Smallville

[ThePhantasm]

So I used to watch this show and stopped sometime around the 6th season I think. I've heard it got worse afterwards, which is why I never picked it back up. Now the series is coming to a close, Rosenbaum is back as Luthor, etc. and I'm wondering if I should start watching again.

Anyone still watching? What is your opinion of Smallville? Especially in regards to the final season?

I've never been a huge fan of the show or its different take on Superman, but I have to say that Rosenbaum IS Lex Luthor, in my mind.

[Popertop]

I watched it from the very beginning, but stopped when Kristen Kreuk left.

It got really weird and overly complicated.

I haven't seen any episodes since like the 7th season I think, right around Green Arrow.

[Dr.Epic]

Teenage versions of well known and beloved superheroes? Why not? After all, we've all seen how successful a series can be when you make a well known character or concept a teenager, like making fierce, terrifying, dangerous movie monsters like werewolves and vampires teenagers. Wait...

[enigmatime]

Teenage versions of well known and beloved superheroes? Why not? After all, we've all seen how successful a series can be when you make a well known character or concept a teenager, like making fierce, terrifying, dangerous movie monsters like werewolves and vampires teenagers. Wait...

You are my hero. :smallbiggrin:

Personally, I quite like Smallville. I didn't get the chance to watch it from the beginning because I was a forgetful child who never remembered when a television show was on. However, Smallville seems to me as one of those shows that are worth watching even if you aren't much of a fan of Superman (I'm not, too overpowered) because of how it portrays the character as a "normal" person. Okay, a bit cliche, but still.

[Popertop]

the show was fine.

for me it just didn't develop enough once they got out of high school.
the transition into the adult superman just wasn't convincing for me at all.

[ThePhantasm]

Is the final season actually good so far? Or is the finale just being overhyped?

Has anyone here watched the latest season? I'm kinda curious about him putting on the suit + Lex + Darkseid all in the finale. But I don't want to watch the finale and not know what the heck is going on.

[Prime32]

Never saw much of Smallville (and only the earlier seasons), but this casting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGfIJURIwcA) made me lol.

[Leecros]

You are my hero. :smallbiggrin:


Dr. Epic is everybody's hero.

[Jerthanis]

I watched it from the very beginning, but stopped when Kristen Kreuk left.


Really!? Kreuk was a cancer on that show and I think the show was never better than immediately after she left and never more 'stomp around raging' than when she briefly came back. I seriously don't think I can generate more hatred towards a fictional character than I do towards Smallville's Lana Lang.

I really like Smallville, but I'm behind a season or two because I only watch it when I get a season on DVD. I really don't have a lot of good reasons for my intense affection. It's just so addictive. When I'm going through a season, I'll find myself awake at 3:00 AM thinking, "Okay, I think can watch one more episode, then sleep a couple hours and squeeze one in before I have to leave for work."

It's a show about superheroes where superheroics happen in every episode. It's a show where the majority of episodes are significant in some way to an ongoing story. It's a show with some surprisingly good acting in places (the Luthors, the Kents, Lois) even if it's got some incredible stinkers. Plus it's got Chloe Sullivan, the character cool enough that she made the transition to main continuity DC comics in spite of being from a less-than-totally respected series unlike Harley from Batman: TAS, and in spite of being sort of redundant with other characters, again, unlike Harley.


Teenage versions of well known and beloved superheroes? Why not? After all, we've all seen how successful a series can be when you make a well known character or concept a teenager, like making fierce, terrifying, dangerous movie monsters like werewolves and vampires teenagers. Wait...

Uh... you are aware that the Smallville TV show predates Twilight by about 5 years, and is also just a television version of the Superboy mythos which has been in comics since the 40s.

[Maxios]

I personally love this show. I'm actually a little sad it's ending.

[Popertop]

It's a show with some surprisingly good acting in places (the Luthors, the Kents, Lois) even if it's got some incredible stinkers.

Actually the thing that killed it for me was probably Tom Welling. :smallsigh:

Anyway, to each his own. I was probably just going through changes in my own life that made it not enjoyable.

[Lord Seth]

Teenage versions of well known and beloved superheroes? Why not?Absolutely! Batman Beyond was awesome.


After all, we've all seen how successful a series can be when you make a well known character or concept a teenager, like making fierce, terrifying, dangerous movie monsters like werewolves and vampires teenagers.I agree, The Vampire Diaries is one of the best shows on TV right now.

[Dr.Epic]

Dr. Epic is everybody's hero.

Yeah I am. But by hero, that better be meant to be ironic because I'm a super-villain.


Uh... you are aware that the Smallville TV show predates Twilight by about 5 years, and is also just a television version of the Superboy mythos which has been in comics since the 40s.

