3.5 birds

[TheRiov]

I'm playing a necromancer cleric in 3.5e evil campaign. Its a pirate campaign, so we'll be at sea a great deal. Recently came to the realization that nearly all the cleric spells are medium/short range spells, and utterly useless at ship-combat distances. My plan, then, is to use Unliving Weapon on bird zombies.

To that end, I am looking for FAST birds. I can't find stats for Terns, Swifts or or peregrine falcons. If someone has alternate suggestions. I welcome them.

[ArcanistSupreme]

Just go with eagles. A fly speed of 80 ft is pretty darn fast, and without switching to dragon zombies you're unlikely to find anything that will be too much faster.

[AslanCross]

The eagle stats in the SRD can be used to represent "any diurnal bird of prey." You could just add an (Ex) that allows a diving falcon to achieve quadruple speed instead of just double speed. That said, 80 ft. move speed is really fast already. It might get to a point where they might as well be teleporting if your battle grid is too small.

[TroubleBrewing]

A teleporting hawk: the worst enemy of small mammals, reptiles, and amphibians everywhere.

[AsteriskAmp]

Actually, with Stormwrack ship to ship combat rules (which are the only ones I'm aware of), any PC interaction other then ship manning, and ship weaponary, and well, a high level wizard with REALLY long range spells (800 ft. aprox.) won't be doing anything significant, even if you got a hawk and could command it to attack, the damage done to another ship would be negligible and it's crew has at worst +4 to AC because of the ship itself and at their best are not reachable (since they are covered by, well, the hsip) with +8 to AC being a middle point and you would have to take out several of them to actually reduce their speed or something. Normally ships travel at 60 aprox. per round, so unless you are opening and the other ship is closing, the hwak will see little action.

My recommendation: If you really want to contribute take:
Profession (Siege Engineer) or Profession (Sailor), if the ship has enough crew, Craft (Shipmaking or whatever is called) allows you to repair it.

Otherwise, battlefield control at sea is crucial, specially because of limited space. Grease is GREAT against most attackers, and caltrops rock in making the opponent trying to reach you screwed. As for attacking, gear is priority, gloves and resistant boots prevent caltrops in railing from making your life suck. Finally, ropes are your friends.

And last, since you already are a necromancer: SEA MONSTERS.
There is nothing worse than having to fight two flanks, and worse yet, one of them is not really escapable and WILL deal not only casualties but damage to the ship. So now, instead of just having to deal with live casualties, your enemy has to keep track of material casualties. This means retreat, which will probably end up with enough damaged sections to warrant a sinking, or surrendering (and ship sinking since the monster probably won't stop anyway) for them.


Also, since you are going to see plenty of sea, even if you are not the DM, read Stormwrack, it gives you an edge.

[Talya]

Also, since you are going to see plenty of sea, even if you are not the DM, read Stormwrack, it gives you an edge.

<- TheRiov's DM

[AsteriskAmp]

<- TheRiov's DM

More reasons to read Stormwrack.

In fact, everyone should read Stormwrack, as a book it's rather awesome. As mechanics, the ship combat part is excellently done.
And it gives a price to a Bicorn, now everyone can look as awesome as Admiral Nelson.

[TheRiov]

Thinking more in terms of taking out opposing spellcasters. tearing holes in sails, slicing through rigging. (remember, we're pirates, we're going to be on the offensive a lot) Zombies have that lovely DR vs blunt & piercing weapons which makes them likely to be not terribly susceptible to missile fire.

(this is on my mind particularly as I had to eat a fireball (and potentially many more except for an insanely lucky catapult shot) while standing like a dumb #%#$% at the wizard on the other ship.

[AsteriskAmp]

Thinking more in terms of taking out opposing spellcasters. tearing holes in sails, slicing through rigging. (remember, we're pirates, we're going to be on the offensive a lot) Zombies have that lovely DR vs blunt & piercing weapons which makes them likely to be not terribly susceptible to missile fire.

(this is on my mind particularly as I had to eat a fireball (and potentially many more except for an insanely lucky catapult shot) while standing like a dumb #%#$% at the wizard on the other ship.

Short Answer: Read Stormwrack, specially look into the Modules section to get an insight into pirate tactics.

Long Answer: The rigging normally has insane HP, as in you won't be able to destroy it with a hawk before the two ships are in grappling distance. The problem is not so much the hawk will get killed but the hawk won't cause MEANINGFUL damage, the cap for Unliving Weapon is 10d6, the average rigging will survive even Max Damage from that.

You don't want ship to ship combat but boarding and pillaging at minimal cost to both sides. This is normally achieved by sneaking in at the middle of the night with a false flag. Boarding, and filling their deck with harmful stuff so that they can oppose little resistance, and then looting and running.

If they have siege weapons, and generally a sturdier ship, run away. If wizards are on board, don't try to fight back but make their situation annoying, again, sea monsters are better.

