What So-Called Gaming "Expectations" Can You Not Stand?

[MechaKingGhidra]

When people don't hear about a game until well-after it's released or they simply don't have the time for it in-between other aspects of their lives, it can be awfully frustrating to come in fresh and suddenly be bombarded just because you DARED to ask a question.

Maybe you are being hindered because any FAQs you find don't cover your question. Perhaps you borrowed the game from a friend and they've lost the manual. Maybe it's not covered *anywhere*, having been absorbed into the culture of 'things you are expected to know because if you're gaming, clearly you've played x, y, and z games (ummm...no, I haven't) so it's stupid to ask as it is blatantly obvious (no, it's not)'.

Whatever the case may be, have you ever played a game and been taken aback by anything of the like? So, be it taking the /help directories too literally (they're quite vague much of the time due to limiting their word count in some games) or wondering why all the keybindings are so (seemingly) erratically spaced out: what peeves you off because everyone else seems to take it for granted and thinks less of you for it?


When I first heard about the Diablo games, I wasn't able to find the original anywhere as it was simply too old of a game. Diablo II, however, I borrowed from a friend and had a great deal of fun and frustration (mostly the latter, though) from it.

I have been keeping myself in the dark about Diablo III mostly because I want a fresh perspective and not go in outright *expecting* any one thing or another for the eventuality of me getting it when it is finally released.

Also, by the time I found out Blizzard was even working on the bloody sequel in the first place, there was so much information and discussion about it that I just wasn't going to wade in there and get ripped to shreds by people who think everyone on the god-forsaken planet interested in the series just automatically knows everything there is about II as well as all the specialized lingo to go with it.

I don't expect anyone to hold my hand but I truly hate being treated like I'm a complete moron just because I wasn't doing Baal runs within the first week the Lord of Destruction expansion was released. Or the fact that I don't know the names of obscure-named random item drops to go with some special min/max build that was posted on some site I never heard of. Or that...nevermind, you get the point.

But yeah, your stories?

[potatocubed]

I've noticed a similar problem with a lot of RPG guides: I look up a section in the guide for a boss I'm having trouble with - typically about halfway through the game or so - and the guide says "This is an easy fight if you equip [item I've never heard of] and use [character I didn't recruit] at [unheard-of level]." And that's it. No help, no information, just "Spam Knights of the Round and it's all over in ten minutes lol."

I think if I was to summarise, I dislike the expectation that many guides have that I've been following the guide from the beginning. I prefer guides I can just drop in and out of.

[Aron Times]

I hate how it's taken for granted that civility and good manners are not important in online games. Many go for the bully mentality to justify their verbal abuse of fellow players, i.e. they were tough enough not to crack then, so newcomers have no right to complain. Being a regular at TeamLiquid.net, a heavily-moderated forum for Starcraft 2, I've never found their rules restrictive in the way their detractors claim. These are often the same people who are okay with internet "hazing."

TL's rules can be summed up as, "Don't be a ****."

[druid91]

I hate how it's taken for granted that civility and good manners are not important in online games. Many go for the bully mentality to justify their verbal abuse of fellow players, i.e. they were tough enough not to crack then, so newcomers have no right to complain. Being a regular at TeamLiquid.net, a heavily-moderated forum for Starcraft 2, I've never found their rules restrictive in the way their detractors claim. These are often the same people who are okay with internet "hazing."

TL's rules can be summed up as, "Don't be a ****."

This.

I have no Idea how many Halo CE matches I've quit because people wouldn't stop trash talking each other long enough to fight.

[Grogmir]

Just once, and I probably shouldn't be surprised but. 3 or 4 years ago I was working on a 3.5 build, I had browsed the Char-op boards, was fine putting characters together, but not in the league of some of them on there.

I put up a character asking for advice, I specified 1 thing. That his first feat had to be Run, I explained I knew it was very underpar, it was purly a RP thing. The guy could run thats all.

Cue two pages of abuse about how bad Run was, Repeated Questioning about why I wanted it, and then when someone finally actually put a character up, they omitted run! As 'I figured you didn't need it and it doesn't work with my build.' :smallfurious:

I don't really go on money game forums though.

