[3.5e] Melee bard?

[Kaeso]

The title says it all, can you guys recommend me a good melee bard build? What feats, spells, skills, stats etc. should this bard have?

Should it multiclass or not? What about prestige classes? Are these bardsader and/or bardblade builds worth it, or is a single classed melee bard just as good, or better?

[Mordokai]

Snowflake Wardance from Frostburn seems like an obvious choice.

[Greenish]

Bard/ToB is better melee. Pure bard is better bard.

[Tvtyrant]

Snowflake Wardance + Sublime Chord and then take a bunch of self buffs seems the obvious choice.

[Kaeso]

Snowflake Wardance + Sublime Chord and then take a bunch of self buffs seems the obvious choice.

are self buffs alone enough to put them on par with most melee types?

[Jarian]

are self buffs alone enough to put them on par with most melee types?

If all you use your spells (ninth level spells!) for is buffing yourself, you can make any other melee class cry itself to sleep even if you're a wizard. So, yes.

[Tvtyrant]

Mirror Image, Greater Invisibility, Greater Heroism, Irresistable Dance are all Bard spells from core. Outside core and adding Wizard spells yeah I think so.

[Kaeso]

If all you use your spells (ninth level spells!) for is buffing yourself, you can make any other melee class cry itself to sleep even if you're a wizard. So, yes.

Should a bard like this focus his stats on melee? like cha > str> con?

[Zaq]

CHA > STR > CON is viable, sure.

Killoren, from Races of the Wild, make good melee bards, primarily for the free smite. You can add CHA to your attack rolls rather a few times over at relatively low levels. (They also qualify for Charming the Arrow, but that's ranged, not melee.)

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

It depends on what level you're starting at, and what level you think you'll reach. Something involving Bard 4/ Warblade and ending with Jade Phoenix Mage and/or Swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327) would be decent for up to the mid-levels. Something like Bard 8/ Warblade or Crusader 1/ Mindbender 1/ Sublime Chord 1/ Incantatrix 4/ Abjurant Champion 5 would be more for a game expecting to get into the epic levels.

[ArcanistSupreme]

Dragonfire Inspiration is also nice if you can spare the feats/have the right subtype.

[Tyger]

Depending on your sources, there are a number of magic items that can help you out here.

Crystal Echoblades from the MiC add 1/2 your bard level in sonic damage.

Slippers of Battledancing from the DMGII can let you ignore STR, as they allow you to use your CHA in place of STR or DEX for to hit and damage rolls.

Bracers of the Heartfelt Blows from Dragon Compendium adds your CHA in fire damage to all attacks.

Combine Dragonfire Inspiration with the above, toss in a Snowflake Wardance and you are doing a boat load of damage, with high to-hit bonuses, all based off your single stat of Charisma. Its one of the times that two-weapon fighting actually works - when you are getting damage rolls (at level 20) of 1d6 (base weapon) +10 (sonic) +10 (CHA) +10 fire + 10d6 (element of your choice)... without any real obscene optimization. :)

TL:DR version: Bards can be made into pretty decent melee combatants, and doing so doesn't require that they lose the rest of their awesomeness.

[gorfnab]

Bard 8/ Paladin of Freedom 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Sacred Exorcist 3
Bard 6/ Crusader 2/ Jade Phoenix Mage 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Jade Phoenix Mage 8

[MeeposFire]

Con is by far more important to a bard than str. Bards have lots of ways to give themselves bonuses to attack and damage (hello song of courage and spells) but mass number of hit points are not as easy (especially real HP). Cha is important if you are going to use spells a lot (which is the standard). So assuming a heavy spellcasting focus on making you better for melee cha-con-whatever is probably best. Str is mostly just for feats, dex is for feats (AC bonus is needed only for early game), wisdom is good for words of creation and a few other feats, and int is great for skills and feats (my fave by far).

[Aemoh87]

Just go the inspiration build and pick cha to attack and damage. Then pick spells to help in melee. You will be very bardy and be dominant in melee. Combine with another melee party member for pure amazingness.

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

What do you know. More incentive for me to finish the skills on the Melee Bard that I just made...

The PRCs War Chanter from Complete Warrior and Warrior Skald from Races of Faerun (IIRC) are bardic music progressing classes that full BAB and a slew of good effects. Those two mix well for a fear melee build (the type I have been working on). I will post the build as soon as it is done.

