How do you boost an enchanters DC's?

[Hazzardevil]

In a 20th level all wizard game one off I will (hopefull) be playing in I am an enchanter.
Theres one problem. I have to try and kill 8 other casters.
My first idea was cast a heightened dominate, mass spell and command them to all kill themselves.
Problem is, everyone of them will have good will saves.
So I need to boost the DC as high as possible.

So how can I do it or is there a better way for an enchanter to kill off everyone?

The plan is as few enchanter levels as possible with a ton of ACF's and the like to improve my enchanting ability with levels in Red Wizard for DC boosting, Archmage for some stuff that could help and use arcane devotee to enlarge the spell to effect hopefully everyone.
And chances are I willl end up dominating a few summoned creatures.

[Diarmuid]

Short answer...find another tactic. You're going to try to go after 8 other casters' best save with essentially all or nothing save spells, with arguable one of the easiest line of spells to gain immunity to.

[Bang!]

Outsource.

[Diarmuid]

Agreed, as an Enchanter go find a bunch of low Wisdom, low Will Save mooks to dominate, charm, etc to then go kill your rival casters for you.

[Eldariel]

The wizards will all probably have Protection from Alignment and Mind Blank at least. If you wish to overcome those personally, you'll need to be quite the Master Abjurer. If you can overcome those, use Irresistible Dance for a no-save way of screwing people over (you can Coup de Grace them or whatever). Get Arcane Reach and work from there. Thing is, it's still Mind-Affecting.

So you need those Mind Blanks down before you do anything. Your best bet is indeed mind controlling mooks. Outsiders capable of spellcasting should obviously be on the top of your list. Solars in particular offer high caster level Greater Dispel Magics, Miracles and all such. If opponent has mooks, Mind Control those too. And yeah, you can outsource your offense too. Only way an enchanter is gonna keep up is through aids, without heavy use of non-enchantment spells (Dispels, Orbs and such), though you of course shouldn't be above fighting the magic fight (and protecting yourself with magic).

[Hazzardevil]

Problem is, I can't do that.
I am locked in an empty Mile cubed arena, locked inside with a bunch of God's.
The only wizard I have a chance of killing is the necromancer right now.
He has no slaves and as soon as someone dies, he has 2 casters on his side.
So, what else can an enchanter do?

[Tyndmyr]

In a 20th level all wizard game one off I will (hopefull) be playing in I am an enchanter.

Mind blank is level 8. This strategy will fail, even with an arbitrarily high save DC(not to mention the non-trivial chance of one of them rolling a natural 20).

After all, if you just want stupid save DCs, you can go tainted scholar, but it's still a poor strategy.

Edit: You can dispel first...but that gives you two points of failure.

[Eldariel]

Problem is, I can't do that.
I am locked in an empty Mile cubed arena, locked inside with a bunch of God's.
The only wizard I have a chance of killing is the necromancer right now.
He has no slaves and as soon as someone dies, he has 2 casters on his side.
So, what else can an enchanter do?

Enchanters have 5 other schools. Which ones? You're going to need to draw upon non-enchantment spells also to win.

[Cartigan]

Problem is, I can't do that.
I am locked in an empty Mile cubed arena, locked inside with a bunch of God's.
The only wizard I have a chance of killing is the necromancer right now.
He has no slaves and as soon as someone dies, he has 2 casters on his side.
So, what else can an enchanter do?
Set yourself to explode?

[Veyr]

Enchantments will be useless to you if your only targets are other high-level Wizards. They have no business running around without Mind Blank up (nor should you, for that matter)..

So then I hope you have some good non-Enchantments.

[the clumsy bard]

Play a silverbrow human

Be an Enchanter 3 / master specialist 3 / wild soul 10 / fate spinner 4

Use the following feats

spell focus (enchantment)
greater spell focus (enchantment) ---> gained from master specialist
eschew materials
snow casting
draconic aura (energy cold)
cold focus
greater cold focus
leadership

Now with the above feats your save DCs will be all +8 minimum which becomes +9 with the last level of wild soul, which will also let you spontaneously cast time stop (which is always nice)

On top of that you will want a nice cohort that lower saves

something like:

paladin of tyranny 3 (for the aura that lowers saves by 2)
Hexblade 4 (dark companion acf to lower the saves by another 2)
Blackguard to lower the saves by another 2

then use fear effects to lower their saves even more

[Keld Denar]

Veil of Alure from the MIC boosts your Enchant DCs by 2. Its kinda steep, but at level 20 is barely anything. Takes your face slot though, so no crystal masks or 3rd eyes...

