League of Legends XIII: Our Skill is Hard to Deny

[Math_Mage]

So, I have been theory crafting a little.

My new kog'maw build. (Now I need to get kog'maw, doh).

Zerkers.
Bloodrazor
Malady
Void Staff
Frozen Mallet
Gunblade


Attack speed reds
Armor Yellows
Abilitiy power glyphs (scaling)
Move speed quints

Build obviously subject to some change.

Hmmm. Gunblade vs. Bloodthirster is mostly a non-issue for me--both are great items at that stage of the game. I feel like you need mp5 yellows instead of armor, especially if you don't build Manamune/AA Staff as Anatharon mentioned (and I'm not sure you have room to build them, honestly). Consider Wit's End when relevant (i.e. lots of mana-hungry champs and you need early damage compared to Bloodrazor rush).


On the topic of Janna's ult though, how does one use it correctly? Do you fly around behind the enemy and ult them into the rest of your team? Use it in combination with Anivia's Trollwall?

I've never really understood when the best time was to use it, myself.

Priority #1: If a WW is ulting your carry, or Mummy is ulting your team, ult them the hell away.
Priority #2: If you can split up their team, do it.
Priority #3: If your team jumps on one person and massacres him, you can ult the rest away to prevent a counter-initiation.
Priority #4: If your team needs to run the hell away, you give them a head start.
Priority #5: Sustain an objective capture (getting Baron, pushing towers, etc) by healing your whole team at once.

[Arbitrarity]

Hmmm. Gunblade vs. Bloodthirster is mostly a non-issue for me--both are great items at that stage of the game. I feel like you need mp5 yellows instead of armor, especially if you don't build Manamune/AA Staff as Anatharon mentioned (and I'm not sure you have room to build them, honestly). Consider Wit's End when relevant (i.e. lots of mana-hungry champs and you need early damage compared to Bloodrazor rush).



Priority #1: If a WW is ulting your carry, or Mummy is ulting your team, ult them the hell away.
Priority #2: If you can split up their team, do it.
Priority #3: If your team jumps on one person and massacres him, you can ult the rest away to prevent a counter-initiation.
Priority #4: If your team needs to run the hell away, you give them a head start.
Priority #5: Sustain an objective capture (getting Baron, pushing towers, etc) by healing your whole team at once.

Actually, for 1, I'd probably 'nado the WW. Using Monsoon as an interrupt is only optimal if tornado is down, and the issue is high-priority, such as 90% of channeled ults. I.e. Nunu, Kat, perhaps Malz, Fiddles channeling (or if he's alreadCAWCAWCAWCAWCAWCAWCAW)

[Math_Mage]

Actually, for 1, I'd probably 'nado the WW. Using Monsoon as an interrupt is only optimal if tornado is down, and the issue is high-priority, such as 90% of channeled ults. I.e. Nunu, Kat, perhaps Malz, Fiddles channeling (or if he's alreadCAWCAWCAWCAWCAWCAWCAW)

Good point. I meant to say that Monsoon is an interrupt for "OSHI-" ults, but maybe I didn't choose the best ones to illustrate that.

[Arcanoi]

So, I have been theory crafting a little.

My new kog'maw build. (Now I need to get kog'maw, doh).

Zerkers.
Bloodrazor
Malady
Void Staff
Frozen Mallet
Gunblade


Attack speed reds
Armor Yellows
Abilitiy power glyphs (scaling)
Move speed quints

Build obviously subject to some change.

The problem with AP/Hybrid Kog is that they're simply worse than AD Kog. AD Kog already does more than enough Magic Damage to force opponents to buy MR, and due to how Kog's abilities work, it's just more effective to attack than it is to cast them.

[Science Officer]

So I couldn't wait to try the new Gangplank.

Played one game, was very fed, very farmed, finished 9/1/5 with over 5k gold in inventory because I hadn't gone back to a while.
I've always liked gangplank, and the cd reduction on his q has made his farming a lot better, in my opinion.

So I decide to play another game. Laning with nunu against annie and teemo, I get first blood. This looks like it's going to be a repeat of the last one.
But then my latency shoots up to around ~3000 ms. I die several times to the enemy Kat due to being unable to control my character.

Our Yi starts swearing at me, calling me a noob (which has always struck me as funny, lvl 30s calling other lvl 30s noobs. to get to level 30 you'll have had to play at least a hundred games), and calls me a r*****. (why that word isn't censored in pvp chat, I'll never know) This continues even after I explain that my latency is making it difficult to play.

My latency eventually recovered, but due to myself and others on the team feeding Kat, she now had 20 stacks on mejai's. A quadra kill, and a penta kill later, we surrendered. Yi felt the need to swear at and insult me once more, and to let the enemy team know, as well.

So yeah. I had made this thread (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=716318) earlier today, before these games. Why doesn't LoL display players' latencies on the scoreboard?

[Math_Mage]

The problem with AP/Hybrid Kog is that they're simply worse than AD Kog. AD Kog already does more than enough Magic Damage to force opponents to buy MR, and due to how Kog's abilities work, it's just more effective to attack than it is to cast them.

Void Staff is the reason to play AP Kog, basically. While it's true that AD Kog still does a lot of magic damage, that very fact makes it difficult to apply multiplicative penetration stats, because each penetration stat only affects part of his damage. You can't apply his crit to the magic damage, you can't apply his CDR to physical damage, and so on. Because of BAB, both his AP and his magic penetration increase the efficacy of his autoattack, and meanwhile his other abilities become meaningful threats rather than AD Kog's utility/scouting tools.

[Terazul]

So I couldn't wait to try the new Gangplank.

Played one game, was very fed, very farmed, finished 9/1/5 with over 5k gold in inventory because I hadn't gone back to a while.
I've always liked gangplank, and the cd reduction on his q has made his farming a lot better, in my opinion.


The combined shortened cooldown with combined lowered gold per kill actually means you get less gold from parrrlay farming than you used to.

A pretty good treatise on new gangplank. (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=697830&highlight=morinav) Just don't get turned off by his humorous choice of language. He actually makes a point. Feel A Fear agrees!

[Mtg_player_zach]

The problem with AP/Hybrid Kog is that they're simply worse than AD Kog. AD Kog already does more than enough Magic Damage to force opponents to buy MR, and due to how Kog's abilities work, it's just more effective to attack than it is to cast them.

It's more attack speed kog than AP. AP is deathcap. Voidstaff is there for the bloodrazor. And Gunblade actually gives just as much AD as Bloodthirster. I was also under the impression that the best kog maw was always attack speed kog maw.

[Eldariel]

Now I wanna play Aegis/Mercs/Warmog/Atma's/FoN/Bloodrazor Shen.

[Science Officer]

The combined shortened cooldown with combined lowered gold per kill actually means you get less gold from parrrlay farming than you used to.

A pretty good treatise on new gangplank. (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=697830&highlight=morinav) Just don't get turned off by his humorous choice of language. He actually makes a point. Feel A Fear agrees!

I don't know. I found that, while laning, I was able to last hit more easily than previously. The cd just felt right, and the change in damage was insignificant. I was able to last hit pretty much every time it came off cd (felt very "in synch"), and rarely ran out of mana. I don't really see the nuke vs. sustain as a problem.

I never used raise morale to deny. The change to that seems like a terrific buff. Changes to his passive seem like a straight buff.

Also, I don't think his ult is any worse than it was before. Smaller radius, for a guarenteed slow. It still has problems, but it works just as well, I think.

[Eldariel]

Shen is stupid-good. Who needs damage items to carry as a tank?
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/1360/shenisstupid.png

[Terazul]

I never used raise morale to deny. The change to that seems like a terrific buff.
The new active doesn't stack with the new passive, whereas the old one would give both, so it's actually less than what the old one gave. It is also 6 seconds as opposed to 10.



Also, I don't think his ult is any worse than it was before. Smaller radius, for a guarenteed slow. It still has problems, but it works just as well, I think.
Guaranteed negligible slow that's worse than MF's E. And alot of less damage per hit.

[Eldariel]

New way of dealing with rage: Clam the duck down (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUmDuPVsWg0)

[Arcanoi]

The new active doesn't stack with the new passive, whereas the old one would give both, so it's actually less than what the old one gave. It is also 6 seconds as opposed to 10.


It's less AD, by 4 I believe. The new active Movement speed is 10% more than the Passive+Active of the old one.



Guaranteed negligible slow that's worse than MF's E. And alot of less damage per hit.

MF's only does 280 damage, total, if you stand in the entire thing. Contrast pirate ult, where a person standing still is likely to take about 600-700 damage at lvl3. Also, Global Range.


It's more attack speed kog than AP. AP is deathcap. Voidstaff is there for the bloodrazor. [...] I was also under the impression that the best kog maw was always attack speed kog maw.

The problem with this is that AD Kog'Maw still gets up to 2+ attack speed. Increasing the damage of your W+Madreds by ~35% isn't comparable to tacking 200 physical damage with a 55% chance to crit for 250% onto each of your attacks.



And Gunblade actually gives just as much AD as Bloodthirster.


Gunblade gives 60% of the AD of a Bloodthirster. Bloodthirsters get stacks.

[Tono]

Well, heres another thread about GP, not as good of a read, but contains the numbers. (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=703219) The biggest thing though is the lack of deny. It was godly in lane. being able to out level your lane by 1-2 levels or completely deny a solo the benefit of solo'n was amazing, and now he has a short buff that you have to trade for either survivability for damage early game.
Pre-patch between farming and kills/assist from his ulti I generally was able to get Boots2+chalice+Avarice Blade(Sometimes skipped)+ IE by the 17-25 minute mark, with bad games taking up to 31 minutes. (These were all normal games, bought Mekis+pot start, go back for boots and chalice +wards, boots2+avarice blade, never have to leave lane. Not the best but garunteed I could farm enough to get the kills quickly and duck in and out of battle spamming Remove Scurvy in between fights, and actually do damage) At which point you start steam rolling everything.
Now? I've only played 2-4 games as him because of exams, but the earliest I got my IE was the 27 minute mark, and his ulti is -much- more dependant that your team holds everyone in place. It works for mid-late game teamfights, but not for laning assist/finish kills. Baring ofcourse that they have 14 HP. Not to mention that you don't have the comfy luxury of out laning 2-3 of their champions and forcing them to push.

This is all jut my opinion ofc, but I guess I liked him so much I never saw the problem in the first place.

[Faulty]

New way of dealing with rage: Clam the duck down (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUmDuPVsWg0)

That was wonderful.

[Math_Mage]

The problem with this is that AD Kog'Maw still gets up to 2+ attack speed. Increasing the damage of your W+Madreds by ~35% isn't comparable to tacking 200 physical damage with a 55% chance to crit for 250% onto each of your attacks.

That's because you've bought an extra 5000g of items. Malady + Void Staff = cost of an IE alone. To get your 200 physical damage, 55% crit, and 2+ atk spd, you must be buying at least IE-PD-BT. As you say, they aren't comparable.


Gunblade gives 60% of the AD of a Bloodthirster. Bloodthirsters get stacks.

Gunblade's 75 AP will usually work out to equal the missing AD when looking at BAB-enhanced attacks, and that's not considering the extra potency of his ult. AP Kog snipes like nobody's business. I'm...not clear on how lifesteal and spell vamp interact with BAB/MBR/Malady/etc, but the spell vamp off Kog's ult balances the loss of lifesteal compared to a fully farmed Bloodthirster.

[Faulty]

Aspd Kog is an auto-attacker though. By the time you have your gunblade, your ult won't be doing enough damage for it to matter.

[Math_Mage]

Aspd Kog is an auto-attacker though. By the time you have your gunblade, your ult won't be doing enough damage for it to matter.

Yeah, I guess. You'd have to build some real AP and mana to make that work. It'd only turn out well in a comp designed to avoid teamfights and poke from long range (cuz he'd be awesome at that).

[Daverin]

New way of dealing with rage: Clam the duck down (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUmDuPVsWg0)

I love watching Grassy vids. I don't know how he makes LoL so amusingly funny.

[TechnOkami]

I love watching Grassy vids. I don't know how he makes LoL so amusingly funny.

We should get him onto GitP. :smallbiggrin:

[Inhuman Bot]

and apparently you also have to listen to this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZwhNFOn4ik)

You know, using a somewhat old meme in entirely the wrong way makes it more amusing.

[toasty]

You know, using a somewhat old meme in entirely the wrong way makes it more amusing.

It is. However, I warn you, if you follow these instructions you might just go really, really crazy. :smalleek:


I love watching Grassy vids. I don't know how he makes LoL so amusingly funny.

Yeah, Grassy is one of those guys that you have to love. He's not very good, but he's funny, so its okay. :smalltongue:

[Raistlin1040]

Worst. Team. Ever.

*eyetwitch* I'm cool with no tank comps. I've seen it work, I've seen it fail. So when I picked Nocturne and my team picked TF, Ez, Poppy, and Jungle Xin, I was like "Alright, fine." The other team's mid is Vlad. Not a particularly hard mid for Ez, but not an easy one either. He should be able to handle it. Bot lane is me and Poppy against Teemo and GP and top is TF solo against Kassadin and Cho'Gath. Poppy and I harass easily, until she decides to tower dive Teemo. That's Teemo, super fast character with a blind. She dies.

Vlad gets 4 early kills. He must've been running some kind of AP runepage because he was getting around 40 extra AP somewhere with no health items. He built two Hextech Revolvers (why have I never considered this as Vlad?) and proceeded to roll Ez a few more times. Ezreal then proceeds to rage in chat the first time I get killed that I'm the worst Nocturne ever and that our loss is entirely my fault, despite the fact that he is 0/5/1, bought a Soulstealer, and has around 10 minion kills, and I am 1/2/0 with a Ghostblade and around 40 minion kills.

He rages and tries to surrender at 20. We've already lost easily at that point, but I hit no anyway and TF doesn't answer. Ezreal rages (keep in mind all of his raging is in /All chat) that we're trolls and he's reporting us for trolling and intentional feeding. Again, at this point he's like 1/6/1 while I was I think 2/4. I didn't have a good game by any stretch (ended 4/10/1), but somehow his fabulous 1/7/1 game with 63 minion kills and a 1 stack Soulstealer makes him the victim in everything? I ended as the only person on my team with a kill that wasn't a fluke (Ez's kill was only because Vlad was trolling and stood by the tower to die on purpose), and I had 4 of them. I was also the only person who actually tried to help my team, by using my Fear and my Ult to help them escape.

[ZombyWoof]

P.S. you never considered hextech trolling as Vlad because it's not very good. SHHHHH!!! :smallwink:

[Math_Mage]

Okay, I know we've got some computer-savvy folks here. My game is...well, look at what my task manager's telling me:

http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac344/Math_Mage/5-4-11_WTFRAM.jpg?t=1304576707

I don't think LoL's supposed to be taking up 1 GB of RAM. It's completely unplayable. Can someone help? Or should I be asking the reds to fix their game?

Random details: I played a couple of Co-op v. AI games, and smurfed one normal game, and confirmed that the same thing is happening in both modes. I didn't have the same troubles when I played about 10 hours ago (new patcher downloaded and everything)--this problem is new. In all games I would lag down to 3-5 FPS whenever action was happening. You can imagine that teamfights were a nightmare. (I won, because it's a level 3 smurf, but still.)

[toasty]

My first thought is a firewall might be messing you up. Not sure how helpful that is.

[Moonshadow]

Sigh. I'm tired of abusive players who think that they know everything about the game and are just the bestest players ever.

I play bot games because it means I only have to put up with 4 other potential abusive fools, as opposed to 9 potentially abusive fools.

But yet I still keep running into the idiots who just call everyone names and just act like morons.

Like, last game. I was Anivia. It was my 3rd game with her, and I do okay with her. We ended up having 2 people idle out about 20 minutes in. The Sivir on our team starts screaming at us, calling us scrubs, saying that I was a fail Anivia because I only had 8 kills and I should be building a Frozen Heart and a Archangel's Staff (I was actually building a Rabadons right afterwards).

