Out of Curiosity . . . (Turn Undead)

[Zaq]

So, just out of curiosity and looking for purely anecdotal evidence, when's the last time that you (or someone at your table) tried to actually turn undead? Not catch a ghost in your rebukéball, not use 'em for divine feats, not use 'em for devotion feats, not use 'em as an attempt to counter some random negative energy effect, but actually flat out turn undead? What were the circumstances under which you did so, and how successful were you?

I've personally never seen it in any game I've ever played, but I don't see too many clerics in my games since the good players don't like the bookkeeping (and the responsibility of being T1) and the weaker players don't like being healers or buffers. I'm curious to see how often, if ever, you folks actually see it used as . . . well, not necessarily as intended, but as originally written, meant to make zombies and ghouls run away from you (and possibly get dusted, if they're just minions and you get lucky). Have you ever seen it happen? How often, under what circumstances, and when? Was it a spontaneous "oh yeah, I have this ability, let's see if it works!" moment, or did you build your character around being really good at turning undead? Tell me your experiences!

[Koury]

There is a place in Expedition to Undermountain where Turn Undead can help things quiet a lot.

Outside of that? I don't think I've seen it either. Obviously, I don't recall everything since I was 12 (when I got my 3.0 books), but yeah. Nothing at all comes to mind.

[Keld Denar]

In Living Greyhawk a few years ago, my Radiant Servant who was decked out with a Phylactery of Undead Turning, duel Sacred upgrades on weapon and shield, an Ephod of Authority, and a Rod of Defiance managed to dust the...16 HD or so lich who lurks under the city of Dyvers. Basically, the one encounter the character was geared and built to absolutely destroy, he ended in 6 seconds flat. At level 10, even...

Poof, next encounter!

[Amnestic]

When I played Baldur's Gate 2.

Can't recall ever seeing it used to actually Turn in 3.x.

[Vance_Nevada]

... Pretty much every time we've encountered undead. In the current campaign, zombies, skeletons, shadows, and vampires (maybe 7 separate encounters total). The vampires didn't work because of a poor roll, everything else ended up either dust or running away.

Not a cleric geared for turning at all (unless having 12 Charisma counts), but it's just a logical cleric thing to do when encountering undead.

[Blackjackg]

Yeah, happens all the time. It's a useful, flavorful power and comes free with your cleric. Not everything has to be totally tricked out to be fun.

[Diarmuid]

As others have said...pretty much everytime there's a cleric who can turn undead in a group, and that group faces undead...that cleric usually uses turn undead.

[Badgerish]

In a one-off game (lvl 4 I think), I was playing a pregen cleric.

We encountered ghouls who poured out of small tunnels. On my turn, I announced I was using turn undead.

1 book, 2 minutes, 2 tables and 2 dice rolls later, some of the ghouls turned and run back into the tunnels*. This was seen as counter-productive, as we didn't want to follow the murderous creatures into close quarters like that.


In another game, I was playing a barb1/cleric2. We encountered a horde of zombies! While waiting for my turn, I looked at the math and between my 8 CHA, lower cleric level and lack of feats for it, it wasn't going to be effective at all. So I just kept killing one a round with my power-attack greatsword.

A different time, we encountered a weakened mummy. Didn't even consider using turn-undead there.


In DDO, the MMORPG (which uses something akin to 3.5 rules). I play a well-equipped combat-focused ranger1/clericX. I'm using fighting things notably above my level, so turn-undead isn't even on my quickbars.


* If I recall it correctly, some Ghouls where in melee, the others where waiting. All the turned targets came from the waiting ones, so no OOAs.

[Diarmuid]

.../snip

* If I recall it correctly, some Ghouls where in melee, the others where waiting. All the turned targets came from the waiting ones, so no OOAs.

Turn Undead explicitly states that it effects those closest to the cleric first, so unless your cleric was closer to the holes they were coming from, which seems odd as they would have been running past you to get to the melee, your group did this wrong.

[Anxe]

My last campaign was focused around having bunches of undead, so... quite recently. The campaign before that the divine caster was a favored soul, so no turning went on.

[Alleine]

In a recent long running campaign I was in I used it to great effect several times. Mostly early on because of a lack of undead later, but I got some decent mileage out of it.

First good one was when we were entering an abandoned house in the country, looking for evidence of ghoul infection that had been spreading around. A bunch of zombies shambled down from the second floor into the straight stairwell right in front of me(go go zombie slowness!). Sun domain, greater turning, dusted all but the last 1 or 2 out of 7 or so. It was awesome :smallbiggrin:
The DM got mad though what with the ending the encounter in almost 1 round thing.

There were a few other minor places where I used it to some effect, making undead cower in a corner while my buddies beat it to redeath. After that though the number of undead thinned out pretty quickly as the focus of the campaign changed. I may have used it later to dust a vampire spawn at higher levels.

We recently attempted Expedition to Castle Ravenloft where the cleric took the variant included in the campaign book, then pumped his turning and absolutely devastated every undead encounter until the DM killed him(not because of his power though), and forbid us from using the variant.

