, almost all of the lyrics there actually apply to the situation at the end of the game if you think about it (e.g. "trying to take my energy" refers to the Amulet of Yendor's sapping of your energy...really, look at the lyrics, you can find a parallel in almost all of them, that's why I use it)

About time, also, I started playing that game months ago, but sorta put it on hiatus for a while and only finally got around to finishing it now. The earlier talk of pacifism has put me in the mood for trying for that conduct...wish me luck, I'm going to need it.

[Lord Seth]

...and there goes my pacifist run. After an amazing start (-11 AC, djinni pet) I accidentally killed a lichen.

Ah well, I think I'll go through the rest of it as if it's a pacifist run, it'll give me experience for another one.

[MoonCat]

ASCII, with a number pad and everything. I personally can't stand any other graphics, but I get some people might be better adjusted to other stuff (I ca't play Portal without getting dizzy)

[pendell]

What GUI do you guys use? I always use tile. I feel like such a loser, but the ASCII interface hurts my eyes...

Tile all the way. I played ASCII for years, but found I simply preferred pictures.

For awhile there I was in the process of making an OOTS-themed tileset, but I found that I couldn't use Rich's artwork for such a project without violating copyright, and I lacked the motivation to make my own OOTS-style tiles. So I abandoned the idea.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Top_Hat]

I prefer the Qt tiles interface because it allows diagonal movement with the arrow keys. In fact I made a Linux partition on my windows laptop for the sole reason that it lets me use the NetHack interface I want. :smallbiggrin:

As for the OP I am currently attempting a Healer after my previous one fell down a pit in Gehennom with a full ascension kit with a 'c' corpse wielded. sigh.

[Shishnarfne]

Ascended a neutral human valkyrie early this morning. I decided to run valkyries with names starting alphabetically until I ascended one. "Ysabela" shows just how many tries it took me. For comparision, only two others had made it to the quest (I blame the lava for the other two deaths), and I lost one more to a water troll on the Medusa level, and one to a Minotaur.


Gehennom is a lot more annoying on the way out. Maybe if you've been there more often, that "maze of twisty passages, all alike" gets boring sooner.
Had to kill that aggravating wizard 8 times, too.

IthilanorStPete: It sounds like, if you made it to black dragon corpses, that you are well on the right path. I suspect that you're not far removed from where I am, skillwise.

[Blue Ghost]

Got killed when the wizard stole my Orb of Fate. Should have kept it in the bag after obtaining the Amulet, eh?
When I go into Gehennom, I generally dig a straight path from the upstair to the downstair each level, so I don't have to run all the way when I come back up, with the wizard on my back.

[Lord Seth]

As for the OP I am currently attempting a Healer after my previous one fell down a pit in Gehennom with a full ascension kit with a 'c' corpse wielded. sigh.This is why I don't use cockatrice corpses as weapons. Too risky. The Staff of Aesculapius suits me just fine as a Healer.
Got killed when the wizard stole my Orb of Fate. Should have kept it in the bag after obtaining the Amulet, eh?I don't see how that would've helped. If the issue is that you lost the half physical/spell damage, I'm pretty sure putting it in a bag removes that. If the issue is that the Wizard has the Orb of Fate and it gives him the half damage (actually I'm not sure if it does or not, but let's assume it does), what are you doing trying to kill him via damage anyway? Use a wand of death.


When I go into Gehennom, I generally dig a straight path from the upstair to the downstair each level, so I don't have to run all the way when I come back up, with the wizard on my back.I'm confused, how would digging holes aid you in coming up?

[Gadora]

I'm confused, how would digging holes aid you in coming up?

I'm pretty sure he's talking about digging a path through the mazes' walls, not digging holes in the floor.

[pendell]

This is why I don't use cockatrice corpses as weapons. Too risky.


I almost never use cockatrice corpses unless I'm fighting Orcus or
the astral level at the end. My plan is as follows:
1) Clear a path to the enemy target. Leave the target asleep.
2) Go up several levels until I find a live cockatrice.
3) Kill it and stuff it in the bag of holding.
4) Go down to the target level. Wear * of levitation so I don't fall in a pit or something.
4) Go down to face off with the villain. Use a wand of digging to blast through his wall, wield the cockatrice corpse, and turn him to stone. Then the cockatrice corpse goes back in the bag. Then force bolt or wand of striking to shatter the statue into a bazillion rocks. This also gives me whatever the target is carrying.

I agree that the cockatrice corpse is to dangerous to use as a standard weapon. But with appropriate precautions, such as a ring of levitation, it can be made useful in very special situation.

That's why I always keep a wish just for a cockatrice corpse if I really, really need one. So if I face off with Demogorgon, I can use a wand of fire to burn "E" in one turn, wish a cockatrice corpse up in turn 2, kill him in turn 3.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Blue Ghost]

Doesn't the corpse rot before you can make use of it though?

[Lord Seth]

That's why I always keep a wish just for a cockatrice corpse if I really, really need one. So if I face off with Demogorgon, I can use a wand of fire to burn "E" in one turn, wish a cockatrice corpse up in turn 2, kill him in turn 3.Actually, wishing for a partly eaten chickatrice corpse is better because it's lighter.

[IthilanorStPete]

So I'm at kind of an impasse. been playing a lawful dwarf Valkyrie like I have been for a while; this is my best run yet, and I've gotten down to the Castle and beaten everything in it. My equipment right now, notably:
- +3 GDSM (obtained off an early wish, although I probably should have gone with SDSM)
- an amulet of reflection.
- Excalibur. I currently have the +3 small shield Valkyries start with, but I'm presumably going to twoweapon - I found a silver spear in the Castle.
- boots of speed
- ring of levitation
- gauntlets of power
- lots of intrinsic resistances and what not, though not invisibility, teleportitis, or teleport control.