[dsmiles]

I hate how it's taken for granted that not everyone wants to game online. There are so few single player games coming out nowadays. If I wanted "social interaction" (which is not a term I'd use to describe online gaming), I'd go out to dinner with my friends, or get together for some tabletop gaming.

[Murska]

I don't really encounter this much, but the few cases that have slightly annoyed me is how people tend to expect that you know all the maps of the game inside-out the first time you're playing. Sometimes, you just didn't yet figure out that there was a tunnel under that bush that leads to a house in another part of the map, especially because nobody told it to you and it doesn't show up in the minimap or anything.

[Artanis]

I hate how it's taken for granted that not everyone wants to game online. There are so few single player games coming out nowadays. If I wanted "social interaction" (which is not a term I'd use to describe online gaming), I'd go out to dinner with my friends, or get together for some tabletop gaming.

This. Just because I like singleplayer doesn't mean that I'm somehow a moron or a bad person. But so many people look down on you just because you don't feel like putting up with the crap you run into online.

[Just_Ice]

This is why I hate DotA. I've yet to play a game of DotA or its spinoffs that was polite in any way, shape or form.

[MechaKingGhidra]

This is why I hate DotA. I've yet to play a game of DotA or its spinoffs that was polite in any way, shape or form.

Oh lordy. I thought Diablo was bad enough. I am kicking myself in the rear for having DotA completely slip my mind as it was an offender long before Diablo ever was (for me, personally, that is).

[Winterwind]

That's why you don't ever, under any circumstances, play public DotA games. DotA is a game that's always to be played only with people you know. :smalltongue:

Oh, and I second Joseph Silver. The assumption of some people that just because you're on the 'net any kind of social norms and nicety goes out the window is both mind-boggling and tragic.

[Mx.Silver]

Maybe not so much amongst players, but one so-called 'accepted truth' that gets thrown a lot in gaming media is the notion that that good gameplay is twitch gameplay and that turn-based games are in someway 'outdated' and need to 'evolve'. I know we hear a lot about how people supposedly have shorter attention-spans these days, so I can understand that slower paced game styles won't appeal to everyone, but I've yet to see any proper reason being put forward as to why this dislike should be treated as the 'correct' preference.


Converesly, there's also a vocal minority opinion that if a complex game takes the time to fully explain the rules to a player this is 'hand-holding' or 'dumbing-down'. The mentally behind it seems to be that if you aren't willing to essentially compile your own personal manual and encyclopedia to the game then you don't really deserve to do well at it (such an opinion has been directed at me before when I cited the lack of detailed information on the factions in Dominions 3 as a downside to the game). The fact that the pokemon games seem to embrace this as a core design philosophy is one of the reasons I stopped playing them.


I hate how it's taken for granted that not everyone wants to game online. There are so few single player games coming out nowadays. If I wanted "social interaction" (which is not a term I'd use to describe online gaming), I'd go out to dinner with my friends, or get together for some tabletop gaming.

I also agree with this. Personally, I won't typically bother playing a game on multiplayer with someone I don't already know.

[Xefas]

Here is an (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRlYM9F50EQ) interesting video about how gaming communities get developed. They use DOTA as an example.

[Leecros]

I hate how it's taken for granted that civility and good manners are not important in online games. Many go for the bully mentality to justify their verbal abuse of fellow players, i.e. they were tough enough not to crack then, so newcomers have no right to complain. Being a regular at TeamLiquid.net, a heavily-moderated forum for Starcraft 2, I've never found their rules restrictive in the way their detractors claim. These are often the same people who are okay with internet "hazing."

TL's rules can be summed up as, "Don't be a ****."

This is why i dislike playing any kind of Multiplayer or MMO. The people who play them, or at least the most vocal minority, are...well, jerks. Anyone who isn't good at the game is worth nothing to them and they make sure that they know it. It irritates me that people can be so immature and i've seriously seen younger kids be more mature than people my age(early twenties) when playing the same game.



This is why I hate DotA. I've yet to play a game of DotA or its spinoffs that was polite in any way, shape or form.

