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BrowncoatJayson
2011-04-23, 12:37 AM
At long last my group is getting ready to do some 4E gaming, but one of my players had concerns about his background. He wanted to play a dwarven smith, who takes to adventuring in his old age after a tragedy. However, the... complete lack... of rules for creating items annoyed him. Sure, he could learn the Enchant Magic Item ritual at level 4 and make pretty much anything he wanted. I even said he could use it to make non-magical gear the same way, but he wanted something better. In truth, he wanted a skill-based system.

Here's what I came up with, kind of a hybrid skills/ritual thing. Hopefully you guys can see any flaws in it before we start using it.


Skills
Craft (Intelligence)
You know how to repair, improve, and create a variety of goods.

Special: Each time you gain training in this skill, you must select what specialty it applies to. For all other specialties. Each specialty must be tracked separately. Available specialties include: alchemy, blacksmithing, carpentry, cartography, cooking, fletching, jewelcraft, masonry, mechanics, shipmaking, tailoring, and weaving.

Craft Object
Make a Craft check to successfully craft an object. Object creation is treated as a ritual, although no ritual book is required, nor is the knowledge lost upon success.

Craft: Daily action.

DC: Varies depending on the task you're attempting.
Success: You create a mundane object.
Failure: You lose half of the component cost, and can try again.


{TABLE=HEAD]Standard Object|Craft DC

Standard gear (clothing, rope, rations, etc)|10

Specialty gear (climber's kit, implements, feast, etc)|20

Serviceable gear (armor, weapons, etc)|25

Paragon masterwork gear|30

Epic masterwork gear|35
[/table]

Object Knowledge

Make a Craft check to recognize useful knowledge about an item that can be created using your specialty, general information about its use, or the crafting of such objects.

Examples of object knowledge include determining if an object has been weakened (common), recognizing the mark of superior (or inferior) craftsmanship (common), recognizing fakes (expert), or spotting hidden flaws (master).

Diplomacy (Charisma)
In addition to its uses in modifying a target's general attitude, Diplomacy can be used influence others when negotiating purchases, rights, and reimbursement. This makes this skill especially important for salesmen.

Negotiate Sale
Your Diplomacy check is opposed by an observer's Insight check. When negotiating deals between salesmen, your Diplomacy check is opposed by the other party's Diplomacy check.

Negotiate Sale: Encounter action.

DC: Diplomacy vs. Insight (or Diplomacy).
Success: You increase the price, quantity or other factor by 10% in your favor.
Failure: Normally, you can't try again. If you forfeit and restart negotiations, increase the price, quantity or other factor by 10% in favor of your opponent.



Skill Rituals

Create Item
You use your expertise in crafting to create an item.
{TABLE]Level: 1|Component Cost: Special

Category: Creation|Market Price: 75 gp

Time: Special|Key Skill: Craft

Duration: Permanent|
[/TABLE]

You create a normal item. The ritual's component cost is 80% of the price of the item you create.

You can also use this ritual to repair an existing item. The component cost is one-fifth the price of the item you are repairing (for example, repairing scale armor costs 9 gp in components, which is 1/5x the cost of scale armor, 45 gp).

Creating an item requires a skill challenge. The Complexity is 2, requiring 6 successes before 3 failures. The time it takes to create the item varies depending on its type; armor and weapons may take days to complete, but a candle only an hour.

Create Masterwork Item
You fashion an object of unsurpassed quality.
{TABLE]Level: 16|Component Cost: Special

Category: Creation|Market Price: 125 gp

Time: Special|Key Skill: Craft

Duration: Permanent|
[/TABLE]

You create a masterwork item. The ritual's component cost is equal to 100x the price of the standard item you create (for example, to create Wyrmscale armor, the cost of the components is 4,500 gp, which is 100x the cost of scale armor, 45 gp).

Creating a masterwork item requires a skill challenge. The Complexity is 4, requiring 10 successes before 3 failures. The time it takes to create the item varies depending on its type; masterwork armor may take a week or more to complete, but silk rope may only take two days to weave. Masterwork armor is listed in the Player's Handbook, but other masterwork items are possible. All masterwork items can be treated as magical items for determining their weight, saves and durability, but are non-magical and function normal in areas of non-magic, and cannot be dispelled.


My first post here, so fire away! Thanks!

Towa
2011-04-24, 09:44 AM
I like it. Although should you really have to be level 16 to create a masterwork item? Will you really have a use for it? It won't help you much at all in a fight, since by then you'll probably have much better weapons, and you won't make any real money off of it either, as whatever profits you make will be vastly out shined with the huge bags of loot you'll be bringing in by then.

Also, in regards to the negotiating, wouldn't that make more sense as a role playing scenario? Like you have the player convince the guy in character to pay a higher price, and maybe use the Bluff or Diplomacy skills to help?

But yeah, besides that, I like it. Nicely done. :smallsmile:

BrowncoatJayson
2011-04-25, 08:17 AM
Personally, I don't think you should, but I'm going based on the PHB that says "These masterwork armors never appear except as magic armor, and even then only at the highest levels (16th and above)." So, I set the craft at 16th level to match that. I don't have many other books, so if this has been modified since the Deluxe PHB, let me know and I can rework it.

I'm thinking about rewriting the craft and negotiation DCs as skill challenges, so skills have "some" value. Diplomacy should always be heavily role playing, however. (I'm still trying to decide whether to leave Bluff and Diplomacy as two skills, or just combine them. I can't really see the benefit of having both.)

Towa
2011-04-25, 06:17 PM
Personally, I don't think you should, but I'm going based on the PHB that says "These masterwork armors never appear except as magic armor, and even then only at the highest levels (16th and above)." So, I set the craft at 16th level to match that. I don't have many other books, so if this has been modified since the Deluxe PHB, let me know and I can rework it.

I'm thinking about rewriting the craft and negotiation DCs as skill challenges, so skills have "some" value. Diplomacy should always be heavily role playing, however. (I'm still trying to decide whether to leave Bluff and Diplomacy as two skills, or just combine them. I can't really see the benefit of having both.)

The system my group uses for both 3.P & 4E is the Giant's own homebrewed Persuasion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9606632&postcount=2) skill. I think it works much better than the Diplomacy skill, definitely worth a look.

Temassasin
2011-04-25, 08:22 PM
the price for making something should be 95% of value otherwise blacksniths would never get any profits and die of starvation

CrazedBanana
2011-04-25, 10:35 PM
I'd say 75% value, otherwise there's really no point in crafting your own goods. Perhaps, the outcome of the check also affects the quality of the item? Say, you make a below average check, but enough to successfully make a longsword. Instead of the +3 proficiency bonus, it grants only a +2? Or very poorly, a +1, or no bonus at all? And perhaps on an outstandingly good check, give it +4?

BrowncoatJayson
2011-04-26, 09:23 AM
I reworked it a bit to include skill challenges, and lower the cost. I set the cost to create an item at 80% of the price of that item; enough to make a profit, but not low enough that you could hire it done cheaper than buying at the base price.

I'm looking at the Persuasion skill that was linked; it looks like this is for 3.5, but could be adapted for 4E. It still has synergy listed for Bluff, which I would do away with completely if I went that direction, but it is a good start.

Still not sure how often this will come up, so one we start playing I'll let you know how it goes.