Tucker's (Anything)

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Hey, I'm looking for stories or ideas for encounters similar to Tucker's Kobolds (i.e., enemies that pose a serious threat to the party through intelligent play rather than being a high CR). Doesn't have to be Kobold's, doesn't even have to be low-level creatures at all, just ones that threaten at well above their CR.

Looking for ideas that may be outside of the traditional "They're in dungeon X, you go there to try to kill them, they try to kill you right back" framework- maybe nasty (but hopefully fun) ambushes that could be pulled on a resting party, assassination attempts, anything to mix things up from the standard formula.

Also, any sort of nice information-gathering or early-warning stuffs on the part of the enemies would also be appreciated- I figure the best threats are those specifically prepared for the party, but it's more fair if the enemies actually have to do the research themselves (Rather than just, say, know that the sorcerer lacks sonic damage because the DM got to read his character sheet).

Oh, and Happy Easter!

[Yora]

Anything incorporeal that attacks the PCs feet through the floor. Unless they can put a forcecage around them, there's really nothing they can do except teleporting away.

[kestrel404]

I once set the party against a highly intelligent warlock-lich. He used zombies and skeletons to devastating effect, taking several of the corpsecrafter feats (including the cold damage and explosive minions powers).

The general idea is to create a field of corpses by sending a small contingent of skeletal lions (or anything else with a high movement speed) into a village or town. As minions kill townsfolk, the (invisible) lich would raise them, and then suicide them to create more corpses.

Do this to a village that the heroes are travelling to (by design or by accident) and suddenly you've got a serious supply of corpses. Destroy party through attrition. Any extra corpses are carried home to fill the moat.

Yes, he kept a moat full of corpses instead of water, it was ridiculously effective, and living creatures within a MILE of the castle had to start saving against various non-magical diseases while making fort saves against nausea. The closer to the castle, the more often they needed to save.

[awa]

Be carefully a lot of these tucker kobold idea rely on the dm just saying and then you get ambushed nothing you can do about it look how smart i am.

In more detail the dangers that can annoy pcs are.
1 Not giving them treasure or exp they successfully over come the kobold death trap but at the end discover that the kobolds had expended thousands of gold worth of consumables in the fight and have nothing left for the pcs to fight and you gave them xp for regular kobolds with appropriate bonus for their increased danger.

2 second unavoidable ambushes most tuckers kobold ambushes just assume the party gets ambushed but some pcs have incredible spot and listen checks or other advanced sensory abilities like blind sight not letting pcs use those can be frustrating.

3 some pcs want realistic encounters a giant death trap which nobody every leaves and the entire population is sitting their with readied actions and somehow knows exactly what the pcs can and cant do cant strain suspension of disbelief.

also i don't think humans can smell anything from a mile away no matter how bad it smells. and non magical diseases have a really low fort save and beyond that just being near the area wouldn't be able to infect you would have to eat or drink contaminated things, or get contamination in open wounds. Heck even in dnd a dog can only smell something 120 feet away and that's assuming hes downwind.

[LOTRfan]

Bears can smell things from 2-3 miles away in real life, so I doubt that the really strong stench being smelled a mile away is stretching it too much.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Be carefully a lot of these tucker kobold idea rely on the dm just saying and then you get ambushed nothing you can do about it look how smart i am.

In more detail the dangers that can annoy pcs are.
1 Not giving them treasure or exp they successfully over come the kobold death trap but at the end discover that the kobolds had expended thousands of gold worth of consumables in the fight and have nothing left for the pcs to fight and you gave them xp for regular kobolds with appropriate bonus for their increased danger.

2 second unavoidable ambushes most tuckers kobold ambushes just assume the party gets ambushed but some pcs have incredible spot and listen checks or other advanced sensory abilities like blind sight not letting pcs use those can be frustrating.

3 some pcs want realistic encounters a giant death trap which nobody every leaves and the entire population is sitting their with readied actions and somehow knows exactly what the pcs can and cant do cant strain suspension of disbelief.

also i don't think humans can smell anything from a mile away no matter how bad it smells. and non magical diseases have a really low fort save and beyond that just being near the area wouldn't be able to infect you would have to eat or drink contaminated things, or get contamination in open wounds. Heck even in dnd a dog can only smell something 120 feet away and that's assuming hes downwind.