[Tyndmyr]

If I read this right, it sounds like an arena match with one of each of the specialized wizards there.

So, your first criteria is not "how do I kill them all in a round", it's "how do I not die in a round". Because, while you may have celerity, so will most of them. The init roll will be important.

How many buffs can you have up before the fight starts, and how many slots can you afford to dedicate to buffs? The answer is hopefully a large number.

[Yukitsu]

As a rule of thumb, whenever you're in a bad spot, lead with disjunction, and hope one of them somewhere was dumb enough to drop either transmutation or abjuration, because you need both to win wizard duels.

[Hazzardevil]

If I read this right, it sounds like an arena match with one of each of the specialized wizards there.

So, your first criteria is not "how do I kill them all in a round", it's "how do I not die in a round". Because, while you may have celerity, so will most of them. The init roll will be important.

How many buffs can you have up before the fight starts, and how many slots can you afford to dedicate to buffs? The answer is hopefully a large number.

1. That's right it is. Theres a school missing which is

2. I thought that if I dominate everyone else then I'm safe, it was the only thing I could think of. Luckily, Celerity spells, timestop and disjunction might get banned.

3. I don't think you have any.

[Cartigan]

1. That's right it is. Theres a school missing which is

2. I thought that if I dominate everyone else then I'm safe, it was the only thing I could think of. Luckily, Celerity spells, timestop and disjunction might get banned.

3. I don't think you have any.
Anti-magic Field. Sword fight to the death.

[Yukitsu]

Anti-magic Field. Sword fight to the death.

He'll get beat to death by the conjurer. Possibly the transmuter as well.

[Tyndmyr]

Anti-magic Field. Sword fight to the death.

While I give you points for style, the conjurer can still orb you to death.

Step 1. Permanency as many buffs as possible out of your WBL.

Step 2. Since no buffs are up initially, it's rocket tag in the worst way. Invest in init boosting. Nerveskitter is awesome. Nerveskitter + Improved Init + good dex + hummingbird familiar + feat to get double bonus from familiar + Lucky Start = two rolls for init with a +20 or so. Memorize as many celerities as is practical. Respond to any celerities with celerities of your own. Note that the nerveskitter trick works even if celerity is banned.

Step 3. Gear. Layer as many protective items and action economy boosting items as possible. Belt of Battle will be on that list, so you can go repeatedly in the initial action. A wand of wings of cover will be wand socketed in a kusari-gama, which you are wielding in one hand. You'll use this to block one attack/round which you are not yet immune to. You'll want Death Ward up asap, along with Mind Blank. Those'll likely cripple the illusionist and the necro. If time stop is not banned, absue it.

Step 4. Well, you need a few more clutch ways out. Bust out your complete champion, and note ye olde church of magic. Justifying being in this as a freaking wizard is easy. Note that getting the maximum rank as a wizard is trivial, and it grants you 1/day free counterspell without an action or a spell used. For you, this is basically one free time of not dying.

Step 5. Dominate works ok, mindrape works better. Don't try to get them all...spellcraft what you can, and target whoever isn't yet immune to you. Use them to kill whoever IS immune to you.

Step 6. Be necropolitan. Ok, this means you're effectively only what, level 19? No matter. The immunities are worth it.

Note the illusionist and diviner are the weakest of opponents, but specialized types need not cast only spells on their lists. All are still wizards.

[Veyr]

If any fool banned Abjuration, make him your very first target. No Abjuration means no Mind Blank, which means you've got a hope of getting two wizards, including one who may have access to spells you don't.

[Cartigan]

While I give you points for style, the conjurer can still orb you to death.
Not if he is in it.

And he's an Enchanter versus other Wizards, he's going to get beat to death by everyone anyway.