LoL is just as bad, it irritates me that some people would rather bash lesser skilled players because they're....lesser skilled. It's actually quite counter intuitive, why would you abuse someone on your team mate just because they're not good? Wouldn't it make more sense to help him be better so your team actually has a chance to win?

[LordShotGun]

Game developers coming out with day 1 DLC that costs more then the game itself.

I don't advocate piracy and I hate doing it, but after I spend 60$ on a game, I want the FULL game, not stuff that I have to pay 40-80 dollars extra for 10$ worth of material.

[druid91]

LoL is just as bad, it irritates me that some people would rather bash lesser skilled players because they're....lesser skilled. It's actually quite counter intuitive, why would you abuse someone on your team mate just because they're not good? Wouldn't it make more sense to help him be better so your team actually has a chance to win?

"Why would we do that? Then we wouldn't have anyone to bash!" ~fictional gamer #12

:smalltongue:

[Bucky]

In multiplayer games with 'levels' that persist across sessions, high-level players are just expected to have an overwhelming advantage against low-level players (regardless of actual relative skill).

[Folytopo]

Yeah, well also we should realize that not every game we play has an ass in it. It is nearly how often we run into them. In lol I could have 5 straight games of nice pubbies. They were polite, they coordinated. When I was doing well I offered lane swaps and they accepted. Losing graciously also happens with pubbies. The problem was that you cannot really get rid of bad players because of how large the community is. No social controls on behavior.

[Sipex]

The Left 4 Dead community is pretty close to this too. I got into it late and get a lot of flak simply for not being able to rush some of the maps or knowing the best spots for attack as an infected or not killing anyone as the tank (sometimes the survivors are just that smart).

I have, however, had a single really good experience and it was playing warcraft 2.

See, I suck at RTS games, just horribly. Usually this results in people raging and insulting me (and usually results in me going to play Halo because I can actually stand the jerks there, says a lot, doesn't it?) but I was played warcraft 2 one time and my opponent was running me over (as usual) and he suddenly realised it and stopped.

We then spent the rest of the game with him teaching me tricks how to play.

I got better but I still sucked.

[Spartacus]

On the subject of LoL, I've actually run into exactly 3 jerks, and one guy who was a little too cocky about winning. DotA, on the other hand, I don't think I ran into 3 who weren't.

I find many games put the burden of knowledge on the player, making you go look stuff up on a wikia article or something instead of telling you in game. I want somewhere in game to tell me exactly what +1 to str does, and whether +3 damage will give me more DPS that +4 str, or vice versa. I do not want to have to alt-tab to google stats when I want to change my equipment/skills.

[Leecros]

On the subject of LoL, I've actually run into exactly 3 jerks, and one guy who was a little too cocky about winning.

Odd since i run into one in almost every game on one team or the other.

[Trekkin]

I can't stand the assumption by other players in an MMO that I'm in it for PvP--especially when the game lends itself particularly well to co-op. "Your build is so horrible that I could kill you in three hits" ad nauseam, all because I'm usually in a given game to help people. Then again, I've noticed this more in open PvP games than anywhere else, where it's arguably more valid.

There's also the whole PvP-or-carebear mentality. I've been attacked, won, beat them so thoroughly they're left unable to attack, and let them live--and then been called weak by my former assailants.

[Otherworld Odd]

I was new to fighting games and started playing SSIV quite a few months ago. My friends thought it was kind of ridiculous that I was having trouble with the "half-circles" and I definitely had trouble putting in all the combos so quickly. x_x.


Evil half-circles.

[dsmiles]

I was new to fighting games and started playing SSIV quite a few months ago. My friends thought it was kind of ridiculous that I was having trouble with the "half-circles" and I definitely had trouble putting in all the combos so quickly. x_x.


Evil half-circles.
Half-circle moves were the bane of my existence for about the first year I played fighting games. Don't feel bad about it, eh?

[BRC]

Game developers coming out with day 1 DLC that costs more then the game itself.