Were I DMing these things, I would give bonus XP for beating or surviving an exceptionally difficult fight, even if it was against low-CR base creatures.

As for the rest of it, one of the reasons I listed "Spying / Early Warning" on the part of the enemies was precisely to avoid that ambush-by-DM-fiat thing; if such is successful, the enemies get a solid idea of when the party is approaching and what their strengths and weaknesses are, and can set up a well-planned ambush. If the party is stealthier and takes steps to bypass early-warning systems, they may be able to catch the same group of enemies unprepared and have a much easier fight of it.

Edit: As for the smell thing... I'm quite certain that I can smell things from a mile away, when the things in question are pulp mills, and I know that meat-packing plants can stink up their entire town to the point where it makes everyone feel sick- I wouldn't say that a mile radius around a permanent moat of corpses is unreasonable.

[subject42]

A while back I was running a game where the party pretty much visited genocide on a goblin village. On the way in, they charmed the village's shaman to let them in without a fight. He said to kill the chief if you have to, but otherwise leave everyone else alone.

Obviously, it didn't work that way.

In response, the shaman went down into the deepest dungeon and rounded up a party of criminal psychopaths (even for goblins) and, in a series of guerrilla skirmishes, pointed them at the PC party.

I always gave the players a chance to track and make spot checks, but when the opposing party has had a rat following your movements for three days, they can be pretty prepared.

Tricks I used:


Animal companions make great scouts.
Hiring commoners in an urban setting to act as spies is cheap.
Wild shape and alter self make for great ambush tools.
The enemy needs to retreat when things get bad.
Play to the enemy race's advantages. If you're a goblin druid and ranger, fight at night in the woods, not in broad daylight on the road.
Counterspell, counterspell, counterspell.
Always try to attack at night, since the PCs have to sleep sooner or later.
Always give the PCs a chance to plan, and always give them a chance to catch wind of what's going on with some warning, assuming they're prepared.



Also, Awa, you can smell a modern paper mill from three counties away when the wind is right.

[awa]

if you have done so personally i yield to your superior knowledge.

[Jack_Simth]

Anything incorporeal that attacks the PCs feet through the floor. Unless they can put a forcecage around them, there's really nothing they can do except teleporting away.
This is explicitly not true in D&D 3.5 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#incorporealSubtype):
An incorporeal creature can enter or pass through solid objects, but must remain adjacent to the object’s exterior, and so cannot pass entirely through an object whose space is larger than its own. It can sense the presence of creatures or objects within a square adjacent to its current location, but enemies have total concealment (50% miss chance) from an incorporeal creature that is inside an object. In order to see farther from the object it is in and attack normally, the incorporeal creature must emerge. An incorporeal creature inside an object has total cover, but when it attacks a creature outside the object it only has cover, so a creature outside with a readied action could strike at it as it attacks. An incorporeal creature cannot pass through a force effect.(Emphasis added)

Now, granted, the incorporeal critter gets some hefty bonuses, but it's not indestructible.

[raitalin]

Paper mills are bad enough, ever been near a rendering plant? That more than likely smells better than a moat of rotting corpses.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

A while back I was running a game where the party pretty much visited genocide on a goblin village. On the way in, they charmed the village's shaman to let them in without a fight. He said to kill the chief if you have to, but otherwise leave everyone else alone.

Obviously, it didn't work that way.

In response, the shaman went down into the deepest dungeon and rounded up a party of criminal psychopaths (even for goblins) and, in a series of guerrilla skirmishes, pointed them at the PC party.

I always gave the players a chance to track and make spot checks, but when the opposing party has had a rat following your movements for three days, they can be pretty prepared.

