[3.5e]Hadozee Unarmed Fighter Build, need advice/critiquing!

[MustacheFart]

Hello all,

It's actually been a long while since I've played DnD and even longer since I've posted here but some friends have managed to suck me into playing again. With that I've concocted another semi-ridiculous (perhaps full-on ridiculous) character.

Here's the basic info:

Setting: We're going to be playing through a ton of old living greyhawk pre-written adventures. Mostly involving the Divers area.

- 28 point buy (32 if I could manage to do build without a dip into high tier class...*cough*druid*cough*)
- No campaign-specific material allowed
- Only 1 flaw
- Race: Hadozee
- Starting at level 1
- Don't expect to be playing past level 16

Concept: A badarse monkey who leaps and climbs around King Kongin' everything, ie. punching and biting all enemies!

That said here's what I've got so far:

Darwin the Fist-Pumping Ape (Hadozee)

Overwhelming Attack Monk 1/Shapeshift Druid 1/Lion Totem Barbarian 1 (w/ whirling frenzy)/Ranger 3/Warshaper 3/Fist of the Forest 3/Primeval 4

Feats:
Two-Weapon Fighting/Great Fortitude (Flaw 1; retrain once ranger 2)*
Toughness (1st lvl)*
Improved Unarmed Strike (monk 1st lvl)
Power Attack (monk 1st lvl)
*Feat Slot*(3rd lvl) ~ perhaps extra rage or weapon focus(unarmed strike)?
Two-Weapon Fighting (Ranger 2)
Endurance (Ranger 3)*
Self-Sufficient(6th lvl)*
Imp. Two-Weapon Fighting (9th lvl)
*Feat Slot*(12th lvl)
*Feat Slot*(15th lvl)

*PrC pre-reqs

Special Abilities:
Glide
Rage (Whirling Frenzy)
Pounce
Predator Form (Howler Monkey is what I'm going to say it looks like)
Fast Movement +20
Feral Trance 2/day
Untamed Strike
Track
Wild Empathy
Favored Enemy (Hoomans)
Morphic Immunities
Morphic Weapons
Morphic Body
Morphic Reach
Primeval Form 2/day
Animal Empathy
Regression 1
Low-light Vision
Feral Power

Starting Stats (lvl 1):

Str: 18
Con: 14
Dex: 14 + 2 Racial = 16
Int: 8
Wis: 8
Cha: 6

Attack @ lvl 1:

Single Attack: +4 // 1d6+4* // x2
Two-Wep. Fighting: +2/+2 // 1d6+4* // x2
Flurry of Blows: +2/+2 // 1d6+4* // x2
Two-Wep. Fighting + Flurry of Blows: +0/+0/+0(LOL:smallfrown:)// 1d6+4* // x2

*+2 damage vs Hoomans

Skills:

Don't really need help here. Other than Handle Animal 5, Survival 5, and Knowledge(nature) 5 for pre-reqs, the remaining skill points will go to Jump, Climb, and Tumble.


Any thoughts? Very craptastic at 1st level. I'm worried my attack is always going to be low. I'd love to somehow get weapon focus sooner(before 3rd lvl) or find a way to get more attack.

I would've started with barbarian if it weren't for the pesky unlawful/lawful mess. It's one thing to go lawful to unlawful, I can swing that. It's another to go unlawful to lawful to unlawful.

Also please note: I will also be running a wizard summoner at the same time so, I should be able to throw out some Mighty Wallops & Greater Mighty Wallops as well as Magic Weapon and Greater Magic Weapon.

All help is appreciated!

Thanks,

~MustacheFart

[MustacheFart]

*bump*

So many views but not one reply :-(.

-MustacheFart

[Tvtyrant]

It looks like it would work, but I question the value of it when compared to a Totemist or Druid which grant you most of the same abilities but better. What in particular do you feel your build does well?

[Toliudar]

It's a lot to take in - it seems like a very complex build for a fairly simple concept.

If you're not taking the druid level for spells, you might consider going with the wildshape variant ranger instead. Also, different DM's have some very different interpretations of the interaction of natural weapons and a monk's flurry, so making sure that you two are on the same page will be integral to this build.

I guess my main thought would be that this seems like a joke build - an attempt to reproduce Kong in D&D. Which is fine for a few battles, but may be unsatisfying if you're playing levels 1-16. Especially at the early levels, where you're kind of going to suck.

Also, my hunch is that going straight psychic warrior, to be able to add expansion to the list, may do a better job of simulating the "giant ape smash!" aspect of the build, and would certainly do it earlier.

[Keld Denar]

What do you really gain from Shapeshifter Drood there? It seems like a lost BAB to me. I'd say grab a 2nd level of Monk, a 2nd level of Barb, or something. I assume you'll be spending most of your time in your Primeval form which should supercede your Shapeshifter Drood form.

You have a bit of redundancy too. Don't Hadozee already get a bite attack? So Feral Trance is kinda wasted in that respect. FotF is still great for the Con to AC and the UAS damage, but it kinda sucks that. Still, you might want to consider replacing it or something with Frostrager? That'll give you decent UAS damage as well, along with a pseudo-Flurry ability and REND for more free damage.