I found the wand of wishing in the castle, with 1 charge. I used that to wish for 2 blessed scrolls of charging, then recharged it, then wished for an uncursed magic marker. (Yes, I know I should have done that first, and not spent a wish on the charging scrolls. Yet Another Newbie Mistake) So right now...I've got 3 wishes left, with 2 charges left + wresting one. What should I wish for?

EDIT: Also, I should note that I have silver dragon scales, courtesty of a dragon in the Castle. I've contemplated switching over to SDSM, wishing for the Scepter of Might for my magic resistance + conflict, and wishing for an amulet of life saving.
Also, I need to get a can of grease. I'd rather not wish for one, but I haven't found one so far...and I've already had one mishap with water that's rusted my stuff and wiped all my scrolls clean. >.<

[Lord Seth]

Do you have a bag of holding yet? If not, wishing for a blessed greased bag of holding is a must. (just be sure not to carry around wands of cancellation, there's always the risk you'll accidentally put one in it) It being greased would also protect everything in it from water.

Also, have you found any scrolls of genocide yet? If you've identified some, a better way to go about getting silver dragon scale mail is to wish for a magic marker, then use that to write a scroll of genocide on a cursed blank scroll. Then kill the silver dragons that appear--you're almost certain to get silver dragon scales that way, plus you'll have the extra usages of the magic marker!

[IthilanorStPete]

Yeah, I have a blessed (but not greased) bag of holding, courtesy of Sokoban. I've identified scrolls of genocide; I was able to get a blessed scroll to wipe out all liches, and then a genocide from a throne that I used on disenchanters, IIRC.
Also, as I edited into my post, I already have silver dragon scales. :smallsmile: And I wished for a magic marker already; I just meant that it was a mistake to spend a wish on the charging scrolls when I could've just written them.

Incidentally, is twoweaponing Excalibur and a silver spear a decent plan? I was reading up on Wikihack; it seems like a katana would be ideal, but I haven't found one...and silver spear/saber seems like the next best thing, and I've got a silver spear from one of the Castle supply rooms.

[RS14]

Yeah, I have a blessed (but not greased) bag of holding, courtesy of Sokoban. I've identified scrolls of genocide; I was able to get a blessed scroll to wipe out all liches, and then a genocide from a throne that I used on disenchanters, IIRC.
Also, as I edited into my post, I already have silver dragon scales. :smallsmile: And I wished for a magic marker already; I just meant that it was a mistake to spend a wish on the charging scrolls when I could've just written them.

Incidentally, is twoweaponing Excalibur and a silver spear a decent plan? I was reading up on Wikihack; it seems like a katana would be ideal, but I haven't found one...and silver spear/saber seems like the next best thing, and I've got a silver spear from one of the Castle supply rooms.

The silver spear is unorthodox (I didn't realize you could two-weapon them), but I don't see anything wrong with it mechanically.

Obvious things you will want are conflict and free action. Don't forget there is a guaranteed AoLS in Vlad's tower; you're unlikely to die between the Castle and there, so I wouldn't personally wish for one.

How many artifacts have been generated?

Grease is also IMHO nonessential. What rusted in the previous accident? Gauntlets? Helmet? That's at most 1-3 AC you can potentially lose to rust; better to invest in a little bit more enchantment. Besides, there are other ways to rustproof that don't involve wishing for grease.

As for scrolls and potions, they don't generally blank in water if in a bag; if not, grease wouldn't have protected them anyway. What very valuable scrolls do you run around with (rather than using immediately)? It's a bigger deal for casters; otherwise, ?oTaming and ?oCharging are the only things that seem likely to be affected in that way.

With mindflayers and ;, just be careful and don't get in melee range. Either genociding ; or getting an oilskin cloak might be prudent, but neither is essential.

I also believe that while some of these things are nice, the extra AC that comes with wishing for a second magic marker is superior to e.g. greased gear.

What is your ranged weapon?

[IthilanorStPete]

The silver spear is unorthodox (I didn't realize you could two-weapon them), but I don't see anything wrong with it mechanically.

Yeah, it's definitely an odd image! From what I read, the increased level of skill Valkyries can get with spears outweighs the disadvantage of spears compared to sabers.


Obvious things you will want are conflict and free action. Don't forget there is a guaranteed AoLS in Vlad's tower; you're unlikely to die between the Castle and there, so I wouldn't personally wish for one.

Gotcha.


How many artifacts have been generated?

Let's see...Excalibur is the only one I can think of.


Grease is also IMHO nonessential. What rusted in the previous accident? Gauntlets? Helmet? That's at most 1-3 AC you can potentially lose to rust; better to invest in a little bit more enchantment. Besides, there are other ways to rustproof that don't involve wishing for grease.

My small shield is very burnt, my gauntlets of power are very rusty, my orcish helm (wow I need something better there) is very rusty...a couple utility things are also very rusty. (wand of teleportation, tinning kit, lockpick, a couple of random other wands)


As for scrolls and potions, they don't generally blank in water if in a bag; if not, grease wouldn't have protected them anyway. What very valuable scrolls do you run around with (rather than using immediately)? It's a bigger deal for casters; otherwise, ?oTaming and ?oCharging are the only things that seem likely to be affected in that way.

Nothing too valuable; it was just some utility things like enchant weapon, magic mapping.


With mindflayers and ;, just be careful and don't get in melee range. Either genociding ; or getting an oilskin cloak might be prudent, but neither is essential.