Tricks I used:


Animal companions make great scouts.
Hiring commoners in an urban setting to act as spies is cheap.
Wild shape and alter self make for great ambush tools.
The enemy needs to retreat when things get bad.
Play to the enemy race's advantages. If you're a goblin druid and ranger, fight at night in the woods, not in broad daylight on the road.
Counterspell, counterspell, counterspell.
Always try to attack at night, since the PCs have to sleep sooner or later.
Always give the PCs a chance to plan, and always give them a chance to catch wind of what's going on with some warning, assuming they're prepared.



Also, Awa, you can smell a modern paper mill from three counties away when the wind is right.

One of the things I've considered is how much potential for abuse there is in the first-level druid and ranger spells- depending on the local terrain, Charm Animal and Speak with Animals may give you a massive range of spying and harassing options. At the very least eagles can scout their position and movement for hours per level (and report back to you if, say, they get into a difficult fight end exhaust spells). Beyond that, you might be able to get crows, monkies or rats to try to pilfer the parties supplies (they're all inclined to thieving anyway), or hell, just tell a nest of ferrets to poop in their food for fort saves vs. disease.

None of that is hugely damaging (unless your charmed monkey makes off with the wizard's spellbook), but it's quite a bit of power using just level 1 spells.

[FMArthur]

As I DM, I've sort of come to a system where monsters getting to fight under favorable circumstances merits a +1 CR (ambushes, midnight attacks, ship-to-ship battles with PCs who have no seafaring abilities whatsoever, etc). Monsters getting to fight under precisely optimal circumstances merits +2 CR, at least.

And I haven't come up with a CR adjustment for this, but my group generally optimizes up to about a tier 4's ordinary performance. Thus, when I build a fairly heavily-optimized NPC, they are usually performing well above their normal CR.

Basically all I am saying is that a challenge is not made appropriate only based on the level and quantity of the critters in the combat encounters within it. A challenge made up of all sorts of escalating factors and advantages is destined for disaster when you don't take any of them into account in determining whether it's appropriate for the PCs.

There's no shame in losing to the master summoner / BFC Wizard when you were dumped into the lava-pit-arena to fight him during your sleep after two days of cleric-less Stirge and Vampire battles.

[Toliudar]

Jermlaine, with their tiny size, great spot checks and demeanour, are about as good as kobolds at doing Tuckers strategies.

Ethereal filchers, especially with a level or two of rogue, can do a lovely job of guerilla tactics.

If the PC's don't have reliable access to flying, any kind of vertical reorganization of a gauntlet tends to work to the opponents' advantage. While the PC's are forced to maneuver as best they can, opponents with climb speeds, flying, etc can harry and disappear.

[ArcanistSupreme]

This is explicitly not true in D&D 3.5 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#incorporealSubtype):(Emphasis added)

Now, granted, the incorporeal critter gets some hefty bonuses, but it's not indestructible.

A spring-attacking ghost doesn't have to attack every round; it can wait minutes or even hours between assaults, making readied actions impractical. A smart ghost could also wait until the party was engaged with other fores before jumping on them.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

I'm considering something where the enemy force (overwhelmingly low level) keeps a few mid or high-level utility wizards in reserve- the party doesn't have to fight them until they've leveled up (if low level), or would slaughter them easily in a fight (if high level), but the wizards are primarily engaged with giving control and utility benefits to whichever side they're working with.

So, you wander in a dungeon with a nice, clear open path behind you- until the ambush hits, at which point your retreat runs into a number of stone-shaped walls that weren't there a moment ago.

[Volos]

Doppelgangers. I've used these to lure PCs into a false sense of security during RP sessions that were focused more on roleplay rather than rollplay. Being able to read an opponent's mind, high bluff/disguise, and the ability to become whomever they wish? Yeah, the perfect spy. Once all it took was a single Doppelganger NPC to bring the players to their knees. Just as they were about to give up, the wizard went off to get hismelf some permanent true sight. The fun didn't end there, as the players had to try to convince others that the Doppelganger was a spy. As it stood, they had to be peace bonded within the city and the Doppelganger could get away before they could effectively catch him or kill him. It ended with the players 'unmasking' the Doppelganger by casting true seeing on the king. Which nearly got the wizard beheaded by the royal guards. :smallwink:

[Coidzor]

A spring-attacking ghost doesn't have to attack every round; it can wait minutes or even hours between assaults, making readied actions impractical. A smart ghost could also wait until the party was engaged with other fores before jumping on them.

