Vampiric Dragons and the Dragon type

[Alleran]

Is there any way to get the Dragon type onto a character without any level adjustment or otherwise, and which doesn't involve Dragonwrought Kobolds or Savage Species rituals? (Basically, taking a player character that happens to be human, elf or something along those lines and applying the Dragon type to it.)

The Vampiric Dragon template (Draconomicon) requires that you be a "dragon" of at least "adult" age, so as long as you can get the dragon type on a character of at least adult status, that should satisfy both conditions (other ways of being a "count as dragon" would also be acceptable, as long as they don't take LA or too much ECL to pick up). The Vampiric Dragon template doesn't have the ridiculous LA +8 that the normal vampire template has, so if there's a good way to get it, then it would bypass at least 3 of the vampire LA.

(I never really understood why vampires have a +8 LA in the first place, really.)

[Greenish]

Half-dragon changes your type to Dragon, though that's +3 LA right there. Also, "adult" is a true dragon age category, I think.

And vampires, like so many other monsters, are over-LA'd because you're supposed to play a race that's pretty and good!

[Alleran]

Also, "adult" is a true dragon age category, I think.
Technically, of course, it's also a human, elf and dwarf (amongst others) age category.

[kiryoku]

the races of dragon book has one or two

[AslanCross]

Technically, of course, it's also a human, elf and dwarf (amongst others) age category.

Aye, though by that interpretation ANY adventurer half-dragon can automatically qualify for the template, as all adventurers are considered adults in their own race. It's just like saying any.

Furthermore, the use of the term is not equivocal. Age categories in the context of dragons are a completely different thing. It's a fallacy of equivocation.

[PlzBreakMyCmpAn]

Is there any way to get the Dragon type onto a character without any level adjustment or otherwise, and which doesn't involve Dragonwrought Kobolds or Savage Species rituals?

(I never really understood why vampires have a +8 LA in the first place, really.)Dracotaur ECL 1 savage progression is the most optimal way. Of course you will have only 1 HD at ECL6... So its great for campaigns that aren't going to level past that.

The reason is because WotC expected vampire PCs to have hoards of spawn including about a dominated dozen NPCs and be nearly impossible to vanquish. I'm not joking. If your DM doesn't want to allow that, he should make the LA much lo

[OrganicGolem]

I'm pretty sure vampiric dragon is meant for true dragons, which is why its LA is so low to begin with. In any case, I (as a DM) wouldn't allow any sort of hair brained scheme to pick it up without being a true dragon, then again I'm perfectly fine with true dragon PCs as long as you use the rules out of Draconomicon.

[Alleran]

The reason is because WotC expected vampire PCs to have hoards of spawn including about a dominated dozen NPCs and be nearly impossible to vanquish. I'm not joking. If your DM doesn't want to allow that, he should make the LA much lo
This isn't for a game. It's more a thought experiment, really. The vampiric dragon does have some differences from a regular vampire, too (it gains slightly different stat bonuses, for one).


Aye, though by that interpretation ANY adventurer half-dragon can automatically qualify for the template, as all adventurers are considered adults in their own race.
Naturally. The vampiric dragon template says you have to be a dragon, though, so as long as you can "count as" a dragon it should be valid. I'm just trying to be a bit more clear about what I'd count as a dragon (i.e. the dragon type). You don't have to be a true dragon to take the template - there's at least one smoke drake that has the vampire dragon template that I'm aware of - but having the Dragon type seems like a fair requirement.

[AslanCross]

Yeah, you just need to have the Dragon type, but the "Age category" with regard to dragons is a completely different thing. You might have to run this past your DM.

[Fouredged Sword]

Your solution is POA.

[TroubleBrewing]

... Dragonborn? I'm AFB, but this seems like the obvious choice.

If not, try White Dragonspawn.

[Alleran]

Yeah, you just need to have the Dragon type, but the "Age category" with regard to dragons is a completely different thing. You might have to run this past your DM.
Like I said, this is a thought experiment. There's no DM that needs asking about it.


Your solution is POA.
Dispellable, at which point you'd no longer qualify for the template. What happens then? Are you suddenly defanged and devamped?

[AslanCross]

Hmm, I missed that post. Still, it's a thought experiment based on liberal interpretation of unequivocal terms, kind of how Iron Heart Surge is said to "end" the sun because it is an effect that affects the PC.

I'm sorry, but I really think it would be impossible to get past the "adult age category" restriction unless you're actually a true dragon. Getting the Dragon type is easy, but as far as RAW is concerned, the only dragons that satisfy having an "adult age category" are the dragons that are actually listed as having the Wyrmling to Great Wyrm age category. (and ok, Dragonwrought Kobolds)

[PlzBreakMyCmpAn]

You are right about RAI - it is for true dragons. But as I mentioned before the humanoid vampire template is one of the worst hyper-inflated LA examples ever, so allowing this for non-true dragons would make vampiric LA almost stomach-able.

On to RAW. Humanoids have age categories with adulthood listed (for humans in 3.5 it starts at 15 years). To qualify for vampiric dragon just be an adult humanoid who has taken an acquired LA+1 template thatgives the dragon type, like the one mentioned on pa