[FMArthur]

I must question the necessity of a build at all. Being a big angry ape who hits things with his bare hands is pretty much the normal description of a regular gorilla in D&D. To that end, its abilities only really come together to emphasize those fairly boring abilities. This should be a sideshow to another character, which is so easily accomplished via an Animal Companion. A Druid-buffed Animal Companion is going to be nearly as formidable as this anyway, with more interesting things to do on top of that.

[kiergon]

Make it a totemist...
I played as a hadozee totemist, and it was the most fun Ive had as a player.
you can do all sorts of shenanigans as a totemist, plus you are way more effective and, although I didnt do it, you can multiclass with barbarian to go into a Totem Rager, which I heard is sick.
and Hadozee are billions of times better than gorillas, they are monkeys with peoples clothes, that in my book makes them the best race in the game.

[FMArthur]

Not saying it's bad to play an ape. A civilized ape is actually fairly interesting. But if you pick the main humanoid ape race just to act like a regular Int 2 gorilla, it just seems like a waste.

[MustacheFart]

Not saying it's bad to play an ape. A civilized ape is actually fairly interesting. But if you pick the main humanoid ape race just to act like a regular Int 2 gorilla, it just seems like a waste.

I'm sorry I did not realize that I had stated anywhere in my previous posts that my intent is to role-play a standard int 2 gorilla. In no way is my method of attack indicative of the various personality traits that could potentially make him uncivilized. Because we all know humans never resort to fisticuffs! I'm sorry you made that assumption but you know what they say about assuming.

In truth my character is very much civilized, having been raised from a very young age by a prominent trader, whom not only taught him all the in's and out's of the business but to utilize his own natural gifts to further his ambition. I could go on...if I needed to. The only real joke lies in the concept in that I wanted to play on and blur the concept of evolution.

Now in response to the other feedback I've received: I'd like to avoid psionics all-together. I'm not sure it's forbidden in the game but I'd rather steer clear of it. Sorry I should've mentioned that. So that throws out psychic warrior. I will look into totemist. Frost utilization isn't really in the concept so I'm not feeling frost rager.

The reason for the one level of shapeshifter variant druid was purely to get into warshaper as soon as possible. Both the wildshape variant ranger and normal Druid require a 5 level investment before I get shape-changing to qualify for warshaper. The Druid variant does it in 1, opening up the possibility of picking up rage, pounce, favored enemy, and extra attack (barb & ranger).

-MustacheFart

[Toliudar]

Well, evolution isn't in any way a given in a D&D world, and as you've pointed out, this build is likely to be frustratingly ineffectual at lower levels (I'm finding it difficult to picture how well it'll work in the upper range of levels, but given that it's a non-caster, and even more optimized builds get shut at those levels, I suspect that your problem's only going to get worse.

If you take 5 levels of the wildshape ranger instead of 1 level of druid and 3 levels of ranger, your BAB goes up. Plus, you get a (weak) animal companion and a second favoured enemy (I'm not sure in what way favoured enemy is part of your concept, but you listed it). Maybe you can get a baboon animal companion? You can still enter Warshaper at level 7, if you put off the level of barbarian. And you go up from 28 to 32 point buy.

[MustacheFart]

My suspicions are exactly the same as yours. As for the favored enemy, I was simply trying to boost my pathetically low attack bonus given that I know humans will make up the majority of the enemies in the game.

Really I just want a strong unarmed melee combatant ape that doesn't rely on casting (atleast not by himself), psionics, or book of the nine swords material. I'm beginning to think it's not even possible!

-MustacheFart

[MeeposFire]

favored enemy normally only improves damage not attack bonus.

[Coidzor]

^: I think there might be a feat or some way it can be used to get attack bonus, but it's not really that worth it. ...Probably better off with Knowledge Devotion anyway even if you could get it to attack as well as damage... Though a barbarian or Totemist wouldn't really be able to afford the ranks necessary for it. Hmm... Unless you're really that limited to humanoid opponents, in which case Knowledge: Local would get you a +1-+5 against your enemies on both attack and damage.

Hmm. Totemist+ Spirit Lion Totem Whirling Frenzy Barbarian => Totem Rager PrC... And since you'll be Unarmed Striking anyway, the extra main weapon attack's not gonna go to waste and you'll have pounce.

Incarnum can still go well even if you only take a little bit of it though... So that leaves some things like Fist of the Forest on the table.

If LA buy-off & tweaking things for home-games is allowed, you might see if you can be a Divine Minion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a) or if tweaking isn't but the stuff is, be a Divine Minion of Thoth and be happy with a Baboon combat form and flight from the hawk at-will.

Has the disadvantages of being an outsider though...

...What are your available sources anyway?

[Master_Rahl22]

Really I just want a strong unarmed melee combatant ape that doesn't rely on casting (atleast not by himself), psionics, or book of the nine swords material. I'm beginning to think it's not even possible!

-MustacheFart

Superior Unarmed Strike and Snap Kick are two of the best unarmed feats and both exist in ToB. The first adds 4 to your effective Monk level for unarmed damage, and the second lets you make an additional attack any time you make an attack. In fact you can make an effective unarmed fighting character without any levels of Monk or Unarmed Swordsage with those two feats.

I'll third or fourth the Totemist suggestion. If you want to fight unarmed/with natural weapons that's the way to go. Totem Rager is fun if you want less Soulmelds (options) and more damage.