Need stock NPC soldiers (lv 3-7)

[Firechanter]

Before I get to the point, allow me to elaborate a bit on the background:

My upcoming campaign is going to have a military focus in a mid-magic setting, so I need, of course, soldiers. I don't believe in armies composed of level 1 warriors that can be killed by a common housecat, instead my concept for the "Good" side is a smaller but more elite army.

(Evils will rely on larger masses of lower-level troops, maybe lv 2-3, but have more spellcasters such as Warmages at their disposal.)

Soldiers would mainly operate in small mixed units (not unlike the typical adventuring party), although there will also be larger battles with lines and companies. In that case, they will still operate in lose formations, so enemy casters can't blast a whole platoon to hell with a single fireball. Also, at their level they actually stand a chance of surviving single fireballs and similar blasty spells.

A fresh trooper straight out of his training will be level 3, and if he survives his initial battles he'll quickly make 4th level and go from there. Most active soldiers will be level 4.

Basically I am wondering how to stat them. I was thinking separating between Light and Heavy Infantry, plus Ranged and Mounted troops.

* One type may be clad in Spiked Full Plate, armed with a Glaive or other reach weapon, on a Crusader chassis. I call this "Heavy Assault". Thanks to Devo maneuvers these should have great staying power (self-healing and all).

- what feats should I give these? Extra Granted Maneuver, Power Attack, Combat Reflexes?
If more feats are necessary, 1 or 2 levels of Fighter could be blended in.

* Also I was thinking of a Defensive type with Shield, but is that worth it? At these levels, it will be just 2-3 AC, forfeiting Reach and 2HPA. Is there any build to make sword&board worthwhile?

* Ranged: here I was thinking of a Ranger chassis with chainshirt and composite longbow, going the Archery route and picking the appropriate FE. Or are there any smarter routes?

* Mounted: this seems to be pretty straightforward; skill for Mounted Combat, Ride-by attack and Spirited Charge.

* Other: would it be worthwhile to use Warblades in this scenario? They don't get heavy armour, and their lowlevel maneuvers don't seem so suitable, but I may be mistaken.

Advancement -- roughly like this:
lvl 3: rookie
4: common trooper
5: lance corporal
6: corporal
7: sergeant
8+: officer (by merit)

Thoughts and ideas?

[Cog]

* Other: would it be worthwhile to use Warblades in this scenario? They don't get heavy armour, and their lowlevel maneuvers don't seem so suitable, but I may be mistaken.
At any level less than 6, a maneuver will by its nature be better than the single attack the NPC would otherwise get. For the few corporals and such, it depends on how hard it is for them to make their hits - if they're significantly lower level that iterative attack might not be doing them much good, and if they aren't lower, a handful of boosts/counters are still useful.

For ToB NPCs, and especially swarms of them, I'd suggest just giving them two or three relevant maneuvers. Don't keep track of expended/readied, just let them use them at-will and mix them up to taste. It helps set a theme for a squad to give them partly or all the same maneuvers as well.

[McSmack]

The main basis for having tons of low level warriors was that it's extremely expensive to arm a force of any considerable size with things like fullplate and heavy weapons.

Historically most armies consisted of barely trained folks with spears, shields and maybe some leather armor.

Going with a well equiped but smaller elite force is a bit more of a modern concept. I like it and I think it works well in a fantasy RPG setting.

The spiked armor with a reach weapon is a nice combination. Combat Reflexes would be good. Power Attack/Cleave would be nice too if they're going up agains low level mooks.

For defensive builds you could do sword and board with a spiked shield. That would give you a shield bash option or extra defense.

You could have some commander types with a bardic focus (bard/warblade?). Inspiring pwnage with some Perform (Oratory) or some such.

Rangers would make good ranged support, though I'm not sure about how cost effective composite longbows would be. Blasters would be good as well in that role, softening up the mobs before they get to the lines.

[Firechanter]

Going with a well equiped but smaller elite force is a bit more of a modern concept. I like it and I think it works well in a fantasy RPG setting.

Yeah, I basically developed that setup some time ago in a discussion what a "realistic" high-magic D&D setting would look like. My line of thought is that hordes of level 1 mooks are so useless that you are better off not fielding them at all.

I just go by NPC wealth-by-level, and that says that a full plate is totally within reach for a level 3+ character. It doesn't matter whether the individual or an organization pays for the gear.

For officers, btw, I guess I'll go by PC WBL.