I hate people like this :smallsigh:

[Spartacus]

So I guess Ezreal is free this week. Insta-lock time.

[Moonshadow]

Okay, I'm really starting to think that AD Sona has it's merits. Or, at the very least, ASpd Sona.

I mean, her Heal sucks. Her ult is better used as a disruption tool than for damage. Her MSpd buff doesn't scale with AP at all (I think) and her Q is more of a poke/minion killer than it is burst damage.

I mean... give her Wit's End, Sword of the Divine, Phantom Dancer, Black Cleaver and Last Whisper... and you'd have something like 1.8 attacks per second, kill their armor, kill their mana, do a little extra damage with the SotD + you're spamming your Auras at the same time, so you have damage/heal/speed cycling, and if you're using Power Chord right, you'll have in on the extra damage constantly.

She can poke, heal a little and then escape as needed. I mean, she wouldn't be a tanky DPS, but I think she'd be a lot better than going AP right now.

[Nargan]

Okay, I know we've got some computer-savvy folks here. My game is...well, look at what my task manager's telling me:

http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac344/Math_Mage/5-4-11_WTFRAM.jpg?t=1304576707

I don't think LoL's supposed to be taking up 1 GB of RAM. It's completely unplayable. Can someone help? Or should I be asking the reds to fix their game?

Random details: I played a couple of Co-op v. AI games, and smurfed one normal game, and confirmed that the same thing is happening in both modes. I didn't have the same troubles when I played about 10 hours ago (new patcher downloaded and everything)--this problem is new. In all games I would lag down to 3-5 FPS whenever action was happening. You can imagine that teamfights were a nightmare. (I won, because it's a level 3 smurf, but still.)

I don't pretend to be computer savvy, but try going into control panel> list of installed programs> uninstall > there's something called Pando media booster that installs when LoL (and dawn of war 2 and many other games) install, and it basically uploads data to...somewhere, essentially taking up needless RAM and slowing your connection.

I doubt this is your problem, but give it a try anyway, since it can't hurt to get rid of it.

EDIT: Also, I'm done with LoL. It's just not fun anymore, I can't remember the last time I had a really fun time on that game. In contrast, WoW and team fortress 2... I can play for even 20 minutes, and have a lot of fun. Since time is a major issue for me now with exams coming up, that's a definite plus.

Maybe I'll hop over to the WoW thread :D

[Science Officer]

Okay, I'm really starting to think that AD Sona has it's merits. Or, at the very least, ASpd Sona.

I mean, her Heal sucks. Her ult is better used as a disruption tool than for damage. Her MSpd buff doesn't scale with AP at all (I think) and her Q is more of a poke/minion killer than it is burst damage.

I mean... give her Wit's End, Sword of the Divine, Phantom Dancer, Black Cleaver and Last Whisper... and you'd have something like 1.8 attacks per second, kill their armor, kill their mana, do a little extra damage with the SotD + you're spamming your Auras at the same time, so you have damage/heal/speed cycling, and if you're using Power Chord right, you'll have in on the extra damage constantly.

She can poke, heal a little and then escape as needed. I mean, she wouldn't be a tanky DPS, but I think she'd be a lot better than going AP right now.


I'm with Dogmantra on this subject, to me Sheen + Black Cleaver looks like the best kit for turning characters that aren't actually supposed to be DPS into DPS. On Sona, I'd also go for Manamune. I've tried this in a bot game, and, well, worked as good as anything does in a bot game, which is to say, very well.

Hmmm, but more chances to proc Power Chord sounds pretty good.

EDIT: Better than AP? I wouldn't go that far. Now that her spells have decent ratios, AP sona is pretty good. Rylai's and Archangel's are what you want. Her Q does do very good damage, I find, especially because of cooldown. The heal is not bad for the same reason. But yeah, Rylai's is a big part of why AP sona is good.

[Eldariel]

EDIT: Also, I'm done with LoL. It's just not fun anymore, I can't remember the last time I had a really fun time on that game. In contrast, WoW and team fortress 2... I can play for even 20 minutes, and have a lot of fun. Since time is a major issue for me now with exams coming up, that's a definite plus.

You should try to get some 5-man premades going; those tend to be more fun :smallwink:

[Zen Master]

I mean, her Heal sucks.

For a second there, I thought - are we playing the same champion here at all?!

Then I realised - um no, we're not, I play Soraka =)

Hrm, so yea. I'm completely impressed with Sorakas ability to sustain a push, as long as wounded champs remember to disengage and run back to me. But I've never played Sona, so I can't comment on her at all.

[Vauron]

I was messing around with Ezreal and noticed something odd: When I used Essence Flux with a Tear in my inventory, my max mana increased by 8, not 4. Is this a known bug or something? I'd ask on riot's forum, but that might get it fixed.

[term1nally s1ck]

It counts on cast and on hit. They've tried MANY times to fix it, and it keeps rebreaking.

Currently, I think it applies twice to tear, three times to manamune, and only once to rageblade. It just breaks codes by existing, apparently.

[Spinoza]

Okay, I'm really starting to think that AD Sona has it's merits. Or, at the very least, ASpd Sona.

I mean, her Heal sucks. Her ult is better used as a disruption tool than for damage. Her MSpd buff doesn't scale with AP at all (I think) and her Q is more of a poke/minion killer than it is burst damage.

I mean... give her Wit's End, Sword of the Divine, Phantom Dancer, Black Cleaver and Last Whisper... and you'd have something like 1.8 attacks per second, kill their armor, kill their mana, do a little extra damage with the SotD + you're spamming your Auras at the same time, so you have damage/heal/speed cycling, and if you're using Power Chord right, you'll have in on the extra damage constantly.

She can poke, heal a little and then escape as needed. I mean, she wouldn't be a tanky DPS, but I think she'd be a lot better than going AP right now.

I haven't tried it but wouldn't she be perfect for the Deathcap/Lichbane combination. With both those items she could hit almost 400AP and be able to bolt someone for roughly 1500 damage. Sounds like pretty good damage to me.

[Silverraptor]

I haven't tried it but wouldn't she be perfect for the Deathcap/Lichbane combination. With both those items she could hit almost 400AP and be able to bolt someone for roughly 2000 damage. Sounds like pretty good damage to me.

I usually get Lich bane on Sona. And then proceed to be an extra nuke on top of support. I remember being Carry Sona with a Lich bane once.:smallbiggrin:

[Dogmantra]

So two things, first off a question about Jarvan. Say there's an opponent in front of you with a Banshee's Veil, your flag is behind them. You lance 'em when their veil is up and hit the flag, pulling you to it. Question: does the damage from the lance alone break the BV and let them be knocked up, or is it just counted as one effect and they don't get knocked up or damaged?

Second thing is an amusing bug that may have always been there on Gangplank but I just noticed recently. I was laning with a Gangplank, forget who I was playing and I got a last hit on the same minion as the Plankgang had just Parrrrleyed. I got four bonus gold as if I'd killed the minion with Parrrrley. I'm not entirely sure if it's because the Parrrrrrley projectile was still travelling, or if I hit at exactly the same time, or if I hit just after, but somehow the game got confused and it was quite funny. I'd imagine it'd work with Ashe's Hawkshot gold too.

[Legoshrimp]

I doubt it would, since hawkshot is a passive ability. And I would think it would be harder to mess that up. Also I think that if there was a bug with ashe we would have seen it.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

So two things, first off a question about Jarvan. Say there's an opponent in front of you with a Banshee's Veil, your flag is behind them. You lance 'em when their veil is up and hit the flag, pulling you to it. Question: does the damage from the lance alone break the BV and let them be knocked up, or is it just counted as one effect and they don't get knocked up or damaged?

That's a really good question, and I honestly have no idea. It might be worth testing it. I suspect that the Q is one effect for the sake of programming simplicity...it fires, checks for flags, checks for enemies, and then triggers the dash, damage, and/or knock-up, but I could be wrong.

Edit: And I was right. From the League of Legends wiki...


* It has a brief channel time (0.2s) upon cast before it activates.
* It will break spell shields. The target won't be damaged, debuffed or knocked-up.
* Dragon Strike's damage and armor reduction will not be blocked by Black Shield, however the knock-up will.
* It benefits from 33% of Jarvan's Spell Vamp.
* It will proc Rylai's Crystal Scepter Rylai's Crystal Scepter 15% slow for 1.5 seconds after it hits a target.
* The skillshot is able to hit, debuff and knock-up invisible enemy champions, but it won't reveal them.
* It doesn't proc any On-Hit Effects.

[Daverin]

So I just thought of a question I should have asked earlier. Is it better to try to finish items, then move on to the next, or is it better to first have a few component items for several of your final items, and build into them later? For example, say someone has a core of... I don't know, let's just go with Ghostblade and Infinity Edge (I don't know if anyone does, this is just for an example.) Is it better for that person to rush one then the other, or get the items that build into both first, and then get them later on? Is there a general rule of thumb, or is it strictly based on the circumstances?

[Volatar]

So I just thought of a question I should have asked earlier. Is it better to try to finish items, then move on to the next, or is it better to first have a few component items for several of your final items, and build into them later? For example, say someone has a core of... I don't know, let's just go with Ghostblade and Infinity Edge (I don't know if anyone does, this is just for an example.) Is it better for that person to rush one then the other, or get the items that build into both first, and then get them later on? Is there a general rule of thumb, or is it strictly based on the circumstances?

Really it depends on the circumstances. If you need some stats now, rather than later, get components.

Sometimes I rush straight for an IE on Ashe, sometimes I grab the BFS and then get a Chain vest and/or Negatron Cloak before finishing the IE. It all depends on how the game is going.

[Adumbration]

I know it's kind of a moot point, but after IE and two PDs, what should you buy on Trynd? You're already maxing out criticals. Damage maybe? Arpen? Attack speed?

[Astrella]

Ghostblade? Stark's Fervor?

[toasty]

Stark's sounds good. A black cleaver might be nice.

[ex cathedra]

Black Cleaver, perhaps? Or Last Whisper, depending on the enemy team.

[Spartacus]

Yay! My computer died as I was joining a game and it turns out the PSU is shot. Luckily, it appears it didn't take anything else with it.

[Volatar]

This song is painful but slightly amusing. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWiawlC0cBY)

[Math_Mage]

So I just thought of a question I should have asked earlier. Is it better to try to finish items, then move on to the next, or is it better to first have a few component items for several of your final items, and build into them later? For example, say someone has a core of... I don't know, let's just go with Ghostblade and Infinity Edge (I don't know if anyone does, this is just for an example.) Is it better for that person to rush one then the other, or get the items that build into both first, and then get them later on? Is there a general rule of thumb, or is it strictly based on the circumstances?

Typically, offensive items want to be completed, while defensive items can sit around for a while as chain vests/negatron cloaks/giant's belts/HoGs etc. When you build offense, you're building items; when you build defense, you're building stats. It's unlikely you're going to start building Last Whisper when you're working on IE, but it's very likely you're going to start on that Omen while working on BVeil.

There are a few exceptions to this. Trinity Force, Madred's Bloodrazor, and Youmuu's Ghostblade all have useful single components (Sheen, Razor, Brutalizer) that will serve your needs while you build other things. You'll often see those items stay partially completed for a while.

[term1nally s1ck]

I know it's kind of a moot point, but after IE and two PDs, what should you buy on Trynd? You're already maxing out criticals. Damage maybe? Arpen? Attack speed?

Last Whisper, Starks/Bloodthirster.

[Adumbration]

Stark's sounds good. A black cleaver might be nice.


Black Cleaver, perhaps? Or Last Whisper, depending on the enemy team.

Hmm, Black Cleaver would indeed seem like the choice. Damage, attack speed and armor reduction in one neat package.

[term1nally s1ck]

Only flat Armor reduction, whereas LW will make you a sudden threat vs tanks, too.

[Legoshrimp]

Most o of the time I see trynds get 1-3 bloodthirsters, which makes sense to give you a way to survive better without your ult.

[Spartacus]

Bloodthirsters are great to give some survivability, but the old wisdom on killing him still applies. Ignite+CC make Trynd a very sad boy.

[Astrella]

Malzahar changes incoming. (Also some stuff about Alistar.)


Malzahar is indeed perceived as "not-so-great" in most tiers of play (due to difficulty of play and reliance on farm) but he is actually considered god tier in competitive play (ask any top tier player especially in EU). The reason he only sees "some" competitive play is because he is banned in 99% of those games. The only time I've seen Malzahar been able to be picked is when Reginald and Team Solo Mid manage to get him in the draft against other not-as-high tier NA teams.

We are not remaking Malzahar at all. We are really just aiming to tweak some of his high end extremes (which should only mainly affect high tier play) and make his damage output more consistent between different tiers of play. This mainly has to do with the insane potential damage Null Zone can do combined with Nether Grasp and other coordinated CCs. The amount of damage Malzahar can do is pretty absurd in a skilled and coordinated environment, I can math it out if you like but I'm sure you can come up with the numbers yourselves. It is a normal thing for Malzahar late game to kill enemy champions with Null Zone (W) + Nether Grasp (R) alone. To me that's unacceptable.

Regarding Alistar, he was never considered trash by high tier players. He has always been the ideal tank with extremely strong CC/initiation and a very low reliance on farm. He struggled though in lower tiers of play because he is a pure tank who needs good teamwork to make pay off. The goal of Guinsoo's Alistar remake was to make Alistar more viable in lower tiers of play and in general just more fun to play. Alistar was played a lot in high tier before the remake and that was one of the factors for why he got delayed for so long. We knew Alistar was already extremely strong but just underplayed. We needed to make sure we made him a stronger pick in low tier play but keep him relatively the same for high tier.

TL;DR
Alistar and Malzahar are considered top tier picks in competitive play but "trash" in other tiers due to their reliance on farm and/or teamwork. We are not remaking Malzahar but we do intend to tweak his high end numbers and make him overall more consistent in his damage output.

[ZombyWoof]

I know it's kind of a moot point, but after IE and two PDs, what should you buy on Trynd? You're already maxing out criticals. Damage maybe? Arpen? Attack speed?
Bloodthirster, Banshee's, and Quicksilver for me typically. Trynd needs to worry about bursty busrty more than anything else. Getting MR and a bit of HP negates most of that bursty bursty and pushing out some lifesteal really helps you continue your ownage of other sustained damage.

[Makensha]

I recently had a game that where the team comes looked something like this.

Enemy: Amumu, Miss Fortune, Master Yi + I forget but I remember they were solid team player characters who weren't squishy.

Us: Tryndamere, Mastery Yi, Katarina, Blitzcrank, and Renekton.

Who Do You Think Won?

I'll give you a hint: when I locked Tryndamere, I thought I was playing a Coop vs. AI match.

[ex cathedra]

Yay! My computer died as I was joining a game and it turns out the PSU is shot. Luckily, it appears it didn't take anything else with it.

Sorry to hear that. If you're interested, the opposing Kat in that 4v5 game ended up with full SotO/Mejai's/Leviathan stacks. It was rough.

Also, Malz changes? :( I just got him, and I like him how he is. Less farm reliant? Are they going to change his W and then lower the ratio on his ult (and possibly boost the base damage)? Ughhh.

[Winthur]

Us: Tryndamere, Mastery Yi, Katarina, Blitzcrank, and Renekton.


Oh! I know that guy! It's the one that even with some respectable Quickness...
:smallcool:
doesn't really rune around!

[9mm]

Oh! I know that guy! It's the one that even with some respectable Quickness...
:smallcool:
doesn't really rune around!

That guy is such a pain to catch though... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNVP7Cic68I)

[toasty]

That guy is such a pain to catch though... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNVP7Cic68I)

Stunlock ftw. :smalltongue:

[Faulty]

Often times, losing a lane doesn't mean losing the game. However, when that lane is 1/2 your damage (Veigar) and he loses to their tanky dps (Renekton) and lets that tanky dps get so much farm it's stupid. Well. That can be bad.

[Mtg_player_zach]

Often times, losing a lane doesn't mean losing the game. However, when that lane is 1/2 your damage (Veigar) and he loses to their tanky dps (Renekton) and lets that tanky dps get so much farm it's stupid. Well. That can be bad.