[Metahuman1]

Anitmagic Field + Leadership and invest in something not spell's reliant and as lethal in melee as possible. A TOB class would probably do it, give them an Addy Masterwork weapon and either Mithiral or Addy armor, let them kill the Wizards. Max out your leadership score and Bring as many Warrior/skill monkey minions as possible and deck them out with Mithrial/Addy armor and Addy weapons with Masterwork properties. A couple of scouts and Rouges would be good for sneaking up and killing them with sneak attack and for running them down and using shot on the run or spring attack to kill them so they can't flee. Keep a couple of those Minions close too you encase a Wizard tries to take a shot at you so you have people too hide behind.

Make sure your wielding a Weapon with the Eager and Warning properties and you have Improved Initiative and if you can spare the feat and skill ranks Quick Reconnecter so that you can get as much of a boost too the initiative roll as possible, becuase this plan needs that too win.

Edit: Ninja'd!

Tyndmyr-Those are good suggestions. There actually compatible with my above ideas as ways to stay alive if you lose initiative, and ways to win the Initiative.

[Tyndmyr]

Not if he is in it.

And he's an Enchanter versus other Wizards, he's going to get beat to death by everyone anyway.

Feh, if the conjurer is in it, then he's just going to walk outside. He'll take the AoO from your non-magical sword, if necessary. After walking away, he then orbs you to hell.

Enchanter would not have been my first choice for specialization...but he's still a wizard. And he might have the benefit of not being shot at first.

Yes, coupling Meta's advice for init boosting with mine should pretty much guarantee an init win. >+20 to init is pretty wicked when going against unbuffed wizards. Expect Improved Init to be common, though.

[Yukitsu]

Enchanters have the advantage in terms of their class alts IMO. One of them lets them sack their familiar for a cohort. That, a little mindbender, the variant nightmare spinner that lets enchantments bypass immunity, and you're going to do fairly well.

[Ernir]

To answer the question asked in the title, not including loops and crap like the Tainted Scholar:

Int as high as you feasibly can (20 start + 6 item + 5 inherent +5 level-up = 36 for +13)
Vow of Nonviolence (+4, does not stack with spell focus and possibly greater spell focus)
The Tyranny domain granted power (+1 for compulsions. The Domain Granted Power ACF in CChamp can give it to you, as does getting a Planar Touchstone feat for the catalogues of enlightenment, Planar Handbook)
The Veil of Allure (+2. MIC, as has already been mentioned by Keld)
The Fatespinner PrC (up to +4, or +5 if you take the last level. CArc). Since you know you will be fighting equal-level characters, the taking the last level would be a risky but possibly game-changing decision.
The Fey Heritage + Fey Power feats (+1, Complete Mage)
The Shadow Weave Magic feat (+1, Player's Guide to Faerûn).

[Doc Roc]

Actually, there is an easy way to KD the mindblanks. We saw it used now and then in the test of spite, but it was pretty rare. It also doesn't take out magic items, so if the mindblank is from an item, you're gonna be borked.

The trick is to get a minimal CL scroll of Mordenkainen's Disjunction. This won't blow up their items, leaving tasty salvage around. You may need multiple scrolls. 8 casters is... Well. That's... I mean....

You know the name for a group of wizards, right?
Much like a murder of crows, you get an apocalypse of wizards.


Beyond this, Ernir covered most of the options, though I believe there may be a couple metamagic spell components that'll work well. If you want my help in this, I can give it, but I need to know the skill level and power level we're looking at here. If 7 of those guys are chump-change evokers, this is probably winnable.

[Tyndmyr]

Honestly, if you have the highest optimization level, and it's not overtly obvious to the others, you've got solid odds.

After all, you don't need to kill seven wizards...you just need to not die before they do. I'm going to assume that any non-optimizers probably die in round one, because at even moderate power levels...things like Circle of Death and Gate are going to be tossed around like candy. Anyone relying on trading spells to lower hp like fighters swap blows is going to fall over purely from the stuff being splashed around.

[Doc Roc]

Honestly, if you have the highest optimization level, and it's not overtly obvious to the others, you've got solid odds.