Since you are pirates and the ones mainly taking the initiative, I recommend getting a siege weapon, and using the minions as a workforce for rebuilding or fire stopping. You gain little out there in the open, get to the crow's perch to get a bonus to AC and then use rope to reach the other ship. Wizards have little business on deck UNLESS they have a long range attack (fireball), non-healing clerics are worse off since they have little chance to cause crew damage.

Control Water is useful if they are running away.

[TheRiov]

We're still considering casting feather fall on a catapult load of skeletons/zombies and chucking them ;-)

[Undercroft]

Are squid (and other aquatic monsters) zombies out of the question? Might be an option if you can't go for birds. Get a nice big grappling kraken-esque monster to mess with them (perhaps if it's even just to pull some of their sailors off their ship)

[Hazzardevil]

For what you want, ideally you need skeletons.
Zombies only get 1 action per turn. Skeletons don't lose this.

[Talya]

For what you want, ideally you need skeletons.
Zombies only get 1 action per turn. Skeletons don't lose this.

Skeletons can't fly, so wouldn't do the trick.

I rather like his birds idea.


Anyway, I already make a fair bit of use out of stormwrack, but i "fudge" most of the ship-to-ship combat so far. I don't want to further bog down a pbp game with more detail.

[Cartigan]

Skeletons can't fly, so wouldn't do the trick.
Catapult skeletons can jump good.

[TheRiov]

GM already ruled that since zombies require a skeletal system I cannot use zombie cephelopods. Sharks are an option, but their ability to attack a ship is limited.

[TheRiov]

You don't want ship to ship combat but boarding and pillaging at minimal cost to both sides. This is normally achieved by sneaking in at the middle of the night with a false flag. Boarding, and filling their deck with harmful stuff so that they can oppose little resistance, and then looting and running.

I did consider control water, but sneaking in is not so much an option. My ship's captain likes to use the catapult to fire flaming goats across the opponents bow. For some reason our victems think this is a threat rather than an offer of trade. /boggle

[Talya]

I did consider control water, but sneaking in is not so much an option. My ship's captain likes to use the catapult to fire flaming goats across the opponents bow. For some reason our victems think this is a threat rather than an offer of trade. /boggle

Live flaming goats. Until they hit something, anyway.


The captain makes Jack Sparrow look positively sane. I must point out, however, TheRiov, that it wasn't the captain that advised the goats be set aflame. That was his Kara-turan gunner (an OA Samurai/warblade) misinterpreting the phrase "fire the goat." The captain just approved of the result.

[Corolinth]

Gnaval combat works best when the attacking force has the element of surprise. The beauty of the catapult as a delivery mechanism for the walking dead is that gnobody expects skeletons and zombies to drop on their heads. Frankly, I'm of the opinion that featherfall gneedlessly delays the deployment of the paratroopers, and also wastes valuable spell slots or potions. I'm more than willing to eat the cost of spell components on dead zombies and skeletons, particularly if the catapult team can consistently hit members of the opposing crew in the process. If we gneed more money to continue animating the dead, well... pirates.

You see, by accepting the installation of zombies and skeletons aboard their ship, the other crew also accepts the costs associated, and agrees to reimburse us for any expenses incurred.

[Talya]

Gnaval combat works best when the attacking force has the element of surprise. The beauty of the catapult as a delivery mechanism for the walking dead is that gnobody expects skeletons and zombies to drop on their heads. Frankly, I'm of the opinion that featherfall gneedlessly delays the deployment of the paratroopers, and also wastes valuable spell slots or potions. I'm more than willing to eat the cost of spell components on dead zombies and skeletons, particularly if the catapult team can consistently hit members of the opposing crew in the process. If we gneed more money to continue animating the dead, well... pirates.

You see, by accepting the installation of zombies and skeletons aboard their ship, the other crew also accepts the costs associated, and agrees to reimburse us for any expenses incurred.

And here we have the captain...

[Rane126]

Hey, if you are going to show off your trade wares, what better way to bring attention to it then setting lite to it and rolling a natural 20 for the firing arc from a catapult?

[Talya]

Instant Message exchange between our captain and our gunner:


(2:00:24 PM) Ranelagh: i still don't want to see skellies and zombies on our ship
(2:00:39 PM) Corolinth: Well
(2:00:45 PM) Corolinth: You are the catapult crew chief.
(2:01:20 PM) Corolinth: Under this plan {firing zombies and skeletons from a catapult}, aren't you technically in charge of getting them off the ship?
(2:02:03 PM) Ranelagh: /sigh
(2:02:22 PM) Corolinth: When you think about it, this is a problem that solves itself.
(2:02:22 PM) Ranelagh: touchee
(2:02:52 PM) Ranelagh: i hate that


(3:12:12 PM) Corolinth: Exchanges like that are why I be the captain.