I keep winning mid while the other two lanes and jungle get destroyed. Wat do?

[Astrella]

I keep winning mid while the other two lanes and jungle get destroyed. Wat do?

Invest in cloning technology.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

I keep winning mid while the other two lanes and jungle get destroyed. Wat do?

In those games, it was due to really bad lane matchups, and the fact that Draken and I couldn't properly hear each other to communicate. We also had a jungler with inconsistent ganks.

Basically, we just needed better coordination across the board. And, to be perfectly honest, we were doing about as well as we possibly could in those lanes without gank support...the match-ups were just against us by huge amounts.

[Inhuman Bot]

P.S. you never considered hextech trolling as Vlad because it's not very good. SHHHHH!!! :smallwink:

I'd agree if this wasn't entirely wrong.

It was true when Transfusion had reduced spell vamp though.

[Master_Rahl22]

I keep winning mid while the other two lanes and jungle get destroyed. Wat do?

I almost trotted out the typical response to that meme, but I don't want to be banned. :smallwink:

Unfortunately it seems that you're better than the player's you are matched with. *insert standard ELO Hell advice/argument here*

[Copacetic]

So, free Galio week. How do I not embaress myself?

[ZombyWoof]

6/6/2 loss as Vlad.

Rest of the team combined to go 5/38/11?

[Dogmantra]

One game under my belt as new Cow and damn, I really do not like what they've done at all. It all started with a regular dive going wrong because I accidentally headbutted a minion and all went downhill from there. Clearly I am doing something wrong because he seems to have gone from one of the most fun champions in the game to really frustrating... which is the complete opposite of what this fix was supposed to do...

[Astrella]

One game under my belt as new Cow and damn, I really do not like what they've done at all. It all started with a regular dive going wrong because I accidentally headbutted a minion and all went downhill from there. Clearly I am doing something wrong because he seems to have gone from one of the most fun champions in the game to really frustrating... which is the complete opposite of what this fix was supposed to do...

's probably just needing to get used to him again. I wouldn't ditch him based on one game.

[Dogmantra]

's probably just needing to get used to him again. I wouldn't ditch him based on one game.

I'm not going to but increasingly I am wondering what was wrong with him.

[Math_Mage]

I keep winning mid while the other two lanes and jungle get destroyed. Wat do?

Switch with someone who can lane against the now-dominated mid. I mean, there are always limits to what you can do for teammates who can't play the game.


So, free Galio week. How do I not embaress myself?

Chalice, BVeil, situational. You loooooove it when you get to buy Abyssal Scepter and FoN, of course. Master Q-E harass/farming and get some flash-ulti skills. Be wary of counterpick Janna/Alistar/Gragas in particular--there may be others I'm not thinking of at the moment, but those three can instantly nullify your ult.

[TechnOkami]

Oh! I know that guy! It's the one that even with some respectable Quickness...
:smallcool:
doesn't really rune around!

I dare say, I think we have some...
:smallcool:
...Trundle's in the room.

[Volatar]

Stunlock ftw. :smalltongue:

Cleanse ftw. :smalltongue::smalltongue:

[Math_Mage]

Come Come Morons vs. Rock Solid (http://www.own3d.tv/live/17484/National_ESL_League_of_Legends) happening now.

Bans: Nocturne TF Blitz Shen Alistar

Never mind, they're delaying the match because CCM hasn't set up the tournament client, derp.

[9mm]

So, free Galio week. How do I not embaress myself?

As Galio: learn to land Resolute smite, Flash ult, and not just buy magic resist.
Against Galio: QSS, Cleans, Merc treads plus ligtning flash reflexes.

[Silverraptor]

I recently had a game that where the team comes looked something like this.

Enemy: Amumu, Miss Fortune, Master Yi + I forget but I remember they were solid team player characters who weren't squishy.

Us: Tryndamere, Mastery Yi, Katarina, Blitzcrank, and Renekton.

Who Do You Think Won?

I'll give you a hint: when I locked Tryndamere, I thought I was playing a Coop vs. AI match.

Oh, I'm so sorry you lost. It sounded like you had a pretty solid set up. But those bots can be tricky, though.:smalltongue:

[Volatar]

I was on a losing streak for the longest time (won one game out of like, 16 in the past 2 weeks or so) and had been trying to carry games as Ashe to break the streak.

Then, tonight, I play as Annie.

And kick so much butt it was awesome.

So apparently all I need to do to win games is play Annie. :smalltongue:

[ZombyWoof]

No one knows how to play against annie because no one knows how to play Annie. How're my tips working out for you Volatar? :smallwink:

(At least I think you were the one asking for tips...)

((This was a long time ago))

[9mm]

No one knows how to play against annie because no one knows how to play Annie. How're my tips working out for you Volatar? :smallwink:

(At least I think you were the one asking for tips...)

((This was a long time ago))

No no one can play against Annie because they haven't seen her bear Tibbers.


Seriously she just a solid champ that everyone underestimates for some reason.

[ZombyWoof]

I don't mean to sound like, super arrogant by saying it, but I really do believe that in the mid to low ELO starting at about 1500 there is NO ONE who has a clue how to play as Annie. I think they write her off as "noob trash" somewhere around level 15 when they learn how to last hit properly and assume there's no second skillcurve for her.

But then there are those few, those precious few who learn her properly. And when we get into games, we own our lanes completely. When we get into games, you will see full-hp Cho'Gath ghosting away simply because he heard that little laugh...

They learn us by our 3 kills by level 7 :smallwink:

[term1nally s1ck]

Is it still catalyst tear RoA deathcap AA?

[ZombyWoof]

For me it's Mejai's Boots Catalyst RoA Deathcap Enemy team surrenders because wtf are they going to do about this 12-1-3 Annie killing them at will :smalltongue:

(I'm only somewhat joking)

[Eldariel]

I keep winning mid while the other two lanes and jungle get destroyed. Wat do?

Push so hard enemy team tries to gank you buying your allies time to freefarm and push.

[Raistlin1040]

New Art Spotlight. (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/news/art-spotlight-vayne-night-hunter)

Cool.

[Volatar]

No one knows how to play against annie because no one knows how to play Annie. How're my tips working out for you Volatar? :smallwink:

(At least I think you were the one asking for tips...)

((This was a long time ago))

Nope, pretty sure I gave you tips :smalltongue:

I build RoA and Sorc shoes then either a Rylai's, Deathcap, or tank items depending on the game. I will also get a void staff if they start stacking MR (though they pretty much never do, to my amusement)

I love how no one focuses Annie. And when people do start focusing me, I just build tankier. :smallbiggrin:

Annie is the best tanky-dps in the game :smallwink:

[Mtg_player_zach]

Push so hard enemy team tries to gank you buying your allies time to freefarm and push.

I pushed my tower and covered bot lane once, but I guess I should have tried laneswitch for top or something.

[Misery Esquire]

New Art Spotlight. (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/news/art-spotlight-vayne-night-hunter)

Cool.

Blue is a terrible colour for that.

...It looks a bit better at the end, but it's still blue. Blue + Brown =/= Vampire Hunter look. Oh well, League cartoon-y-ness. Still cool.

[Inhuman Bot]

New Art Spotlight. (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/news/art-spotlight-vayne-night-hunter)

Cool.

Well, she looks terrible to me already!

Just give me Sand King, Riot.

[Draken]

Well, she looks terrible to me already!

Just give me Sand King, Riot.

The scorpion from DotA? Or do you mean Monkey King?

[Copacetic]

The scorpion from DotA? Or do you mean Monkey King?

Monkey king **** yeah! I'm really excited for that champion. I hope riot doesn't make him a release-Lee Sin. :smallannoyed:

[Dogmantra]

I hate Wojo and my retaliation did not bother him as much as his taliation bothered me and also we won which I did not want to happen for obvious reasons.
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll78/De_ressurect/ihatewojo.png
replay (http://www.mediafire.com/?i4ndvfgjyatljaz)

[Cheesegear]

What could possibly go wrong when you insta-lock Janna?

Gangplank and Nocturne are AFK for the first five minutes.

Lee Sin wants to jungle. And badly at that. Even though there's only three of us.

Janna - the support champ, me - has to solo mid. Against Vlad.
Fantastic.

Shen does okay.

[ZombyWoof]

Best Janna-lock reaction ever:

"NOOOOOOO WHY WOULD YOU FIRST PICK JANNA SHE SUCKS!!!!"
:smallconfused: Oh this is going to be a fun game I can tell :smallannoyed:

[Cheesegear]

"NOOOOOOO WHY WOULD YOU FIRST PICK JANNA SHE SUCKS!!!!"
:smallconfused: Oh this is going to be a fun game I can tell :smallannoyed:

Master Yi goes 15/15/3
I - Janna - go 3/2/27

Apparently I'm the terrible one. :smallconfused:

[Silverraptor]

Master Yi goes 15/15/3
I - Janna - go 3/2/27

Apparently I'm the terrible one. :smallconfused:

Well of course! Because you see, assists don't exist at lower ELO levels, so technically you only got 3 kills. Shame on you for picking such a non-killing ability champion.

[Cheesegear]

Well of course! Because you see, assists don't exist at lower ELO levels, so technically you only got 3 kills. Shame on you for picking such a non-killing ability champion.

Solo Q makes me QQ, solo.

[Eldariel]

Janna - the support champ, me - has to solo mid. Against Vlad.
Fantastic.

Psh. I've scored First and Second Blood against Kennens and Vladimirs and Morganas with Janna on solo lane before. Just go AP Janna > Proceed To Roflstomp.

[TechnOkami]

Hey, how do you guys post images onto the thread?

[toasty]

Hey, how do you guys post images onto the thread?

The [img] tag? (with a [ / img ], without spaces, at the end).

[Dogmantra]

Hey, how do you guys post images onto the thread?

Upload them somewhere like imageshack, tinypic or photobucket (which is the one I use) then copy the image URL (not the page URL at the top, it should be in a box, or you can right click the image and click "copy image location" or similar) here like this: http://imagehostingsite.com/exampleurl.png

[ZombyWoof]

Last 3 games of LoL:

1) I go 6/6, rest of my team manages 5/38. REALLY NOW?! Way to manage a 1/8 K/D dudes.

2) Trollsona goes Flash/Clairvoyance in a lane with Akali when she KNOWS she's laning with Akali, trollmalphite feeds rene.

3) WW goes 1/4 after complaining that WW shouldn't be built tanky (if you don't know how to play your champ gtfo of ranked) and vlad DCs over and over going 1/6.

My ELO keeps dropping because of this?

Oh and someone seriously picked Maokoi. Protip: if you want to win, don't pick the tree.

[tribble]

So! after some experimenting with Lady Fortune and Sivic, I've finally settled on Sona, mostly because she doesn't have any of this "aiming" nonsense the youngsters are doing.:smallwink: Now, I feel like I'm definitely not sucking, per say, with the character; I'm not dying very often at all (due to timidity or good sense I cannot say) and I certainly contribute. Here's the thing, though: I'm also getting a lot of kills.

Now, I know Sona is supposed to be support. If I'm last hitting heroes the carries could have finished, I'm hurting the team in the long run. On the other hand, if I don't cast my Q as often as I can, I may not be channeling hymn of valor when my buddies need it, and doing damage with sona is suprisingly easy all game. Is it ok for me to be getting more kills than assists as Sona?

[Alcopop]

New Art Spotlight. (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/news/art-spotlight-vayne-night-hunter)

Cool.

What's Redglare doing in my league of legends?

(instabuy, this game is looking so much better since they hired Katie)

[Dogmantra]

Now, I know Sona is supposed to be support. If I'm last hitting heroes the carries could have finished, I'm hurting the team in the long run. On the other hand, if I don't cast my Q as often as I can, I may not be channeling hymn of valor when my buddies need it, and doing damage with sona is suprisingly easy all game. Is it ok for me to be getting more kills than assists as Sona?

Some people would disagree with me, but it's completely okay to get lots of kills on anyone. A kill is a kill for the team and while it'd be good for the person who needs it most to get the extra cash from a kill, it'd be far worse for the enemy to get away than it would be for the kill to go to the support or tank.

[Astrella]

2) Trollsona goes Flash/Clairvoyance in a lane with Akali when she KNOWS she's laning with Akali, trollmalphite feeds rene.

How is going CV/flash on Sona trolling? Or do you mean clarity?


Oh and someone seriously picked Maokoi. Protip: if you want to win, don't pick the tree.

Bwaha. Clearly you've never seen a good tree. I play Maokai myself, and whilst I'm not that great at him, I always pull my weight.

He's a great laner, provides good utility to a team, has great burst and is incredibly fun to play.

[Zeful]

The [img] tag? (with a [ / img ], without spaces, at the end).

Note: The board has noparse tags, and thus you can show the tags you want without worrying about whether or not it's going to show. www.google.com

See?

Also to show how the noparse tags work simply copy and paste www.google.com into the instructional post.

[Cheesegear]

Oh and someone seriously picked Maokoi. Protip: if you want to win, don't pick the tree.

Err...Whenever a friend of mine is on, I always play Maokai. He plays Ezrael (and casts lots of spells for me), I buy Mana Manipulator. And we roflstomp. Especially when we end up laning against two more casters.

[Temotei]

Well, I just played a 22/5/8 game with Akali on Twisted Treeline. It would have been 23/5/8, but my friend, who was playing Renekton (1/10/10 at the end), barely got the last hit on the enemy Miss Fortune.

Yeah, Renekton's player is fairly new. I'm level 30. :smalltongue:

Our Xin Zhao stole a few kills from me, but that's okay. It probably helped the team more than a few more kills on me would have helped. Balance and all of that stuff Akali stands for. Blah blah blah. :smallamused:

[Math_Mage]

Last 3 games of LoL:

1) I go 6/6, rest of my team manages 5/38. REALLY NOW?! Way to manage a 1/8 K/D dudes.

2) Trollsona goes Flash/Clairvoyance in a lane with Akali when she KNOWS she's laning with Akali, trollmalphite feeds rene.

3) WW goes 1/4 after complaining that WW shouldn't be built tanky (if you don't know how to play your champ gtfo of ranked) and vlad DCs over and over going 1/6.

My ELO keeps dropping because of this?

Oh and someone seriously picked Maokoi. Protip: if you want to win, don't pick the tree.

While it's only natural to be frustrated when your teammates D/C or troll, I can't help but be reminded of this extremely worthwhile post (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=710238) I just read, and in particular a section from the Russell vs. Wilt discussion...


Ever seen this guy? "RIOT FIX YOUR BROKEN MATCHMAKING SYSTEM I WENT 17/2/3 LAST GAME BUT I COULDN'T CARRY THIS EFFING TEAM OF BADS TO A WIN." Now, look at this quote from Wilt, talking about his teammates after being eliminated from the 1968 playoffs as a heavy favorite:

"Hal hit only eight of 25 shots. Wali hit eight of 22. Matty hit two of ten, Chet hit eight of 22. Those four guys took most of our shots and hit less than a third of them. But I got the blame."

Sound familiar? Look, I know that not every game is winnable (heck, not even Russell won the title every year), but it's clear that these ragers (and Wilt) are placing a large emphasis on statistics, betraying a fundamental misunderstanding of what wins games. Stats are nice (obviously you need to kill members of the other team in order to win the game, and it certainly helps if you don't die a lot), but winning goes beyond that. As stated in the quotes up there, winning is about making your teammates better and doing whatever it takes, even if it means sacrificing your own statistics.

Also: Flash/CV Sona isn't trolling even in a lane with Akali (I would argue it's ideal), and Maokai isn't bad.

[Silverraptor]

How is going CV/flash on Sona trolling? Or do you mean clarity?



Bwaha. Clearly you've never seen a good tree. I play Maokai myself, and whilst I'm not that great at him, I always pull my weight.

He's a great laner, provides good utility to a team, has great burst and is incredibly fun to play.

I was confused as well, since I always go CV/Flash on Sona and do pretty well with that.

