More immediate actions?

[KoboldCleric]

Hello playgrounders! I'm currently DMing a 3.5 game and am looking for a little help in powering up one of the major rivals/threats/BBEGs while sticking as close to the rules as I can. I'm a pretty lenient DM (when it comes to helping my players realize their vision for their character) so I'm free to take such license myself, of course, but I'd rather not take it too much farther than what I'd allow for my players. The long and short of it is I'm looking to give her more immediate actions ... Just giving her an extra immediate action per turn is on the table as my last resort.

Right now she's a "specialist sorcerer" who uses primarily abjuration, evocation, and transmutation for defense, blasting, and movement respectively. Her purpose is to be challenging on her own, mostly by negating attacks of the PC's and using terrain and mobility to her advantage. She uses a lot of battlefield shaping spells such as walls to limit the ability of the PC's to rely on their primary tactics and make them try something else. She also uses Arcane fusion quite often in conjuntion with spells such as baleful transpostion to do some damage or shaping and also completely rearrange the battlefield in that way.

I've given her both abrupt jaunt and wings of cover to dissuade the PC's from using straitforward tactics against her as well ... however, a fourth PC is about to (re-)join the game (we've had three for a good while now) and I'm afraid that with the added firepower the PC's may feel they can fall back to blasting, which is exactly what I'm trying to discourage for this particular challenge, hence the desire to have her be able to use both abrupt jaunt and wings of cover in the same round, for example.

Does anyone have thoughts or suggestions on how to go about this?

[Douglas]

Sorry, but this is pretty much impossible without homebrew or third party. Getting more standard or move actions, or even full round actions, is not especially difficult. Getting more swift actions is rare but there are a (very) few ways to do it. Getting more immediate actions just plain doesn't happen. The only semi-exception I know of is Stance of Alacrity from Tome of Battle, and that's only an effective immediate action rather than the real thing and it's specifically limited to counters - and despite that limitation it's an extremely high level ability and takes up your stance.

[Essence_of_War]

I think you can simulate what you're trying to do here with the "Craft Contingent Spell" feat. Depending how liberal you are with the contingent triggers you could have a contingent Abrupt Jaunt keyed to her saying "run" in Draconic and a Wings of Cover keyed to her saying "duck" in Draconic.

I don't remember the precise wording of the feat and don't have my books within easy access, but contingencies that are contingent on her taking particular free actions could simulate more immediate actions.

Another route might be to check out the psionic power "Schism".
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/schism.htm

You could imagine a sorcerer researching or being given an arcane version of schism where the schism'd mind uses it's action each round to ready an action to cast a particular spell if she says a particular phrase. This seems like it might be tricky to adapt though.

[NichG]

Give her one or more sentient items. A sentient item gets its own set of actions every round, so if it has an immediate action spell that it can cast (X/day or at will) it can take an immediate action to protect her or whatever.

[Cadian 9th]

The problem is with contigent spells, is that, as far as I can tell, you're going to have to be extremely specific, such as " Duck 23 " to trigger Contigent Wings of Cover #23. Otherwise, they'll all trigger at once.

A good thing to use is a Glyph Seal, it allows you to trigger it for no action. If you put celerity in them, that's free actions right there.

Work on getting bonus standard actions, such as by shapechanging into a choker, then be readying actions to blast any spellcasters who are to blast you. It goes a long way... If you use Syncrocity (The Psionic Power), she'll get her action no matter what. Now, you've got one less blast to worry about.

Remember Arcane Spellsurge, it's a free quickening for all arcane spells, and since you're a sorcerer, you can still cast a spell with your standard action due to the metamagic increased casting time. (Invisible spell, from Cityscape is a good choice, though any metamagic will do). The spell is in Dragon Magic.

If you take levels in warweaver (heroes of Battle), not only can you give the players a surprise as a well placed Move action heal and other buffs, but you can also boost yourself using a move action gained otherwise, such as through lesser celerity. Also, during a time stop, you can cast lots of buffs in addition to delayed spells, and then trigger them as you need later. Finally, it lets you buff your long term minions all at once.

[Eldariel]

Technically, more swift actions could grant you more immediate actions since that's what an immediate action consumes; your swift action for the next turn. So stands to reason (but this is never stated in RAW) that any extra swift actions you have could be used to gain extra immediate actions instead.

Only surefire way to get extra immediates though is simply to double your actions á la Shapechanging into Chronotyryn [Fiend Folio].

[faceroll]

I'm curious, how are you using Abrupt Jaunt on a sorcerer (or Arcane Fusion on a wizard)? edit: oh wait I was thinking of the Sorcerer one, Arcane Spellsurge?


Sorry, but this is pretty much impossible without homebrew or third party. Getting more standard or move actions, or even full round actions, is not especially difficult. Getting more swift actions is rare but there are a (very) few ways to do it. Getting more immediate actions just plain doesn't happen. The only semi-exception I know of is Stance of Alacrity from Tome of Battle, and that's only an effective immediate action rather than the real thing and it's specifically limited to counters - and despite that limitation it's an extremely high level ability and takes up your stance.