Hey! That was a joke.
I've never seen the show and don't really have an interest to do so. Something about it seems sort of gimmicky. Like making Superman a hot teenage boy will attract the teenage girl demographic. Yeah, I haven't seen it and this is just a completely wild theory I have really no evidence to back up on, but still, teenage girls can ruin a lot of things with their stupid feelings (no offense to women or teenage girls, but some of you can make something stupid successful despite stupid plot and dumb characters *cough* Twilight *cough*).

I mean there have been good, interesting stories about teenage superheroes. Most notably Spider-Man. Also Kick-Ass a movie and comic I love. Still, again repeating myself, it does seem sort of gimmicky. I mean Superman when he first appeared in comics and other media was an adult. It'd be like making Watchmen Babies (which would be hilarious). They started out as an adult so what's with them making them younger?

[ThePhantasm]

I've never seen the show and don't really have an interest to do so. Something about it seems sort of gimmicky. Like making Superman a hot teenage boy will attract the teenage girl demographic.

The show is admittedly soap operaish in the early seasons but it did get more Superman-mythos oriented in the later seasons. I always watched for the action and the season arcs, not the romance. But even some of the season arcs were crap. It varies; the show is pretty uneven in that regard, from what I remember.

But I also haven't kept up with the last 4 or 5 seasons . . .

I mean, from what I'm told, this final season has DARKSEID in it. I don't think they'd throw him in to attract the teenage girl demographic. . . its tempting.

[Hopeless]

So I used to watch this show and stopped sometime around the 6th season I think. I've heard it got worse afterwards, which is why I never picked it back up. Now the series is coming to a close, Rosenbaum is back as Luthor, etc. and I'm wondering if I should start watching again.

Its got better since they stopped the mess that surrounded Lana Lang.


Anyone still watching? What is your opinion of Smallville? Especially in regards to the final season?

I skipped a few episodes but the latest season has been remarkably good Booster is included even though I felt Legion was deeply flawed with the Lana Lang subplot that really should have been binned rather than followed through.
Absolute Justice was much better even if there was a couple of mistakes since the villain in the episode should have been a group of at least 3 to make it more of a credible threat and the Fate Helmet thing at the end should have also been binned but at least it wasn't as bad as the writing given for Lana Lang!


I've never been a huge fan of the show or its different take on Superman, but I have to say that Rosenbaum IS Lex Luthor, in my mind.

Had to say I'd rather Lex didn't return so they could develop Darkseid properly as it is the next episode deal with an old nemesis before returning to resolving that darkness sub plot... well hopefully.

I'd recommend at the very least watching this and the previous season as a taster since it'll make the last season look that much better!

PS: Even more JSA for one thing, oh and ignore the major mistake at the end of the episode with Hawkman I won't spoil it but that was pretty much the major mistake of the season well that and Conner but compared to previous seasons not that major!

PPS: I did miss the real spoilers didn't I?

[Lord Seth]

What's with this talk of Twilight? Wasn't Dr. Epic referring to The Vampire Diaries?

[Jerthanis]

I mean there have been good, interesting stories about teenage superheroes. Most notably Spider-Man. Also Kick-Ass a movie and comic I love. Still, again repeating myself, it does seem sort of gimmicky. I mean Superman when he first appeared in comics and other media was an adult. It'd be like making Watchmen Babies (which would be hilarious). They started out as an adult so what's with them making them younger?

Well, making elemental stories about coming of age, learning to love for the first time, having your heart broken for the first time, losing a parent tragically and early, finding yourself growing apart from once inseparable friends... these are iconic stories that fit iconic characters, and teenage years are particularly appropriate times for these types of stories. So doesn't it make sense to put these elements together and make a story about them?

Smallville isn't perfect, and I've had enough eyerolls through the course of the show to give my superior rectus muscles a workout, but conceptually it isn't bad and as far as execution goes it could have been a hell of a lot worse.

[Dr.Epic]

What's with this talk of Twilight? Wasn't Dr. Epic referring to The Vampire Diaries?

Nope, I was specifically referring to Twilight, but any crappy vampire romance story is also...crappy and could be used in there.


Well, making elemental stories about coming of age, learning to love for the first time, having your heart broken for the first time, losing a parent tragically and early, finding yourself growing apart from once inseparable friends... these are iconic stories that fit iconic characters, and teenage years are particularly appropriate times for these types of stories. So doesn't it make sense to put these elements together and make a story about them?