And I also play Tree, and always do pretty well. Except for when Djinn starts yelling at me for accidently getting my punch instead of snare 2nd level....>.>
(I know you only do it because you love me Djinn.:smalltongue:)

[ZombyWoof]

How is going CV/flash on Sona trolling? Or do you mean clarity?.
The one that gives mana. I get them mixed up all the time. I wanted her to have the one that gives sight, she took the one that gives mana :smallyuk:

Also ghost/heal malphite. You'd think by level 30 they'd realize what summoners don't work eh?

Also: BWAHAHAHAAAA Garen makes fun of my 3x Dorans -> Boots -> BF start on Ashe. Long story short, I went 14-4-16 and carried my team. he went 2-6-2. Later on he insults my ELO saying "Man you're such a 1300 player." I respond, "Oh? What's yours?" "Much higher," he says, and afterwords I find out: he's 1291 after that game :smalltongue:

Reported4attitude. I feel bad for his team.

EDIT: That post is pretty meh. It's shifting the blame from the people who cost the game. Unless you want to tell me that it's my fault that they went a combined 5/38? That I was somehow supposed to stop them? Or win anyways? I couldn't because they kept doing dumb stuff and dying for it. How am I supposed to organize a rally from people who want to dive into 5v1s?

[Dienekes]

Master Yi goes 15/15/3
I - Janna - go 3/2/27

Apparently I'm the terrible one. :smallconfused:

And this is why I always thank the folk with highest assists at the end of every match. They do a lot of work so the rest of the team looks good.

I'm also happy to announce my losing streak is officially over. After losing 14 games in a row I have won the last 4. Huzzah.

And they were great victories too, last one I went 15/1/6, and the opposing team congratulated me personally for my victory.

And I still thanked Galio for the win at the end, 3/3/17 he was pretty much the reason I did so well.

[Draken]

Oh and someone seriously picked Maokoi. Protip: if you want to win, don't pick the tree.

This statement is to me as AD Kennen is to Dogmantra. It is just wrong.

[ZombyWoof]

I'm not the only one who thinks tree is bad. Tree is bad. His ult is bad. His burst is low at high levels... and only decent at low levels. His laning presence is meh. I would rather have pretty much any other champ on my team and/or in my lane.

[Silverraptor]

EDIT: That post is pretty meh. It's shifting the blame from the people who cost the game. Unless you want to tell me that it's my fault that they went a combined 5/38? That I was somehow supposed to stop them? Or win anyways? I couldn't because they kept doing dumb stuff and dying for it. How am I supposed to organize a rally from people who want to dive into 5v1s?

We were just wondering about some general remarks that we have experienced ourselves to have several contradictions to them. However, bad players are bad players, and that general remark will largely remain valid no matter what combination.

And ya, clarity with a non-mana lanemate is pretty silly. I cringe everytime I'm forced into that situation. Though thankfully I've been figuring out how to minimize my need to carry clarity on any champion roughly close to 0.

[Math_Mage]

I'm not the only one who thinks tree is bad. Tree is bad. His ult is bad. His burst is low at high levels... and only decent at low levels. His laning presence is meh. I would rather have pretty much any other champ on my team and/or in my lane.

His skillset makes for serious lane dominance--long-range harass and a gap-closer+CC combo. It also makes him a powerful mid-game roamer. And his initiation late-game is top-notch.

Yeah, you'd probably *rather* have Blitz/Alistar. But Maokai still offers a lot to his team.

[Silverraptor]

I'm not the only one who thinks tree is bad. Tree is bad. His ult is bad. His burst is low at high levels... and only decent at low levels. His laning presence is meh. I would rather have pretty much any other champ on my team and/or in my lane.

And you have not seen any game where I was Tree. If you have a Carry like Djinn or some other people who melts faces constantly, then Tree is nice icing to your delicious cake. I would say Maokai is sort of like a slightly underpowered Alistar. I agree he needs a few buffs here and there, but he's otherwise decent. He's certainly not a trash tier champion.

I think Maokai is like today's Garen, where nobody really plays him, and seems to not know how to play him if they do.(Which I'm still trying to figure out why I'm fighting against fail Garens. I mean, *HOW* can you fail with Garen? I just...Just don't understand.:smallsigh:)

[toasty]

I'm not the only one who thinks tree is bad. Tree is bad. His ult is bad. His burst is low at high levels... and only decent at low levels. His laning presence is meh. I would rather have pretty much any other champ on my team and/or in my lane.

All I know is that efdf said that he thinks tree is good and there was some experimentation a while ago with roaming maokai at high elo. Dunno how much it worked though.

[Arbitrarity]

All I know is that efdf said that he thinks tree is good and there was some experimentation a while ago with roaming maokai at high elo. Dunno how much it worked though.

Elementz claims it worked pretty damn well. Not entirely sure why, compared with Alistair, but apparently his roaming is viable. Past that, most Trees I see are ineffective.

[Math_Mage]

Elementz claims it worked pretty damn well. Not entirely sure why, compared with Alistair, but apparently his roaming is viable. Past that, most Trees I see are ineffective.

Doesn't need to burn a summoner to initiate, can scout enemy jungle with saplings. At least, that's what I'd guess from his skillset.

EDIT: Also, Alistar is far and away the best roamer (and sometimes banned), so that's not necessarily a fair comparison. Compare instead other common roamers like Taric, Janna, Evelynn.

[toasty]

Elementz claims it worked pretty damn well. Not entirely sure why, compared with Alistair, but apparently his roaming is viable. Past that, most Trees I see are ineffective.

Yeah, but I haven't seen him much on streams lately. of course I haven't been watching streams much right now... and I don't watch nonstop.

Also: I find it funny that Jiji and HSGG never play their mains. I haven't seen Jiji play as anything but Richard Tracy (great name btw :smalltongue:) in forever.

[ZombyWoof]

Probably the 5th time I've asked, but does anyone have jungle akali tips and/or runes?

[toasty]

Kayle Remake is now in its third version of internal testing and it ended up being just a light re-work instead of many of her abilities being completely re-hauled.

The new version is testing positively and is currently scheduled for the patch after Vayne's for release.

As with all things, its possible for things to screw up and go wrong, but this one is looking pretty solid in comparison to versions 1 and 2.

Just fyi, especially for Sirro. I'm excited too.

[Astrella]

Just fyi, especially for Sirro. I'm excited too.

Hmm, not sure. It'll depend on their definition of light. Since, while I like Kayle's current form, I wouldn't have minded some more drastic changes. But we'll have to wait and see.

Bets: Weaker passive / reworked passive. (Maybe different stats?) This to make her less carry oriented. Also because it's one of the most gold-efficient passives in the game.

Q damage bonus now applies to entire team instead of Kayle alone. Again, to make her more support oriented.

Cooldown reduction / change to E to give her more uptime without having to rely on having to maximize CDR.

[Zeful]

EDIT: That post is pretty meh. It's shifting the blame from the people who cost the game. Unless you want to tell me that it's my fault that they went a combined 5/38? That I was somehow supposed to stop them? Or win anyways? I couldn't because they kept doing dumb stuff and dying for it. How am I supposed to organize a rally from people who want to dive into 5v1s?

Not really, the attitude your post provides: "there was nothing I could do, they were just too bad" is a patently false assertion, showing a systemic flaw in reasoning. That post is all about "The Secret" behind victory in team games and how it applies to League of Legends. And it pretty much boils down to the mindset of "What will make us win?" rather than "How am I doing?" As Condon (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=71443) put it:
You win by breaking the god **** nexus. Considering the victory condition, if you aren't doing your best to make that a reachable goal, you are just as much at fault for losing as the 0/14/2 Health Stacking Xin, or the Jungle TF that never helps in teamfights, it doesn't matter what your score is, moreover it doesn't matter what their score is either.

The post goes further in explaining how to do this. In your example, by the time they were 1v5ing you had already blown your shot. But consider this, start every game with a glhf to just your team, and the suggest laning compositions based on the synergies between champions on what will get early kills. Give blame neutral advice on how to improve something. Ask if people need help anywhere. Start a dialog around, effectively "I think we can win if we do this..." and keep it up through out the entire game. If someone starts raging out one of your teammates, go to bat for him, and explain what he's doing right. If you make a mistake that causes a death of your teammate apologize to them specifically for your bad judgement. In short come across as everybody's friend. Once they start trusting you, you can lever advantages out of them that they might not even know are there.

But if you can't be bothered to make the effort and help them be better players, you don't really have any right to complain about them failing, because you could have helped, but didn't.

[Math_Mage]

Probably the 5th time I've asked, but does anyone have jungle akali tips and/or runes?

Djinn does. Ask him when you catch him in-game or on Mumble--or just PM him. There's also half a dozen Akali jungles on Stonewall's site to draw from. And while Mobafire/Leaguecraft/forums aren't to be trusted to give optimal Akali jungles, you can at least trust that you'll live through them because even the worst player wouldn't make a guide with a path that Humiliates. Beyond that, you'll have to experiment, because none of the other GitPers are even regular Akali players to my knowledge, let alone regular jungle Akali players.

FWIW, DBlade seems to be the starting item of choice for health and the spellvamp passive.

[Raistlin1040]

I hate Rumble. I think he looks stupid, he sounds stupid, the obnoxious WARNING WARNING every five seconds is bash head against wall levels of terrible. He's too good at everything and I don't like it. I was laning as Vlad against a Rumble mid. I had Boots and 3 health pots. We each started with about the same health, but I had 2 more pots than he did, as well as 61 extra movespeed. He proceeded to dominate me with the ridiculously low cooldown flamethrower, forcing me to back twice and killing me once.

This is a game about counters. There are counters to everything. Vlad is a great mid, but someone like Sivir can counter him early game with her spellshield, and then whack him. Ashe can kill him. Akali can kill him, etc. But there are counters for those characters as well. Tryndamere is my favorite AD carry and really good at what he does...But ignite or CC can still shut him down really hard. There's also a balance in scaling. Characters that dominate early game will fall apart late game unless they get super fed early. Characters that destroy late game need to survive long enough to get fed for the late game.

Rumble is a tanky AP/AD mage with low cooldowns, no mana or energy to regulate him, and the silencing effect of his passive doesn't affect him early game and isn't a big deal late game. He dishes out good magic damage and good attack damage, he's tanky, he has useful utility with his ult. He's too good at everything. Kayle is a similar character, in the sense of being a jack of all trades, but she's also fairly middling. She's a hybrid tanky type character who never shines but is decent. Janna can do ANYTHING, but she really prefers to specialize, going AP, AD, Tank, Support, whatever. Rumble, just by going into a generic tanky AP build, has great bulk, great damage, and huge teamfight utility, all on low cooldowns.

I hate that little hobo gerbil.

[Cheesegear]

Janna can do ANYTHING, but she really prefers to specialize, going AP, AD, Tank, Support

Tank Janna? ...That's a thing now? When did that happen?

That's the kind of thing I do when I hate my team and start imitating a Trundle.

[Astrella]

*snip*

Think you're being a bit unfair here. Firstly, Rumble is generally considered to be at least a bit underpowered.

Furthermore, he's a pretty great laner, while Vlad is not that good of a laner until he hits 7. And Rumble gets shutdown pretty hard by lanes with decent amounts of ranged harass.

[Moonshadow]

And ya, clarity with a non-mana lanemate is pretty silly. I cringe everytime I'm forced into that situation. Though thankfully I've been figuring out how to minimize my need to carry clarity on any champion roughly close to 0.

I don't think it's silly. Some champs are mana intensive. Just because *YOU* don't need Clarity, doesn't mean that they don't :smallannoyed:

[ZombyWoof]

You know what Zeful? You don't know what you're talking about (with regards to how I play). I go into every game and I approach it like a job. I take responsibility for myself when I step up to champ select. I say what I intend to do and what my contribution towards the end goal is going to be.

And anyone out there who claims it's possible to "rally" a team that's gone 5/38 is out of their mind. They have died so often because they are outclassed. Our opponents are much better than we are. Now they have more items as well. This is the point where the game is over and you press surrender.

Killing the nexus is the end goal, yes, but how do you kill the nexus? Either split push, which means you need to have split pushers on your team, or teamfight and teampush. If you can't win teamfights, you can't teampush, and if you don't have the right comp you can't split push. So yeah, you do need kills to win in LoL.

I do my job. Game in and game out. And I am the first to point out when I'm screwing up... and usually last to point out when anyone else is screwing up. It's rare for me to say a word in the first ten minutes of a game after the minions have spawned... and the only things I say before those are lighthearted jokes.

And these people who keep failing? Yeah. They are making the game unfun. And then they don't even own up to it, preferring instead to sit there silent. I bet you Wilt wouldn't have been upset if his teammates stood up for him and said, "Don't blame it on Wilt. We went 2/22 from the field. It's our fault we lost. He put his heart out there, and played his butt off, and we failed him."

[Astrella]

*snip*

That's all good and dandy, but I can't help but shake of the feeling that you completely missed / didn't properly read the point Zeful / the article was trying to make.


It's rare for me to say a word in the first ten minutes of a game after the minions have spawned... and the only things I say before those are lighthearted jokes.

This alone should prove my point. It's a team game, you can't play those without communication.

[Math_Mage]

I hate Rumble. I think he looks stupid, he sounds stupid, the obnoxious WARNING WARNING every five seconds is bash head against wall levels of terrible. He's too good at everything and I don't like it. I was laning as Vlad against a Rumble mid. I had Boots and 3 health pots. We each started with about the same health, but I had 2 more pots than he did, as well as 61 extra movespeed. He proceeded to dominate me with the ridiculously low cooldown flamethrower, forcing me to back twice and killing me once.

This is a game about counters. There are counters to everything. Vlad is a great mid, but someone like Sivir can counter him early game with her spellshield, and then whack him. Ashe can kill him. Akali can kill him, etc. But there are counters for those characters as well. Tryndamere is my favorite AD carry and really good at what he does...But ignite or CC can still shut him down really hard. There's also a balance in scaling. Characters that dominate early game will fall apart late game unless they get super fed early. Characters that destroy late game need to survive long enough to get fed for the late game.

Rumble is a tanky AP/AD mage with low cooldowns, no mana or energy to regulate him, and the silencing effect of his passive doesn't affect him early game and isn't a big deal late game. He dishes out good magic damage and good attack damage, he's tanky, he has useful utility with his ult. He's too good at everything. Kayle is a similar character, in the sense of being a jack of all trades, but she's also fairly middling. She's a hybrid tanky type character who never shines but is decent. Janna can do ANYTHING, but she really prefers to specialize, going AP, AD, Tank, Support, whatever. Rumble, just by going into a generic tanky AP build, has great bulk, great damage, and huge teamfight utility, all on low cooldowns.

I hate that little hobo gerbil.

You know, I just wrote a bloody long post (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=8575270#post8575270) about the dangers of 'do-everything' champions (among other things), and I completely agree with your general point. However, as Sirro points out, Vlad vs. Rumble is a lane matchup that Rumble honestly should dominate. Vlad isn't a great laner--in fact, I would say he's a weak laner, albeit with a dominant mid-game.

I feel like the ability power scaling on Rumble's Q should be dialed back a little bit; 1.5 in a moving PBAOE seems a bit much. Other than that, he's probably fine, though I haven't encountered him enough to be well-informed.

-----------------

Zomby, I'm going to speak very very calmly and carefully, because I don't want to escalate this at all. I'm sorry my initial response was provocatively worded. I do agree with you that there are limits beyond which no mindset is going to help; I said as much in that thread (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=710238&page=3) (scroll down about 2/3). That said, your last response illuminates a couple of important things that I want to point out.


You know what Zeful? You don't know what you're talking about (with regards to how I play). I go into every game and I approach it like a job. I take responsibility for myself when I step up to champ select. I say what I intend to do and what my contribution towards the end goal is going to be.

The difference between Wilt and Russell, as described in the other thread, is the difference between "taking responsibility for myself," and "taking responsibility for the team." It's the difference between "maximizing my contribution towards the end goal," and "maximizing my team's chances of reaching the end goal." That's the paradigm shift.