I was definitely thinking about genociding mind flayers and sea monsters, writing a couple of genocide scrolls with my magic marker.


I also believe that while some of these things are nice, the extra AC that comes with wishing for a second magic marker is superior to e.g. greased gear.

What do you mean? Just wishing for a second so I can write more scrolls of enchant armor?


What is your ranged weapon?

I've got a wand of fire and a wand of cold...that's about it.

[RS14]

My small shield is very burnt, my gauntlets of power are very rusty, my orcish helm (wow I need something better there) is very rusty...a couple utility things are also very rusty. (wand of teleportation, tinning kit, lockpick, a couple of random other wands)

The thing is, this just doesn't matter all that much. A greased +5 orcish helm gives 6 AC. A very rusted +5 orcish helm gives 5 AC, because erosion will never cause the base AC of an item to become negative. Grease would at most protect 2 AC worth of damage with your current kit.
Grease won't protect the small shield; that needs fireproofing, if you care.
The utility items are not affected at all by rust.

All in all, it's not that grease isn't useful, it's just not very useful.



What do you mean? Just wishing for a second so I can write more scrolls of enchant armor?

Yeah, if you use up your magic marker and could still enchant your armor further, a bit more AC always helps, particularly for melee fighters. It's a low-priority wish.




I've got a wand of fire and a wand of cold...that's about it.

Honestly, an ascension ready Valkyrie can probably smash through 99% of the creatures in the game in melee. You do probably want to genocide mind-flayers (not 'h') if you go this route, but it's viable. The riders are an issue, as Death and Pestilence are rather ugly in melee, resist stoning, and Death is immune to wands of death. Either be read to melee them, have a good ranged weapon, or make sure to have attack wands.

Daggers and Mjolnir are good candidates. Beware of Mjolnir's mishap chances, should you go that route.

A wand of death is an ok end-game wish, if you haven't found one by that point. If you're well prepared, I would hold off until you've taken the wizard in melee and gotten a feel of how much trouble he'll give you; if you can take him easily in melee, then no need.

[Lord Seth]

Yeah, I have a blessed (but not greased) bag of holding, courtesy of Sokoban. I've identified scrolls of genocide; I was able to get a blessed scroll to wipe out all liches, and then a genocide from a throne that I used on disenchanters, IIRC.
Also, as I edited into my post, I already have silver dragon scales. :smallsmile: And I wished for a magic marker already; I just meant that it was a mistake to spend a wish on the charging scrolls when I could've just written them.Whoops, I somehow missed your mention you had a magic marker. My goof.

Getting the Sceptre of Might is a good wish. Slotless magic resistance and toggleable conflict that doesn't use up a ring slot or make you hungry? Awesome.

I'm not sure what I'd spend the remaining wishes on offhand. You seem fairly well set, so I might actually try to make the Valkyrie into a spellcaster. You can do this with the remaining two wishes:
1) Either wishing for a Robe directly or a blessed figurine of an Archon. The latter only has an 80% of becoming your pet when you use the figurine, but if it does you can have it kill Priests for a chance at robes. This one is less certain, but will give you an awesome pet.
2) Getting a helm of brilliance, possibly via wishing. You've got two choices: The Mitre of Holiness of a regular helm. The Mitre of Holiness is nice because you can invoke it to restore half your power (which is good because Valkyries don't have high power), but after getting the Sceptre, you have only a 2/3 chance at it.

The robe and helm together will really help you out in casting things, though you'll also have to give up your gauntlets of strength (if you don't have gauntlets of dexterity, you'll want to use some leather gloves instead). It's up to you if you think it's worth it, but I've made Valkyries spellcasters before. You'll want to avoid genociding mind flayers, though, as you can eat their corpses for possible intelligence gain. Valkyrie spellcasters are a bit tough to pull off, but I really like spellcasting (it's really awesome to cast Identify) so I might try for it.

I guess you could wish for the Archon first and see if you get it, as it's a worthwhile wish even without the possibility of getting a robe. Though they get generated with artifact weapons, so doing so first would drop your chance at the mitre to 1/2, meaning you'd probably want to wish for a regular helm of brilliance.

[Cyborg Mage]

I'ma try this. Report back in mabye an hour or two.

EDIT: Okay, playthrough one: Samurai. He kicked an altar. Playthrough two: Valkyrie. Epic fail. Playthrough three: Monk.
Killed manes. Prayed. Found a settlement. Helped fight gnome/dorf invasion. Prayed more. Mah god does not like me anymore. Then I died while tripping out.

[IthilanorStPete]

Whoops, I somehow missed your mention you had a magic marker. My goof.

Getting the Sceptre of Might is a good wish. Slotless magic resistance and toggleable conflict that doesn't use up a ring slot or make you hungry? Awesome.

All righty. One wish will be used for that.


I'm not sure what I'd spend the remaining wishes on offhand. You seem fairly well set, so I might actually try to make the Valkyrie into a spellcaster. You can do this with the remaining two wishes:
1) Either wishing for a Robe directly or a blessed figurine of an Archon. The latter only has an 80% of becoming your pet when you use the figurine, but if it does you can have it kill Priests for a chance at robes. This one is less certain, but will give you an awesome pet.
2) Getting a helm of brilliance, possibly via wishing. You've got two choices: The Mitre of Holiness of a regular helm. The Mitre of Holiness is nice because you can invoke it to restore half your power (which is good because Valkyries don't have high power), but after getting the Sceptre, you have only a 2/3 chance at it.