I don't advocate piracy and I hate doing it, but after I spend 60$ on a game, I want the FULL game, not stuff that I have to pay 40-80 dollars extra for 10$ worth of material.
Eh, this depends on what the DLC in question is. I'm probably putting words into your mouth here, but with Portal 2 I didn't mind, since the DLC was just a bunch of overpriced cosmetic stuff that had no impact on gameplay. I think the idea was less "$50, then another $60 for the full game" and more "$50, then 20 different $3 things that have no real impact unless you think a funny hat is a core part of the game play experience".


Sorry.

As for Expectations, I reserve a special place in the part of my brain that Hates for developers who release buggy games, counting on the flood of complaints on the forums to serve as a beta-test. The result is that they rush to put out a sloppy patch to appease the people who are demanding they be able to play a game they paid for on the date they were supposed to be able to play it.

[druid91]

Eh, this depends on what the DLC in question is. I'm probably putting words into your mouth here, but with Portal 2 I didn't mind, since the DLC was just a bunch of overpriced cosmetic stuff that had no impact on gameplay. I think the idea was less "$50, then another $60 for the full game" and more "$50, then 20 different $3 things that have no real impact unless you think a funny hat is a core part of the game play experience".


Sorry.

As for Expectations, I reserve a special place in the part of my brain that Hates for developers who release buggy games, counting on the flood of complaints on the forums to serve as a beta-test. The result is that they rush to put out a sloppy patch to appease the people who are demanding they be able to play a game they paid for on the date they were supposed to be able to play it.

But... Glitchworld is fun!:smalltongue:

[dsmiles]

And speaking of DLC...DLC that's just unlocking more features that are already on the disk. WT* is up with that? :smallfurious:

[BRC]

And speaking of DLC...DLC that's just unlocking more features that are already on the disk. WT* is up with that? :smallfurious:
"Proper" Day 1 DLC, as in stuff that would normally be considered good DLC material but is available from day 1 for an extra cost, is something of a grey area for me. Provided I can have a complete experience without it, I can't really condemn it, because being mad at a business for trying to make money is like being mad at a fish for swimming.

But it is kind of a jerk move. When I see it, I may not be reaching for my torch and pitchfork, but I'll be checking my pockets for a spork and a book of matches.

[MechaKingGhidra]

Here is an (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRlYM9F50EQ) interesting video about how gaming communities get developed. They use DOTA as an example.

That was surprisingly good. I figured I'd learn something *anyway* but didn't expect nearly THAT much! I have bookmarked that into my 'Will Always Be Relevant' folder. :smallsmile:

[Dsurion]

I hate expectations of players in communities (not necessarily even pertaining online games) that dismiss anyone for not reading every single guide to making a character and planning out a "build" from day one of your buying the game.

- I also hate anyone that expects you to "level grind" your way to victory in any level-based game.

- I hate the term "farming" and everything it implies in any game. Especially when developers expect the behavior and force it upon players.

- To keep this from going on, I pretty much despise anyone who turns a game into a repetitive mechanics fetish. To echo my sentiment from an earlier thread a while ago: I just want to play a game for my own enjoyment at my own leisure.

However, on the subject of Left 4 Dead, I have to admit I've only played maybe a dozen or so times, but I haven't noticed the online community to be so bad as most others (any RTS player online, Halo/CoD/other FPS gamers). Granted, I was still treated as a joke for not knowing the game, but pretty much everyone I gamed with was cool enough to show me the things they were talking about, rather than just be ***** about it the whole time.

[iyaerP]

The idea that PC gaming is dead/dieing fills me with rage every time I hear it. Especially when I hear it cited as why this or that title is being developed as console exclusive.



And yeah, if you think that DoTa players are an evil uncaring sociopathic lot, try joining a counterstrike server some time. Same attitude towards noobs/the unskilled, coupled with an even harsher setup that rewards skill and punishes deaths.

[Spartacus]

Ever want to use that cool assault rifle in CS? Better be one of the top players on the server, or you'll lose it after one round of using it.

Although, amusingly, at a LAN event at my school one time, I decided to try out CS and managed to be the top scoring player over the time I played, despite it being my first time. Apparently CS is not popular at my school. SC:BW, on the other hand...