[Treblain]

Dip cloistered cleric for Knowledge Devotion and Divine Might for higher damage, Travel Devotion for mobility, and Charm Domain for a bonus to CHA once per day. Pretty good for one level and a feat.

[Noneoyabizzness]

Still enjoyed clap of thunder.
Bard8/fighter1/spellsword1/warrior skald 10 worked nice for me.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Dragonfire Inspiration is also nice if you can spare the feats/have the right subtype.

I cannot recommend this enough. Hell, even in its default form, as long as you aren't up against devils or some form of red dragon, you should easily be able to punch through your opponents fire resistance. And, worst case scenario, you're still just rocking inspire courage, netting you around +4 to-hit and damage against things that are fire-immune around level 6-ish.

[Aemoh87]

I cannot recommend this enough. Hell, even in its default form, as long as you aren't up against devils or some form of red dragon, you should easily be able to punch through your opponents fire resistance. And, worst case scenario, you're still just rocking inspire courage, netting you around +4 to-hit and damage against things that are fire-immune around level 6-ish.

This brings a question to mind that i have had for a while... anyone know of a way to switch the damage type?

[dgnslyr]

Boosting Inspire Courage helps with Dragonfire Inspiration or even just vanilla Inspire Courage. There's a handful of items that will boost your Inspire Courage significantly, but I can't remember them right now. :smallfrown:

[Amnestic]

This brings a question to mind that i have had for a while... anyone know of a way to switch the damage type?

Draconic Heritage feat, which you qualify for with the Dragontouched feat or one level of Sorcerer, so you can either a) Dip Sorcerer, b) Dip Dragonfire Adept or c) Blow a feat on Dragontouched.

I've seen the rule that Silverbrow Humans - having Silver dragon blood in their veins - have their Dragonfire Inspiration automatically be Cold damage, but I'm 99% sure that's a houserule.

[Aemoh87]

Boosting Inspire Courage helps with Dragonfire Inspiration or even just vanilla Inspire Courage. There's a handful of items that will boost your Inspire Courage significantly, but I can't remember them right now. :smallfrown:

It would amaze me if there wasn't a handbook on this. I would argue that this is my favorite build to see played as a DM.

[Bang!]

It would amaze me if there wasn't a handbook on this.[insert total lack of amazement here] (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9830.0)

[Talya]

If all you use your spells (ninth level spells!) for is buffing yourself, you can make any other melee class cry itself to sleep even if you're a wizard. So, yes.

Shapechange alone does this.

6th level Tenser's Transformation is decent much, much earlier.

[Coidzor]

Shapechange alone does this.

6th level Tenser's Transformation is decent much, much earlier.

Eh, doesn't really provide the other stuff one needs to be a beatstick (Class features + feats dedicated to the role) and strips you of the ability to give yourself further advantage as necessary. Not really seeing it.

[Talya]

Eh, doesn't really provide the other stuff one needs to be a beatstick (Class features + feats dedicated to the role) and strips you of the ability to give yourself further advantage as necessary. Not really seeing it.

actually, it doesn't strip you of anything much as a bard. Sure, you lose access to the ability to destroy your enemy with spells from sublime chord, but you keep your bardsong, snowflake wardance bonus, and the extra sonic damage from those nifty little crystal echoblades every melee bard should buy, cheap as they are.

[Coidzor]

actually, it doesn't strip you of anything much as a bard. Sure, you lose access to the ability to destroy your enemy with spells from sublime chord, but you keep your bardsong, snowflake wardance bonus, and the extra sonic damage from those nifty little crystal echoblades every melee bard should buy, cheap as they are.

Well, I did say further advantages. Still, good to know it doesn't mess with Bardsong.... What section of the MIC are those things in? And are they alphabetized as "E" for echoblades or "C" for crystal?

And the originating comment we were playing off of was about a wizard doing it so just being a fighter without fighter feats is generally considered a good way to end up as ...what's the kind of salsa that's not chunky anymore called anyway?

[Greenish]

What section of the MIC are those things in? And are they alphabetized as "E" for echoblades or "C" for crystal?Specific weapons, C.

[Coidzor]

Specific weapons, C.

Thank you.