[Pathfinder] Oracle - optimization possible?

[Rickshaw]

So I recently started playing an oracle (real recently, just finished the first session,) and I'm impressed. Divine sorcerer with extra junk? EXACTLY what I've been lookin for. Unfortunately, the mysteries aren't quite what I was hoping. The only ones that offer some seriously hard hitting stuff (in my opinion) are the elemental ones, but the capstone "Final Revelation" is awful. so here's my question: Are there other Mystery options than the ones listed in the APG? also: what classes would make good for combining with the oracle for a true gish, or even heavy divine caster?

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Maybe wait for the Ultimate Magic book? That's supposed to have some new mysteries, I think.

[NamelessNPC]

The Lore mistery lets you use charisma for AC and reflex saves instead of dexterity (sidestep secret revelation) and for all knowledge checks (lore keeper revelation). If you take at least 2 levels of paladin (Or antipaladin, for that matter), you also get charisma to all your saves. That could be a decent gish, I think, greatly reducing the reliance on different abilities scores.

[satorian]

The Heavens Oracle with Awesome Display is quite potent, unless you are in an undead campaign or somesuch. Rainbow pattern the giants off the cliff. Do things with Cha-synergy, like the Lore tricks listed above, perhaps combined with 3.5's Force of personality. In a game I played, I turned my Oracle into a diplomancer.

The real weakness of Oracle as I found it is that spontaneous casting isn't as good for divine casters, especially without access to Spell Compendium. Neutralize poison just isn't something someone with so few spells known can take. This lies in contrast to sorcerer, who can get by with shadow conjuration and such, as wizard spells tend to be more versatile.

[Ashram]

Maybe wait for the Ultimate Magic book? That's supposed to have some new mysteries, I think.

What he said. There will be more mysteries and curses for oracles in UM.

[Rickshaw]

arg okay. when is the release date for the UM? I can't seem to find it anywhere?

[satorian]

Also, you asked about true gish. Have you tried a battle oracle into rage prophet? I haven't seen it in action, but looks fun.

[jmelesky]

arg okay. when is the release date for the UM? I can't seem to find it anywhere?

PDF is available May 18th. Not sure about the hardback.

[Mojo_Rat]

The power of an Oracle and its mysteries really depends onw hat you are trying to do. Several of them are really good for their specialized fields and the others are at worst Okay.

Battle Oracle probly is a better melee combatant than a battle cleric for example.

Life Oracle is a better healer Etc.

The diference thogh is its really only as long as you stay within their specialty that they are stronger than a cleric which is when the lack of versatility bites you in the ass.

[Rickshaw]

ARGLFARGLE....that's worse than waiting for PSN to come back online.

as far as the rage prophet goes: It looks interesting alright, and it's capable of laying down some heavy combat AND some nice spells, but I've got one problem with it. the Savage Seer ability only affects the effects of rage powers and revelations already gained. it also doesn't stack with Barbarian levels for determining the number of rounds of rage per day. That means that at the soonest lvl you can start rage prophet (minimum of two lvls in barbarian) your only raging 6+unbuffed con modifier rounds per day.

that's hardly a rage at all IMO.

[Mojo_Rat]

The reason it is laid out that way is There would be no reason ever to do full barbarian if They stacked. I think to be honest the PRC is designed with Barbarian primary and Oracle secondary as part of its theme.

That said taking extra rage once should solve most of your problems.

[stainboy]

as far as the rage prophet goes: It looks interesting alright, and it's capable of laying down some heavy combat AND some nice spells, but I've got one problem with it. the Savage Seer ability only affects the effects of rage powers and revelations already gained. it also doesn't stack with Barbarian levels for determining the number of rounds of rage per day. That means that at the soonest lvl you can start rage prophet (minimum of two lvls in barbarian) your only raging 6+unbuffed con modifier rounds per day.


That class looks badly underpowered. 7/10 casting, medium BAB, no class features that address action economy issues with buff spells. Straight cleric or oracle is a better "divine gish" than Rage Prophet in every possible way.

[Rickshaw]

I like the idea of a charisma synergy with a paladin. I also think it might work with sticking in some sorcerer levels and going with mystic theurge. possibly even summoner?

unfortunately it still doesn't seem to fill any role quite as well as a straight up cleric.

[Mojo_Rat]

no it does single roles straight up better than a cleric. the problem Is while a battle oracle is a far better physical combatant is better than a cleric. the cleric can change it's roles as needed because it can change it's spells. but the oracle can buff itself more often and more effectively often for it's niche roll.

I think they are balanced fin e but if you want to fill a narrow role the oracle is better

[satorian]

Er, the Paladin thing could be fun, or the sorcerer, but I hope your game is not very high-powered. You are a spont caster. Don't lose caster levels if you can avoid it.

Having played one, the Heavens oracle is hella bloody powerful. Go Aasimar, max CHA, get items, get Awesome Display. End every combat with your pattern spells. Your spell list isn't your thing. It is, admittedly, limited. Look at what your mystery can do. Heavens is great. Battle, out of the box, is a better combatant than a cleric or, arguably, several full BAB classes. The elementals are good for utility powers, not for their damage.

Oracle has its flaws. It needs more feats designed for it. It needs more PF cleric spells with versatility. Sure, more options in building would be nice. But it is by no means weaksauce.

[CTrees]

I also think it might work with sticking in some sorcerer levels and going with mystic theurge.
Bad Idea. At, say, level twelve? You're casting as an 8th level Sorceror and an 8th level Oracle, for two sets of 4th lvl spells, compared to the straight, spontaneous classes, with 6th lvl spells, and a lot of delicious class features. At lvl20, it's 14th and 16th casting - 7th and 8th lvl spells, again w/ minimal class features, compared to your peers with ninth level spells and capstones, which are really good. Wizard/Cleric Theurge can work because it ends up as 13/17 casting, still keeping a set of level nines and getting the extra level sevens as a bonus. You just loose way too much, and are way too far behind.


possibly even summoner?
Even worse, since an even or theurgic split has you loosing spellcasting and mysteries, you also end up with a very, very weak eidolon (yet another defining class feature you self-nerf). As to a dip, I'm not completely sure what an Oracle would gain from a few levels of Summoner, though I'll admit, picking up a mystery or two could give an interesting bonus to a Summoner, and you could pull little tricks, like taking the Lame curse and using your eidolon as a mount...

[Quirinus_Obsidian]

Summoner is one of the classes where multiclassing hurts the character more than anything else. Truthfully, most of the Pathfinder classes are like that; that's how they were (re)designed. Honestly, they could have gone without prestige classes, and made the base/core classes have even more archetypes than current. Look at the new Dragon Disciple: it's obviously Sorcerer flavored. It hardly makes sense for a Wizzie or Bard to enter the class. Why not make the Dragon Disciple a little more balanced, and call it an APG-style ACF?

I think the same goes for the Oracle too. The only tangible benefit for multiclassing with an Oracle is the aforementioned Paladin levels; even then it's hard to RP that into a character, outside of "the book doesn't say it can't be done". Outside of choosing the Curse and the Mystery, nothing can really be 'customized' for the character. Feats and spell selection are pretty much a given. My oracle idea was a 'deaf' oracle (gets basically free Silent Spell), taking the 'Still Spell' and 'Reach Spell' metamagic feats. Each of those are only a +1 spell level increase, and they are easy to obtain within the first 5 levels of the character.