[Zevox]

I was new to fighting games and started playing SSIV quite a few months ago. My friends thought it was kind of ridiculous that I was having trouble with the "half-circles" and I definitely had trouble putting in all the combos so quickly. x_x.


Evil half-circles.
Half circles? Really? I would tend to think those should be easy - it's one smooth motion of the control stick, after all. The fighting game motion I had the most trouble getting used to was the dragon punch. Damn that motion is weird.

Zevox

[MechaKingGhidra]

Not knowing game-specific jargon is also something that annoys me.

When someone answers a question or is holding a conversation in practically nothing BUT shorthand, you start wondering if they're just terrible typists or they are using a foreign language.

Well, I guess in a sense, they ARE.:smallwink:

[The_Admiral]

On the subject of LoL, I've actually run into exactly 3 jerks, and one guy who was a little too cocky about winning. DotA, on the other hand, I don't think I ran into 3 who weren't.

I find many games put the burden of knowledge on the player, making you go look stuff up on a wikia article or something instead of telling you in game. I want somewhere in game to tell me exactly what +1 to str does, and whether +3 damage will give me more DPS that +4 str, or vice versa. I do not want to have to alt-tab to google stats when I want to change my equipment/skills.

Actully they expect you to memorize it I know someone who memorized all the good builds for heroes and the hotkeys to buy the item needed.
I am talking about DoTA

[Spartacus]

After playing for a while, knowing the "best" builds and the hotkeys for the more popular heroes is not, frankly, difficult. But playing for the first time, with no explanation? Difficult.

However, I was actually talking about other games such as, for example, Dragon Age. How much does Strength increase my damage? What proportion of my damage comes from Str/Dex on Daggers? What is the relationship between Spellpower and Magic?

Apart from that last one, where the scientific process can give you a precise answer (although not the ratios for the bonus damage on spells from Spellpower), all require resources that are not contained within the game itself.

Even worse is when the game is bugged so that, say, daggers get no damage from Dex and half the normal damage from Str, gimping them totally as weapons. Again, no way to know unless you look online.

[Starwulf]

I hate expectations of players in communities (not necessarily even pertaining online games) that dismiss anyone for not reading every single guide to making a character and planning out a "build" from day one of your buying the game.

- I also hate anyone that expects you to "level grind" your way to victory in any level-based game.

- I hate the term "farming" and everything it implies in any game. Especially when developers expect the behavior and force it upon players.

- To keep this from going on, I pretty much despise anyone who turns a game into a repetitive mechanics fetish. To echo my sentiment from an earlier thread a while ago: I just want to play a game for my own enjoyment at my own leisure.


I guess it depends on your definition of level grinding, and how little/much you think you should have to do in order to play through and beat a game. I mean, if you can just go straight through a game without ever spending even an hour fighting enemies to get stronger, and manage to beat/win every encounter, that's kind of lame imho. However, I don't believe you should have to spend 20+ hours fighting random enemies in order to progress/beat the game either

Note, I don't think you should, but I love doing it, lol. I'm one of those rare people who ENJOY level grinding, who ENJOY farming. I spent 7 1/2 years playing FFXI(Sept 2003 to Jan 2011), and a large portion of my time was spent farming for gil so I could have top of the line gear for my jobs. I can't count how many times people asked me how I could stand doing the same thing over and over and over again, especially in the mid-levels when not everything was open. They continuously told me I should just level my way to 75(at the time that was the lvl cap) and THEN farm. I adamantly refused, wanting to build a reputation for having top of the line gear the entire way. Made my entrance into end-game a lot easier since I had a great reputation among the top notch groups because I always knew what I was doing and the gear to back it up. But, I'm a rarity, I know this, lots of people can't stand grinding for hours on end.

[shadow_archmagi]

And yeah, if you think that DoTa players are an evil uncaring sociopathic lot, try joining a counterstrike server some time. Same attitude towards noobs/the unskilled, coupled with an even harsher setup that rewards skill and punishes deaths.

Personally, I avoid both of them!

[Thanatos 51-50]

"What do you mean you don't want to use <Overpowered Build X>?"

[Knaight]

However, I was actually talking about other games such as, for example, Dragon Age. How much does Strength increase my damage? What proportion of my damage comes from Str/Dex on Daggers? What is the relationship between Spellpower and Magic?

