[3.5]A Versatility-Based Meleer

[The Rabbler]

In a sudden flash of interest, I decided that I wanted to make the most versatile melee character possible. My goal is that there should rarely, if ever, be a situation in which the character can't do something useful.

The basis for this build will be the martial adepts, as they are widely regarded as the most effective melee classes in the game and because they scale without having levels in them. My build so far is:
swordsage 2/crusader 2/warblade 2/chameleon 2/shadow sun ninja 4/master of the nine 5/uncanny trickster 3,
which nets me IL 17 on all three adepts. I plan to focus on maneuvers with utility to them such as the shadow hand teleportation maneuvers and iron heart surge.

My problem is, I'm not very good at making up builds. Therefore, my question to the playground is this: What could I change about this build to make it more effective? I want it to be able to deal respectable damage and always have options available. also, what items (besides shax's handbag, belt of battle, and wing grafts) should I include with the character?

[true_shinken]

Haberdash the Masked (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88633) wants to have a word with you.

[No brains]

In choosing a weapon, I would go Halberd if you want to have a ton of options. It can trip, do double damage vs a charge, has two damage types, AND can get the third damage type through a Weapon Style feat in Complete Warrior! It also has an exotic cousin that grants reach called the Dwarven War Pike in Races of Stone. The weapon equivalency feat rules can make it so you can dual-wield one reach weapon.

It boggles the mind!

[Firechanter]

Two questions:



swordsage 2/crusader 2/warblade 2/chameleon 2/shadow sun ninja 4/master of the nine 5/uncanny trickster 3,

Don't you give up a lot of BAB that way? I am too lazy to look them up, but Chameleon and Uncanny Trickster sound like 3/4 BAB classes. With the BAB you lose from Swordsage, SSN and Mo9, your level 20 BAB will be just 14. The 4th attack may not be such a big deal, but you may have trouble hitting stuff.


which nets me IL 17 on all three adepts.

Unless those non-ToB PrCs somehow allow you to count fully towards your IL, I'm ending up at IL 15. Not too shabby, but not enough if you want level 9 maneuvers.
Note: even martial adept classes count only 1/2 towards each other's IL. I.e. your 2 Crusader levels only increase your Swordsage IL by 1, and so forth.

[Greenish]

Don't you give up a lot of BAB that way? I am too lazy to look them up, but Chameleon and Uncanny Trickster sound like 3/4 BAB classes. With the BAB you lose from Swordsage, SSN and Mo9, your level 20 BAB will be just 14. The 4th attack may not be such a big deal, but you may have trouble hitting stuff.Probably using partial BAB for 16 BAB.

Unless those non-ToB PrCs somehow allow you to count fully towards your IL, I'm ending up at IL 15. Not too shabby, but not enough if you want level 9 maneuvers.Uncanny Trickster.

[The Rabbler]

Probably using partial BAB for 16 BAB.
Uncanny Trickster.

right on both accounts.

as for Haberdash, I love the concept but not the execution. Exotic weapons and skill tricks don't spell out options for me, though apparently there are quite a few things you can do with the right exotic weapons and skill tricks. Haberdash has some combat viability, but mostly through intelligent use of synergistic weapons and tricks and not through actual power in combat. I prefer to have solid options all the time.

though, my group's next campaign could easily end up being a gestalt campaign and combining this fool with haberdash would be a lot of fun.

[Draz74]

Probably using partial fractional BAB for 16 BAB.
Uncanny Trickster.
Yeah, Uncanny Trickster can give you +2.5 / 3 Initiator levels for one class ... and I guess if the chosen class is Shadow Sun Ninja (or if the DM allows you to extend Master of Nine beyond 5 levels, which is cheese), then UT could add initiator level to all three initiator classes, indirectly.


though, my group's next campaign could easily end up being a gestalt campaign and combining this fool with haberdash would be a lot of fun.

