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Earthwalker
2011-04-25, 10:06 AM
For my next game I am thinking of setting it in the modern world with a slight supernatural twist (some monster of myth are real, as is some magic).

I am hoping on a simple start where a group of characters (that are friends and know each other, and may also know a few things about magic) are sent a newspaper with one story highlighted. The PCs investigate the story and see whats really going one. As the game goes on they find out more about the world and about who is sending them the paper.

What I am looking for here is a system to run this in.

I am wanting it more about investigation and less about tactical combat. More about playing normal people that find the shadowy supernatural world over laying our own world.

Any ideas for a system ?

Conners
2011-04-25, 10:19 AM
Shadowrun with an alternate setting...? Of course, it mightn't work so well, if magic is rare--also the technology might be too high for your setting.

SurlySeraph
2011-04-25, 10:25 AM
New World of Darkness. Definitely New World of Darkness.

White_North
2011-04-25, 10:40 AM
Seconded for the New World of Darkness. Sounds like it's pretty much exactly what you're looking for.

Lunawarrior0
2011-04-25, 10:42 AM
I would suggest World of Darkness myself. You might even want to look into the Hunter bit of it, but that depends on where you want to take it.

Bang!
2011-04-25, 11:21 AM
I am wanting it more about investigation and less about tactical combat. More about playing normal people that find the shadowy supernatural world over laying our own world.

Any ideas for a system ?
It sounds like the GUMSHOE system or InSpectres would fit the bill; both are designed for supernatural investigative games.

GUMSHOE games like Esoterrorists, Fear Itself and Trail of Cthulu are played by providing players with the details and clues, and allowing plots to be pieced together in essentially reverse order. There are a few ways that players are encouraged to get into the narrative, but the narrative is highly GM-driven.

InSpectres is a light-hearted Ghostbusters or Men in Black modeled game, with mechanics encouraging investigations to get crazy (narrative control is shared by GM and players) and to get silly (one of the most memorable parts of gameplay involves Real World-style confessionals). It's a lot of fun, and definitely worth checking out, even if it doesn't mesh well with this particular game.

Earthwalker
2011-04-25, 12:02 PM
Shadowrun with an alternate setting...? Of course, it mightn't work so well, if magic is rare--also the technology might be too high for your setting.

I can see where you are going with this but I think if I were to run shadowrun I would leave the game world as is. I am not sure how it would handle in a modern day low magic setting.

Earthwalker
2011-04-25, 12:03 PM
I would suggest World of Darkness myself. You might even want to look into the Hunter bit of it, but that depends on where you want to take it.

For both old and new world of darkness suggestions I am not wanting the PCs to be supernatural, or if they are unly a very little bit. How does either system handle if you basically take away all the supernatural from the players ?

Earthwalker
2011-04-25, 12:07 PM
It sounds like the GUMSHOE system or inSpectres would fit the bill very nicely.
Both are designed for supernatural investigative games.

GUMSHOE games like Esoterrorists, Fear Itself and Trail of Cthulu are played by providing players with the details and clues, and allowing piecing plots together in essentially reverse order. There are a few ways that players are encouraged to get into the narrative, but the narrative is highly GM-driven.

inSpectres is a light-hearted Ghostbusters or Men in Black modeled game, with mechanics encouraging investigations to get crazy (narrative control is shared by GM and players) and to get silly (one of the most memorable parts of gameplay involves Real World-style confessionals). It's a lot of fun, and definitely worth checking out, even if it doesn't mesh well with this particular game.

WOW both of those sound exactly what I am looking for. I am thinking more Gumshoe then InSpectres. Thanks for the suggestions.

SurlySeraph
2011-04-25, 12:36 PM
For both old and new world of darkness suggestions I am not wanting the PCs to be supernatural, or if they are unly a very little bit. How does either system handle if you basically take away all the supernatural from the players ?

NWoD handles it very well. Default characters are mortals, you can add supernatural templates to them later if you want, and the main rulebook has good support for ghost stories or campaigns with limited and vague supernatural elements. Plus quite good investigation rules.

OWoD is a lot clunkier, in my opinion.

hamlet
2011-04-25, 01:00 PM
Chaosium's Basic Roleplaying System works really well for this kind of thing. It's what Call of Cthulhu is built on.

And, I've said it before and I'll say it again, Alternity actually does this very well. The Dark Matter flavor of the system is pretty much built around what you're trying to create. Really good stuff, actually.