Honestly, I'd like all data seen, and the equations involved accessible unless they are really, really obvious (such as with Wesnoth).

[Dragoon]

Well, there is the whole, using only the first letter of each word in the game so that I have no clue what they are talking about, such as Dota, for example, especially since that could mean more than one game. :smallbiggrin:

Also, certain games with cutscenes that are not skippable, especially when they have long cutscene right before a boss fight. Sigh.

[thegurullamen]

Here is an (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRlYM9F50EQ) interesting video about how gaming communities get developed. They use DOTA as an example.

That was a good video. Thanks for posting it!


"What do you mean you don't want to use <Overpowered Build X>?"

This one. A lot of the times (in both DotA style games and even in D&D) I want to play a build for fun or built around a less than optimal theme. For LANs or local sessions, this is fine, but online, there's a 65% or higher chance of getting into arguments about why this isn't only bad play, but downright wrong. If not outright evil.

[Spartacus]

Well, there is the whole, using only the first letter of each word in the game so that I have no clue what they are talking about, such as Dota, for example, especially since that could mean more than one game. :smallbiggrin:

I don't think the game is called Defense of the Ancients anymore, to be honest.

[The Rose Dragon]

This one. A lot of the times (in both DotA style games and even in D&D) I want to play a build for fun or built around a less than optimal theme. For LANs or local sessions, this is fine, but online, there's a 65% or higher chance of getting into arguments about why this isn't only bad play, but downright wrong. If not outright evil.

In competitive play (which most online play turns into, even without a competition in place), it is wrong. Most of those people are playing to win, and if you are sacrificing victory to experiment with a suboptimal build, you are doing it by forsaking your allies. If you are not fine with this, do what I do: don't play with people you don't know on either side.

You need to understand: some of these people take their games very seriously. They make money out of it, while a good deal of the rest wish they could. They run 20 miles each day, uphill, in the snow, just so their body can be in top physical shape for gaming. Each hour spent online, playing games is akin to a football player practicing on the field with his team. If you disrupt their SERIOUS BUSINESS for such an ephemeral thing like "fun", you are ruining their good time and possibly their livelihood. For your sake, and for theirs, it would be better if you didn't get involved.

[Yora]

The only thing that ever really bothered me are the advice you get in the RPG-section of this Forum. Whenever you ask a question how to do something in a d20 game, there will always be a crowd of people who take it for granted that every game would be a high power, extreme-optimization game. If a new player asks how to make a good barbarian, he'll mostly get suggestions not to play a barbarian at all, and the other replies are something that takes an obscure race, stacks three templates to it, and lists a 9-Classes Multi-Class combination for a 20th level character, that requires the use of 12 different books.
Just that I believe that almost nobody playes games like this, so the answers are completely useless and only cause new players to become confused and get completely crazy expectations of how the games are supposed to be played.

[Freshmeat]

Although it greatly depends on the community you're in, I really dislike the notion that pointing out any flaws within a certain game automatically makes you a 'scrub' who lacks any skill whatsoever. I'm an obsessively meticulous and competitive person, so I tend to focus a lot on rules and game design, and get the above a lot. This is, of course, extremely prevalent on FPS game forums. It never seems to matter how well-thought out your arguments are or how many statistical evidence you reference to make your point, since the following ridiculous beliefs seem to be held paramount:

- Because some people complain about everything and are wrong, anyone who complains about anything is wrong!

- Designers are absolutely infallible. There's nothing wrong with the game. Anything other than praise for the game is simply the result of you playing bad. If you don't like it, go someplace else.

- Changes to the game are bad. Any changes. If you bring up some previous patches that fixed a lot of stuff in the game, I'm still justified in off-handedly stating that all future patches will only make the game worse.

- When designers do change something, it's only because they are money-grubbing hacks who change the game depending on the whims of the masses. That would be the scrubs. So if everyone says doing X is too strong now, they'll change it. Next month, it'll be Y. Then Z. If the scrubs had it their way, they won't be happy until the game only has three weapons in it: Rock, Rock and Rock!