As said, just because you shift your paradigm does not mean you will overcome all obstacles, including your own teammates. But the latter paradigm is more successful at achieving victories.


And anyone out there who claims it's possible to "rally" a team that's gone 5/38 is out of their mind. They have died so often because they are outclassed. Our opponents are much better than we are. Now they have more items as well. This is the point where the game is over and you press surrender.

This is correct. The point where you could have influenced the outcome is long past. But that does not mean it never existed. I will clarify below.


I do my job. Game in and game out. And I am the first to point out when I'm screwing up... and usually last to point out when anyone else is screwing up. It's rare for me to say a word in the first ten minutes of a game after the minions have spawned... and the only things I say before those are lighthearted jokes.

This is it, right here. Commit to making 10 productive comments between champion select and the first 10 minutes of the game, every single game, and your Elo will rise by at least 200 points. Discussing bans, who you're picking, who your teammates should pick, what your team comp's basic strategy is, what lanes are appropriate, who needs farm, what the threats are, when/where wards are needed, gank coordination, who needs to pill, what lanes need covering, when to do the first dragon, how to respond to their bot-lane gank--this communication is absolutely crucial to creating team cohesion. Obviously late-game communication is important too, but this is your chance to set the tone.

And again, this does not mean you can magically turn the worst teammates into good ones. Leavers will not come back no matter how you exhort your other teammates, for example. But success is in the margins, and communication pushes the margins your way.

[Faulty]

Tank Janna? ...That's a thing now? When did that happen?

Well because Janna doesn't really need items to be effective, she's more or less free to build whatever the hell she wants, at least in normal queue. So you can build her beefy with tank items.

[Dogmantra]

or the Jungle TF that never helps in teamfights
that's racist against Jungle TFs stop giving us a bad name :smallfrown:



Rumble is a tanky AP/AD mage with low cooldowns, no mana or energy to regulate him, and the silencing effect of his passive doesn't affect him early game and isn't a big deal late game.
Have you actually played him yet? The silence is either a frigging GODSEND when you hear the wondrous voice saying "WARNING WARNING WARNING" as if it were saying "here, have all my money and I'm also incredibly attracted to you please proceed to make out with me" provided you need it. Otherwise it is the most annoying thing to be looking at your heat and see 85, accidentally read it as 75 then all of a sudden WARNING WARNING WARNING and the enemy champion gets away because you hit your shield for a little extra speed due to the fact you thought you could get away with that and the harpoon before overheating.


He dishes out good magic damage and good attack damage, he's tanky, he has useful utility with his ult. He's too good at everything. Kayle is a similar character, in the sense of being a jack of all trades, but she's also fairly middling. She's a hybrid tanky type character who never shines but is decent. Janna can do ANYTHING, but she really prefers to specialize, going AP, AD, Tank, Support, whatever. Rumble, just by going into a generic tanky AP build, has great bulk, great damage, and huge teamfight utility, all on low cooldowns.
Rumble does pretty much zero physical damage. The bonus damage on attacks when overheated, while huge, is magic damage. Building a Banshee's Veil or a Force of Nature will go a really long way to stopping him from being effective. His cooldowns (except on the ult) are not supposed to be his resource system. In the same way I mentioned a while back that I think Electrical Surge procced autoattacks are Kennen's main resource system, Heat is definitely Rumble's. It's actually very prohibitive. You can only do five ability casts before overheating unless you just wait and do nothing for a while. And finally, yes he can build tanky but then you can just ignore him. His base damage really hurts early game, but if you build a little bit of MR, maybe a Hexdrinker or something, he becomes ignorable unless he builds tons of AP. And then if he builds tons of AP he's very squishy and should die instantly by virtue of being a squishy melee range character.

Try being Ashe or Ezreal against Rumble. It's hilarious and you'll see why he's not as great as you think.

[Silverraptor]

I don't think it's silly. Some champs are mana intensive. Just because *YOU* don't need Clarity, doesn't mean that they don't :smallannoyed:

I'm not saying that there aren't mana extensive champions, because there are. Heavens knows, I had to take clarity all the time with the mana extensive champions I've taken. Its just that I found alternatives to taking Clarity and still performing at the same level, if not better, than the level I was playing at Clarity.

Clarity I would call is sort of a training wheels for someone trying to master mana-extensive champions who does not have or invested into the right runes yet. When I was running clarity because I had no MP/5 runes, yeah, it helped me alot. However, the cooldown is long enough that most often I find myself out of mana shortly after clarity was used, forcing me to back. Sure, it allowed me to stay in the lane 40 seconds-80 seconds longer, but if you don't have the "running out of mana really fast" problem solved, there is only so much that clarity can do. And by the time you do solve how to restore mana as fast as you are spending it, then Clarity becomes sort of useless the rest of the game since you won't need to use it again.

Do you understand what I'm saying?

[toasty]

Clarity is great for low level summoners who don't have access to full masteries and MP/5 per level mana runes. Once you have those and a little bit of common sense as to when to cast your spells, you'll do fine.

[Dogmantra]

Clarity is great for low level summoners who don't have access to full masteries and MP/5 per level mana runes. Once you have those and a little bit of common sense as to when to cast your spells, you'll do fine.

And on Mordekaiser. It's great on Mordekaiser.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Probably the 5th time I've asked, but does anyone have jungle akali tips and/or runes?

Yes. Check the first post for my guide, conveniently located under the "Guides" section.

[Darth Mario]

\Commit to making 10 productive comments between champion select and the first 10 minutes of the game, every single game, and your Elo will rise by at least 200 points. Discussing bans, who you're picking, who your teammates should pick, what your team comp's basic strategy is, what lanes are appropriate, who needs farm, what the threats are, when/where wards are needed, gank coordination, who needs to pill, what lanes need covering, when to do the first dragon, how to respond to their bot-lane gank--this communication is absolutely crucial to creating team cohesion. Obviously late-game communication is important too, but this is your chance to set the tone.

This, this, a thousand times this. Anyone who has played with me on a regular basis can tell you that I'm a fairly piss-poor technical player. My mana and health management are absolutely awful and whenever I'm playing something other than a Tank or Support I tend towards silly dives that I should just not survive. However, I manage, nearly every game, to aid my team in victory, no matter what my personal score is. This is because I CONSTANTLY communicate with my entire team about how their lanes are going, if they're feeling too much pressure, if they have an easy lane and are available for ganks, whatever.

If my team has a Vladimir top in a 1v2 and he simply cannot hold it alone, I, as Jungle Amumu, will soft-gank for him at level 2 just to take some pressure off. In this situation, the goal is not to come out on top in kills; in all likelihood I will die, but hopefully we will also manage to snipe one of his opponents. Vlad in a 1v1 lane is MUCH safer in the early levels than Vlad in a 1v2 lane, and the cost—Amumu being underlevelled—is minimal, even though I now have a negative score. Once I hit level six I'm still a godly ult on a stick and I'm still the second best initiation in the game, and our Vladimir is level 8 or 9, comfortably farmed with a kill or two, and can likely carry us through the rest of the game. If I didn't sacrifice my own personal performance, numbers-wise, in this situation, Vlad likely would have gotten crushed top and fed two or three kills and a tower before reaching a midgame point—and not due to any fault of his own.

Edit: Yes, Djinn, I totally stole that story from one of our recent-ish games. Thought it was damn relevant.

[toasty]

And on Mordekaiser. It's great on Mordekaiser.

Only if Dog plays Mordekaiser. Because Dog has a hax that actually gives his bonus morde shield based on how much mana morde has. :smalltongue:

[Draken]

And on Mordekaiser. It's great on Mordekaiser.

I once met a mordekaiser who was running improved clarity "for team support".

Luckly, someone else dodged the game.

[Faulty]

Only if Dog plays Mordekaiser. Because Dog has a hax that actually gives his bonus morde shield based on how much mana morde has. :smalltongue:

It's why I always build Archangel's on Morde. His mana pool sucks. I always see people running around with no mana. Scrub Morde players. :smallsigh:

[Joran]

Clarity I would call is sort of a training wheels for someone trying to master mana-extensive champions who does not have or invested into the right runes yet. When I was running clarity because I had no MP/5 runes, yeah, it helped me alot. However, the cooldown is long enough that most often I find myself out of mana shortly after clarity was used, forcing me to back. Sure, it allowed me to stay in the lane 40 seconds-80 seconds longer, but if you don't have the "running out of mana really fast" problem solved, there is only so much that clarity can do. And by the time you do solve how to restore mana as fast as you are spending it, then Clarity becomes sort of useless the rest of the game since you won't need to use it again.



The greatest improvement in my friend's play was when I pointed out that he needed mp/5/level runes and to drop Clarity in favor of Clairvoyance. Huge improvement! Better map awareness, smarter spell casting.

Whenever I have mana issues despite the runes (hi Heimer! hi Sion!), I tend to grab teleport.

[toasty]

The greatest improvement in my friend's play was when I pointed out that he needed mp/5/level runes and to drop Clarity in favor of Clairvoyance. Huge improvement! Better map awareness, smarter spell casting.

Whenever I have mana issues despite the runes (hi Heimer! hi Sion!), I tend to grab teleport.

Sion only has mana issues for like the first 15 minutes of the game and these mana issues are dealt with by not spamming your spells.

Heimer... I haven't played him in forever. Basically since they nerfed him *cough*tryhard*cough* I loved those days, when your 'nade+rocket combo did a TON of damage, and this was before deathcap. SOOOO MUCH FUN.

[Joran]

Heimer... I haven't played him in forever. Basically since they nerfed him *cough*tryhard*cough* I loved those days, when your 'nade+rocket combo did a TON of damage, and this was before deathcap. SOOOO MUCH FUN.

He's still ridiculously fun, in a "WHEEE, run with my hands in the air like I don't care" kind of way.

Unfortunately, with the release of Rumble, I feel sad. Heimerdinger is supposed to be the best inventor in all of Runeterra and he goes onto the field with... turrets and an unending supply of wrenches. Where's HIS GIANT MECHA OF DEATH?

[Eldariel]

He's still ridiculously fun, in a "WHEEE, run with my hands in the air like I don't care" kind of way.

Unfortunately, with the release of Rumble, I feel sad. Heimerdinger is supposed to be the best inventor in all of Runeterra and he goes onto the field with... turrets and an unending supply of wrenches. Where's HIS GIANT MECHA OF DEATH?

Piltover Customs Blitzcrank. Duh.

[Joran]

Piltover Customs Blitzcrank. Duh.

I hate that skin so much. Probably because it's hard to tell how fast he's going when he HAS NO LEGS.

[Eldariel]

It's a friggin' Hotrod Robot! That's like 10 different kinds of awesome!

[Joran]

It's a friggin' Hotrod Robot! That's like 10 different kinds of awesome!

Bah, my friend who mained Blitzcrank plays with the BOOM BOOM Blitzcrank skin. How he grabs people with boxing gloves, I have no idea.

[ZombyWoof]

Thanks for the guide Djinn... :'( I need runes now.

[Zeful]

You know what Zeful? You don't know what you're talking about (with regards to how I play). I go into every game and I approach it like a job. I take responsibility for myself when I step up to champ select. I say what I intend to do and what my contribution towards the end goal is going to be.Do you, at the start, empathize with your team? Do you make yourself the knowledgable, friendly and helpful guy? If you don't, at least try it in a normal game. That's all that guy (and myself) are pointing out. I may not know how you go about your play (as I can't recall ever playing with you), but I know what's worked for me, and short of you being an eldritch abomination that lacks emotions, it should work for you too.


And anyone out there who claims it's possible to "rally" a team that's gone 5/38 is out of their mind. They have died so often because they are outclassed. Our opponents are much better than we are. Now they have more items as well. This is the point where the game is over and you press surrender.True, you can't win once the team has gone 5/38 (or rather you can, but it requires the enemy team getting hilariously cocky and your team making no further mistakes). You can however, prevent better opponents from leveraging their advantages on your team. I've done it. In a game that based on skill we should have lost, I pulled a level 28 and 15 into better players against 3 30's by taking the time to explain exactly how we needed to win and turned a game that should have been a 25 minute 4/8 into an 40 minute 8/8 game that didn't have a kill for the last 10 minutes. I guided my team into victory simply by being a leader.


Killing the nexus is the end goal, yes, but how do you kill the nexus? Either split push, which means you need to have split pushers on your team, or teamfight and teampush. If you can't win teamfights, you can't teampush, and if you don't have the right comp you can't split push. So yeah, you do need kills to win in LoL.Not really. Push up the lane, leave the lane to push up another, lather rinse repeat. It's less reliable, and much slower, but it's safe.


It's rare for me to say a word in the first ten minutes of a game after the minions have spawned... and the only things I say before those are lighthearted jokes.I think that's the problem, if you're not going to communicate with your team, why shouldn't they think poorly of you? Or when things go bad, why should they listen to you? If you aren't communicating with them, you really aren't doing everything you could to win the game. Even if you are, you can still lose.

[Volatar]

So I have been buying runes and buying cheap champions to flesh out my choices, and feel I am starting to get in a good position where I feel like I can always be an asset to my team.

Champs I own, bolded the ones I feel good in my ability to play, italicized are the ones I can jungle with.

Tank: Amumu, Galio, Singed
Physical Carry: Ashe, Sivir, Tristana
Mage: Annie, Lux, Ryze
Tanky-DPS: Mundo, Garen, Nasus, Nunu, Xin
Support: Janna, Soraka, Zilean

Considering whether I should spend my IP on CDR runes for my caster and carry pages, a jungle runebook, or whether I should start saving for Ezreal (who I played during free week and meshed with, and found him very fun).

[ZombyWoof]

Why should they listen to me if I make myself out to be a know-it-all before the game? :smallconfused:

[Dienekes]

Why should they listen to me if I make myself out to be a know-it-all before the game? :smallconfused:

With tact my dear sir or ma'am.

Ask, suggest, explain your reasoning. Sure you might get ignored or you'll have that bugger on your team whose only response to "anyone have a lane preference?" is "ur mom lol" but overall just be friendly make your opinions known without steamrolling anyone else.

If you get ganked, instead of shouting "Where was the MIA? WTF?!" a simple "crap got ganked, can you guys say if you have an mia?"

[Silverraptor]

Why should they listen to me if I make myself out to be a know-it-all before the game? :smallconfused:

Because... This isn't school were you hate the know it all. I've had solo que where someone on my team was obviously much better than me, showed that he was much better and more knowledgable, and because of this I listened to him every step of the way as well as the rest of the team. This turned a highly stacked one sided way against our team, into a somewhat even mid teamfight, to a final, eventual win at the 1 hour 14 minute mark.

Yes, true. There are those trolls who just don't listen to what people say, and demand that you shut up at the beginning. But those are the types of people who probably have a 1:5 win/loss ratio and aren't for playing the game that much longer.

[Zeful]

Why should they listen to me if I make myself out to be a know-it-all before the game? :smallconfused:

When did I ever suggest that? There is a difference between being knowledgable and being a know-it-all. The latter requires some level of condensation of everyone else. What I suggested was effectively, having an opinion, and be able to back up that opinion with some level of intelligent dialog.

Consider being on a team of Blitzcrank, Ryze, Renekton, Akali and Nocturn, what's the best lane composition for each lane, and why? What if Nocturn is jungling does it change any?

[Astrella]

When did I ever suggest that? There is a difference between being knowledgable and being a know-it-all. The latter requires some level of condensation of everyone else. What I suggested was effectively, having an opinion, and be able to back up that opinion with some level of intelligent dialog.

Consider being on a team of Blitzcrank, Ryze, Renekton, Akali and Nocturn, what's the best lane composition for each lane, and why? What if Nocturn is jungling does it change any?

Akali mid, Renek top, Nocturn jungle, Ryze / Blitz bot? That's how I would do it.

[Eldariel]

Akali mid, Renek top, Nocturn jungle, Ryze / Blitz bot? That's how I would do it.