Mr.Bookworm
2011-04-25, 01:03 PM
Yeah, nWoD is great for this sort of thing. Pick up the Hunter book, too, if you decide to emphasize the supernatural aspect more. Though the systems in there for Hunters can make mortals more fun to play even if you don't go all supernatural.

On the other hand, though, are you and your group D&D players? If you are, it might be easier to just go with d20 Modern, which is fairly decent, and a lot easier to pick up then learning a new system.

White_North
2011-04-25, 01:07 PM
Again, SurlySeraph has completely ninja'd me. nWoD works very well with only mortals. As a matter of fact, a Mortals game is my favourite kind to run or play in. The rules provided in the core book are geared for investigation and research and having the players run around trying to figure out the mystery you've constructed for them can be an absolute blast. As for magic, I'd second the suggestion of taking a look at Hunter. With a bit of reflavouring, the powers there could work very well for you.

Sipex
2011-04-25, 01:08 PM
To avoid needing to make a new thread and since the OP has a similar (but differing) concept from me.

Once my in person game has finished I'm thinking of running a hybrid game where my players play ordinary people in a modern world who have just gotten a new MMO. The PCs will investigate happenings in the real world which are somehow also linked to their new game and will alternate between logging in as their characters as well.

I've already determined that the MMO will use D&D 4E (partially because I'm comfortable with it and partially to poke fun at the whole "Lol, 4e is like WoW" thing) but I have no idea what would work for the 'real world' part of the game. Any ideas?

Earthwalker
2011-04-25, 01:34 PM
NWoD handles it very well. Default characters are mortals, you can add supernatural templates to them later if you want, and the main rulebook has good support for ghost stories or campaigns with limited and vague supernatural elements. Plus quite good investigation rules.

OWoD is a lot clunkier, in my opinion.

Ahh I only have experiance with OWoD, werewolf and Mage in fact. It seemed alot of the things we were doing in the system were from being either a werewolf or a mage and not alot of thought was given to the human side of things. (if you know what I mean) of course it might just have been how we played it.

Is there a basic NWoD rule book then with the different supernatuals as seperate books ?

Earthwalker
2011-04-25, 01:35 PM
Chaosium's Basic Roleplaying System works really well for this kind of thing. It's what Call of Cthulhu is built on.

And, I've said it before and I'll say it again, Alternity actually does this very well. The Dark Matter flavor of the system is pretty much built around what you're trying to create. Really good stuff, actually.

I have played a bit of CoC and I liked it. Not sure if its what I am looking for tho. Not sure I can explain why.

Bang!
2011-04-25, 01:56 PM
I've already determined that the MMO will use D&D 4E (partially because I'm comfortable with it and partially to poke fun at the whole "Lol, 4e is like WoW" thing) but I have no idea what would work for the 'real world' part of the game. Any ideas?Ooo. I like trying to work this kind of thing out, but that one's really tough.
[Especially since I know next to nothing about D&D 4e. :smalltongue:]

You probably don't want to stack two rules-heavy games on top of each other if they use different basic mechanics. But you probably want the video game to feel like it's different than the real world...

If you strip the powers, healing surges, magic and levels from D&D 4e, is there anything left? I'm going to assume there's still a generalized conflict resolution mechanic (the d20+modifiers = target thing) and a framework for characters to do things (abilities, saves, skill training, feats). I've heard level 1 characters are actually tough enough to do fun things [like pick up kittens], so being one probably wouldn't be too rough.

Could you take the basic framework of 4e without any of its frills, and run the "real world" people as level 1 characters, but without powers, class abilities or the ability to level up? Maybe steal the skill list from Spycraft or d20 modern (or at least tweak the 4e list to lose the magic stuff and gain Driving, Piloting and Computers) and make it available for them.

That way you'd have average schmo characters "out of game," a unified core game mechanic (which would be easier on everyone playing), and a video game that would feel different (characters would be empowered, have a 'toolbar' of attacks to manage, be elfs, etc.).

I hope that helps! (Or, if it doesn't, that it didn't take too long to read :smalltongue:)

Rixx
2011-04-25, 02:58 PM
Allow me to be the first to recommend True20. It's very flexible and combines the customization and flexibility of the d20 system with rules-lightness and fast play. Plus, it's got compatible rules for both modern games and supernatural powers and creatures right in the core book. Should be pretty familiar to any D&D player to pick up!

SurlySeraph
2011-04-25, 07:40 PM
Ahh I only have experiance with OWoD, werewolf and Mage in fact. It seemed alot of the things we were doing in the system were from being either a werewolf or a mage and not alot of thought was given to the human side of things. (if you know what I mean) of course it might just have been how we played it.