After all, you don't need to kill seven wizards...you just need to not die before they do. I'm going to assume that any non-optimizers probably die in round one, because at even moderate power levels...things like Circle of Death and Gate are going to be tossed around like candy. Anyone relying on trading spells to lower hp like fighters swap blows is going to fall over purely from the stuff being splashed around.

Grim truth, mate, Grim truth.

[Hazzardevil]

While I give you points for style, the conjurer can still orb you to death.

Step 1. Permanency as many buffs as possible out of your WBL.

Step 2. Since no buffs are up initially, it's rocket tag in the worst way. Invest in init boosting. Nerveskitter is awesome. Nerveskitter + Improved Init + good dex + hummingbird familiar + feat to get double bonus from familiar + Lucky Start = two rolls for init with a +20 or so. Memorize as many celerities as is practical. Respond to any celerities with celerities of your own. Note that the nerveskitter trick works even if celerity is banned.

Step 3. Gear. Layer as many protective items and action economy boosting items as possible. Belt of Battle will be on that list, so you can go repeatedly in the initial action. A wand of wings of cover will be wand socketed in a kusari-gama, which you are wielding in one hand. You'll use this to block one attack/round which you are not yet immune to. You'll want Death Ward up asap, along with Mind Blank. Those'll likely cripple the illusionist and the necro. If time stop is not banned, absue it.

Step 4. Well, you need a few more clutch ways out. Bust out your complete champion, and note ye olde church of magic. Justifying being in this as a freaking wizard is easy. Note that getting the maximum rank as a wizard is trivial, and it grants you 1/day free counterspell without an action or a spell used. For you, this is basically one free time of not dying.

Step 5. Dominate works ok, mindrape works better. Don't try to get them all...spellcraft what you can, and target whoever isn't yet immune to you. Use them to kill whoever IS immune to you.

Step 6. Be necropolitan. Ok, this means you're effectively only what, level 19? No matter. The immunities are worth it.

Note the illusionist and diviner are the weakest of opponents, but specialized types need not cast only spells on their lists. All are still wizards.

I'll ask if MindBlank can be banned since that will kill me without a chance no matter what, also theres an ability on archmage that means anything I counterspell goes back at the caster. Is that a good idea?
I don't think any prestige classes are banned though.

[Doc Roc]

I'll ask if MindBlank can be banned since that will kill me without a chance no matter what, also theres an ability on archmage that means anything I counterspell goes back at the caster. Is that a good idea?
I don't think any prestige classes are banned though.

I think you have some guides to read, if I might be blunt. You seriously didn't consider mindblank?

[Ravens_cry]

Maybe they . . .drew a blank?:cool:
***
Yeah, I hate Mindblank the same reason I hate Freedom of Movement as written, as basically it says "No, your style of play is not allowed."

[Doc Roc]

Maybe they . . .drew a blank?:cool:
***
Yeah, I hate Mindblank the same reason I hate Freedom of Movement as written, as basically it says "No, your style of play is not allowed."

I hate it a lot less, since that style of play can be incredibly unfun for PCs. "Oh, look, I failed a save against a jack'd dc. Now I murder my team-mates and insist my name is Harmonica."

[Ravens_cry]

I hate it a lot less, since that style of play can be incredibly unfun for PCs. "Oh, look, I failed a save against a jack'd dc. Now I murder my team-mates and insist my name is Harmonica."
I agree, but when you build a charachter around something only for the game to say "No that doesn't work now" it is more then a little bothersome.

[Doc Roc]

I agree, but when you build a charachter around something only for the game to say "No that doesn't work now" it is more then a little bothersome.

Oh, I do deeply agree. But seriously. Harmonica The Harmaniac.

[Keld Denar]

Better would be if you named her Veronica, and she GAVE you a harmonica...

Tell your friend veronica, it's time you celebrate hanukkah
I hope I get a harmonica, on this lovely, lovely hanukkah.

[Ravens_cry]

Oh, I do deeply agree. But seriously. Harmonica The Harmaniac.
I guess that's the price you pay for a relative lack of difference between player and DM options. I think it should give a hefty bonus commiserate with an 8th level spell, maybe even a re-roll chance, but still have the possibility of failure.