Yes but do we need to see these and if we do does it have to be an entire series? I know backstory is important but do we as an audience have to see them all? Not to mention all the things you just describe can come off as being trite and cliche. These elements are all very tragic and have depth, but is that why Superman is iconic, heroic, and memorable? Just because these work for some characters doesn't mean they work for all characters. Take fore example losing a parent at a young age: how many times in comics have that been used? Obviously I never read the comics and am not familiar with most of the films or TV shows, but I thought Superman's parents were alive when he was an adult (and I'm talking about his adopted parents the Kents, not his birth parents as they and their entire planet are kind of gone).

[Lord Seth]

Nope, I was specifically referring to Twilight, but any crappy vampire romance story is also...crappy and could be used in there.I think you were kinda missing the point I was making, though I suppose I wasn't necessarily that obvious about it. You were referring to Twilight and sarcastically saying that making vampires and werewolves teenagers would be a success (I assume we were talking quality here, as regardless of what you think about Twilight in terms of quality, no one can deny it isn't popular). I then facetiously acted like you were referring to The Vampire Diaries, then I tried to keep the joke going with my "wait, wasn't Dr. Epic referring to The Vampire Diaries?" The whole joke was that The Vampire Diaries fit your description, except far from being "any crappy vampire romance story" (outside of maybe the first few episodes) it's a really good show.

[ThePhantasm]

Yes but do we need to see these and if we do does it have to be an entire series? I know backstory is important but do we as an audience have to see them all? Not to mention all the things you just describe can come off as being trite and cliche. These elements are all very tragic and have depth, but is that why Superman is iconic, heroic, and memorable? Just because these work for some characters doesn't mean they work for all characters. Take fore example losing a parent at a young age: how many times in comics have that been used? Obviously I never read the comics and am not familiar with most of the films or TV shows, but I thought Superman's parents were alive when he was an adult (and I'm talking about his adopted parents the Kents, not his birth parents as they and their entire planet are kind of gone).

Smallville is a show with a lot of flaws. I've never been more than a causal watcher. But it can't simply be reduced to what you described. The mythos, classic villains, etc. everything is there, and it is more than a teenage romance set in Superman-world (well, maybe the first two seasons were, but not afterwards). There have been a lot of horrible eps, but a lot of really good ones too. Its a mixed bag.

[Dr.Epic]

Smallville is a show with a lot of flaws. I've never been more than a causal watcher. But it can't simply be reduced to what you described. The mythos, classic villains, etc. everything is there, and it is more than a teenage romance set in Superman-world (well, maybe the first two seasons were, but not afterwards). There have been a lot of horrible eps, but a lot of really good ones too. Its a mixed bag.

Meh, I'm still sticking to my opinion. Back stories and character development are important - very important - but again, reiterating myself, does this have to be an entire series? Yeah, I know I'm just reusing my old arguments, but I think it's a matter of taste and this is something I just don't find interesting: it's not entertaining to me personally. But hey, I've never seen an episode, but still don't really plan to. I may be closed minded in this sense, but hey, I don't have to watch/try everything.

[ThePhantasm]

Meh, I'm still sticking to my opinion. Back stories and character development are important - very important - but again, reiterating myself, does this have to be an entire series? Yeah, I know I'm just reusing my old arguments, but I think it's a matter of taste and this is something I just don't find interesting: it's not entertaining to me personally. But hey, I've never seen an episode, but still don't really plan to. I may be closed minded in this sense, but hey, I don't have to watch/try everything.

That's true, but most TV shows HAVE to be limited to backstories and development. There are budget constraints to all those special effects. Granted, Superman probably isn't best suited for a life-action TV show. He is more of a cinematic character. On that level I agree with you. But I think it is silly to argue that a series about Superman shouldn't be based on backstory etc. I mean what else could they really do?

That's true, you don't have to watch anything. I'm not trying to persuade you to watch it. I'm just saying the show has too much of a mix of stuff to be characterized as simply fantastical teenage romantic drama.

[Jerthanis]

Yes but do we need to see these and if we do does it have to be an entire series? I know backstory is important but do we as an audience have to see them all? Not to mention all the things you just describe can come off as being trite and cliche. These elements are all very tragic and have depth, but is that why Superman is iconic, heroic, and memorable? Just because these work for some characters doesn't mean they work for all characters. Take fore example losing a parent at a young age: how many times in comics have that been used? Obviously I never read the comics and am not familiar with most of the films or TV shows, but I thought Superman's parents were alive when he was an adult (and I'm talking about his adopted parents the Kents, not his birth parents as they and their entire planet are kind of gone).

So... since you haven't seen Smallville, and you also haven't read the comics, is your question, "...is that why Superman is iconic, heroic, and memorable?" an honest question? I mean, since you have no reason to claim expertise, I might as well answer.