For defensive builds you could do sword and board with a spiked shield. That would give you a shield bash option or extra defense.

Maybe Improved Shield Bash and Shield Charge or -Daze? What other Shield-Basher feats are there?


You could have some commander types with a bardic focus (bard/warblade?). Inspiring pwnage with some Perform (Oratory) or some such.

Oh yes, absolutely. I already have another thread running about that. Bardblade or Bardsader is just the way to go. I'm planning one recurring NPC officer as Bard 4 / Crusader X. With some optimization he should get his Inspire Courage to +4 or +5.


Rangers would make good ranged support, though I'm not sure about how cost effective composite longbows would be.

That's not a problem, we have a lot of margin there, since the Rangers don't need a Full Plate but a much cheaper cuirass / chain shirt.


Blasters would be good as well in that role, softening up the mobs before they get to the lines.

I'll have a look. Some artillery, why not.
BTW, I was also thinking of allowing black powder weapons. Although rules-wise they are rather pointless, I'm afraid.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Phalanx: Human Crusader, sword-and-board defensive
Only listing readied maneuvers
Crusader 3: Extra Granted Maneuver, Shield Specialization (heavy), Phalanx Fighting
Martial Spirit; Crusader's Strike, Vanguard Strike, Leading the Attack, Stone Bones, Shield Block

Crusader 4: Crusader's Strike, Vanguard Strike, Leading the Attack, Shield Block, Tactical Strike

Crusader 5: Crusader's Strike, Revitalizing Strike, Shield Block, Tactical Strike, Leading the Attack

Crusader 6: Formation Expert
Crusader's Strike, Revitalizing Strike, Shield Block, Tactical Strike, Bonecrusher

Crusader 7: Divine Surge, Crusader's Strike, Revitalizing Strike, Shield Block, Tactical Strike

They should each use a Trident to benefit from Formation Expert's third ability, and carry Javelins.

Tactics: Fight in a row shoulder to shoulder. If an adjacent ally gets hit use Shield Block. If anyone lands a Vanguard Strike or Leading the Attack, everyone attacks that foe. Heal whoever looks hurt. Use Formation Expert and Tactical Strike to advance on the enemy. Be the front line that will not break.

Myrmidon: Human Warblade/Fighter, offensive second row
Only listing readied maneuvers
Warblade 3: Iron Heart Aura, Combat Reflexes, Stand Still
Punishing Stance; Steel Wind, Moment of Perfect Mind, Emerald Razor

Warblade 3/ Fighter 1: Power Attack
Moment of Perfect Mind, Emerald Razor, Action Before Thought

Warblade 3/ Fighter 2: Hold The Line
Moment of Perfect Mind, Emerald Razor, Action Before Thought

Warblade 4/ Fighter 2: Cleave
Absolute Steel Stance or Punishing Stance; Iron Heart Surge, Moment of Perfect Mind, Emerald Razor, Action Before Thought

Warblade 5/ Fighter 2: (any bonus Warblade feat)
Iron Heart Surge, Moment of Perfect Mind, Emerald Razor, Action Before Thought

They should use Glaives and carry Javelins.

Tactics: Fight behind the Phalanx soldiers. Power Attack on a foe hit by Leading the Attack or Vanguard Strike, or Power Attack with Emerald Razor if available. Make every saving throw thanks to Diamond Mind maneuvers. Keep opponents from moving through gaps in the front line.

Templar: Human Paladin/Sorcerer/Spellsword/Abjurant Champion, melee and support
Listing Sorcerer spells known
Paladin 2/ Sorcerer 1: Harmonious Knight (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a) substitution level; grant Draconic Heritage at Sorcerer 1 instead of a Familiar; Melodic Casting, Dragonfire Inspiration, Practiced Spellcaster; get a Badge of Valor and Lesser Rod of Extend.
Enlarge Person, Mage Armor

Paladin 2/ Sorcerer 2: same as above.

Paladin 2/ Sorcerer 3: add Benign Transposition or Grease.

Paladin 2/ Sorcerer 4: Power Attack; add Web or Glitterdust.

Paladin 2/ Sorcerer 4/ Spellsword 1: add Shield and Wings of Cover.

Paladin 2/ Sorcerer 4/ Spellsword 1/ Abjurant Champion 1: add Stinking Cloud.

They should carry Glaives and Composite Longbows.

