Animate Dead

[Demonic Spoon]

So...I have always been under the impression that the spell Animate Dead could only be used to create skeletons and zombies (as described in the PHB). However, I've seen people on the forums raising all sorts of weird types of undead with that spell, and I'm confused. Is there some alternate rule I'm missing?

[pyroman]

The SRD states that only skeletons and zombies may be created, but I would imagine that most players and DMs find this kind of boring after a while, and houserule in other kinds of undead, likely for a higher materials cost.

[erikun]

You are reading the spell correctly - Animate Dead only creates skeletons and zombies. However, there is also Create Undead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/createUndead.htm), Create Greater Undead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/createGreaterUndead.htm), Summon Undead spells, special abilities with create undead, and the ability to Rebuke Undead to put wandering undead under your control.

The last one is generally how a character gets control of a Shadow (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/shadow.htm) army: They go wandering around looking for one, and rebuke it under their control.

[Demonic Spoon]

So it's most likely houseruled, then...because some guy in another thread was talking about using some very weird undead thing from MMIV via animate dead..

Hmm...this is something I must ask my DM..

[erikun]

There might be some optional rules in other books. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a "Animate Greater Undead" or just a variant Animate Dead that allows different types.

Do you have the other thread handy?

[Demonic Spoon]

One of them was here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10845793&postcount=5) in one of my own threads where a guy talked about raising weird minions that nothing could kill.

Another was here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10790169&postcount=4), specifically where he talks about raising Necrosis Carnexes with animate dead.

[Coidzor]

One of them was here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10845793&postcount=5) in one of my own threads where a guy talked about raising weird minions that nothing could kill.

Another was here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10790169&postcount=4), specifically where he talks about raising Necrosis Carnexes with animate dead.

The specific details of Necrosis Carnexes is detailed in their entry due to being released after the PHB. They might actually be created in a manner similar to construct creation, I can't recall. I'll have to doublecheck in my MMIV. edit: Yeah, it's a ritualized casting that takes about ten minutes, but you still use the spell to get it.

The general case is skellies and zomblebees only, but specific exceptions might arise. edit: I imagine Slaymate qualifies under this, but he might've just rebuked it, since Slaymates are really low HD and are easy to command if one is relatively middling-high.

Similarly, you might be able to evade the HD cap on skeletons and zombies using an advanced form of undead creation spell, though that's going entirely into DM adjudication territory.

As for the other guy, there's an Awaken Undead spell he just cast on some skeletons he'd made himself(doing so doesn't negate his magical control over them by virtue of creating them), Umbral is a template that basically allows creatures to be shadows without having to lose all of their racial and class features and HD, so if he used a rebuked shadow to kill that Rakshasa, then his shadow controlled its spawn into serving him. Or he turned into a shadow and killed the rakshasa and got it to serve him that way.

Curst are a bit more complicated and obscure and I can't recall how they're made at all. Seems to invovle a use of bestow curse though?

[erikun]

The first link seems to be using an Awaken Undead spell and some skeleton variant that allows the creature to retain special attacks/qualities. (Or perhaps the Awaken Undead spell gives it back to them.) The other creatures include a golem and a spellstitched, which have their own creation rules rather than using Animate Dead - assuming I remember correctly.

I'm not sure what a Necrosis Carnexes is, so I'll just assume that it's a variant rule. It's not unusual for new creatures to be added to the summon lines when introduced in a new sourcebook, after all.

[Demonic Spoon]

Necrosis Carnex says, in its description, that it can be made with Animate Dead. I like it. Are there any other undead like that?

[JaronK]

Necrosis Carnex is a special case, as outlined in the specific monster entry for that creature (note you need CL 11 to make them). The other special cases are Skeletal Dragons and Zombie Dragons (both outlined in either Dragon Magic or Draconomicon, can't remember which) which are slightly different from normal Skeletons and Zombies, but also made via Animate Dead. And of course there's regular old Skeletons and Zombies.

As far as I know, that's all you can create with Animate Dead.