Is there a basic NWoD rule book then with the different supernatuals as seperate books ?

Yep. There's the main rulebook, and then you buy vamps and werewolves and suchlike separately.

UserClone
2011-04-25, 10:20 PM
I think the base NWOD game book has the rules for playing mortals, IIRC.

Sir_Mopalot
2011-04-25, 10:33 PM
Another for the NWoD core book. It first surprised me that it existed when I was getting into the system, and then really captured me. I love it.

Earthwalker
2011-04-26, 06:48 AM
I think I am going to try to get hold of a copy of nWoD and gumshoe and then see which I llike best from the two. Thanks for all the advice all.

Also


To avoid needing to make a new thread and since the OP has a similar (but differing) concept from me.

Once my in person game has finished I'm thinking of running a hybrid game where my players play ordinary people in a modern world who have just gotten a new MMO. The PCs will investigate happenings in the real world which are somehow also linked to their new game and will alternate between logging in as their characters as well.

I've already determined that the MMO will use D&D 4E (partially because I'm comfortable with it and partially to poke fun at the whole "Lol, 4e is like WoW" thing) but I have no idea what would work for the 'real world' part of the game. Any ideas?

I am so going to steal some of this for one story arc about MMOs, not sure how I am going to use it, will depend whats in the papers when the game starts.

hamlet
2011-04-26, 07:37 AM
I have played a bit of CoC and I liked it. Not sure if its what I am looking for tho. Not sure I can explain why.

Is it the system or the setting? If it's the setting, then don't worry, Chaosium publishes the system stripped of all the Cosmic Horror stuff as a universal game that's very good. Very adaptable and very utilitarian.

If it's the system, then, well, can't help you there.

Earthwalker
2011-04-26, 07:47 AM
Is it the system or the setting? If it's the setting, then don't worry, Chaosium publishes the system stripped of all the Cosmic Horror stuff as a universal game that's very good. Very adaptable and very utilitarian.

If it's the system, then, well, can't help you there.

It was alot more the setting then the system. I have played Runequest for a long time over lots of different editions and I like it alot. Also managed a small campaign of nephelim (is that how its spelt ?).

Not sure what it was about the CoC setting that I didn't like, I know I just didn't like it.

Currently I am playing RuneQuest 4e game and would rather go for something differnt for the modern day game. Odd I know, as its easier with systems you know but I like to change it up.

UserClone
2011-04-26, 08:36 AM
I'm liking what I have read of Esoterrorists so far. That'd be another vote for the GUMSHOE system.

Kiero
2011-04-27, 10:45 AM
Dresden Files works with or without it's default setting. If you don't need the setting, you only need the Your Story book. Combat isn't massively tactical and for mortals can be very nasty.

Goober4473
2011-04-27, 10:56 AM
GURPS is a great system for a seemingly regular modern world. It's very much a simulationist system, so it tends to feel "realistic."

hamlet
2011-04-27, 11:14 AM
Dresden Files works with or without it's default setting. If you don't need the setting, you only need the Your Story book. Combat isn't massively tactical and for mortals can be very nasty.

Or just grab the Fate book.

Tyndmyr
2011-04-27, 11:21 AM
Nobody said D20 Modern? Shame.

Wizard_Tom
2011-04-27, 11:27 AM
Unknown Armies is a good modern supernatural game. It even has multiple levels of supernatural (You'd want the lowest).

UserClone
2011-04-27, 11:30 AM
There's a reason for that. It doesn't effectively model what it's supposed to. There are better games.

Tyndmyr
2011-04-27, 11:33 AM
There's a reason for that. It doesn't effectively model what it's supposed to. There are better games.

D20 M is solid for a modern day game. What is it not modeling that it was supposed to?

I would expect complaints more along the lines of how silly the menace manual is(whoever made it seriously had a thing for clowns).

Kiero
2011-04-27, 11:39 AM
Or just grab the Fate book.

What FATE book?

Goober4473
2011-04-27, 12:05 PM
There's a reason for that. It doesn't effectively model what it's supposed to. There are better games.

I think it models what it's supposed to pretty well. It's just what it models is action heroes, not realism. For a darker style game, it's not what you want. For Bruce Willis gets the crap kicked out of him and keeps on going, it's perfect.

UserClone
2011-04-27, 12:06 PM
Fate2, Fudge edition, OR just the SotC SRD.

Both are available in PDF format.


D20 M is solid for a modern day game. What is it not modeling that it was supposed to?