Tactics: Use Enlarge Person on as many Myrmidons as he can. Use Inspire Courage at +2 (or +2d6 energy damage) to buff allies, if more than one Templar is present one should inspire +2 and the others should each have a different energy type for DFI. Use spells to thwart opponents when possible, stay at the flanks of the formation and use Wings of Cover to protect allies.

That's all you get for now, have fun!

[Firechanter]

Those are pretty cool, thanks!

[Kuulvheysoon]

*For the sword/board-

Phalanx Fighting could be interesting. Limited to light weapons, of course, but bonus AC/Ref saves is never bad, especially for a low level fighter-type.

And it even counts as a [Fighter] feat.

[BRC]

I've been able to build a couple very nasty fighter NPC's. If you give them a good Strength and Dex, a Composite Longbow can deal loads of damage, then they switch to a melee weapon to mix it up in basic combat. Or you could give them Repeating Crossbows with bayonets.

Also, Cleric field medics and Warlock Snipers. Maybe they have Advanced Dire Wolves as trained warhounds.

[Firechanter]

On that note: I find it funny how they make it impossible to _actually_ simulate a classical Phalanx in D&D, or any kind of meaningful shield wall. A Greek Hoplite for instance had a large shield _and_ a long spear, with a short sword as backup. Romans had large or even tower shields and spears. Pretty much all pre-medieval warriors had spear and shield, for that matter. What does D&D allow for Phalanx Fighting? Short swords only. *rolleyes*

(Conan D20 had a feat for that, "Gunderland Pike and Shield" or something... wasn't terribly effective either iirc.)

FWIW, I offer the option to wield a Spear as one-handed Martial weapon, for anyone who wants to play a concept such as "Roman Legionary" or "Viking Warrior". And I don't see why Phalanx Fighting shouldn't allow at least One-handed weapons, for that matter.

P.S.:
There will be Clerics, but they won't all just be relegated to Medic status. I consider them prime Officer material as well.

[Greenish]

What is all this infantry? Grab Spirited Charge, Cleave and some White Raven and go to town!

[Edit]: Though if we're talking about shield walls, it should be noted that Shield Wall from HoB is pretty decent too.

[Firechanter]

Well, D&D combat (ignoring magic) is pretty melee-infantry centric in general. I think the common warfare methods should reflect this.

Of course there will also be cavalry, but these can only be used in open terrain. However in such a theatre they will be brutally effective. In difficult terrain you still need "boots on the ground".
Also, weapons can be set against a charge.

Anyway, Spirited Charge costs 3 feats. Cleave costs 2 feats. If the lancer is supposed to have both by 4th level, I guess we'll need 2 Fighter levels.

So maybe Human Warblade1/Fighter2/Warblade+1
Power Attack, Cleave, Mounted Combat, Ride-by Attack, Spirited Charge
Full Plate, Heavy Shield, MW Lance; Sword as backup weapon.
Heavy Warhorse, military saddle, light chain barding.

Would wielding the lance 2-handed while mounted be too cheesy? Forsaking the shield, damage would really go through the roof. Granted, at Str 18 even a one-handed spirited charge will probably suffice to reliably one-shot any enemies of similar level - if they hit.

Attack: +4 BAB +4 Str +1 MW +1 Mount +2 Charge = +12
Damage: 3d8+12 ~ 25,5

So that seems to be all-or-nothing, since it's impossible at this level to get a hit chance anywhere near 95%. Even if the typical enemy has only AC 18, one out of four attacks will miss.
This not taking maneuvers into account, but: pretty much all available maneuvers only increase damage, but not hit chance. We don't really need damage increase since 25 points is already enough for the expected opposition. The few maneuvers at this level that do increase attack don't work on a charge.
What we would need is something that increases the attack bonus on a charge. Any suggestions?

[Greenish]

What we would need is something that increases the attack bonus on a charge. Any suggestions?Bard!

Or you could pass the Mounted Combat line and grab Education/Knowledge Devotion. Might make space for Greater Cleave too, since you'd be one-shotting enemies with a reach weapon.

[Edit]: There was a fighter or barbarian variant somewhere who got 90° turn during a mounted charge. Combo with Ride-by Attack and maybe snag mounted archery too. Drop heavy armour and skirmish.

[Hopeless]

Before I get to the point, allow me to elaborate a bit on the background:

My upcoming campaign is going to have a military focus in a mid-magic setting, so I need, of course, soldiers. I don't believe in armies composed of level 1 warriors that can be killed by a common housecat, instead my concept for the "Good" side is a smaller but more elite army.

