Handling Spellbooks [3.5]

[SilverLeaf167]

Just in theory, let's say you have a mid-to-high level Archivist, Wizard or even Archivist/Wizard. You will probably have lots of spells to fit in your spellbook(s), especially if you have scribed additional spells from scrolls. Just how do you find enough space in your spellbooks to store them all?

For example, let's take a level 15 Wizard, assuming that he started with INT 18, has no banned schools and only knows the cantrips in the PHB. Even just the spells automatically gained from his levels take up 152 pages from his spellbook, which is already more than a normal spellbook can hold.

So, what can a Wizard (or Artificer) do to make his spells take less space?

Ways I know of:

Geometer PrC for Wizard
Boccob's Blessed Book
The rather impractical alternative spellbooks from Complete Arcane

[Zaranthan]

Bag of Holding + 100 spellbooks

My wizards usually have one bag just for their library and another to hold their adventuring gear.

[Leewei]

Boccob's Blessed Book combined with lots of castings of secret page gives you 2,000 pages of spells for 12,500gp.

[Undercroft]

I usually just houserule it into beign a magic book and thus able to hold all theirs spells. Except of course when the wizard is a smartass. then she needs multiple books

[gorfnab]

If you go with the Eidetic Spellcaster ACF (Dragon Magazine #357) you will never need a spellbook in the first place.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

A spellbook has 100 pages. A 1st level spell takes 1 page. Scribe the same 1st level spell into your book 100 times. When you learn a spell, instead of scribing it the traditional way, just cast Secret Page to change the text of one of those 1st level spells into that of the one you just learned. Now a spell of any level will only take up a single page of your book.

The standard rates for copying from an NPC's book or library is Spell Level x 50 gp. Go spend 8 hours studying a spell and make the Spellcraft check to learn it, but in-character pretend you failed the check and don't copy it into your book. Blame it on the poor quality of the notes you were given, act upset for your time having been wasted on chicken-scratches, and refuse to pay their fee because you've gained nothing. Go cast Secret Page to put it into your book for free. Repeat this process until you have every spell you want, they'll just think your character is learning-impaired but they'll probably humor him and let him keep coming back to try to learn spells which are obviously beyond his ability to comprehend.

[Aharon]

@Biffonacius
Thank you for giving a coherent explanation of the Secret Page trick. It never made sense to me because some people claimed you could change pages not containing spells into pages containing spells, which none of the rules text supports.

[jedipilot24]

I never really understood why spells take up a number of pages equal to their spell level in spellbooks. I know it's supposed to represent the fact that higher level spells are more complex but, as V lampshaded in the comic, it gets ridiculous with things like the Power Word spells.

[CigarPete]

What is wrong with carrying multiple spellbooks? That's what I always wind up doing. It's not like they are taking up much weight or space in your haversack, so they go into one of the two side pockets.

[Strormer]

I always got multiple spellbooks and tthen one enchanted grimoire with unlimited pages by using the rules for a bag of holding creation and then just fudgeed slightly. Granted, I also really like the Geometer prc so yeah, easy.

[Kerrin]

I usually just houserule it into beign a magic book and thus able to hold all theirs spells.
That's a good idea. I think I'll use it.

I usually like to handwave away minutia like these things, but for some reason I hadn't applied the practice to spellbooks.

Thanks!

[DiBastet]

I usually like to handwave away minutia like these things

If it works for your games, then okay. In my games this would never be minutia, but every different game is a different game.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I never really understood why spells take up a number of pages equal to their spell level in spellbooks. I know it's supposed to represent the fact that higher level spells are more complex but, as V lampshaded in the comic, it gets ridiculous with things like the Power Word spells.

How many syllables is a given Power Word, and how outlandish is its pronunciation? It takes an entire standard action to say it, so it would have to be quite long. You would have to be sure each syllable is pronounced exactly as it should be, put the right amount of emphasis on the right ones, possibly make a funny expression just to get one syllable right, etc. That could take pages and pages of notes just to be sure that you get the pronunciation right so the spell actually works instead of coming out like baby-talk.

[Tr011]

Bag of Holding + 100 spellbooks

My wizards usually have one bag just for their library and another to hold their adventuring gear.
First of all, the Secret-Page-Trick, that Biffoniacus_Furiou described very well, will obviously be perfect for your problem. But maybe your DM doesn't allow it.

The problem is: You won't have the space/strength to carry many spellbooks. Also, writing a spell requires 24 hours (12 hours if your just copying from your own book). If you put your books into Bag of Holdings, anyone can slice your Bag and you lost your spellbooks. This won't be what you want.
I usually just pay for more than 100 pages (Complete Arcane states the additional costs) and since the price is really low for anyone over level 3, you just have a big spellbook and no problem with too less pages. One good idea from another thread was to cast Shrink Item + Permanency so you can put your spellbook into your Alchemist's Tooth (Complete Adventurer). It's more save there than anywhere else.

/edit: I think Geomancer or some other PrC granted the ability to use only one page/spell, but I think that's not really worth much.

[Qwertystop]

How many syllables is a given Power Word, and how outlandish is its pronunciation? It takes an entire standard action to say it, so it would have to be quite long. You would have to be sure each syllable is pronounced exactly as it should be, put the right amount of emphasis on the right ones, possibly make a funny expression just to get one syllable right, etc. That could take pages and pages of notes just to be sure that you get the pronunciation right so the spell actually works instead of coming out like baby-talk.
Good point. Just because it's called Power Word: Blind doesn't mean the word is "blind".