Well I have D20 Modern. It ends up playing out like D&D, but D&D's assumptions about acquiring experience, treasure, and armor don't work in the modern day.

Additionally, the Advanced Classes are very unbalanced with one another, which seems counter to the base classes, which strike a splendid balance amongst themselves. For example, a Shadow Slayer is WAY more powerful than, say, a Daredevil, on the whole, but a Fast Hero is pretty well the equal of a Tough Hero.

And I don't have anything nice to say about the Wealth system, except that at least they tried.

Bang!
2011-04-27, 12:42 PM
D20 M is solid for a modern day game. What is it not modeling that it was supposed to?
d20 Modern is a tactical combat game. It has loads of rules and stats to track, and they're almost all about fighting. If a game isn't about fighting, that's extra paperwork. It also sets a violent tone which is inappropriate for many genres.

There are games that actively support investigation (outlining interesting procedures to create a mystery or extrapolate from clues). d20 Modern is not one of them. Many of its rules hurt that playstyle (the skill system -- especially the Investigation, Search, Sense Motive and Gather Information skills -- turns many of the genre's staple scenes into a d20 roll and success/failure response, where a game built for the job would involve problem-solving or narrative exercises).

Jayabalard
2011-04-27, 01:00 PM
GURPS is a great system for a seemingly regular modern world. It's very much a simulationist system, so it tends to feel "realistic."+1 for GURPS. Think of it as a framework for a game system rather than a game system on it's own. Pick up a few supplements related to the genres you want to work in, and use them as much or as little as you want to get the mix right.

Earthwalker
2011-04-27, 01:12 PM
Nobody said D20 Modern? Shame.

Now I don't own D20 modern and have never played it, but from what I have heard it isn't what I am looking for. I think it seems that the main focus for overcoming challenges is combat.

Its more a game of heros then normal people.

Of course if what I think I know is wrong I would be more then happy to be re-educated.

Earthwalker
2011-04-27, 01:15 PM
GURPS is a great system for a seemingly regular modern world. It's very much a simulationist system, so it tends to feel "realistic."



+1 for GURPS. Think of it as a framework for a game system rather than a game system on it's own. Pick up a few supplements related to the genres you want to work in, and use them as much or as little as you want to get the mix right.

I tried Gurps I think it was second edition. Played a fantasy game in the madlands (think thats what it was called) I did like the system and the detail that went into characters.

whats the current edition and what books (as in how many books) do you think I would need for a modern setting.

While I am here still posting in this thread, can I say thanks to you all. This is all very useful

Goober4473
2011-04-27, 01:23 PM
I tried Gurps I think it was second edition. Played a fantasy game in the madlands (think thats what it was called) I did like the system and the detail that went into characters.

whats the current edition and what books (as in how many books) do you think I would need for a modern setting.

4th Edition is current. All you need is the Basic Set (two books: Characters and Campaigns) to run most games. Really, the majority of the other books are just fluff and examples of how to use the rules that already exist. If you want to do weirder stuff with lots of special abilities, Powers is your friend, and if you want to do more then a small amount of magic, Magic is a good book to have.

Jayabalard
2011-04-27, 01:54 PM
I tried Gurps I think it was second edition. Played a fantasy game in the madlands (think thats what it was called) I did like the system and the detail that went into characters.That's gurps fantasy II (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/madlands/)


whats the current edition and what books (as in how many books) do you think I would need for a modern setting.Current is 4th edition. You'd need the basic setm which in 4e has been split out into 2 books: Characters, and Campaigns.

Full 4e book list here (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/fourth.html); you can use earlier editions as well, especially if you're looking for fluff out of them rather than crunch. They're generally good sources for that sort of thing.

Other books would be optional; Stuff like powers, martial arts, action, high tech, and Horror could all come in handy.

Mr.Bookworm
2011-04-27, 03:24 PM
Nobody said D20 Modern? Shame.


On the other hand, though, are you and your group D&D players? If you are, it might be easier to just go with d20 Modern, which is fairly decent, and a lot easier to pick up then learning a new system.

:smallwink:

Also, Tom is correct. Unknown Armies is fantastic. Maybe not what you're looking for, though.

Darth Stabber
2011-04-28, 01:01 AM
Unknown armies is the only rpg that I don't own that I wish I did, and is amazing for the exact thing you are talking about. The rules for magic are crazy (your character actually has to go crazy to learn it), but in a good way.

GURPS is for steve jackson fanboys, and it's not actually a good game. It's overly complex, often for no good reason, and character generation is a mess. Avoid it. Ditto hero system and anything palladium.