If you're looking for versatile melee initiators for Gestalt, I happen to be quite fond of a little build I started working on:

Human Warblade 20 // Swordsage 2 / Rogue 2 / Barbarian 2 / Psychic Warrior 2 / Crusader 2 / Fighter 2 / Master of Nine 5 / Uncanny Trickster 3

using (of course)

Feat variant Rogue
Unarmed variant Swordsage
Whirling Frenzy, Lion Spirit Totem, Wolf Totem Variants for Barbarian


Fights with a large spiked shield and a kusari-gama, as well as unarmed strikes via Snap Kick.

With two flaws, can pick out a total of 23 Feats.

[The Rabbler]

Yeah, Uncanny Trickster can give you +2.5 / 3 Initiator levels for one class ... and I guess if the chosen class is Shadow Sun Ninja (or if the DM allows you to extend Master of Nine beyond 5 levels, which is cheese), then UT could add initiator level to all three initiator classes, indirectly.

actually, it gives you 3.5/3 IL. 1.5 from the actual class, and another 2 from the class features.


If you're looking for versatile melee initiators for Gestalt, I happen to be quite fond of a little build I started working on:

Human Warblade 20 // Swordsage 2 / Rogue 2 / Barbarian 2 / Psychic Warrior 2 / Crusader 2 / Fighter 2 / Master of Nine 5 / Uncanny Trickster 3

using (of course)

Feat variant Rogue
Unarmed variant Swordsage
Whirling Frenzy, Lion Spirit Totem, Wolf Totem Variants for Barbarian


Fights with a large spiked shield and a kusari-gama, as well as unarmed strikes via Snap Kick.

With two flaws, can pick out a total of 23 Feats.

you might want to swap the fighter 2 feat for dungeon-crasher. It helps take advantage of the shock trooper's other tactical uses. throw in knock back, trip, and sudden leap and you can charge someone, trip them, sudden leap, free-action fall, and knock-back them into the ground for the rest of your attacks giving you what amounts to (# attacks-1)x(4d6+(1.5 str)) extra damage for low, low cost of three feats and one maneuver.

as far as the build goes, you only need to take barbarian 1 for all of your ACFs. there's no point in continuing it after that, so you might as well go for something useful like totemist, binder, factotum, incarnate, or master of masks.

I personally wouldn't use that build because I like fitting as much as possible into each side of a gestalt. It gets confusing but I find it to be more fun.

[Draz74]

actually, it gives you 3.5/3 IL. 1.5 from the actual class, and another 2 from the class features.
Eh, I guess in a rules-lawyer way that might be correct. I certainly wouldn't allow it as a DM though.


you might want to swap the fighter 2 feat for dungeon-crasher. It helps take advantage of the shock trooper's other tactical uses. throw in knock back, trip, and sudden leap and you can charge someone, trip them, sudden leap, free-action fall, and knock-back them into the ground for the rest of your attacks giving you what amounts to (# attacks-1)x(4d6+(1.5 str)) extra damage for low, low cost of three feats and one maneuver.
I did think about Dungeoncrasher. It would be nice. But since my build doesn't take Shock Trooper (or even Power Attack), it didn't seem worthwhile.

You don't need Power Attack to do massive damage when you use Battle Jump to "charge" an opponent (sometimes multiple times per round), Pounce to make a full attack on said charges, and White Raven stances/maneuvers (and Valorous weapons) to add massive damage to each attack of the charge. :smallamused:


as far as the build goes, you only need to take barbarian 1 for all of your ACFs. there's no point in continuing it after that, so you might as well go for something useful like totemist, binder, factotum, incarnate, or master of masks.
Wolf Totem Barbarian 2 gets you free Improved Trip. No need to take Combat Expertise.


I personally wouldn't use that build because I like fitting as much as possible into each side of a gestalt. It gets confusing but I find it to be more fun.

Fair enough. For my part I'm in love with the Warblade capstone.