Swordsage, fighter and shadowdancer, BUILD HELP

[Elrihm]

Ok, so for an assassin themed campaign that I will be running eventually, I decided to play a human swordsage wielding a spiked chain focused on the One Shadow Hand, with 2 ranks in fighter (for the feats) and one rank in shadow dancer.

Now, what I need help with is qualifying for shadow dancer. My guy needs combat reflexes,dodge, mobility just for that. To be combat effective he needs powerful build (for trip attempts etc.), weapon finesse, exotic weapon prof. (spiked chain), and shadow blade. How to I get what I need and qualify for shadowdancer as well, all as soon as possible, hopefully at 6 or 7.

The big point to taking shadow dancer is the lvl one hide in plain sight, which allows you to hide in the open as long as you're within 10 feet of shadow, and Child of the Night from One Shadow Hand that says if you move 10 feet, you are covered in shadow that grant concealment, but not camouflage. The two combined would give mobile hide-in-plain sight, which is awesome for an assassin character.

[ILM]

There's so many better ways to get HIPS. Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis in ToM, Assassin 8, etc. Permanent collar costs 22k and gets you lots of other goodies.

[Wings of Peace]

Depending on material available may I recommend Umbral Disciple from Magic of Incarnum? Two essentia nets you the power to HiPS at ANY time as well as a 20% miss chance with far less required in the feat department.

[Elrihm]

How long does the embrace of shadow last?

[Wings of Peace]

How long does the embrace of shadow last?

It functions like a soulmeld. It lasts until you move your essentia elsewhere. :smallsmile:

[Keld Denar]

You got some direct contradictions in your desired material. You seem to be wanting a Dex focus (Weapon Finesse), yet you want to use Str based tactics (Powerful Build). Unless your stats are amazing, you're probably not going to want to do one or the other. Note, you can still be Str focused and benefit from Shadow Blade, as SB adds to your Str. I'd still focus on Str first and Dex second (or 3rd, or 4th, behind Con and/or Wis).

Also, consider Hit-and-Run fighter ACF from Drow of the Underdark. Might be worthwhile if you don't plan on wearing heavy armor (which you don't sound like).

[Elrihm]

Yeah, I'm going back through and cutting out the fat. Powerful build was the first to go. It was more nice than necessary. Also, THAT IS AWESOME ABOUT SOULMELDS. MUST DO THIS.

[Wings of Peace]

You got some direct contradictions in your desired material. You seem to be wanting a Dex focus (Weapon Finesse), yet you want to use Str based tactics (Powerful Build). Unless your stats are amazing, you're probably not going to want to do one or the other. Note, you can still be Str focused and benefit from Shadow Blade, as SB adds to your Str. I'd still focus on Str first and Dex second (or 3rd, or 4th, behind Con and/or Wis).

Also, consider Hit-and-Run fighter ACF from Drow of the Underdark. Might be worthwhile if you don't plan on wearing heavy armor (which you don't sound like).

He should ask his DM how they rule Shadow Blade. The main box says it adds to your str but the summary box on the feat table says it outright replaces your strength if I remember right.

[Draz74]

Spiked Chain can wait for higher levels if you're feat-starved. At low levels, a Guisarme should be just as good at giving you reach and tripping capability. I guess the switch to Spiked Chain is slightly more appealing for a Shadow Hand Swordsage since they get a Weapon Focus effect with it, but I still wouldn't make it your highest-priority feat choice.

[Elrihm]

Well, now I'm trying to decide whether to take 10 ranks in umbral disciple or not. Missing out on those maneuvers and stances would suck, but kiss of the shadows looks awesome. As does 70% miss chance.

EDIT: I forgot child of the night. so more close to 90-95% miss chance.

[Keld Denar]

Miss chances don't generally stack. You take which ever one is highest and apply it in every circumstance its most applicable, applying other miss chances if the highest doesn't apply. Similar to stacking DR.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Miss chances don't generally stack. You take which ever one is highest and apply it in every circumstance its most applicable, applying other miss chances if the highest doesn't apply. Similar to stacking DR.

Do you have a rules quote for that? I thought they stacked and I want to be sure.

[mabriss lethe]

I think that was a clarification in rules compendium

[Dusk Eclipse]

I think that was a clarification in rules compendium

Oh crap... I don't have that book; but that means that doesn't apply to me right :smallamused: [/joke]

[Elrihm]

found it. pg 32 of the rules compendium,

"Multiple concealment conditions don't stack. If a creature receives miss chances from multiple sources, such as from being incorporeal and having concealment, only the highest miss chance applies."

Well that sucks. :smallyuk:

Hmm, well I don't know if 7 more levels is worth kiss of death now. Probably not. Also, no need for child of night after third.

[Draz74]

Think about it ... if miss chances did stack, it would be pretty easy to get a 100% miss chance. :smallyuk:

[Curmudgeon]

There's so many better ways to get HIPS. Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis in ToM, Assassin 8, etc. Permanent collar costs 22k and gets you lots of other goodies.
Yeah, but what it doesn't get you is Camouflage, or some other means of bypassing the Hide requirement of cover/concealment. That's the chief difference between the Supernatural Hide in Plain Sight (Shadowdancer, Assassin) and Extraordinary (Ranger, Scout, Dark Creature template); only the Supernatural versions have a statement like this:
Hide in Plain Sight (Su)

A shadowdancer can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as she is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, a shadowdancer can hide herself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind.
Those Extraordinary HiPS versions only cover the "not being observed" requirement.

[tyckspoon]

He should ask his DM how they rule Shadow Blade. The main box says it adds to your str but the summary box on the feat table says it outright replaces your strength if I remember right.

Strictly speaking, there's no conflict. The actual text of the feat is the rule. The table summaries are just for ease of reminding you where the feat is and generally what it does; they are not in any way rules (if they were, soulmelds wouldn't be anywhere near so fun. Only the basic shape effect is listed on those tables, no mention of the bind powers at all.) Shadow Blade gives you your Dex modifier in addition to your Strength modifier, so you can't safely dump Strength entirely. Not that you would want to on a trip build.