The robe and helm together will really help you out in casting things, though you'll also have to give up your gauntlets of strength (if you don't have gauntlets of dexterity, you'll want to use some leather gloves instead). It's up to you if you think it's worth it, but I've made Valkyries spellcasters before. You'll want to avoid genociding mind flayers, though, as you can eat their corpses for possible intelligence gain. Valkyrie spellcasters are a bit tough to pull off, but I really like spellcasting (it's really awesome to cast Identify) so I might try for it.

I guess you could wish for the Archon first and see if you get it, as it's a worthwhile wish even without the possibility of getting a robe. Though they get generated with artifact weapons, so doing so first would drop your chance at the mitre to 1/2, meaning you'd probably want to wish for a regular helm of brilliance.

I think this plan is a little bit too...complicated for my first character. Too much to mess with, and I don't think I could make good use of it.

Incidentally, a question about genocides - if I read a blessed scroll of genocide, and type "mind flayers", will that kill mind flayers and master mind flayers, but not h's? I'm using the tileset version.

[RS14]

Incidentally, a question about genocides - if I read a blessed scroll of genocide, and type "mind flayers", will that kill mind flayers and master mind flayers, but not h's? I'm using the tileset version.

No. You need two uncursed scrolls.

Note that master mind flayers can be generated by summon nasties, i.e. right next to you. Ordinary mind flayers cannot. Thus master mind flayers are a much more important genocide target.

[Lord Seth]

Personally, I don't bother genociding mind flayers. They're not too hard to take care of from a distance, and the 50% chance of +1 intelligence from their corpses is too cool to throw away.

Liches, on the other hand, I absolutely hate and see no reason for them to even exist.

In other news, my semi-pacifist ascension goes well. I say "semi" because I accidentally killed two monsters along the way (though neither leveled me up). Still, I'm pretty well outfitted, with an amulet of reflection, an Eye of the Aethiopica, a djinn and dog for a pet, a magic whistle, and a pretty low AC due to both decent armor and a lot of protection bought. It won't be a true pacifist ascension and I plan to try again, but still, getting this far and only killing 2 things is still an accomplishment.

Next time I'll try to rob a shop to get a lot of Keystone Kops. Then I can get their custard pies and wield them--those deal no damage if you hit something with them by accident (though it makes them explode). Right now I'm going with a -3 knife, which unfortunately can still deal 1 damage.

[IthilanorStPete]

Glad to hear that the semi-pacifist run is going well! How far are you, exactly?

I can see what you mean about mind flayers, but for this character, I think the danger from them outweighs the intelligence gain.

Progress report: I wished for the Sceptre of Might, and am saving the other 2 wishes for right now. I beat the quest, cleared out the Valley, and have started delving into Gehennom. I've run across Asmodeus and Jubilex, neither of whom posed much of a challenge. I've gotten some nice random loot; a ring of conflict and an amulet of life saving, which I'm now wearing, since I have +4 blessed SDSM now. (I have an amulet of ESP as well, which is useful...but I think life saving is probably more useful for me)

EDIT: I have quite a lot of potions that are simply not much use to me by this point. Up til now, I've been diluting them into water to make holy water, but I currently have 13 potions of holy water, and I don't think I need a whole lot better. What should I do with the other potions instead? Polypile them, or what?

EDIT2: Incidentally, I have a ring of levitation, and have had for a while; that's my source of levitation. Going forward, I'm thinking about a (possibly wished for) ring of free action as my other ring; I can get conflict from the Sceptre of Might, and I think free action is probably more useful than slow digestion. Thoughts?

EDIT3: Also, I wrote up a blessed scroll of genocide and took out sea monsters.

[Lord Seth]

Glad to hear that the semi-pacifist run is going well! How far are you, exactly?Well I call it "semi-pacifist" because while I've killed two enemies, both were by accident, neither really affected my game, and I never killed anything in order to survive. So in terms of strategy it's still a pacifist run, the game just doesn't count it as such. But it still did disqualify me so hence the "semi-". Hopefully after this I can try for a real one.

I'm doing pretty well thanks to some luck. I've found two magic lamps. The first only gave me a djinn rather than a wish, but it's a strong pet and has really helped me out. The other one I used to get the Eye of the Aethiopica after getting the amulet of reflection in Sokoban. I could've wished for gray dragon scale mail, but thanks to good armor and LOTS of protection buying, I'm at -17 AC already; plus this means as long as I find any dragon scales I can use them (be they red, blue, or whatever), as I already have magic resistance and reflection.

Right now I'm heading down towards Mine's End. I want the Luckstone and I'm also hoping to find a polymorph trap somewhere around there, so I can use my Magic Whistle repeatedly to try to polymorph my pets into something stronger. Ordinarily I'd be more wary of doing that due to the possibility of getting myself polymorphed, but the Eye fixes that.


EDIT: I have quite a lot of potions that are simply not much use to me by this point. Up til now, I've been diluting them into water to make holy water, but I currently have 13 potions of holy water, and I don't think I need a whole lot better. What should I do with the other potions instead? Polypile them, or what?Polypiling is an option, or you could just stash them somewhere and come back for them if you need more potions to dip with.

[IthilanorStPete]

*lets out a big no*

Just died. Twice. Was coming up through Gehennom after levelporting to the bottom and finding the vibrating square, came up into Orcus Town, got swarmed, paralyzed, and didn't think to engrave the E-word, leading to my rapid death. :smallfurious:

[Blue Ghost]

I! ASCENDED! :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:


Farvel Tanya the Demigoddess...