I'm currently playing an investigator in d20M and I can say that it is a messy system for anything other than hack and slash. It favors combat, and if anyone tells you that the classes are balanced, they are wrong. Strong and Tough Heroes really get the short end of the stick, the rest are okay.

Tyndmyr
2011-04-28, 05:36 AM
Now I don't own D20 modern and have never played it, but from what I have heard it isn't what I am looking for. I think it seems that the main focus for overcoming challenges is combat.

Its more a game of heros then normal people.

Of course if what I think I know is wrong I would be more then happy to be re-educated.

To a certain extent, it is a game of heroes. However, much less of one than in D&D.

Consider, a typical rifle deals about 2d10 damage without feats, traits or anything, and if you take >con damage in a hit, you need to make a DC 15 fort save or drop unconscious. A single bullet from even a relatively untrained person remains quite dangerous for quite a few levels. And that's before we count crits. Crits are always dangerous, since no way exists to negate a 1 on a saving throw, and there is no way to boost con enough to avoid massive damage from crits entirely. Larger weapons get increasingly dangerous. There is no level at which powerful explosions cease to be horrifyingly dangerous, for instance.

As a result of the increased lethality of average attacks compared to D&D, a lack of access to magical buffs(even if you play with magic, caster classes are prestige classes, not base classes. Spells cap out at level 5. Specialization does not exist. Domain spells do not exist. They have less base slots than even generalist wizards in D&D)....combat is a LOT more dangerous.

The logical action is to avoid combat where possible, and when you do have combat, you approach it in a very tactical way, utilizing stealth, cover, etc to minimize exposure.

Fully half of the base classes are not very combat based(The mental stat based ones). Of the other three, a fast hero has a fairly non-combat track based around rapid movement. You CAN play it as a combat game quite easily yes, but there is no particular reason you would have to. Rules exist for other things, like hacking. I do suggest using the modern price conversion rules for technological things instead of using the tables, though. Tech prices have changed a lot since then.

Like any other game, certain optimization does exist. Strong has pretty terrible ability tracks. Of course, it is the only full BaB class in the game, and full BaB is intentionally rare in D20M. So...it still has use in certain optimized combat builds. Balance is stellar compared to 3.5. It's still not perfect, though.

It's biggest advantage is that it's dead easy to use coming from 3.5, and it works well enough for modern games. Just inform your players before creation that it won't be a solely combat game, and demonstrate the lethality of combat early on if they get too crazy violent(remember, modern law enforcement tends to be more efficient than medieval town guards at finding you), and you shouldn't have a problem.


Darth Stabber is completely correct with his assessment of GURPS and Hero System. Character Creation should not be a tedious, painful process requiring significant GM intervention.

hamlet
2011-04-28, 06:55 AM
What FATE book?

It's the system that Dresden Files runs on. SOTC essentially, by Evil Hat. Means you don't have to strip out the Dresden-isms.

Kiero
2011-04-28, 07:19 AM
It's the system that Dresden Files runs on. SOTC essentially, by Evil Hat. Means you don't have to strip out the Dresden-isms.

SotC isn't a generic FATE book, it's a pulp FATE spin. One with various bits and pieces (the roll up method of Stress in particular) that have been thoroughly disavowed and augmented in every later incarnation of FATE 3.0. It also requires a lot of work to make it do anything but a certain strain of heroic pulp.

If you want generic FATE, there's Strands of Fate, otherwise you're customising one of the existing games (SotC, Diaspora, Starblazer Adventures, Legends of Anglerre, Dresden Files, etc).

hamlet
2011-04-28, 09:00 AM
SotC isn't a generic FATE book, it's a pulp FATE spin. One with various bits and pieces (the roll up method of Stress in particular) that have been thoroughly disavowed and augmented in every later incarnation of FATE 3.0. It also requires a lot of work to make it do anything but a certain strain of heroic pulp.

If you want generic FATE, there's Strands of Fate, otherwise you're customising one of the existing games (SotC, Diaspora, Starblazer Adventures, Legends of Anglerre, Dresden Files, etc).

Mea culpa. I don't play the system, or even particularly care for it.

UserClone
2011-04-28, 09:28 AM
BOOM (http://www.faterpg.com/dl/FATE2fe.pdf). Now you have it.

Kiero
2011-04-28, 09:45 AM
BOOM (http://www.faterpg.com/dl/FATE2fe.pdf). Now you have it.

It's like calling a collection of marked-up building materials a house. Though in fairness it is at least more like a working game than the free versions of Fudge.