JaronK

[Demonic Spoon]

I did some looking around and there's a few other creatures in MM II, III and IV that you can raise.

[Coidzor]

I did some looking around and there's a few other creatures in MM II, III and IV that you can raise.

Which ones are they?


The other special cases are Skeletal Dragons and Zombie Dragons (both outlined in either Dragon Magic or Draconomicon, can't remember which) which are slightly different from normal Skeletons and Zombies, but also made via Animate Dead.

I believe it's Draconomicon that details skeletal and zombie dragons as well as vampiric ones.

[Demonic Spoon]

Which ones are they?

I forget the names, I apologize. Just look at the list of creatures by template (it's on the second page) and most of the undead that aren't CR17+ have a listing on how to create them. For MM II (and maybe III) these are in the descriptions of the creature, MM IV (and maybe III) has a separate "Creating a <creature>" section.

[elonin]

I must admit to having never understood animate dead. This spell is a good way of making yourself broke.

[KillianHawkeye]

I believe it's Draconomicon that details skeletal and zombie dragons as well as vampiric ones.

Yeah, Draconomicon. There's also a ghost dragon template, and the dracolich.

[Coidzor]

Demonic Spoon: Well, the most interesting thing was that you said you found other things capable of being created with animate dead, really.
I must admit to having never understood animate dead. This spell is a good way of making yourself broke.

If you're using it to make weak things and often that just get killed and/or your DM is being stingy with wealth or making you pay through the nose for black onyx (though, y'know... 25 gp of black onyx = 25 gp of black onyx as illustrated so well by that one OotS strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0677.html)) or going after killing your undead as his priority, in which case, hey, you should be making back what you paid for the undead by appropriate treasure from something that was ignoring the party to concentrate on a boneshield.

:smallconfused: Don't really see it as that much of a wealth sink otherwise.

[AslanCross]

I must admit to having never understood animate dead. This spell is a good way of making yourself broke.

If you have the Corpsecrafter line of feats, you can make some seriously powerful minions on that same budget. Fast zombies, freezing zombies, tough(er than usual) zombies, NECROEXPLOSIVE BIOWEAPON zombies, or any combination of the above.

[elonin]

First my recollection was off. Thought that the cost was 60gp instead of 25. Even still I regard spells with MC costs as charged items in that each use makes you poorer, even if not by much. So if you have no issues using wands often then you'd clearly disagree with me.

My point of view comes from having the main part of my experience playing mid level wizards having to pay for EVERY spell in his book other than the 2 free per level. In that game we were up against clerics so found no scrolls or spell books.

[Silva Stormrage]

First my recollection was off. Thought that the cost was 60gp instead of 25. Even still I regard spells with MC costs as charged items in that each use makes you poorer, even if not by much. So if you have no issues using wands often then you'd clearly disagree with me.

My point of view comes from having the main part of my experience playing mid level wizards having to pay for EVERY spell in his book other than the 2 free per level. In that game we were up against clerics so found no scrolls or spell books.

Well most people that specialize in animating undead find a way to negate the cost (pale master or spell stitching it are the most common).

[Zomg Zombies]

I personally prefer the Fell Animate feat for my cheap animation. Slap it on every (or most) attacking spells and watch your undead army expand without lugging around 1000s of gps of onyx. Of course, with your instantaneous spells, unless you plan on mowing over enemies, you'd only apply FA at the end, when the critter is on it's last legs.

I prefer durationed spells, they do less per pop, but they keep popping; Greater Consumption Field is a tasty one (especially combined with Mass Harm [oh, you just went from 250 to 1? Ouch, well, now you're dead, as a consolation prize: you get to be my zombie!]). This works best in campaigns where DMs use Action points (use an AP and add a known metaspell without increasing the level of the spell)

My absolute favorite spell for Fell Animate, of all time, has got to be Animate Dead itself. If your zombies kill a critter, it animates as if Animate Dead was cast; the very same spell that was felled, so, what it kills animates, and so on and so on.

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff: Thread necro on an animate dead thread is a bit on the nose, isn't it? Regardless, against the Forum Rules.