You went to your reward with 3454872 points,
Mjollnir (worth 4000 zorkmids and 10000 points)
The Orb of Fate (worth 3500 zorkmids and 8750 points)
2 amulets of life saving (worth 300 zorkmids),
and 2 pieces of gold, after 51150 moves.
You were level 22 with a maximum of 192 hit points when you ascended.


I haz a happee.

[Shishnarfne]

I! ASCENDED! :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:


Farvel Tanya the Demigoddess...

You went to your reward with 3454872 points,
Mjollnir (worth 4000 zorkmids and 10000 points)
The Orb of Fate (worth 3500 zorkmids and 8750 points)
2 amulets of life saving (worth 300 zorkmids),
and 2 pieces of gold, after 51150 moves.
You were level 22 with a maximum of 192 hit points when you ascended.


I haz a happee.

Very nice!!

I managed to get an incredibly lucky barbarian, who I turned into my second ascension.

I was first level, on dungeon level 2, when I tried to engrave-identify a wand: "What would you like to wish for?"

The rest of the game, I was rocking SDSM, a cloak of magic resist, and Stormbringer. Yes, as chaotic, I could have just gotten crowned to get the happy sword of death, but I wanted to embrace my first opportunity to use the bloodthirsty blade. I think I would have had to hang my head if I had failed to ascend a character who had most of an ascension kit pre-Sokoban.

[RS14]

Congrats to you both.

I've got a pretty good Sporkhack Ranger down in Orcus town right now that I'm hoping to ascend. I've got a fairly odd kit that wouldn't be viable in Vanilla:

BlueDSM (speed)
Cloak of Magic Resistance
Shield of Reflection
Jumping boots

I killed the valley priest for his robe, and managed to snag a +5 helm of brilliance from some gehennom bones (incidentally, I don't think I've ever found a gehnnom bones file before). That player had been pretty well prepared, with +5 GrayDSM, Amulet of Reflection, and +2 Gauntlets of power on his corpse.

[pendell]

I! ASCENDED! :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

Woohoo! Congratulations! I forget what percentage of nethack players have ascended but it isn't large. Welcome to this very elite group!



Doesn't the corpse rot before you can make use of it though?


Sorry I didn't see this question earlier. It takes about 200 turns before the corpse rots, so the trick is to find one close enough that I can reach the bad guy before it rots. I only need to hit him once, after all.

Typically anywhere on the level is close enough, or immediately above or below. I may have to lure a cockatrice to the stairs on the adjacent level before killing it.

I also note that a ring of levitation will prevent a large number of cockatrice deaths.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[RS14]

Well, I died on astral to a pack of Angels, and Famine.




RS14, chaotic female human Ranger





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RS14 the Archer St:25 Dx:18 Co:16 In:18 Wi:18 Ch:12 Chaotic
Astral Plane $:0 HP:0(213) Pw:148(148) AC:-44 Exp:24 Blind Stun


Your inventory
Amulets
Z - the Amulet of Yendor named YENDOR
Weapons
b - the blessed fireproof +0 Longbow of Diana (weapon in hand)
d - 16 poisoned rustproof +6 arrows named $MINE$
H - a rustproof +6 dagger named $MINE$ (alternate weapon; not wielded)
W - 12 blessed rustproof +6 arrows named $MINE$ (in quiver)
Armor
k - a blessed fireproof +4 cloak of magic resistance (being worn)
o - a blessed greased fireproof +7 elven leather helm (being worn)
t - a blessed +5 blue dragon scale mail (being worn)
C - an uncursed greased rustproof +5 pair of gauntlets of power (being worn)
I - an uncursed fireproof +4 oilskin cloak
R - a blessed +4 shield of reflection (being worn)
V - an uncursed fireproof +4 pair of jumping boots (being worn)
Comestibles
G - an uncursed lizard corpse
Scrolls
y - a blessed scroll of create monster
Potions
L - 2 uncursed potions of full healing
Rings
g - an uncursed ring of free action (on right hand)
u - an uncursed ring of conflict (on left hand)
v - an uncursed ring of levitation
O - an uncursed ring of slow digestion
Wands
f - a wand of death (0:1)
h - a wand of digging (0:4)
i - a wand of lightning (0:1)
l - a wand of slow monster (0:0)
m - a wand of sleep (0:6)
q - a wand of slow monster (0:2)
E - a wand of digging (0:7)
J - a cursed wand of teleportation (0:1)
Q - a wand of digging (0:8)
Tools
p - an uncursed blindfold (being worn)
x - an uncursed magic lamp (lit)
z - a blessed greased +0 unicorn horn
A - an uncursed skeleton key
D - a blessed greased bag of holding
K - the uncursed Candelabrum of Invocation (7 candles attached)
M - an uncursed greased small sack named DANGER
U - an uncursed magic whistle
Y - an uncursed stethoscope
Gems
X - a blessed luckstone

