Epic Help

[Crazy Cupcake]

I'm joining an epic-level game where the characters have reached a level of divinity but have not yet realized it. We have access to most of the official sourcebooks, are level 40, and are allowed one race with the Paragon template.

Pretty crazy, I know. But it's the kind of crazy I'd like to try at least once in my life. My goal is to create the archetypical knight-in-shining armor. He'll be a Lawful Good character with a focus on melee combat with a sword and shield, and a thing for protecting the weak and all that hullabaloo.

The problem is, I've never created an epic character before, let alone one with divine powers. Heck, I've never even been in a game past level 15 or so. Naturally, I was hoping you guys could help me out some!

There are a few things I'd like to do. First, I'd love to use at least one of the core classes from the Tome of Battle. The Crusader seems like a natural choice, but Warblade has some interesting appeal as well. I'm also really interested in having a lot of feats to work with and using some of the epic magic items like a shield of great reflection and bracers of relentless might. The former seems particularly fitting for this type of character as it reflects any spell cast at him back upon its casters unless he voluntarily lowers his guard. The latter boosts his Size category by two levels for purposes of things like grappling, tripping, and the like.

I know I won't be able to match the damage output of other character types, but I'm okay with that. I'd be just as happy having a lot of battlefield control. Being able to take a ton of punishment is also a high priority. I also wouldn't mind going with a Fighter or Paladin, but the latter in particular has never really done anything for me as a player. I'd rather be "awful good" as a personal choice, not because I'll be punished if I'm not.

Anyway, with all that said, do you guys have any tips, ideas, or suggestions for me? Anything I should look up? Any pitfalls I need to avoid? Any special tactics that could help against the crazy powerful Wizards and Planar Shepherds out there? :D

[Aharon]

At that level, you have 13600000 gp to spend. Use them wisely, and you can do anything you want to. The two items you cited don't have such a good cost-benefit ratio, you would blow almost half your WBL, 5604000 gp, on them. For that kind of money, you can get tremendous amounts of useful non-epic items.

Battlefield Control as a mundane character isn't as easy as for casters. At the levels you are talking about, you might not be as effective as you wish to be in that role.

Before the game, your group should also sit down together and decide at what level of optimization you want to play. Some posters will follow and point out incredibly powerful tactics casters have access to at that level. They are right, and if your opponents and group-mates use these tactics, you will feel overshadowed no matter what you do.

If you don't mind using magic yourself, taking one of the caster hybrid options in the ToB, like the Ruby Knight Vindicator, might level the playing field if your group decides it wants to use all these tricks.

If you decide on a power level more in line with what the designers envisioned, you should probably ban some of the more abusive stuff - gate, shapechange, soul trap, for example.

[Bakkan]

Find out if the game will be using the epic spellcasting rules from the Epic Level Handbook (also in the SRD). If so, you will want to have 9th-level casting in order to take advantage of spic spellcasting and not be left behind. Cleric is the obvious and strongest choice, but make sure that you get at least a +16 BAB by level 20 so you get all 4 iterative attacks. Ruby Knight Vindicator from Time of Battle is a very strong Prestige class, you may ask your DM if he'd be willing to alter the deity requirement (it currently requires worshiping Wee Jas, who is Lawful Neutral IIRC).

[Crazy Cupcake]

I remember hearing the GM say that they were going to allow Epic Maneuvers in the same vein as Epic Spellcasting. I'm not sure of any of the details of that, however, but I'd love to hear any ideas regarding those as well.

And are there really better alternatives to the shield of great reflections? I mean, a guaranteed reflection of any spell cast at my character seems pretty darn nice. Not only will it save me from even having to bother with a saving throw, but it means those epic spells I may be going up again will turn around and bite their casters in the butt.

Oh, also, I was considering using the Item Familiar feat with my shield since it's clearly going to be a major focus for my character. I know I'll have to put together a bunch of safeguards for it and whatnot, but I think that'll help bring down some of the cost of the aforementioned shield ability, no?

[Aharon]

Epic Maneuvers would be homebrew or 3rd party, no such thing exists in WoTC publications, to my knowledge.

One less expensive way would be getting the half-golem template. It gives the old magic immunity, not the infinite SR kind. It has the downside of making buffs more difficult, though. You might go
Crusader X/Cleric X/Ruby Knight Vindicator X/Dweomerkeeper 10 to buff yourself with supernatural spells, which the template doesn't bestow immunity against.

A less cheesy way to get some amount of protection are spellblade weapons. Spellblade is a weapon enhancement that adds 6000 gp to the weapons price and gives a kind of spell reflection for a specific spell. Get a double-weapon and use one side two-handed, a buckler, and armor with armor spikes, and you get spell reflection to 4 spells for 24000 gp.
If shapechange etc. are used, change yourself into something with lot's of arms, say, a marilith. Fight with 3 double-weapons, and you get spell reflection to 6 spells for 36000 gp. Granted, it's not the alround protection the shield would offer, but not every spell is equally dangerous, and rooting out the greatest dangers for tremendously less money is quite a good deal.

[pyroman]

This may or may not apply to a tank (depends on optimization), but at those CRs I've noticed a lot of monsters are immune to crits, so making a character that relies on that (keen weapon, improved critical, ect.) may not be a good idea.

[SurlySeraph]

I know I won't be able to match the damage output of other character types, but I'm okay with that. I'd be just as happy having a lot of battlefield control. Being able to take a ton of punishment is also a high priority. I also wouldn't mind going with a Fighter or Paladin, but the latter in particular has never really done anything for me as a player. I'd rather be "awful good" as a personal choice, not because I'll be punished if I'm not.

Oh, you can definitely match their damage output. The easy way is charging with Shock Trooper or another means of keeping your attack bonus high + a bunch of things that multiple your damage, such as Leap Attack and the Valorous weapon enhancement. And it's actually worthwhile, because at epic levels many enemies have ludicrous spell resistance, and the people playing the casters may not be sufficiently prepared to get through it.

I'd recommend taking a look at the X stat to Y bonus (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871590/X_stat_to_Y_bonus) and Lists of Stuff (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871954/Lists_of_Stuff) threads for useful thoughts on character building.

A purely non-casting character is going to have a lot of trouble at ECL 40. I'd strongly advise going Ruby Knight Vindicator.

Do you want to be invincible? Scroll down to JeminiZero's post, and to my post. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176092)

[Gabe the Bard]

How about a Warblade 20/Kensai 20? If your DM will let you start with a +20 epic signature weapon, you could add a lot of options to it and save around 8,000,000 gp.

[Wings of Peace]

Something about the Cleric (or at least Ruby Knight Vindicator) route I would like to point out, Divine Power states that your BaB becomes "equal to your character level" not equivalent to a character your level. :smallamused:

[Doc Roc]

Before the game, your group should also sit down together and decide at what level of optimization you want to play. Some posters will follow and point out incredibly powerful tactics casters have access to at that level. They are right, and if your opponents and group-mates use these tactics, you will feel overshadowed no matter what you do.


This, please, god, this.


How about a Warblade 20/Kensai 20? If your DM will let you start with a +20 epic signature weapon, you could add a lot of options to it and save around 8,000,000 gp.

Except that your +20 weapon will be exactly as terrible as any other +20 weapon. Which is to say, a quite lovely mantle decoration.