(Evils will rely on larger masses of lower-level troops, maybe lv 2-3, but have more spellcasters such as Warmages at their disposal.)

Advancement -- roughly like this:
lvl 3: rookie
4: common trooper
5: lance corporal
6: corporal
7: sergeant
8+: officer (by merit)

Thoughts and ideas?

I'd turn this on its head by including evil aristocrats as most of its officer corps, throw in a fighter level or two if you want them particularly bad ass, might work better if you look at the PCs level.

If 2 players have them run into a couple of rookie guards (Warrior 1st) perhap with a sergeant in command (Warrior/Fighter 1st/1st) with the clear option that they can run if it looks bad since the heavier armoured guards can't keep up if they're lightly armoured.
4 players have a squad of 3-6 warriors 1st commanded by a couple of officers (say an Aristocrat/Fighter 1st/2nd and Aristocrat/Wizard 1st/1st).

If they're high level then your original suggestion would be fine but I'm hoping I haven't missed anything since I assumed you were asking about appropriate levels for bad guy patrols in regards to the PCs.

[WinWin]

Warrior 3. Seige Engineer. Relevant Profession skill maxxed. Ballista Proficiency.

Warrior 6. Seige Captain. Ballista Proficiency, Expert Seige Engineer.

In a pinch they will do for catapult operators as well.

[Greenish]

There was a fighter or barbarian variant somewhere who got 90° turn during a mounted charge. Combo with Ride-by Attack and maybe snag mounted archery too. Drop heavy armour and skirmish.Yeah, found that. Dragon #310, Horseman fighter variant. You get to make several turns up to 90° while charging. Light warhorse, lance and composite longbow, and they don't need much else to harass enemy troops. Might slap a ranger level or two for better scouting.

Say, ranger2/horseman2. Spirited Charge line, Mounted Archery, (ranger's) Rapid Shot, (horseman's) Quick turn. Also tracks & scouts.

[Runestar]

Make them all dragonblooded with that draconic armour feature from dragon magic. Now all of them come with free fullplate. :smallamused:

[Greenish]

Make them all dragonblooded with that draconic armour feature from dragon magic. Now all of them come with free fullplate. :smallamused:Oh, nifty. Also, Silverbrow humans come with Feather Fall as an SLA. Paratroopers!

[Firechanter]

Bard!

Yes, of course! I'll have Bardblade and Bardsader leaders/officers anyway, just forgot to factor them in here.


Or you could pass the Mounted Combat line and grab Education/Knowledge Devotion. Might make space for Greater Cleave too, since you'd be one-shotting enemies with a reach weapon.

Great Cleave sounds great, but Knowledge Devotion; I don't know. It's certainly great for PCs, but for NPCs it might not be so fitting.
Well, so maybe Great Cleave will be reserved for especially elite troops that have made 6th level.


[Edit]: There was a fighter or barbarian variant somewhere who got 90° turn during a mounted charge. Combo with Ride-by Attack and maybe snag mounted archery too. Drop heavy armour and skirmish.

Ah I get the idea. You charge in a 45° angle to the front line, make your attacks and rebound. It's funny how D&D rules create weird combat setups like that.

What would be really cool would be to recreate something like a "Rohirrim Charge", i.e. Great Cleave and keep moving between cleave attempts.
Conan D20 actually has a feat for that, but iirc it only works while in Fighting-Madness (Rage).
Maybe I'll homebrew a feat for that. But even then, the necessary levels add up real quick...


If they're high level then your original suggestion would be fine but I'm hoping I haven't missed anything since I assumed you were asking about appropriate levels for bad guy patrols in regards to the PCs.

I'm afraid you misunderstood. Mainly I am trying to figure out NPC soldier builds for the players' side, i.e. Good. The "Advancement table" is the typical distribution of levels in my campaign as I plan it.

The opposition (i.e. Evil side) will be more mookish, but not to the extreme. Instead of level 1 warriors, they may be level 2-3 Fighters and/or Barbarians or stuff like that, _but_ considerably more numerous than the Goodies. (I am sure there is a trope name for this.)
Evil mooks will not have access to ToB classes. Special evil NPCs may do, though.

[Greenish]

There are some magic items that would quite likely be prominent in levels 3-7. For example, I imagine Steadfast Boots would be pretty much standard equipment for pikemen, myrmidones etc.

[Coidzor]

For the officers, this bit on leadership mechanics (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3065.0) is something to consider.

[Runestar]

This makes me wonder...