Contents of the bag of holding:
an uncursed amulet of magical breathing
an uncursed amulet of power
192 blessed poisoned rustproof +6 arrows named $MINE$
the fireproof +0 Sting
the +2 Grayswandir
the rustproof +0 Dirge
the +0 Trollsbane
a +0 athame
a +3 athame
a blessed +1 bow
15 poisoned +2 arrows named $MINE$
an uncursed +0 cloak of invisibility
a cursed -1 pair of levitation boots
a blessed +1 robe
an uncursed rustproof +5 helm of brilliance
a blessed +1 pair of leather gloves
11 uncursed K-rations
2 uncursed K-rations
2 uncursed C-rations
5 uncursed lizard corpses
3 uncursed lembas wafers
2 uncursed sprigs of wolfsbane
2 uncursed fortune cookies
a blessed scroll of stinking cloud
an uncursed scroll of enchant weapon
an uncursed scroll of enchant weapon
5 cursed scrolls of teleportation
3 blessed scrolls of remove curse
an uncursed scroll of taming
a cursed scroll of destroy armor
4 uncursed scrolls of blank paper
4 uncursed scrolls of earth
2 blessed scrolls of blank paper
an uncursed scroll of scare monster
an uncursed potion of gain energy
a potion of unholy water
7 potions of holy water
3 uncursed potions of water
3 blessed potions of full healing
3 uncursed potions of paralysis
an uncursed ring of teleport control
an uncursed ring of teleport control
a cursed ring of polymorph
a cursed ring of regeneration
an uncursed ring of regeneration
an uncursed ring of teleport control
an uncursed ring of polymorph
an uncursed ring of free action
an uncursed ring of polymorph control
an uncursed ring of free action
an uncursed ring of hunger
an uncursed ring of fire resistance
an uncursed ring of protection from shape changers
an uncursed ring of polymorph control
an uncursed ring of levitation
an uncursed ring of levitation
an uncursed ring of fire resistance
an uncursed ring of teleport control
an uncursed ring of see invisible
an uncursed ring of slow digestion
an uncursed ring of conflict
a wand of digging (0:2)
a wand of digging (0:6)
a wand of digging (0:2)
a wand of digging (0:4)
a wand of digging (0:4)
a wand of digging (0:5)
a wand of digging (0:7)
a wand of digging (0:4)
a wand of digging (0:4)
a wand of enlightenment (0:7)
a wand of lightning (0:2)
a wand of teleportation (0:6)
a wand of lightning (0:7)
a wand of wishing (1:3)
a wand of sleep (0:5)
a wand of teleportation (0:5)
a wand of teleportation (0:6)
a wand of cold (0:3)
a wand of death (0:7)
a wand of fire (0:6)
a wand of speed monster (0:4)
a wand of fire (0:4)
a wand of teleportation (0:7)
a wand of teleportation (0:6)
a wand of slow monster (0:3)
a cursed pair of lenses
a blessed magic harp (0:4)
a can of grease (0:9)
an uncursed worthless piece of blue glass
an uncursed ruby
an uncursed opal
an uncursed amethyst stone
an uncursed worthless piece of green glass
4 uncursed jasper stones
9 uncursed rubies
10 uncursed amethyst stones
9 uncursed diamonds
5 uncursed emeralds
a blessed luckstone
an uncursed skull of biglivy
an uncursed skull of silvan

Contents of the small sack named DANGER:
6 blessed scrolls of remove curse
a cursed wand of cancellation (0:5)
a cursed wand of cancellation (0:8)
a wand of cancellation (0:0)

Final attributes
You were piously aligned
Your alignment was 50
You were 100% fire resistant
You were 100% cold resistant
You were 100% sleep resistant
You were 100% disintegration-resistant
You were 100% shock resistant
You were 100% poison resistant
You were magic-protected
You were stunned
You saw invisible
You were telepathic
You had automatic searching
You were invisible to others
You were stealthy
You caused conflict
You could jump
You could teleport
You were protected
You were protected from shape changers
You were very fast
You had reflection
You had free action
You were extremely lucky (12)
You had extra luck
Good luck did not time out for you
You are dead (3rd time!)

Spells known in the end
Name Level Category Fail
a - light 1 divination 100%
b - clairvoyance 3 divination 100%
c - detect monsters 3 divination 81%
d - detect treasure 4* divination 100%
e - magic mapping 5* divination 100%
f - detect foot 7 divination 100%
g - charm monster 6 enchantment 100%
h - sleep 1* enchantment 100%
i - slow monster 2 enchantment 100%
j - confuse monster 2 enchantment 100%
k - reflection 6 matter 100%
l - obtain food 1 matter 100%
m - wizard lock 2 matter 100%
n - repair armor 3 matter 100%
o - cure sickness 3 healing 100%
p - restore ability 2 healing 100%
q - cure blindness 2* healing 100%
r - extra healing 3* healing 100%
s - stone to flesh 3 healing 100%
t - invisibility 2 escape 100%
u - haste self 3* escape 100%
v - levitation 4* escape 100%
w - force bolt 1* attack 100%
x - drain life 2 attack 100%
y - turn undead 6 clerical 100%
z - cause fear 3 enchantment 100%