- Everyone's opinion is always 100% biased, no matter how you present your argument. Since no one can ever be completely unbiased, any attempts to even try are just foolish. Oh, and it goes without saying that all biased opinions are automatically incorrect.


YouFailLogicForever indeed. :smallconfused:


For what it's worth, strategy and RPG forums at least seem to produce more mature, logically-minded communities.

[Winterwind]

For what it's worth, strategy and RPG forums at least seem to produce more mature, logically-minded communities.Going by what I've seen on Blizzard's forums for SC2... not really, no. Every single of your comments applies 100% to these; and I wholeheartedly agree that this is horrible. Or at least, horribly annoying.

[Avilan the Grey]

Going by what I've seen on Blizzard's forums for SC2... not really, no. Every single of your comments applies 100% to these; and I wholeheartedly agree that this is horrible. Or at least, horribly annoying.

I haven't been on Blizzard's forums since Diablo II, but whatever you do, to preserve your sanity, never go to No Mutants Allowed (unofficial Fallout forums) or the official Bioware forums.

[The Rose Dragon]

I haven't been on Blizzard's forums since Diablo II, but whatever you do, to preserve your sanity, never go to No Mutants Allowed (unofficial Fallout forums) or the official Bioware forums.

The official Bioware boards are not that bad, as long as you stay to technical parts of the forums, such as technical advice and character build parts. The moment you step into more general forums, especially about the sequels, you must be prepared to lose your sanity.

Basically, whenever non-mathematical things are involved, they become the quintessential fan dumb. But whenever mathematics are involved, they become the most perfect forum-goers ever.

It's weird, I know.

[Avilan the Grey]

The official Bioware boards are not that bad, as long as you stay to technical parts of the forums, such as technical advice and character build parts. The moment you step into more general forums, especially about the sequels, you must be prepared to lose your sanity.

Basically, whenever non-mathematical things are involved, they become the quintessential fan dumb. But whenever mathematics are involved, they become the most perfect forum-goers ever.

It's weird, I know.

You also have to admire the fact that Bioware devs actually frequent those forums. Despite their customers, basically.

[Thanatos 51-50]

In competitive play (which most online play turns into, even without a competition in place), it is wrong.

In competitive play, people are uncomfortable simply for not having seen your build before, despite how effective or ineffective it may or may not be. They don't know it backwards and forwards and nobody has posted it on the official forums, so it's automatically wrong.

However, I'm speaking even in pure co-operative ventures or even single player games.
Alpha Protocol is actually a good example, here. I, personally, love the game. Various reviews have said that it's an okay game if you're using the right build, and then proceed to post the build they used as the "right" one. (Angry Joe springs to mind, who used a shotgun/assault rifle-centric build with almost no points in stealth. He proceeded to claim that stealth in the game is nearly impossible.)
In browsing the various Let's Plays of games in the Fallout series, I have noticed people turning around and immediately slamming the PC's sub-optimal build before game-play starts, based on nothing but their own playstyles/experiences.

The sheer volume of even generally polite gamers such as GitP communities (Although I will never play LoL again because of ya'all) yelling at you for using sub-optimal or not "How-they-would-do-it" builds is frustrating.
Let me play a Demoman with the targe because I CAN use the grenades effectively in combat and cannot, for the life of me, figure out how to use the stickies in a stand-up fight.
Let me play an attack-speed/Magic damage Twitch, I deal plenty of damage that way and can hold a lane.
Let me play a low INT Courier even though it doesn't really unlock any special dialogue options. I can still get all the skill points I need.
Let me put all my points in stealth and pistols. Really, the game turns out different. I promise.
No guys, really, Sentinel is a fun and viable class. Let me show you by blowing up these Geth without pulling the trigger.
Seriously, I don't WANT to be a Wizard. I WANT to be a fighter who uses her shield as a weapon alongside her sword. (By the same coin, Yes guys, Let me be a Sorcerer because that way I don't have to prepare spells. Trust me, it can be just as viable and batman-ny)

[Teutonic Knight]

Not knowing game-specific jargon is also something that annoys me.