That depends on your opponents, tbh. If mid is someone like Anivia, you put Ryze mid, Akali bot. If the mid is someone Akali can lane against, it's either Aka mid or Ryze mid. And Renek can bot with Ryze top in case there's someone like Vlad in top.

But the most generally usable lane setup would indeed be Renek top, Aka-or-Ryze mid, Blitz+Aka-or-Ryze bot, Noc jungle.

[ZombyWoof]

I like how the assumption is that these conversations don't happen. It's silly really.

Yes, in queue I talk about what the team should look like. I don't talk for the first 10 minutes after minions spawn because there is rarely any communication that needs to be done beyond "MIA [champion]." And I usually have my lane in such a state that they can't leave to gank (I take laning very seriously folks). I suppose I could jabber about builds, but I don't have time to watch other people's lanes and tell them what they're doing wrong.

I try to help. I told the Vlad that he should probably not be harassing or farming with W because it costs a lot of life and doesn't deal much damage. "I was trying to slow him!" he said. "Why?" I asked. No response. I asked the Malphite why he took heal. No response.

In any case, I'm not a teacher. I'm not playing League of Legends so I can instruct others on how to play, and frankly, I shouldn't have to. If you've hit level 30 and you haven't figured out that Heal is *just* a bad summoner, or if you've played enough Vlad to decide to buy a skin and haven't figured out that trollpool is NOT an effective harassment move, then what on earth can I say to fix that?

At the level I'm at, you have to play 200 games or so to GET to level 30. It's like trying to teach an old dog new tricks.

Now when I have a laning partner I try to encourage better play (since I can see what's going on) but for the most part... I don't know. It's like pulling teeth. "Stop autoattacking you're pushing the lane." "Stop autoattacking you're pushing the lane." "See how you died there because we got ganked from behind? Stop autoattacking you're pushing the lane."

But I'm not a blooming teacher. If you play League of Legends to feel like a coach that's fine. I don't. I play to win. And winning doesn't include "coaching your teammates" it includes "getting your job done." Jeff Saturday doesn't say to Peyton Manning, "You realize Reggie Wayne was open that play, right?" Because they have very different jobs. Sure at the beginning of the play Peyton might point out the blitz he sees to Saturday, but once you're in? Peyton doesn't know anything about blocking or what's going on in terms of mechanics on the line. Saturday doesn't know anything about the routes or the read progression Peyton has. They each do their jobs and trust the others to do theirs.




Consider being on a team of Blitzcrank, Ryze, Renekton, Akali and Nocturn, what's the best lane composition for each lane, and why? What if Nocturn is jungling does it change any?

Blitz/Ryze bot for the CC and free farm, Rene top, Akali mid, Nocturn in the jungle. Yeah, I suggest lanes at the beginning. You know, before minions spawn, like I said? :smallconfused: But I suppose I could go to lane and THEN after the minions start fighting say, "Hey guys, these are the lanes we should have!"

[Astrella]

*snip*

It's called communication, not coaching.

And honestly, if you don't want to deal with random pubbies, 5-queue. It's that simple.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Edit: Yes, Djinn, I totally stole that story from one of our recent-ish games. Thought it was damn relevant.

That's 'cause is is damn relevant. And, if I recall that game correctly, I ended with several legendaries and a 20 stack Mejai's, and that may have been the Vlad v 5 Triple Kill + Escape I had a while ago. Your theory remains sound, Mario. :smallbiggrin:

[Darth Mario]

But I'm not a blooming teacher. If you play League of Legends to feel like a coach that's fine. I don't. I play to win. And winning doesn't include "coaching your teammates" it includes "getting your job done." Jeff Saturday doesn't say to Peyton Manning, "You realize Reggie Wayne was open that play, right?" Because they have very different jobs. Sure at the beginning of the play Peyton might point out the blitz he sees to Saturday, but once you're in? Peyton doesn't know anything about blocking or what's going on in terms of mechanics on the line. Saturday doesn't know anything about the routes or the read progression Peyton has. They each do their jobs and trust the others to do theirs.

Guess who acts like a coach in that he leads his offense—knows what they're all doing, calls audibles on the spot, calls all his own plays? Tom Brady. You can see the difference between the two styles from their championship titles alone. Manning is the Numbers player in this case, and Brady the Wins player.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

But I'm not a blooming teacher. If you play League of Legends to feel like a coach that's fine. I don't. I play to win. And winning doesn't include "coaching your teammates" it includes "getting your job done." Jeff Saturday doesn't say to Peyton Manning, "You realize Reggie Wayne was open that play, right?" Because they have very different jobs. Sure at the beginning of the play Peyton might point out the blitz he sees to Saturday, but once you're in? Peyton doesn't know anything about blocking or what's going on in terms of mechanics on the line. Saturday doesn't know anything about the routes or the read progression Peyton has. They each do their jobs and trust the others to do theirs.

Wait...really? I always tell my teammates how they can improve their job when working with me. I can't even count the number of times I've reversed a game and won because I took charge of the team and started calling gank timings, push timings and locations, target priorities (even with "next target" updates in the middle of combat), and generally either coaching my weaker teammates or letting my equal-to-better teammates know exactly what I'm intended at any point in time.

I honestly think that, if you're playing to win, you must also inform, coach, teach, and communicate as much as possible. That way, the NEXT Ashe arrow will save your life, the next Rammus gank is a double-kill for the carry, and the next split push gets two towers for free. Hell, I've turned a complete stomp with us down 12 kills into ace-ing them for none in the very next teamfight. Being good wins games, but being a team player wins more games. Take Manticoran and myself...Mant is far and away the more skilled player, but most people I know would rather have me on a team than him because I'm a better team player, and I let people know how and WHY they need to improve on something. Which usually leads to them doing it right the next time 'round.

[ZombyWoof]

It's called communication, not coaching.

He's not saying I communicate, he's saying I coach. That I teach them what they're doing wrong.

I communicate plenty: when I need to give information, I give information. Before the game I try to gear up a team comp.

I do not coach: when people die I don't tell them to do better and I don't try to find out why they died because they won't tell me and I didn't watch. And if your suggestion is "watch your teammates" then you are wrong. That's a recipe for ME dying.


Guess who acts like a coach in that he leads his offense—knows what they're all doing, calls audibles on the spot, calls all his own plays? Tom Brady. You can see the difference between the two styles from their championship titles alone. Manning is the Numbers player in this case, and Brady the Wins player.
You really have no clue how that team works do you :smallconfused: Do you even know who Belichick is?

Or as a better example: The SF 49ers from the 1980s. Do you think Montana coached that team? Tip: he didn't.

EDIT: Coordination only works if you have players worth coordinating or who listen. Which I don't have.

[Astrella]

You can say what you want though, it is still effective. I like playing with Mario if only for the sole reason him taking command makes a team better by great strides.

[Dogmantra]

I honestly think that, if you're playing to win, you must also inform, coach, teach, and communicate as much as possible.

This is why if you want to win tons of solo queue games you do not play the carry. You play the frigging initiation. If you go in as Kennen with your Lightning Rush > Ult > Hourglass or go in as Amumu with your ult, or Malphite, or Ashe, or Shen, your allies WILL follow and you WILL win the teamfight provided you picked the right time to initiate. 70% of games I lose are because we don't have good enough initiation. Half the time it's because we have someone playing the initation who are just too scared to call the shots. You're the boss and that insta lock Kog'Maw is just your hired muscle.

[ZombyWoof]

Oh look another perfect example! whole team says nothing during bans and then someone complains that we're going to lose because the other team will first pick rammus.

Yeah this is going to be fun (and heeee instalocks veigar after we get a kassadin).

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

You really have no clue how that team works do you :smallconfused: Do you even know who Belichick is?

Or as a better example: The SF 49ers from the 1980s. Do you think Montana coached that team? Tip: he didn't.

Football metaphors aside, it doesn't really matter.

In League, we don't have permanent jobs. I don't sign a $7 million contract to play a Tank in solo queue for four years. I, for example, play every character.

So in a teamfight? I can tell that Blitz where he could have used his grab more efficiently, I can remember what Vlad's Ult does and call for it when I see a perfect opportunity, and I can tell that Amumu/Twitch combo to wait for Vlad's ult before moving in. We have different jobs in that particular game, but that doesn't mean I don't know how to play the other characters, and how they interact with my character.

In order to make a good team, you need some semblance of a team leader. I tend to take on this role in most games, but, in general, it's either the initiator or the carry who should be calling the shots, unless someone else is obviously better at it. The point, however, is that someone needs to be calling the shots, willing to coach, and willing to improve the others on his team, or the game is immediately decided by which team is better...here's a hint: the better players don't always win. The team that makes the better team is the one most likely to win. And a team requires someone willing to work to make the team better...call it a captain or a coach, someone has to do the job.

[Arbitrarity]

Alternatively, I continue to steal Djinn's kills. Because I'm damn good at that.


Also, Ren top, Ryze mid, Akali/Blitz bot.
Akali has a MUCH easier time getting fed with Blitz, and that's what she needs to be relevant. Ryze just needs to farm, as does Ren.
Honestly, most of the time, Akali mid is a poor choice, since she lacks the distance she wants to be able to chase targets down through their escapes. She's viable, but its harder for her to get kills.

[ZombyWoof]

Wait wait wait, I'm confused. If I initiate people will follow? :smallconfused: Where is this bizzaro world in which you live? :smallconfused:

And that's different than coaching so you're still missing the point. It *is* the fault of the people who went 5/38 for us losing, not MY fault for somehow not making them better. Because I can't make them better, especially when they ignore me.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Wait wait wait, I'm confused. If I initiate people will follow? :smallconfused: Where is this bizzaro world in which you live? :smallconfused:

The world where, if I take charge of a team of pubbies, they listen. I have about 10% of teams that don't listen...the rest tend to.


And that's different than coaching so you're still missing the point. It *is* the fault of the people who went 5/38 for us losing, not MY fault for somehow not making them better. Because I can't make them better, especially when they ignore me.

Well, yes. But, in my experience, it's pretty easy to pull a team together and turn things around. Sometimes it's NOT possible, but I've found it usually is.

[Darth Mario]

You really have no clue how that team works do you :smallconfused: Do you even know who Belichick is?

I do in fact. Belichick also mostly has his experience in defensive play, and leaves many of the on-field decisions and play-calling to Brady. At least for most of the past decade (I haven't paid much attention for the past two years in particular) the offense almost exclusively plays no huddle, with Brady selecting plays himself (he wears an armband with them all written down) on the fly. I do in fact know somewhat what I'm talking about in this case.

Coaching may be the wrong word. But what he does do is lead the team. He makes decisions, on the field, that affect what all of his teammates do. And if one of his receivers cannot break free of their coverage, they WILL relay that information to him so that he can take it into account in his decisions. The whole team communicates in order to have the best outcome for the team. Yes, in the play ITSELF they all do their jobs, but that's because it's Football—you have distinct DECISION and ACTION times due to the way plays work. In LoL, just like in the Basketball metaphor earlier, there is pretty much CONSTANT action, such that all the decisions need to be made in short bursts of communication, just like in LoL. In these cases, ALL the teammates need to be communicating through their actions and short calls all the time—and you can bet that in between points the good teams will plan as quickly as they can.

[Astrella]

The world where, if I take charge of a team of pubbies, they listen. I have about 10% of teams that don't listen...the rest tend to.

Not everyone has your raw charisma though, Djinn. :smallwink:

[Darth Mario]

Not everyone has your raw charisma though, Djinn. :smallwink:

Alternately, I can vouch that raw audacity can replace charisma in a pinch.


Oh look another perfect example! whole team says nothing during bans and then someone complains that we're going to lose because the other team will first pick rammus.

Yeah this is going to be fun (and heeee instalocks veigar after we get a kassadin).

Did you ask about bans yourself any time during? Were you the captain? If you were, you could have asked your team who they were planning to play and who they would prefer for bans. If not, you could have requested bans of your captain, and informed him of your preferences.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Alternately, I can vouch that raw audacity can replace charisma in a pinch.

Luckily for me, I have both. :smallbiggrin:

[Zeful]

And that's different than coaching so you're still missing the point. It *is* the fault of the people who went 5/38 for us losing, not MY fault for somehow not making them better. Because I can't make them better, especially when they ignore me.

Not always. I have a game as Akali where I went 1/10/2. Only 2 of those deaths were actually my fault. Why only 2?

Because at two deaths I called for a lane switch, I had no chance against my lane opponents and I didn't have the money to start seriously jungling. So I hugged tower, abused my shroud to get EXP and died once more in lane before I simply had enough and walked top and outright told one of our top laners to get bot so GP doesn't feed.

My response was "we'll own top and go bot".

Every single one of my deaths (not to mention the rest of the team's deaths) afterward was caused because top lane were jerks that don't understand the concept of support.

Not every death is the fault of the person who dies.

[Misery Esquire]

Wait wait wait, I'm confused. If I initiate people will follow? :smallconfused:

1. Play Malphite
2. Go Tank + AP
3. Wait until "5v5 skirmishing" begins
4. ULT CHAAAAAAAAAAAAARGE
5. Everyone follows, unless it looks like a horrifically suicidal situation. Sometimes even then.

You just need the characters that drag people with them.

We won a thirty minute game earlier after having a poor first twenty minutes. I'd disconnected for a good four minutes, Lux was dying, we were behind on kills. Then we got the insperation for gameplay of "I have to leave if this game doesn't end now." We cleared from thier outer towers to thier nexus in ten minutes with an extreme amount of organized splitpushing all three lanes at the same time. Organization wins games. Talking is organization. Communication = Victory.

[Joran]

Alternatively, I continue to steal Djinn's kills. Because I'm damn good at that.


Also, Ren top, Ryze mid, Akali/Blitz bot.
Akali has a MUCH easier time getting fed with Blitz, and that's what she needs to be relevant. Ryze just needs to farm, as does Ren.
Honestly, most of the time, Akali mid is a poor choice, since she lacks the distance she wants to be able to chase targets down through their escapes. She's viable, but its harder for her to get kills.

I'd agree with this. If Blitz manages to grab someone, it's all over for that guy. Akali's Q + autoattack is a huge amount of burst.

Reneketon has a good amount of innate healing, so top for him, even against a 1v2.


Guess who acts like a coach in that he leads his offense—knows what they're all doing, calls audibles on the spot, calls all his own plays? Tom Brady. You can see the difference between the two styles from their championship titles alone. Manning is the Numbers player in this case, and Brady the Wins player.

Uh, no. Manning is the one calling most of the plays. Do you see that chicken dance he does before every play? That's him doing an audible. Tom Brady does a bit of audible too, but Manning is the one that's stereotypically the "offensive coordinator on the field". The reason why Tom Brady has all those rings is the same reason that Bill Parcells has those rings... Bill Belichick. (oh and Tom Brady being a heck of a quarterback who somehow made a offense with Deion Branch as the #1 option...)

P.S. This is why I play Normals. I don't have the energy to constantly coach my team. I do my job of communicating: MIAs, asking the jungler if he needs a leash or where he starts, and pinging on the map for objectives, but I don't really want to look at every one of my teammates builds and telling them they really should not have bought that Warmog's.

[Math_Mage]

I like how the assumption is that these conversations don't happen. It's silly really.

Yes, in queue I talk about what the team should look like. I don't talk for the first 10 minutes after minions spawn because there is rarely any communication that needs to be done beyond "MIA [champion]." And I usually have my lane in such a state that they can't leave to gank (I take laning very seriously folks). I suppose I could jabber about builds, but I don't have time to watch other people's lanes and tell them what they're doing wrong.

I try to help. I told the Vlad that he should probably not be harassing or farming with W because it costs a lot of life and doesn't deal much damage. "I was trying to slow him!" he said. "Why?" I asked. No response. I asked the Malphite why he took heal. No response.

Teaching is not your job, and while I can't speak for the others, it's not what I am referring to. Teaching is great when you can do it, but it's beside the point. Rather, it's the tactical and strategic communication that will make the difference. You grab the reins before your team goes 5/38, and you make it less likely that they will.