Turn Undead really depends on the campaign. Undead apocalypse? It's probably gonna rock your socks due to hordes of low level easily turned mooks. Sun Domain alone allows you to be a lot better thanks to Greater Turning. It's helped me dust guys that I would have barely managed to turn because of their resistance. In a campaign with not many undead? Being unfamiliar with turning and not supporting it will obviously make it useless.

[Amiria]

Just last session in a RL game, 3 days ago my Cleric 8/Fist of Raziel 2 destroyed a bunch of skeletons and zombies with a Turn Undead. They were blocking the way and it was just quicker (and saver, they can still roll a 20 now and then) then destroying them with weapons.

[Coidzor]

So, just out of curiosity and looking for purely anecdotal evidence, when's the last time that you (or someone at your table) tried to actually turn undead? Not catch a ghost in your rebukéball, not use 'em for divine feats, not use 'em for devotion feats, not use 'em as an attempt to counter some random negative energy effect, but actually flat out turn undead? What were the circumstances under which you did so, and how successful were you?

In an Expedition to Castle Ravenloft game against some incorporeal undead that were attacking us from a graveyard. I took that one feat that lets one destroy undead instead of just turn them in exchange for 2 feats so I pretty much dusted them.

Also I had a couple of +1 turning level enhancement items.

This was about two sessions ago. Since then the undead I've run into have finally become too high of a level for me to reliably turn, unlike the hordes of zomblebees at the beginning of the adventure.

[subject42]

Back in 2007~2008 we had a someone playing a Paladin who's player was stupidly lucky with turn undead roles. I never saw her role less than an 18. The next campaign with a divine caster in it involved us switching to Pathfinder, so everybody just uses channel now, rather than turn.

[Blisstake]

I think I ended up using it a total of 2 times. But then again, I've only played a cleric once. The DM put us against a ridiculous amount of zombies. We just came out of a room where kobolds were sniping us from a balcony. I managed to turn a good number of the zombies so they ran to the kobold room and got bolted to death.

The other time was a failed attempt against a giant floating skull.

[Lhurgyof]

So, just out of curiosity and looking for purely anecdotal evidence, when's the last time that you (or someone at your table) tried to actually turn undead? Not catch a ghost in your rebukéball, not use 'em for divine feats, not use 'em for devotion feats, not use 'em as an attempt to counter some random negative energy effect, but actually flat out turn undead? What were the circumstances under which you did so, and how successful were you?

I've personally never seen it in any game I've ever played, but I don't see too many clerics in my games since the good players don't like the bookkeeping (and the responsibility of being T1) and the weaker players don't like being healers or buffers. I'm curious to see how often, if ever, you folks actually see it used as . . . well, not necessarily as intended, but as originally written, meant to make zombies and ghouls run away from you (and possibly get dusted, if they're just minions and you get lucky). Have you ever seen it happen? How often, under what circumstances, and when? Was it a spontaneous "oh yeah, I have this ability, let's see if it works!" moment, or did you build your character around being really good at turning undead? Tell me your experiences!

We had a cleric turn mummies a year back.

My priest in Dark Sun controlled a skeleton once.

[Blue Bandit]

Personally, I've never had any success in using turn undead above 3rd level. After that, the hit-dice of Undead always seemed to outpace my ability to turn them.

I once built a cleric/radiant servant of Pelor that was centered around turning undead, but the concept failed utterly. No matter whats feats I picked up, or items I acquired to boost my turning level, 90% of the undead we faced had too many hit-dice and thus, unaffected by my turning.

[Coidzor]

I once built a cleric/radiant servant of Pelor that was centered around turning undead, but the concept failed utterly. No matter whats feats I picked up, or items I acquired to boost my turning level, 90% of the undead we faced had too many hit-dice and thus, unaffected by my turning.

Turn undead (or rebuking) after a certain level need a bard cohort or a bard in the party... or a hireling... willing to play an instrument and present the extra turn resistance debuffing items in order to stay relevant and even then, class levels and such just add to the difficulty...

[Keld Denar]

It takes a bit of work, but you can get to like, Cleric level +13 or so before you even roll. If you are 11th level, thats a 24 HD undead. It won't work so well on the meatbags like zombies, but it'll trash most Incorps and things like Vamps and Liches with little trouble. Zombies, well, just give your fighter a slashing weapon, buff him with Righteous Wrath, and go have some tea while he gleefully covers himself in viscera and gore.

Phylactery of Undead Turning +4
Sacred Armor (A&EG) +2
Sacred Shield (A&EG) +2
Improved Turning feat (CDiv) +1
Ephod of Authority (MIC) +1
Rod of Defiance (LM) -4 Turn Resistance
Lyre of the Restful Soul (LM) -4 Turn Resistance (yes, you can have a negative TR)

That's Cleric level +18, and a roll of 21+ would give Cleric level +22. Thats a 33 HD undead on a level 11 cleric chassis, plenty enough to dust any lich you have LoS to.