First of all, Johnathan and Martha Kent DID die between his Smallville roots and working for the Daily Planet before the 1986 reboot by John Byrne. So when the Superboy continuity was being established in 1940, the idea of losing a parent was something the character WOULD have to deal with in the transition between being Superboy and being Superman. If the loss of a parent is in a superhero story, they'd have to cite Superman right under Batman as their inspiration for that detail.

I would say that... unequivocally yes, those elemental stories are the reason Superman is an enduring character. The mythic qualities of Superman remain interesting after almost 80 years because they speak to the archetypes of human experience. If you claim these elements are trite and cliche, it's only the words I use to describe them that you can claim that of, since that's all you've experienced. Cliche is just a derogatory word for Archetypal, and few characters in any media are as archetypal as Superman.

If you don't like stories about teenagers, I wouldn't suggest Smallville as the series to make you recant that prejudice. I simply find your reasoning suspect.


Meh, I'm still sticking to my opinion. Back stories and character development are important - very important - but again, reiterating myself, does this have to be an entire series? Yeah, I know I'm just reusing my old arguments, but I think it's a matter of taste and this is something I just don't find interesting: it's not entertaining to me personally. But hey, I've never seen an episode, but still don't really plan to. I may be closed minded in this sense, but hey, I don't have to watch/try everything.

So... in defiance of several testimonies against the claim, and with full admission that you have no knowledge to support the claim... you will continue to cleave to your assumptions about Smallville.

I don't know what to say.

So yeah... Smallville: how many of you got sick to death of the opening song? Who is your favorite character? What moment in the series pissed you off the most?

[Lord Seth]

My question is what The CW will try to do to replace Smallville. With Smallville going, my guess is that they'll move Nikita there to pair with Supernatural, as I believe both skew male in audience, plus they probably want to use the post-Vampire Diaries slot for The Secret Circle due to similarities between the series (both are based on book series by the same author and both share showrunners), so I doubt Nikita will stay in that spot next season.

[ThePhantasm]

So yeah... Smallville: how many of you got sick to death of the opening song? Who is your favorite character? What moment in the series pissed you off the most?

Yes, definitely sick to death of the song. I like though in the later seasons when they bring in the John Williams music now and again.

Favorite character is definitely Lex Luthor, with Jonathan Kent as a close second. Lana Lang was adorable in the first season and thereafter became incredibly annoying. The way they handled Jonathan Kent's death probably pissed me off the most - just the whole dying in place of Lana thing.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Who is your favorite character?

Really now? There's only one option. Doctor Virgil Swann anyone? I mean, come on. It's the real-deal-man-of-steel himself.

[Mordar]

Meh, I'm still sticking to my opinion. Back stories and character development are important - very important - but again, reiterating myself, does this have to be an entire series? Yeah, I know I'm just reusing my old arguments, but I think it's a matter of taste and this is something I just don't find interesting: it's not entertaining to me personally. But hey, I've never seen an episode, but still don't really plan to. I may be closed minded in this sense, but hey, I don't have to watch/try everything.

Ah, I think I see the issue. You view stories about a character that are not contemporaneous as backstory. Smallville is not backstory. Smallville is story. Just because it happens in the before-time doesn't lessen its value. Just because the adult Kal-El stories came first are they by definition more derserving of being a whole series?

I agree that you don't have to watch, change your mind, finish your dinner or wash behind your ears. But I think you might admit, if you're being honest, that you could read Action Comics #3 (or some other selection of old issues that you haven't read) and find it interesting, even though by my understanding of your point above, it is just "back story".

All in all, YMMV. For instance, I much preferred Kristin Kreuk to um...whats her name...the girl that plays Lois...(Durance?) and I am clearly in the minority in that regard on this board.

- M

[Jerthanis]

The way they handled Jonathan Kent's death probably pissed me off the most - just the whole dying in place of Lana thing.

That is most definitely my least favorite moment of the whole series too. Clark knowingly made his choice in full awareness of the consequences, and was only sad once those consequences hit him again.


If he hadn't known ahead of time that the choice would've had someone die, and had merely accidentally called someone away who would've otherwise saved Johnathan, then I would've thought it would've been perfectly pathos-generating, and appropriate. I would've felt bad for Clark in subsequent episodes.

Instead it was like, "Will you sacrifice someone to save someone else?" "Yes." "Oh snap, it was still someone else you love!" "Oh woe is me!"

I had to take like, three seasons to get over Clark making such a selfish, borderline evil choice.

And the worst part was that when the plot event that kicked off Johnathan's death happened again later, it didn't have the same result vis a vis Lex's reaction and ability to connect the dots in the same way.