Vanquished creatures
Asmodeus
Baalzebub
Dispater
Geryon
Orcus
Yeenoghu
a Juiblex
Famine
The Wizard of Yendor (6 times)
12 arch-liches
a high priest
3 mastodons
Medusa
Croesus
6 krakens
3 boojums
6 iron golems
8 master liches
2 ki-rin
4 storm giants
2 titans
7 glass golems
4 balrogs
7 purple worms
3 gray dragons
4 silver dragons
8 red dragons
4 white dragons
8 orange dragons
13 black dragons
11 blue dragons
8 green dragons
10 gold dragons
6 yellow dragons
7 minotaurs
11 jabberwocks
Scorpius
12 baluchitheria
an Angel
14 demiliches
Vlad the Impaler
7 stone golems
8 master mind flayers
29 Olog-hai
7 Nazguls
19 pit fiends
a sandestin
5 hell hounds
10 titanotheres
7 trappers
a baby gray dragon
2 baby blue dragons
9 snarks
3 guardian nagas
3 disenchanters
34 vampire lords
5 skeletons
3 aligned priests
15 captains
5 shades
5 winged gargoyles
15 liches
9 clay golems
10 nurses
10 ice devils
8 nalfeshnees
5 lurkers above
2 Aleaxes
11 ettins
4 golden nagas
32 black puddings
31 vampires
12 lieutenants
37 ghosts
a queen bee
47 locusts
15 magical eyes
10 mind flayers
10 giant mimics
27 zruties
6 fire giants
6 ogre kings
3 ice trolls
15 rock trolls
21 umber hulks
10 shambling horrors
11 flesh golems
4 Elvenkings
4 doppelgangers
17 hezrous
23 bone devils
15 large mimics
4 wumpuses
4 fire vortices
a baby long worm
11 long worms
12 couatls
24 stalkers
21 air elementals
13 fire elementals
8 earth elementals
9 water elementals
5 hill giants
17 giant mummies
a black naga
14 xorns
25 giant zombies
16 elf-lords
37 sergeants
5 barbed devils
17 vrocks
5 salamanders
22 wargs
4 winter wolves
14 hell hound pups
31 small mimics
7 glass piercers
13 warhorses
5 steam vortices
29 xans
12 hill giant shamans
8 ettin mummies
3 ogre lords
28 quantum mechanics
38 trolls
2 sasquatches
7 wood golems
3 erinyes
9 mariliths
a djinni
2 sharks
6 electric eels
9 giant turtles
11 gelatinous cubes
9 pyrolisks
4 large dogs
10 freezing spheres
11 flaming spheres
16 shocking spheres
7 large cats
15 tigers
14 gargoyles
4 dwarf kings
13 tengu
8 ochre jellies
13 leocrottas
10 energy vortices
41 mountain centaurs
2 stone giants
7 elf mummies
6 human mummies
3 red nagas
3 green slimes
9 pit vipers
9 pythons
10 cobras
56 wraiths
17 carnivorous apes
11 ettin zombies
6 leather golems
8 Grey-elves
120 soldiers
18 horned devils
12 succubi
15 incubi
12 chameleons
9 crocodiles
53 giant beetles
10 quivering blobs
33 cockatrices
19 wolves
12 winter wolf cubs
11 lynxes
2 panthers
15 gremlins
4 spotted jellies
13 leprechauns
6 orc-captains
6 iron piercers
5 mumakil
11 giant spiders
58 scorpions
3 horses
4 nightmares
6 ice vortices
14 black lights
16 vampire bats
72 forest centaurs
9 gnome kings
8 orc mummies
6 dwarf mummies
5 ogres
18 brown puddings
5 rust monsters
19 owlbears
13 yetis
8 gold golems
8 werewolves
6 Green-elves
2 piranhas
13 giant eels
30 lizards
10 chickatrices
7 dogs
5 dingos
6 housecats
13 jaguars
10 dwarf lords
5 blue jellies
5 white unicorns
11 gray unicorns
a black unicorn
13 dust vortices
16 ravens
34 plains centaurs
10 gnome mummies
12 snakes
23 apes
22 human zombies
5 rope golems
4 Woodland-elves
73 soldier ants
51 fire ants
29 bugbears
an imp
6 lemures
4 quasits
7 wood nymphs
3 water nymphs
11 mountain nymphs
13 Mordor orcs
24 Uruk-hai
11 orc shamans
12 rock piercers
6 rock moles
9 ponies
8 fog clouds
17 yellow lights
2 shriekers
5 violet fungi
6 gray fungi
30 gnome lords
10 gnomish wizards
3 kobold mummies
a red naga hatchling
a golden naga hatchling
2 guardian naga hatchlings
6 gray oozes
7 barrow wights
25 elf zombies
20 ghouls
4 straw golems
a paper golem
5 jellyfish
a baby crocodile
89 giant ants
6 little dogs
8 floating eyes
4 kittens
26 dwarves
a homunculus
a kobold lord
6 kobold shamans
12 goblin shamans
8 hill orcs
24 rothes
4 rabid rats
3 centipedes
12 giant bats
6 monkeys
28 orc zombies
21 dwarf zombies
3 wererats
2 werejackals
10 iguanas
127 killer bees
5 acid blobs
6 coyotes
3 gas spores
8 hobbits
21 manes
a large kobold
24 hobgoblins
18 giant rats
22 cave spiders
6 brown molds
3 yellow molds
a green mold
2 red molds
105 gnomes
12 garter snakes
11 gnome zombies
8 geckos
14 jackals
2 foxes
7 kobolds
17 goblins
2 sewer rats
12 grid bugs
5 bats
15 lichens
15 kobold zombies
20 newts
3748 creatures vanquished.

Genocided species:
rust monsters
disenchanters
2 species genocided.
Voluntary challenges
You genocided 2 types of monsters
You polymorphed 29 items
You changed form 3 times
You used 3 wishes
You did not wish for any artifacts

Your skills at the end
Fighting Skills
bare handed combat [Basic]
Weapon Skills
dagger [Expert]
long sword [Basic]
spear [Basic]
bow [Expert]
Spellcasting Skills
divination spells [Skilled]
matter spells [Basic]

Goodbye RS14 the Ranger...
You died in The Astral Plane with 3038386 points,
and 0 pieces of gold, after 67217 moves.
Killer: Angel (with the Amulet)
You were level 24 with a maximum of 213 hit points when you died.

You reached the 133rd place on the top 2000 list.