There's talking about team comp--and I rather expected you already did that, but it's good to confirm. I included it as the first of a long list of important communications, simply because it is important.

Then there's talking about how matchups are likely to play out. "Mid is Ashe vs. Kat, Kat has advantage, focus on safety and cs." "They have Shaco, care early ganks." "I won't need a gank top cuz I'm Annie, get the other lanes ahead while I kill Vlad. :smallwink:" Give your team goals, and they're more likely to play to those goals and avoid stupid mistakes.

(Alternatively..."Ashe gonna have trouble vs. Kat mid, switch with me and you can shut down Vlad top pretty well while I kill Kat.")

Then there's talking about team strategy. "Keep Twitch starved, and we'll win this." "They have AOErape setup, don't clump and 5v5; Janna save ult for counter-initiates." "Focus on taking blue mid-game; Anivia will be a non-issue." "They're 100% early game champs, stay safe and win late." Again, this is a matter of giving your team the long view so they don't get obsessed with short-term screwups. That last one is especially important to keep your team from being discouraged by one or two early deaths or even towers. It's an example I took from a recent game--unfortunately, I can't find the record of it.

Then there's team tactics. If you can't count on MIA calls? Call MIA for everyone. Ping gankable lanes, or ping when you're ready to gank. Ping where wards are needed. Tell your jungler that top needs a cover, even if you aren't top lane (this is also a tactful way of telling top he needs to recall). After a successful gank, ping to tell what objectives people should focus on, even if you weren't in on the gank. Call out who needs which buffs. Lay down a focus order in teamfights.

You won't need to communicate all of these things every single game. Sometimes someone else will; sometimes nobody will need it; sometimes no communication will help matters and you can only watch the trainwreck. But it's important to make those calls when they are needed.

Don't have the energy to coach, or the faith that your teammates will be coachable? Then you can't count on teamplay to benefit your games or your Elo. That's the bottom line.

[ZombyWoof]

See the thing is, I do this communication before minions spawn. Afterwords I'll respond if someone says something or asks a question, but I'm not about to offer advice for people I can't even see on my screen. "you should..." what, exactly? Play more defensively? What if they are? Switch? They're dying hard in a duo lane.

EDIT: I'm pretty sure Manning has more wins than Brady...

Yeah, Tom Brady is 86-32, Peyton is 141-67. Regular season only but Brady hasn't been in 60 playoff games :smalltongue:

[Math_Mage]

See the thing is, I do this communication before minions spawn. Afterwords I'll respond if someone says something or asks a question, but I'm not about to offer advice for people I can't even see on my screen. "you should..." what, exactly? Play more defensively? What if they are? Switch? They're dying hard in a duo lane.

Get them a jungle gank. Push your lane and gank with the jungler. Tell them to back off and let the tower go down so they can farm closer to base, in a safer place. Ward their river. There are lots of options here. Throwing up your hands and ignoring them won't do anything.


EDIT: I'm pretty sure Manning has more wins than Brady...

Yeah, Tom Brady is 86-32, Peyton is 141-67. Regular season only but Brady hasn't been in 60 playoff games :smalltongue:

From those numbers, Brady has a higher win %. Also, rings are what count in football. And I think it's been established by Joran that Manning coordinates hard on the field too.

[Faulty]

but I'm not about to offer advice for people I can't even see on my screen.

But they are on your team. :smallconfused:

[Eldariel]

I present to you, the case against Kill-Death-Assist Ratios Meaning A ****:
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/1765/caseagainstkda.pngSo obviously, we won the game pretty easily (easily enough to start fooling around midway through and rack up some deaths). If I asked you to tell me who you think was the reason we won that game, most would answer "Nocturne and to lesser degree, Ashe".

Now, Nocturne did great. That much is obvious. And yet, that leads us to my main point; why did he do great? Enemy team had Eve and Nunu, both exceedingly capable counterjunglers. Nocturne needs few kills to get going equipment-wise and truly only shines from level 6 onwards. So what happens? Why didn't the counterjungle team wreck Nocturne? Nocturne jungle isn't as resilient as many would like to believe since most of his sustainability relies on Umbral Blades with rather sparse triggers. And yet, it all worked like a dream.

So what happened? Well, basically, Alistar and Ashe ganked Nunu early and scored the kill. After that? Alistar spent the rest of the early game sitting on Eve so she'd go nowhere, while our lanes ensured the laners don't have the opportunity to help out by mostly aggressively engaging (which was safe thanks to Alistar).

Successful Nocturne Jungle far from guarantees a snowball though. These lanes are rather resilient and killing them, especially when most ran Flash/Ghost, is rather hard with Nocturne ultimates. So what happened? Well, the aggressive play I mentioned earlier. I pushed my lane like a beast, thanks to Alistar covering for me. I got to Ryze's tower and made the lane push back. All this happened just in time; when Nocturne finished his jungle Ryze's lane was at my tower. It was academic for me and Nocturne to kill him. And then? I pushed like a beast WITH NOCTURNE, to get to his tower before he respawns, then basing (lost 0 creeps, btw). I have a Pink Ward so it's again relatively safe. Now, Ryze's summoners are down and the lane is pushing again. Boom, second free gank for Nocturne! And at this point, he does indeed begin to snowball. But what won the game? Not Nocturne, that's for sure. Any ganking jungler (Udyr, Nunu, Shaco, etc.) could've done what he did. What won the game was:
1) Alistar/Ashe/Me ensuring the jungler gets to jungle.
2) Alistar/Ashe aggressively harassing Nunu and keeping the people from their lane on their lane.
3) Me setting up the ganks for Nocturne to get it fed.

And yet, if you look at the KDA, you'll know none of these. You'll think Nocturne and Ashe carried Alistar. In fact, most of the thanks for our victory go to Alistar, for creating the midgame with fed Nocturne (and Ashe). And the reason I don't have more kills is likewise academic: Nocturne refused to give me the second blue, and took the blue we stole after that since he wasn't reading chat and didn't realize I was nearby. I had to wait until 15 mins to get blue, in a 25 min game (at the point where nobody on their team dared to lane anyways).

Nocturne did the easiest job of the bunch; perform standard jungle and gank overextended lane, then proceed to faceroll with early superfeed. Further, he took resources he didn't need (blue) for longer than he should, actually making a negative impact over the team's composite performance. And KDA suggests he was the star player of the team.

[Darth Mario]

See the thing is, I do this communication before minions spawn. Afterwords I'll respond if someone says something or asks a question, but I'm not about to offer advice for people I can't even see on my screen. "you should..." what, exactly? Play more defensively? What if they are? Switch? They're dying hard in a duo lane.

Depends on who the enemy is, and who your team is playing, and a whole slew of other options. If they are playing too aggressively against early game champs, something like "try to be more cautious, Champions X and Y are fantastic early/let us know if you're getting pushed so we can gank for you". If it's a matchup that another character on your team would do much better in, you can suggest that switch, and discuss quickly as a team. Yeah, so they're dying hard in a duo lane to Taric/Sion, one of the most brutal lanes known to man. One of them could probably do much better against the Nasus AFKfarming top, while you (assuming "you" are the top laner) could, with your level advantage, put some hurt back on that bot lane if you're quick enough with your switch. It depends on the exact situation, but it's important to remember that your job in a game is NOT to tank, or carry, or support. As stated previously...

It's to break the goddamn nexus.

Whatever you as a player can do at the time towards that goal, you should take advantage of. In order to expect your teammates to play to the best of their technical abilities, you can also assist them in their decision making. Note that once a team dialogue, you'll often (about half of my pub games go this way) end up with a situation where a "leader" is not needed, and the team is capable of collectively making decisions—but all members will still offer advice, ask for help, and offer support to other members.


Uh, no. Manning is the one calling most of the plays.

Rightright. I'm a born and raised Patriots fan, so forgive me for taking Woof's word on how the Colts run their team and asserting my own observations of the Pats play. You're right, of course, but I think that just furthers the point that good teams = teams that communicate.

[Suedars]

EDIT: I'm pretty sure Manning has more wins than Brady...

Yeah, Tom Brady is 86-32, Peyton is 141-67. Regular season only but Brady hasn't been in 60 playoff games :smalltongue:

That puts Brady's win % way higher than Manning's though.

[ZombyWoof]

I show up every game and do what I need to do or apologize for it. And it is not my fault if everyone else on the team fails. And it happens. Not every game, but it seems like it happens for 4-5 games in a row... then I get 4-5 great teams.

[Silverraptor]

I show up every game and do what I need to do or apologize for it. And it is not my fault if everyone else on the team fails. And it happens. Not every game, but it seems like it happens for 4-5 games in a row... then I get 4-5 great teams.

Welcome to LoL, ZombyWoof. We all have been on the 11-straight losing streak, and then get an 11-straight win streak.

[term1nally s1ck]

I show up every game and do what I need to do or apologize for it. And it is not my fault if everyone else on the team fails. And it happens. Not every game, but it seems like it happens for 4-5 games in a row... then I get 4-5 great teams.

Teamwork, as any training course or job recruitment will tell you, is mostly about communication. It doesn't sound like you've done a whole lot of that for the most important part of most games. In a teamwork-oriented game, if you aren't communicating for 10 minutes, then you aren't doing what you need to do.

[Inhuman Bot]

I'm not the only one who thinks tree is bad. Tree is bad. His ult is bad. His burst is low at high levels... and only decent at low levels. His laning presence is meh. I would rather have pretty much any other champ on my team and/or in my lane.

No, Maokai is pretty good, his ult is very good. He's not a burst damage type.

[Volatar]

Apparently there was just a hotfix pushed to the servers, as we got an update but it seems optional, and there are no patch notes anywhere. o.O?

[Astrella]

Kayle changes:


Right now Kayle has a very hard power curve. Her early game is difficult due to her reliance on E for last hitting, which is very hard against certain matchups. However she is a late game goddess due to her passive which becomes stronger the more you are able to farm.

The goal of the re-work is to re-tune her in the following ways:

Make her early game not as harsh to farm with.
Make her late game have less of a hard-scale.
Increase spell leveling incentive through base values.
Re-tune Divine Blessing to open up support-type builds, as well as make the secondary effect more clutch.
Re-tune Reckoning to have a stronger "magey" feel, increase missile speed so it feels more responsive.
Re-tune Righteous Fury to be easier to use at all stages of the game, and have a better leveling incentive.

I'll actually just let you guys know the general direction of it. The numbers aren't set into stone so I will not post those.

Holy Fervor (Passive)
Stat Conversion -
Reckoning

Missile Speed +
AP Ratio +
Mana Cost -
Slow Amount +
Righteous Fury

Mana Cost -
Cooldown --
Range +
Base Damage ++
Divine Blessing

Base Heal ++
Mana cost ++
Movement Speed Duration --
Movement Speed Boost Percentage ++
AP Ratio --
Her offensive abilities are going to receive mana cost reductions and her heal mana cost is going to be increased

[ZombyWoof]

Teamwork, as any training course or job recruitment will tell you, is mostly about communication. It doesn't sound like you've done a whole lot of that for the most important part of most games. In a teamwork-oriented game, if you aren't communicating for 10 minutes, then you aren't doing what you need to do.
I work with a major team and there will easily be 10 minutes during which we don't speak to each other :smallconfused: Wtf?

There's no information for me to convey. What am I supposed to say, "Yeah, got 800 gp now." "Ok going to volley harass a bit."? "Brand still in my lane."

[Astrella]

Updates on how the lanes are doing? Keeping an eye on creep score, look who's farming well and needs to be harassed more? Asking for ganks? Updates on when / what you'll be ganking as a jungler?

[Spartacus]

Well, MIAs tend to come more frequently than every 10 minutes, in my experience.

Also, am I the only one seeing that since the last update, LoL players have collectively played -34 games (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/ladders)?

[Volatar]

Also, am I the only one seeing that since the last update, LoL players have collectively played -34 games (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/ladders)?

Yep. Says -741 for me :smalltongue:

[Spartacus]

Hey look, it's 5.7k now. Weird.

[Raistlin1040]

Here There Be Champion Abilities. (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/news/new-champion-approaches-vayne-night-hunter)

[Spartacus]

Sounds like a champ I'd play. Great chasing. I wonder what the range on the passive is?

[Dogmantra]

So I called the dash and if the giant bolt is a skillshot I called that too. I also called the stealth.

Dang Riot, you're so predictable.

[Math_Mage]

EDIT: Batman backstory, Batman skillset, got it. I wonder how her W interacts with Kayle/Morgana, considering it's supposedly silver-tipped to damage evil beings. Maybe we finally get to see who's in the right? Or maybe nobody is. That'd be typical.


Kayle changes:

Look friggin sweet.


I work with a major team and there will easily be 10 minutes during which we don't speak to each other :smallconfused: Wtf?

There's no information for me to convey. What am I supposed to say, "Yeah, got 800 gp now." "Ok going to volley harass a bit."? "Brand still in my lane."

Er...


Then there's team tactics. If you can't count on MIA calls? Call MIA for everyone. Ping gankable lanes, or ping when you're ready to gank. Ping where wards are needed. Tell your jungler that top needs a cover, even if you aren't top lane (this is also a tactful way of telling top he needs to recall). After a successful gank, ping to tell what objectives people should focus on, even if you weren't in on the gank. Call out who needs which buffs. Lay down a focus order in teamfights.

Also guidance on important objectives in general (who needs to go to which lane off spawn after a fight, going in on enemy buffs at second golem/lizard, need to force dragon fight, etc).

If you don't give people something smart to do, they will do something stupid. Every time. Of course it's their fault for doing that stupid thing, but that doesn't mean you couldn't have prevented it.

And yeah, "Got 1650g for my BFS, buying" is important information. It lets your team know your lane might need a cover; later on, it lets your team know it's 4v5 so they should play safe. It lets your team know you're strong right now, so it'll be a good time to fight when you get back.

[Astrella]

So I called the dash and if the giant bolt is a skillshot I called that too. I also called the stealth.

Dang Riot, you're so predictable.

I know right, making abilities that are thematically tied to a champion's appearance, that's so 2010, Riot.

[Dogmantra]

I know right, making abilities that are thematically tied to a champion's appearance, that's so 2010, Riot.

Yeah sheesh we want more ninja squirrels that shoot lightning and birds that fire laser beams.

[ZombyWoof]

Well, MIAs tend to come more frequently than every 10 minutes, in my experience.

Actually I tend to be really good about keeping people in my lane :smalltongue: They can't leave to gank if they're at 1/2 hp or lower.

And I'm serious, I have learned the art of pressuring my lane enough that they can't leave, but not so much that I get ganked constantly.

[Spartacus]

If they can go back to base, they can gank.

EDIT: Loading a game. Both sides are entirely carries. One side is 4AD+Teemo. The other is 4AP+Pantheon. Should be easy itemization, at least...

EDIT2: And it's a 20 minute game in favour of team AD. Panth/Cait/Ashe/MF/Teemo totally destroyed Annie/Panth/Fiddle/Malzahar/Karthus

[Raistlin1040]

Swain on Swain is hilarious when one Swain (me) is packing Ignite and the other is not.

However the game quickly becomes less hilarious when Malphite has 4k health, a Sunfire, a GA, and is dealing absurd damage to everyone and we lose because the choice is "Focus Malphite and let Annie and Sivir kill us" or "Focus Annie and Sivir and let Malphite and Jarvan kill us". Also players who instalock Miss Fortune, but then say they've never played her and don't want mid. What.

[term1nally s1ck]

Apparently there was just a hotfix pushed to the servers, as we got an update but it seems optional, and there are no patch notes anywhere. o.O?

Actually, the new patch seems to update a small amount almost every time you sign on. Seems like it's got some data tracked only server side it has to download every time.

And Zomby, I'd be amazed if your major team will make no communication through the most critical part of a project taking roughly 1/3 to 1/4 of the time for that task. Early-earlymid is the key stage of LoL games, and is where your play will make or break the game.

[Makensha]

So I called the dash and if the giant bolt is a skillshot I called that too. I also called the stealth.

Dang Riot, you're so predictable.