Interesting you bring up ToB. There's a dragon pseudo-template, similar to lore drake, from Dragons of Eberron, that lets you swap spells known for maneuvers.

Could find a counter that functions like wings of cover and still be using abrupt jaunt.

[Cog]

Could find a counter that functions like wings of cover and still be using abrupt jaunt.
The ToB interrupts are still immediate actions.

[faceroll]

The ToB interrupts are still immediate actions.

You can't use Stance of Alacrity to mix your immediate actions up? Abrupt Jaunt first, then Steel Wind that orb away?

[Cog]

Yeah, that would work. My bad for not reading the quote as closely as I ought.

[Curmudgeon]

So stands to reason (but this is never stated in RAW) that any extra swift actions you have could be used to gain extra immediate actions instead.
I don't think so. Immediate actions are more powerful than swift actions because you can also take them when it's not your turn, whereas swift actions are always limited to your turn. So more immediate actions would let you take more swift actions, since immediate actions can be taken on your turn also, but more swift actions won't give you more of the more powerful immediate actions.

[Douglas]

By RAW, immediate actions only "effectively" use your next turn's swift action. The actual restriction is that if you use an immediate action when it's not your turn you cannot use any immediate or swift action until after your next turn ends. This means that using an immediate action effectively consumes all of your next turn's swift actions, however many that might be. Ruby Knight Vindicator with a bazillion Turn attempts Shapechanged into a Chronotyryn? Sorry, that single Counter you used means no Quickened spells or Boosts next turn despite your Dual Actions ability and no matter how many times you activate Divine Impetus.

Divine Impetus does give an example that contradicts this, but we all know how bad WotC is about accuracy in their examples, right?:smallwink:

[KoboldCleric]

Thanks for the input everyone. I honestly didn't really expect there to be anything.

I do really like the idea of using an Arcane version of "schism" though ... appropriately reflavored, of course, and I can't believe I didn't think of using craft contingent spell!

I read Curmudgeon's interpretation of the swift/immediate action interaction the same way, though I've been following threads on these forums for enough years that I would have just accepted his reading either way.

I have another recurring "BBEG" also who already makes heavy use of illusions and the invisible spell feat as well as deceptive spell from the same source so I'd rather avoid too much similarity here, but I do love the feat, so thanks for the suggestion!

Without trying to start anything over it, Bo9S is really the only book that doesn't see use in my group, so I try to avoid using it as well. I'm by far the most accepting of it ... the rest of the group, for better or worse, dislikes the feel of it. It's jokingly/derogatorily referred to as the book of "weeaboo fightin' magiks". At some level I agree with them (if I'm trying to make a non-magic character it's hard not to cringe at many of the swordsage strikes), but that's neither here nor there. There is a staunch dislike of "per encounter" type powers in my group (as it kills immersion for us) and many of the effects in the book compare similarly to things I've allowed melee oriented characters to do since the early days of 3.0 when I started DMing anyway (add daze/fear conditions with attacks, get miss chances or increased movement options when fighting defensively and so on), so I'll pass on it for now.

I have abrupt jaunt on her because it fits the concept. I've never seen any logical reason why there couldn't be a specialist sorcerer (in our games it's actually likely for a sorcerer to have an affinity for a certain school or type of magic). I merely alluded to it in the OP because I was looking for RAW/RAI answers, but character creation in our group is often uneven. Some players get gestalt, extra feats or skills, etc. depending on their character concept. I like to think I'm fairly adept at recognizing relative power levels and I know how each of my players plays ... so I have no problem letting people have the freedom to make their concept a reality. Everyone at the table is mature enough to know that no one is trying to out do anyone else or "win" the game, it's more the action at the table that my group cares about ... but I do like to have at least some rules basis for things rather than handwaving everything ... hence the thread.

Thanks again for the responses ... looks like a craft contingent spell/schism combo should work out splendidly :)

[Eldariel]

By RAW, immediate actions only "effectively" use your next turn's swift action. The actual restriction is that if you use an immediate action when it's not your turn you cannot use any immediate or swift action until after your next turn ends. This means that using an immediate action effectively consumes all of your next turn's swift actions, however many that might be.

Yeah; the line "effectively, using an immediate action before your turn is equivalent to using your swift action for the coming turn" raises a question on the intent tho :smallwink:

[Thurbane]

A familiar is a solid way to get "extra actions" - especially if you invest ranks in UMD. Having an ivisible Imp perched on your shoulder, ready to cut loose with a Rod of Many Wands, is a nice surprise.

Speaking of Wands, the Dual Wand Wielder feat is another way to nab an "extra action" - you can activate two wands, and also get off a swift or immediate spell.