No Points Name Hp [max]
1 17592819 ladno-Wiz-Elf-Mal-Neu died in The Dungeons of Doom on
level 12 [max 28]. Shot himself with a death ray. 691 [916]
2 16636350 ladno-Wiz-Elf-Mal-Neu turned to stone in The Dungeons
of Doom on level 10 [max 28]. Petrified by an
Olog-hai. 986 [1077]
3 10415144 OrangeXP-Val-Hum-Fem-Neu ascended to
demigoddess-hood. 279 [279]
4 9745254 firemonkey-Hea-Gno-Fem-Neu ascended to
demigoddess-hood. 301 [349]
5 8698278 bubba-Val-Hum-Fem-Law died on the Astral Plane.
Killed by Pestilence. - [364]
6 8527626 koyaan-Tou-Hum-Fem-Neu ascended to demigoddess-hood. 301 [309]
7 7665037 ladno-Wiz-Elf-Mal-Neu was poisoned in Sokoban on
level 6 [max 25]. Poisoned by a bad case of
botulism. 144 [144]
8 7448634 dfranke-Val-Dwa-Fem-Law ascended to demigoddess-hood. 311 [348]
9 7208722 flambo-Pri-Hum-Mal-Neu ascended to demigod-hood. 191 [301]
10 6919314 spontiff-Hea-Gno-Mal-Neu ascended to demigod-hood. 49 [338]
131 3080484 78291-Sam-Hum-Mal-Law ascended to demigod-hood. 197 [215]
132 3070512 Souai-Sam-Hum-Mal-Law ascended to demigod-hood. 79 [244]
*133 3038386 RS14-Ran-Hum-Fem-Cha died on the Astral Plane.
Killed by an Angel (with the Amulet). - [213]
134 3029921 aaxelb-Ran-Elf-Fem-Neu ascended to demigoddess-hood. 159 [216]
135 3012880 Dentarthur-Ran-Elf-Mal-Law ascended to demigod-hood. 77 [187]
434 484456 RS14-Mon-Hum-Mal-Cha died in The Dungeons of Doom on
level 26. Killed by an invisible ki-rin. - [165]
953 117693 RS14-Cav-Hum-Fem-Law was poisoned in The Dungeons of
Doom on level 14 [max 17]. Poisoned by a locust. 128 [128]
1676 39336 RS14-Bar-Hum-Mal-Neu died in The Gnomish Mines on
level 10 [max 12]. Killed by a minotaur. - [109]

[Blue Ghost]

Now I'm trying my hand at playing a Knight. But my horse keeps dying on me. How do I keep my horse alive, and alternatively, if my horse dies, what do I do next? Stash my saddle and hope for a new horse? Become a foot soldier for the rest of the game?

[Bucky]

Now I'm trying my hand at playing a Knight. But my horse keeps dying on me. How do I keep my horse alive, and alternatively, if my horse dies, what do I do next? Stash my saddle and hope for a new horse? Become a foot soldier for the rest of the game?

Tame a dragon.

[pendell]

Now I'm trying my hand at playing a Knight. But my horse keeps dying on me. How do I keep my horse alive,


Note that the knight starts with a large supply of apples and other fruits. No other class does -- except the vegetarian monk? Hint hint.

The apples and fruits will not be enough to keep the horse from starving, so the thing to do is , when it's really hungry, go down to the next level without it and wander around for awhile. The horse will go feral on the level above but will NOT starve to death. Then go back upstairs , feed it a fruit, and re-tame it.

You can also prolong the horse's life by allowing it to eat the corpses of vegetable monsters, such as lichen.

Be that as it may, I suspect it will be nearly impossible to keep your horse alive to the end of the game. Be prepared for it to die somehow. When it does, there are other creatures that can be tamed and ridden, such as dragons or ki-rin. IIRC, these creatures can only be tamed via a scroll of taming, the spell of Charm Monster, or by wishing for a blessed figurine of [your pet here], then invoking it or applying it. Even then, the creature generated from a blessed figurine is not guaranteed to be tame.

Personally, I gave up on riding and simply tame a lot of purple worms. They're great fun with a ring of conflict, allowing them to eat just about anything human size. That *buurp!* sends me into giggle fits :)

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Lord Seth]

Well, there goes my pacifist run (okay, I had already broken it a few times by accidentally killing 4 monsters, but still). I got killed by the cyclops on the quest. Didn't think he could kill me so quickly.

Now it's time to figure out if I should give pacifist another go, or if I should do another Knight ascension (my favorite class) or try to finally get a Ranger ascension (only class I haven't ascended as).

[Randel]

I've played Nethack quite a bit, but not recently. I usually go with a human wizard or occasionally an archeologist, rogue, or tourist mostly for the stuff they start out with.

I've never acended without cheating and most of my games tend to consist of me just messing around. I'd try to get lots of meatballs or tripe rations to tame any dogs or cats I find, I'd get a tinning kit and make tins out of any monsters I'd find, and there have been plenty of wizards who would learn something like "stone to flesh", get a pickaxe, and then make meatballs or huge chunks of meat to eat. Or create monsters to kill for XP, or get a bunch of tame monsters to clear out all the hostiles around me (by wishing for blessed figurines, polymorphing into an egg laying monster, or other stuff).

I like to think that a fair percentage of my characters made their way through the gnomish mines to the town and were able to attain a really weird form of retirement there by constantly killing things, eating them, and stockpiling supplies until things got weird and I started a new character.

[Murdim]

Starving horses will eat processed food. The only way I know to keep your horse alive as long as possible is to let him become very hungry to the point of confusion, and then drop a food ration. Cruel, yes, but this is Nethack.

[Lord Seth]

Well a few more attempts at a pacifist ascension later not working, I'm putting that on the backburner for now and going back to just doing a regular Knight playthrough. It's funny, though, because I've been trying for that pacifist for so long I keep habitually NOT attacking enemies and waiting for my pet to do it instead.