When someone answers a question or is holding a conversation in practically nothing BUT shorthand, you start wondering if they're just terrible typists or they are using a foreign language.

Well, I guess in a sense, they ARE.:smallwink:

This too. On MMORPGs, I saw a lot of "pot" usage. Not about the innuendo, but that it took me a while to figure out they were talking about potions, and not that they didn't know the difference between a squat jar and a thin clear vial.

[Leecros]

In competitive play (which most online play turns into, even without a competition in place), it is wrong.

Which is the biggest problem.

I'll use LoL as an example because it's the first 100% multiplayer game i've played for years....i stopped 5 or so years ago because of pretty much the same thing, but In LoL there are Ranked Games and Normal Games.

I really don't mind people not being happy at someones' build in Ranked Games. For starters it IS competitive, you're playing for a ranking and by the time you can even do ranked games you have to be level 30 so you pretty much already have to have plenty of experience with the game. although still, if someone can make their build work then it should still be fine in theory. I've seen a couple of ridiculous builds work in LoL, of course it's usually more of a testament to your opponents being less skilled. Even then though, people should offer advice and constructive criticism instead of just yelling at him/her.

In normal games, you're not playing for a rank and your personal stats(with the exception of the number of leaves) is rather irrelevant because it's a Team Game. It does not show your personal skill, i've seen people with hundreds more loss's be good and someone with hundreds more wins be terrible. It may be a nice feeling to have more wins than loss's, but if you think about it for 5 seconds it is largely irrelevant. If you're not playing for a rank in a Normal Game and your personal stats tend to reflect the overall skill of your teams than you personally. In Theory there's no competitive reason to get way way worked up over it, but of course as you said most online games turn into competition even when there's no competition to have.

[JediSoth]

You also have to admire the fact that Bioware devs actually frequent those forums. Despite their customers, basically.

One of the Mass Effect devs posts frequently at RPGNet, so you can avoid the official forums and all the shippers and still bend the ear of someone in the know.

[Freylorn]

My personal complaint sort of spans two fairly un-related things: tabletop RPGs and fighting games.

"That build is overpowered! Stop powergaming! Roleplay, don't rollplay!"

"Stop using the same move! That's so cheap! Why do you keep sweeping me!? I don't wanna learn to duck and block!"

The point here is, if it's in the game - as far as I'm concerned, anyway - it's available to use. That's why it's, y'know... in the game. If I'm unallowed to do something (this applies much more for tabletop gaming than for fighters, mind you) please notify me ahead of time. And please, don't be vague.

The definition of "OP" varies wildly from player to player and from DM to DM. One person may not bat an eyelash at a fully tricked out ubercharger, while another may complain that you had the audacity to take Power Attack at all instead of, say, Run. One person may look at a high/low mix-up or a projectile barrage as something to find a counter for and improve as a player as a result, whereas someone else may complain about you pressing the "throw" button. And universally, the onus seems to be not on them for not informing you, but on you for not telepathically knowing in advance.

Drives me nuts, I'll tell ya.

[GloatingSwine]

The fighting game motion I had the most trouble getting used to was the dragon punch. Damn that motion is weird.

Zevox

Make a Z with the stick.

Don't think about the directions, think about the Z.

[dsmiles]

Make a Z with the stick.

Don't think about the directions, think about the Z.

Be the Z. Aaaaand some white text to fill it out.

[Zevox]

Make a Z with the stick.

Don't think about the directions, think about the Z.
Oh, I've gotten relatively used to doing it in the past year, but it's still an extremely strange motion. I can see how it would work with a square-gate arcade stick, but on a controller, where the analog stick is set in a circle, it's completely unnatural and counter-intuitive.

Zevox

[Freylorn]

Oh, I've gotten relatively used to doing it in the past year, but it's still an extremely strange motion. I can see how it would work with a square-gate arcade stick, but on a controller, where the analog stick is set in a circle, it's completely unnatural and counter-intuitive.

Zevox

This is probably just due to me having a lot more time on a pad than a stick, but I find myself having the exact opposite happen. I'm far better at doing a dragon punch on a pad. Generally I just push forward and then do a quarter circle, it'll read as a Z.