*ahnananananananananana!!!!!!* *pop* *fizz*

[Coidzor]

It takes a bit of work, but you can get to like, Cleric level +13 or so before you even roll. If you are 11th level, thats a 24 HD undead. It won't work so well on the meatbags like zombies, but it'll trash most Incorps and things like Vamps and Liches with little trouble. Zombies, well, just give your fighter a slashing weapon, buff him with Righteous Wrath, and go have some tea while he gleefully covers himself in viscera and gore.

Phylactery of Undead Turning +4
Sacred Armor (A&EG) +2
Sacred Shield (A&EG) +2
Improved Turning feat (CDiv) +1
Ephod of Authority (MIC) +1
Rod of Defiance (LM) -4 Turn Resistance
Lyre of the Restful Soul (LM) -4 Turn Resistance (yes, you can have a negative TR)

That's Cleric level +18, and a roll of 21+ would give Cleric level +22. Thats a 33 HD undead on a level 11 cleric chassis, plenty enough to dust any lich you have LoS to.

*ahnananananananananana!!!!!!* *pop* *fizz*

Question. Do multiple instances of items like the rod or lyre stack with one another? I... can't remember the relevant rules text yea or nay.

I believe there's another rod, possibly also Libris Mortis, that provides some benefit to turning as well...

[Keld Denar]

Yea, Rod of Defiance.

All of the bonuses are unnamed. So all of the bonuses stack and all of the penalties stack.

The good news is, if you are pimping out your ability to turn undead, you can double up on creature types if you cast Turn Anathema (CChampion, Clr2/Pal2) first. That lets you turn outsiders with an alignment component opposite one of yours. So any good cleric can turn any fiend, daemon, or devil. Actually, it tends to be MUCH easier, since evil outsiders tend to advance 1:1 between HD and CR, where undead are often more like 2:1 for intelligent and 4:1 for unintelligent. It wouldn't be that hard for a level 8-9 cleric to turn a balor or pit fiend. Unfortuantely, you can't apply a greater turning to Turn Anathema...shame shame shame.

[Coidzor]

Yea, Rod of Defiance.

All of the bonuses are unnamed. So all of the bonuses stack and all of the penalties stack.

The good news is, if you are pimping out your ability to turn undead, you can double up on creature types if you cast Turn Anathema (CChampion, Clr2/Pal2) first. That lets you turn outsiders with an alignment component opposite one of yours. So any good cleric can turn any fiend, daemon, or devil. Actually, it tends to be MUCH easier, since evil outsiders tend to advance 1:1 between HD and CR, where undead are often more like 2:1 for intelligent and 4:1 for unintelligent. It wouldn't be that hard for a level 8-9 cleric to turn a balor or pit fiend. Unfortuantely, you can't apply a greater turning to Turn Anathema...shame shame shame.

It would be pretty epic to dust a Balor, after all. ...Or break fiends to your will as an evil cleric...

[Malimar]

The cleric in the last campaign I ran occasionally Turned Undead. Usually he didn't; I'm not sure why not, it would have been effective against most of the undead foes they were facing.

The most notable example was when he successfully Turned the vampire boss of a dungeon.

(Then they found the vampire's coffin and destroyed it. Then the vampire came back and noticed the scout was carrying 54 flasks of lamp oil. He had Scorching Ray prepared. It, uh, wasn't pretty. Though my players did have fun rolling 62d6 for me.)

[Coidzor]

Yea, Rod of Defiance.

Sceptre of the Netherworld! Always forget that one, but it's the +3 to level for Turning/Rebuking option.


All of the bonuses are unnamed. So all of the bonuses stack and all of the penalties stack.

So... Say, a handful of bard/expert followers playing on lyres of the restful soul would have their -4s to turn resistance stack?

[Kuulvheysoon]

Well, not quite turn undead, but I had an half-orcish (frostblood ftw!) Gatekeeper druid in Eberron who wasn't too bad at repelling aberrations (same mechanics, and it states that counts for turn undead in some ways)

[Draz74]

In my last lasting campaign, it was more or less a 50% shot whether the Cleric would attempt to Turn Undead when we encountered some. Depends on whether he felt like any of his spells (buffs or healing) were particularly needed each round, and (against corporeals) whether he was feeling lucky about the dice for normal combat attacks.

When the Clerics did attempt to Turn Undead, the result was generally disappointing. But then, that was true about lots of things that lots of characters spent their turns doing, too.

[absolmorph]

My first character in a campaign was a paladin.
He got turned into a mouse, and still was a huge help against 4 rooms with 2 zombies each.
Because I could still turn them.
Epic mouse paladin was epic.

[Bakkan]

So... Say, a handful of bard/expert followers playing on lyres of the restful soul would have their -4s to turn resistance stack?

Probably not, because they're coming from the same source, which usually doesn't stack even if the bonus/penalty is untyped.