At which point the DM rolls a save versus having his players getting bored and annoyed if you draw it out that long.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

At which point the DM rolls a save versus having his players getting bored and annoyed if you draw it out that long.

Maaybe... but I could see that you could do that correctly, especially if the ghosts attack did anything other than HP damage. I wouldn't call it boring to have them know they were being stalked, and the ghost making appearances in the middle of other fights.

[Greenish]

Anything incorporeal that attacks the PCs feet through the floor. Unless they can put a forcecage around them, there's really nothing they can do except teleporting away.Ghost Touch (or [Force] tagged) Brilliant Energy weapons?

[ArcanistSupreme]

At which point the DM rolls a save versus having his players getting bored and annoyed if you draw it out that long.

I disagree. It's a normal dungeon crawl, but with a ghost that could pop out at any second and slowly wear down your hitpoints/ability scores. That hardly sounds boring to me.

[GreyMantle]

I disagree. It's a normal dungeon crawl, but with a ghost that could pop out at any second and slowly wear down your hitpoints/ability scores. That hardly sounds boring to me.

Treated like this, the ghost would basically be a series of single attacks. And single attacks, as the trap design of 3.x shows, do not memorable stories make.

The solution to this would honestly be just to make sure the PCs know why this ghost is stalking them. Honestly, try to do "the Alma Effect."

And have points where the ghost appears to slip and leaves itself in the open but can always escape before it's defeated. Also have spots where the ghost cannot follow them, a la Tremors or Halflife 2.

Even then, the DM would have to take care to fluff up the spirit's stalkings in such a way that they're exciting and not tedious and unpreventable.

[ArcanistSupreme]

Treated like this, the ghost would basically be a series of single attacks. And single attacks, as the trap design of 3.x shows, do not memorable stories make.

The solution to this would honestly be just to make sure the PCs know why this ghost is stalking them. Honestly, try to do "the Alma Effect."

And have points where the ghost appears to slip and leaves itself in the open but can always escape before it's defeated. Also have spots where the ghost cannot follow them, a la Tremors or Halflife 2.

Even then, the DM would have to take care to fluff up the spirit's stalkings in such a way that they're exciting and not tedious and unpreventable.

I don't know about you, but a ghost with draining touch that did this would scare the pants off of a lot of mid to low level adventuring parties. Sure, you have plenty of hitpoints that can be easily healed, but even with cleric or something similar the players are going to have a rough go of things if the ghost is persistently wearing down their weak scores.

EDIT: And even if they kill it, it will just respawn in a few days to start all over. If the party can't get rid of the ghost permanently or get out soon (often not possible in extended dungeon crawls), they'll be in serious trouble before long.

[Darthteej]

Pit them up against a vampire, and DON'T cheat. It's ECL is on par with the players, but it's unbelievably vulnerable if you manage to pin him in combat.

So don't let them find pin it down.

Charm the local populace into attacking. Primary class is rouge to take advantage of diplomacy and use magic device. Every night the players sleep send out creatures of the night to make their lives hell. He's constantly on the move, and any freaks of luck will be negated by gaseous form.

Eventually, kidnap one of the characters: it's not that hard when you have triphacking wolves and a bunch of burley henchmen who have been turned against the players. Utilize sending scrolls to constantly harass them, and then have the locations where both parties meet be dead ends or ambushes.

Anytime they meet him in combat he is surrounded by newly created vampire spawn and any creatures he didn't summon to track you down. He always has set up an exit and traps to take the party down.

And it's up to your players to beat him. All it takes is one lucky hit...right?

[awa]

a ghost attacking like that seems more frustrating then scary. (sure characters might be scared but players are more likely to be annoyed)

[NineThePuma]

Throw a bunch of ECL-1 kobolds at them. The Expert class is often overlooked, but it can be used to create a bunch of ambushing scouts. Rapid Reload and things like Precise Shot and Far Shot can give the kobolds an awesome ability to harass the party. Typically from behind traps.