I was so disappointed when I saw her skill set. I was planning to buy her on day 1 too...

[Cheesegear]

Me: lol Galio free week.
Opp: lol Malphite free week.

Me: Err...I have a skin and am going 4/1/7, you're going 1/5/0...

[Math_Mage]

TSM vs. CLG happening now. (http://www.nationalesl.com/us/lol/news/154788/)

Bans:
TSM: TF / Nidalee Shen
CLG: Irelia Jarvan / Zilean

Picks:
CLG: Alistar / Malzahar Evelynn / Corki Maokai
TSM: Cho'gath Nunu / Janna Vlad / Ashe

Wow. CLG throwing us for a loop here. TSM going for a pretty standard AOErape comp. Ashe makes up for any weakness in initiation. CLG has a super-initiation comp, but they'd better take advantage of it early because they do not want to fight 5v5.

[Eldariel]

CLG vs. TSM G1 (http://clgaming.net/live/666)

Bans: TF, Nid, Ire, Shen, Jarvan, Zilean

Picks
CLG: Alistar, Malz+Eve, Corki+Maokai
TSM: Cho+Nunu, Ashe+Janna, Vlad

This is sick; either Eve or Alistar is jungling! Or they just go "screw jungle, triple roam!"

EDIT: Lol, Shen, that you? You got banned again, didn't you? Sucks to be you. AHAHAH-*cough*

[Math_Mage]

EDIT: Lol, Shen, that you? You got banned again, didn't you? Sucks to be you. AHAHAH-*cough*

It appears...

*puts on sunglasses*

you have been ninja'd.

YEEAAAHHHH

EDIT: Both posted 8:21, both last edited 8:25. :smallamused:

[Eldariel]

I called Alistar-jungle, Maolane, Eve roam tho tho!

[Math_Mage]

Wat. How did they lose that level 1 fight? I don't get it.

[Spartacus]

Having never watched a game, but reading these summaries that you guys post here, I get the impression CLG doesn't like to commit to a fight unless it's already a forgone conclusion in their favor, hence a lot of poking and roaming comps.

[Eldariel]

Wat. How did they lose that level 1 fight? I don't get it.

Ingenious Pool-first from Regi, mostly. They got Flash>Pooled on hard and on level 1, that hurts. Negated the Pulverize pretty hard; otherwise they woulda gotten destroyed.

[Math_Mage]

Ingenious Pool-first from Regi, mostly. They got Flash>Pooled on hard and on level 1, that hurts. Negated the Pulverize pretty hard; otherwise they woulda gotten destroyed.

Ah. I didn't see that.

Man, they're getting stomped hard now. Jiji needs to practice his Eve. Oh, and Hotshot D/C'd briefly.

[Eldariel]

Ah. I didn't see that.

Man, they're getting stomped hard now. Jiji needs to practice his Eve. Oh, and Hotshot D/C'd briefly.

And Alistar hotfix aint' live even tho officials said it is; L O L RIOT!

[Math_Mage]

CLG trying out random stuff, gets dominated by standard strats. The EU commentator makes a good point: they really needed a chance to practice this in scrims and the like, but the anemic state of 5v5 arranged play prevents it.

Game 2 coming up.
Bans:
CLG: Jarvan / Twisted Fate Shen
TSM: Nidalee Cho'gath / Amumu

Picks:
TSM: Zilean / Janna Ashe / Trundle Teemo
CLG: Irelia Nunu / Malzahar Soraka / Caitlyn

wtf Euro comp

[Kettle]

To be fair, CLG had an attitude problem for a long time where they refused to practice/scrim because they wanted to deny all the other teams a chance to learn from playing against them. That could come back to bite them really hard.

[Silverraptor]

Here There Be Champion Abilities. (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/news/new-champion-approaches-vayne-night-hunter)

Seems like another assassin character with a ranged poppy stun and a modified Miss Fortune passive.

[Eldariel]

Wowsorakaomfg

[Math_Mage]

Wowsorakaomfg

CLG is imitating Europe now, for the lulz. Neither team has much health. Actually, both teams are probably duo laning their AD carries.

[Eldariel]

CLG is imitating Europe now, for the lulz. Neither team has much health. Actually, both teams are probably duo laning their AD carries.

More than likely. Soraka gonna be some good against Ashe/Troll. Doublesupport from Zile/Janna gonna be really strong too. Dying gonna be hard. Irelia gonna roflstomp if she gets a kill, especially with Soraka and Nunu.

[Faulty]

Vayne seems interesting. It's nice to see some more stealth that's not stupid (Akali and Teemo vs. Twitch, Eve and Shaco, whose stealth is ill conceived IMO) and she seems like she rewards good positioning. Looks like an interesting ranged take on the assassin role.

[Astrella]

Hoping she'll be an assassin and not a ranged AD though. And where's my female tank. :smallconfused:

[Silverraptor]

Vayne seems interesting. It's nice to see some more stealth that's not stupid (Akali and Teemo vs. Twitch, Eve and Shaco, whose stealth is ill conceived IMO) and she seems like she rewards good positioning. Looks like an interesting ranged take on the assassin role.

I'm sure Vlad will love her, with her being a vampire slayer, or something along those lines.


Hoping she'll be an assassin and not a ranged AD though. And where's my female tank. :smallconfused:

I'm confused too.:smallfrown:

(Although I guess you could say the female Taric skin is a female tank. But that would be unofficial.)

[Faulty]

Hoping she'll be an assassin and not a ranged AD though. And where's my female tank. :smallconfused:

Eh. Her abilities seem very assassiny to me. She has abilities that let her close on enemies, an ability that encourages using positioning to shaft (harr harr) a single target and in general strong single target nuking. She definitely seems like you'd pop your steroid, roll into position, nuke down carry, roll away.

[Makensha]

My Thoughts on the NuRyze (http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=8595555#post8595555)

And of course some of the higher ELO players might argue some of my points, but think about my main point even if you don't agree with some smaller bits.

[Math_Mage]

CLG getting out-pushed and out-sustained. Looks like it'll be 2-0 to TSM.

EDIT: Wow, outplayed hard there. TSM doing CLG's blue, CLG goes to push mid, TSM switches to push top and take 2 turrets.

CLG must be treating this as a scrim night. I can't think of another reason why they would be going with wacky strats and getting themselves outpicked. They're not even playing champs they're good with, except for Doublelift.

[Eldariel]

CLG needs to start practicing their comps in practice games :smallwink:

[Cheesegear]

So, for the last couple of games I've been playing Malphite with my Janna runes. It's going well. Really, really well.

The game just played I went
0/1/10
The Kat I was laning with went 11/0/0
The Kennen in mid went 7/0/0 and occaisionally asked me to deny.

But, how'd we do it? Communication.

[Winthur]

So Vayne is supposed to be a champion based around the theme of defeating all those who are evil.

Naturally, making her skills work only against guys like Cho'Gath wouldn't work so apparently in her world everyone is evil... well I guess you--- *BLAM*

Vayne speaking.

Puns are heresy in the eyes of the Emprah Emperor.

[Raistlin1040]

Hey guys, I really think we should finish Faulty's Champion Database. It was really helpful to myself and I imagine some other players who aren't exceptionally skilled, but there are a lot of holes in champions, or things that are outdated due to reworks in items or champions. I'd be willing to take over management and organization for it if Faulty doesn't want to, but I think we should finish it.

[Math_Mage]

Oh boy oh boy, I got my game working again. It's finally ready to face the world of PvP once more. Had to reinstall twice and double-check my graphics settings. Been stuck on bot games all week. :smallsigh:

EDIT: Probably worth it, though, since I improved my Junglemumu run.

[Volatar]

Hey guys, I really think we should finish Faulty's Champion Database. It was really helpful to myself and I imagine some other players who aren't exceptionally skilled, but there are a lot of holes in champions, or things that are outdated due to reworks in items or champions. I'd be willing to take over management and organization for it if Faulty doesn't want to, but I think we should finish it.

I support this idea. I would be happy to contribute some to it tomarrow when I get a chance.

Faulty is still around to edit it right?

[Inhuman Bot]

And Alistar hotfix aint' live even tho officials said it is; L O L RIOT!

Tournament realm has never been up to date.

[Eldariel]

Tournament realm has never been up to date.

Yeah, but here we had a case of a RIOT employee (Phreak) claiming it was there.

[Mtg_player_zach]

Hey guys, I really think we should finish Faulty's Champion Database. It was really helpful to myself and I imagine some other players who aren't exceptionally skilled, but there are a lot of holes in champions, or things that are outdated due to reworks in items or champions. I'd be willing to take over management and organization for it if Faulty doesn't want to, but I think we should finish it.

I can contribute some, pm me for specifics. I can do jungle routes and stuff too.

[Arbitrarity]

Characters without guides:

Blitzcrank
Caitlyn
Cassiopeia
Evelynn
Gragas
Heimer
Irelia
Jax
Karma
Kog'Maw
Leblanc
Malzahar
Master Yi
Nunu
Olaf
Pantheon
Renekton
Ryze
Shaco
Singed (0-15-15, R>Q>W>E, Ghost+exhaust/flash/cleanse/ignite/teleport, RoA, Rylai's, FoN and other tanky items, magic pen reds, dodge seals, flat MR blues, MS quints)
Sion
Sona
Soraka
Swain
Teemo
Tristana
Trundle
Tryndamere
Twisted Fate
Twitch
Udyr
Urgot
Veigar
Vladimir
Warwick
Xin Zhao
Zilean

[lord_khaine]

Well, doesnt we allready have 1 Udyr guide?

Still, i can add another build, and one for Jax as well, though im not sure about the format they are suposed to be in.

[Moonshadow]

So, I just had 4 Normal rank matches with my buddy. He was Vlad for all 4 games, I ended up being Janna the first 2, and Amumu the last 2.

It was typical no-ELO Normal matches. Aka, we got stuck with pretty terrible players for every match. Seeing as it's Pirate free week, all of the game had either MF, Gangplank, or both.


For the last few matches, I have been attempting to practice my map awareness skills. I had CV/Clarity for all the games, and I was basically the only ward buyer on my team, apart from my Vlad friend who bought a few to help me out.

We won the first 3 games, despite having frankly terrible teams, that had no support or tanks unless I picked them, so I naturally did. We managed to win these games, despite all 3 of them having a rather heavily fed Katarina, and no CC at all apart from Janna's Tornado or Mumu's Bandage Toss.

Last game though, was a massive cluster(bleep).

It starts up. 3 pubbies instalock Xin Zhao, Gangplank and MF. Xin then starts screaming for a tank. First sign that things were going to hell. I grab Mumu reluctantly, because I'm not really super good as him (I have a bit of trouble initiating with Bandage Toss)

We get a minor stroke of luck, and their Twitch disconnects at the start, so it's Vlad/Mumu vs Yi. We trade harasses for a bit. We eventually get ganked a couple times when our wards run out and Kat and their GP come up to beat the snot out of us.

Xin starts screaming orders and mass pinging everywhere and yelling for me to get down to the bottom lane and help him. My friend and I ignore him because we're having enough trouble holding our lane as it is, seeing as no one ever decides to call MIA when Kat comes up to gank us.

Game ends with us holding out for a while, even managing to ace them when they got Baron, but in the end, we couldn't hold with 3 inhibs down to one of theirs and we get aced and our Nexus gets melted.

I feel like I'm getting a lot better at map awareness and wards placement and generally trying to be a better team player. But man, it's really quite frustrating when 3 people instalock their squishy DPS types and then start screaming for a tank, and then never placing any wards or calling mia or anything :smallmad:

I'd like to think that it makes me into a better player by not copying them though.

[Faulty]

Hey guys, I really think we should finish Faulty's Champion Database. It was really helpful to myself and I imagine some other players who aren't exceptionally skilled, but there are a lot of holes in champions, or things that are outdated due to reworks in items or champions. I'd be willing to take over management and organization for it if Faulty doesn't want to, but I think we should finish it.

I'd be happy to turn over the reigns to you. Knock yourself out.

[Brother Oni]

I'd like to think that it makes me into a better player by not copying them though.

Also, /mute is your friend. :smalltongue:

[Dada]

Adding a Ryze guide to Faultys database since he is one of the champions I actually feel very proficient playing.

Ryze
Champion Role: Magic Carry / Off-tank
Solo Priority: High
1 v 2 Capability: High
Jungle Capability: None
Farm Dependency: Medium
Runes:
Quints: Mana, Health, Magic pen
Marks: Magic pen
Seals: Health, Armor, Mana, Mana regen
Glyphs: Flat mana, Mana regen, Magic res
Masteries: 9/7/14 making sure to get 15% magic pen, max mana->health regen and meditation.
Summoners: Flash/Ghost (Ignite and teleport are propably fine too)
Start: Sapphire Crystal + 2 pots
Core: Catalyst(2), Tear of the Goddess, Glacial Shroud
Further Item Suggestions: Banshees Veil, Rod of Ages, Void Staff, Abyssal Scepter, Frozen Heart, Archangels/Manamune, Blue Elixir(!)
Skilling Priority: R = Q > W > E. Get a single point in E at 4 to trigger your passive
Notes:
Ryze does fine with standard caster runes, but a dedicated page with mana runes, in particular flat blues, really help his early game. Ryze is a beastly laner, and very farm dependant until he has his core, which explains his high solo priority. Dual lane Ryze works fine, just make sure to get a lane partner who can help you rack up kills instead of the lacking CS. Standard build is Catalyst -> boots 1 + Tear -> Negatron Cloak or Glacial Shroud -> Catalyst -> Blue Elixir + whatever. You don't really want to upgrade your Catalysts until the laning phase is over since they give you such a huge benefit. One becomes Rod of Ages, the other one Banshees Veil. Then build to counter the enemy team. Upgrading Tear is NOT a priority, don't do it until you're maxed out in all other slots. Elixir + Glacial Shroud + Q almost caps you on CDR, make sure to get those elixirs.

In lane, harass with Q all day, use QWQEQ for damage if possible. You can clear entire creep waves with REQWQ, make use of it. Q is your damage, use it whenever it is up, and use your other spells to get it off cooldown asap. As soon as you have Catalyst + Tear, you should be able to spam it almost constantly in lane to build up your Tear, harass and farm. In a teamfight they will need to focus you, but you are hard to kill with your tanky items. Flash and Ghost allows you to kite very well, which can make you win teamfights almost single-handedly.

[lord_khaine]

Adding a guide to Jax



Jax
Champion Role: Fighter
Solo Priority: medium
1 v 2 Capability: bad
Jungle Capability: decent
Farm Dependency: medium, but scales strongly with gear
Runes:

* Quints:health
* Marks: ArP
* Seals: Dodge
* Glyphs:Scaling MR

Masteries:Here its a very good idea to get defensive masteries, especaly the dodge bonus
Summoners:So far i have found cleanse and Exhaust to work the best.
Start:Get a regrowth pendant, and make it into a Philosofers stone asap, then get a vampyric scepter and a pair of boots.
Core:philosofers stone, Ninja tabi, vampyric scepter, Phage, Rage blade
Further Item Suggestions: Defensive items.
Skilling Priority:R>Q>rest, get at least 1 rank in each though
Notes:Early game regrowth pendant and philosofers stone gives lane endurance, further augumentet by a little bit of lifesteal. Also, dodge seals and masteries makes it less of a priority to get Ninja tabi at start, making them less of a priority.
Also, W-->Q harrashment is pretty nasty early on, though you need the mana regen from philosofers to keep it up.
Later game, jump in right after the tank, and start pounding on whoever seems to be slowed or stunned, Jax is tough enough, but not quite enough to survive initiating against a full team of 5.

Also, grab the chance to do a split push whenever you can, Jax got a crazy damage output after level 5, and is able to crush an entire wave of minions in a very short time.

[Raistlin1040]

Alright guys, later today I will copy Faulty's guide posts and repost them here so I can update them. Arb put up the list of what we need, and I encourage taking a look at Fiddlesticks, Gangplank, and Alistar if you play any of those guys regularly, to see if they need to be changed since the reworks.