How many ACFs exist that serve as alternatives to gear? I am wondering how cheaply we can twink out the soldiers? :smalltongue:

For example, soulknives for free weapons etc.

[Greenish]

For example, soulknives for free weapons etc.Incarnates get free weapon too, as well as other fancy trinkets. Not to mention totemists.

[Coidzor]

Psychic Warriors get an ACF that lets them get Soulbound Weapon for less cost than it normally costs them to use it.

And can easily have pre-selected suites of powers.


Yeah, found that. Dragon #310, Horseman fighter variant. You get to make several turns up to 90° while charging. Light warhorse, lance and composite longbow, and they don't need much else to harass enemy troops. Might slap a ranger level or two for better scouting.

Say, ranger2/horseman2. Spirited Charge line, Mounted Archery, (ranger's) Rapid Shot, (horseman's) Quick turn. Also tracks & scouts.

How many Fighter levels have to be invested in that in order to get ride-by-attack to be useful-ish? Two? Just one?


Also, Cleric field medics and Warlock Snipers. Maybe they have Advanced Dire Wolves as trained warhounds.

Point. With the abilities of men like Bubs (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7097263&postcount=38)at the disposal of nations, trained combat animals are even more easily exploited than they were IRL. And without the side effect of losing fingers to the mastiffs one was training to rip armored men off of horses.

Or of having elephants decide they wanted to destroy all humans randomly because they were in their mating season or something.

I wonder what animals have a nice birthrate and maturity rate and are a good threat on the battlefield.

...For some reason, the reptillian based options seem the most likely, especially if one opens up the possibility of BoEF or fluff-based magic to have them produce and lay more eggs than they normally do, so that one can take direct control over how many new reptillian beasties one is potentially getting.

Then again, on the other hand.... Mules are 8 gp and can easily be levied by even a nation down on its luck and turned into warbeasts in a matter of weeks.

And you'll probably wanna look up Howdah rules if they exist so that you can have elephants be mobile archery platforms while getting their Stampy on.

[Greenish]

How many Fighter levels have to be invested in that in order to get ride-by-attack to be useful-ish? Two? Just one?Just one, you can select it on place of any fighter bonus feat. It actually allows you to make your mount's dex mod amount of up to 90° turns during a single mounted charge.

A magebred warhorse could turn thrice.

[Essence_of_War]

On that note: I find it funny how they make it impossible to _actually_ simulate a classical Phalanx in D&D, or any kind of meaningful shield wall. A Greek Hoplite for instance had a large shield _and_ a long spear, with a short sword as backup. Romans had large or even tower shields and spears. Pretty much all pre-medieval warriors had spear and shield, for that matter. What does D&D allow for Phalanx Fighting? Short swords only. *rolleyes*

(Conan D20 had a feat for that, "Gunderland Pike and Shield" or something... wasn't terribly effective either iirc.)

FWIW, I offer the option to wield a Spear as one-handed Martial weapon, for anyone who wants to play a concept such as "Roman Legionary" or "Viking Warrior". And I don't see why Phalanx Fighting shouldn't allow at least One-handed weapons, for that matter.


Shortspears are fine right?

From the SRD:

Shortspear
A shortspear is small enough to wield one-handed. It may also be thrown.

[Greenish]

Shortspears are fine right? The martial version is called trident.

[Firechanter]

Shortspear is just 1d6, which is ok for a simple thrown weapon, but a bit lacking for martial classes.

Trident simply is a diffent fluff. For instance, I would also allow to wield the Trident as two-handed simple weapon, i.e. like a spear.

Anyway, back to topic:

Spellcasters. I was looking at Warmage but their spell list is so atrocious, they could really only function as artillery and nothing else. At least _something_ like camouflage, invisibility, mass bull strength or a few other utilities wouldn't have been too much to ask, would it?
And as insult comes to injury, the designers further mock you by allowing you to take a few extra spells... from the Evocation school. Right! Because we don't have enough blasty **** in our arsenal yet!

So... maybe some Warmages but not too enthusiastic about it...

Possibly some pure Bards focussing on casting, but I'm not too proficient with these. Any suggestions, spell/feat selection, nothing too fancy?

[Coidzor]

Shortspear is just 1d6, which is ok for a simple thrown weapon, but a bit lacking for martial classes.

The dice aren't the source of damage for martial classes anyway. Sword and Board is not well supported in any case, so it doesn't matter if you gave them a 2d6 one-handed spear with reach, really.