Also, try playing mine craft and Dwarf Fortress for trap ideas. >=3

[Gamer Girl]

1.Teamwork--This is very simple. Take any two monsters and have them work together as a unit. A simple one to use is a goblin and a wolf:The wolf will attempt to trip the foe and give the goblin a chance for a good strike at the prone foe. A goblin to flank for a hobgoblin rogue can be deadly. One kobold with a tanglefoot bag and one kobold with a weapon can be effective. Have an attacker disarm a foe and have a creature ready(lets say an imp) to grab the discarded weapon. One creature to grapple, and then one creature to pound on the grappled foe(this gets nasty with say a grappling rast and then a orc with fire attack spells). And three or four or more can even work.

2.Guerrilla Tactics--The foes avoid 'just standing in a 10x10 square and fighting. A classic here is a small, swift group that charges in and makes a single attack and then flees.

3.Snipers--Another classic tactic. Get a couple monsters with range attacks and take a couple long range strikes at the foes. It's easy to see a couple elven archers making this type of attack, but don't forget other monsters. A manticore can fire it's tail spikes 180 feet, for example.

4.Traps--Anyone of any intelligence sets up traps. And loot hungry adventures make good targets. They will often fall for a trap with treasure for bait.

5.Low Magic Strikes--This can be quite deadly. Take a kobold cave where they have set up five spellcasting kobolds in a nice save perch, each with a wand of magic missiles(5 charges each). Every round that is a near automatic 2-5 damage(10-25 total) for five rounds(50-125), either spread out in the group or concentrated. A group of drow warlocks can also be deadly. Monsters with one shot 'throw and destroy' magic can be quite deadly, such as giving your halflings fire seeds(the spell) to throw.

[ArcanistSupreme]

a ghost attacking like that seems more frustrating then scary. (sure characters might be scared but players are more likely to be annoyed)

I guess this idea just comes down to being DM/group dependent. A good DM would pace things so it kept the pressure and tension up but not have it attack so often it was annoying and made the players feel powerless.

Obviously this wouldn't work with a hack-and-slash style of play, but I know that at least the group I game with would enjoy the challenge.

[Seffbasilisk]

Hobgoblins migrating.

You can have non-combatents, and because of the Hobgoblin martial inclination, you can use complicated tactics and cooperative long-term strategies. They might have nested allies in areas they're moving through, or safe-conducts from a nearby dragon...

[ArcanistSupreme]

Another idea would be a trap that separates the party (not for too long; maybe one or two encounters). Sure, the whole party can slaughter multitudes of lower CR monsters, but how will the Beguiler fair against a room full of zombies, or the Crusader against a bunch of Mephits? This plan could be implemented by any lower CR group with some prep time.

[subject42]

3.Snipers--Another classic tactic. Get a couple monsters with range attacks and take a couple long range strikes at the foes. It's easy to see a couple elven archers making this type of attack, but don't forget other monsters. A manticore can fire it's tail spikes 180 feet, for example.

A few first level Warlocks with Eldritch spear firing in a concentrated volley can really ruin a party's day.

[ArcanistSupreme]

A few first level Warlocks with Eldritch spear firing in a concentrated volley can really ruin a party's day.

Amen, provided they have cover and are spread out enough. Big open field that has to be crossed, anyone?

[subject42]

Amen, provided they have cover and are spread out enough. Big open field that has to be crossed, anyone?

I did this with a bunch of territorial gnomish hillbillies once, with the eldritch blast fluffed out as solar-powered blunderbusses.

The idea of being pinned down at range scared the party so much that they ended up using diplomacy and roleplaying to overcome the situation, even though they could have easily shrugged off the damage and killed all of the gnomes in a round or two.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

The spring-attacking ghost might be interesting for interrupting rest... what exactly happens to a spellcrafter who can't get an hour's peace to recharge spells? If the ghost attacks at the 55 minute mark, does the hour have to restart?

It seems like a ghost could at least give the parties penalties for not being well rested the next day... not much, but cheap harassment is always worth having...

If the ghost were also a decent melee fighter, it might mean greater threat to casters during combat- meat shields have to stick close.