/edit: I think Geomancer or some other PrC granted the ability to use only one page/spell, but I think that's not really worth much.

It's Geometer. I can't remember if it gives +1 caster level at 1st or not, but if it does, there's no reason not to take a level in it as long as you meet the prerequisites. Also, it gives some spells that are normally Cleric-only (some sort of rune-ish traps, can't remember the details) at later levels. It's pretty cool.

[Daftendirekt]

/edit: I think Geomancer or some other PrC granted the ability to use only one page/spell, but I think that's not really worth much.

Geometer. Geomancer is worthless.

[Alefiend]

I've seen the Secret Page trick mentioned so many times. Why does nobody ever point out that if you do this, you're one unlucky Dispel Magic away from losing your entire library? To me, that's an unacceptable risk, not to mention a huge temptation for the GM.

How about something creative, like using really tiny books and wearing Goggles of Minute Seeing to study them? Or just sucking up the minor inconvenience of having multiple tomes and backup copies in exchange for your POWER TO DOMINATE REALITY? :smallannoyed:

[Tr011]

Geometer. Geomancer is worthless.

yy ur right. Also, qualifying as a Geometer is pretty easy, since you just need to be a lvl 6 wizard with these-and-that skills, who didn't trade Scribe Scroll for something more useful.

/edit: If you have the spellbook in your mouth, AoE dispels won't affect it because there's no Line of Effect.
Also, your spellbook is allways one disintegrate (or any damaging spell) away from beeing destroyed. But that's what Wishes are for ("bring me my spellbook back").

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I've seen the Secret Page trick mentioned so many times. Why does nobody ever point out that if you do this, you're one unlucky Dispel Magic away from losing your entire library? To me, that's an unacceptable risk, not to mention a huge temptation for the GM.

Dispel Magic doesn't remove Secret Page unless your book is currently open, and out in the open. An area dispel only hits what items it has line of effect to, a targeted dispel on a creature doesn't dispel any items in that creature's possession. If your book is in a backpack, Dispel Magic doesn't hit it, period. Secret Page targets one specific page, as though that page is a separate item independent of the rest of that book. If your spellbook has a leather cover that closes around all of the pages when it's shut, including covering their edges, then there's no line of effect to any of the pages for a Dispel Magic to affect them even if the book is out in the open.

Furthermore, even if your book gets dispelled/disjoined, all you have to do is cast Secret Page 100 more times to fix it (97 more times, Secret Page itself is copied into the book via the normal methods). All the DM would accomplish is forcing the party into a few weeks of in-game downtime. Besides that, you could keep an extra spellbook full of the same Secret Paged spells available via an Instant Summons so you can fix the dispelled book at your convenience.

[King Atticus]

Go spend 8 hours studying a spell and make the Spellcraft check to learn it, but in-character pretend you failed the check and don't copy it into your book. Blame it on the poor quality of the notes you were given, act upset for your time having been wasted on chicken-scratches, and refuse to pay their fee because you've gained nothing. Go cast Secret Page to put it into your book for free. Repeat this process until you have every spell you want, they'll just think your character is learning-impaired but they'll probably humor him and let him keep coming back to try to learn spells which are obviously beyond his ability to comprehend.

My DM would have me rolling Bluff checks that my little charisma lacking, skill point poor (bluff is cross-class) Wiz would surely fail, then I would be facing the ire of an entire community of pissed off Wizards now thinking I'm out to steal all of their beautiful arcane secrets, who at best ride me out of town on a rail and at worst turn me into nothingness with their might. Behold and fear the power of magic, I'll just go with buying extra books thanks. :smallwink:

[Godskook]

A spellbook has 100 pages. A 1st level spell takes 1 page. Scribe the same 1st level spell into your book 100 times. When you learn a spell, instead of scribing it the traditional way, just cast Secret Page to change the text of one of those 1st level spells into that of the one you just learned. Now a spell of any level will only take up a single page of your book.

The standard rates for copying from an NPC's book or library is Spell Level x 50 gp. Go spend 8 hours studying a spell and make the Spellcraft check to learn it, but in-character pretend you failed the check and don't copy it into your book. Blame it on the poor quality of the notes you were given, act upset for your time having been wasted on chicken-scratches, and refuse to pay their fee because you've gained nothing. Go cast Secret Page to put it into your book for free. Repeat this process until you have every spell you want, they'll just think your character is learning-impaired but they'll probably humor him and let him keep coming back to try to learn spells which are obviously beyond his ability to comprehend.

This 'trick' abuses some things that aren't explicitly RAW. Below, I outline a few of the RAI debatable portions:

1.Nowhere in the spell's description does it say that the text produced is usable for preparing a wizard's spells.

2.Assuming you can prepare usable spell writings this way, the text does not, in anyway, say you can circumvent any part of the process, meaning that both ink and a # of pages may still be required.

[Cieyrin]

My DM would have me rolling Bluff checks that my little charisma lacking, skill point poor (bluff is cross-class) Wiz would surely fail, then I would be facing the ire of an entire community of pissed off Wizards now thinking I'm out to steal all of their beautiful arcane secrets, who at best ride me out of town on a rail and at worst turn me into nothingness with their might. Behold and fear the power of magic, I'll just go with buying extra books thanks. :smallwink:

Huh? Where's your Int bonus in all of this? Yeah, 2+Int sucks as a base but you should be hauling in the skill points from your main stat, plus the likelihood you'll be human for the extra skill point. As for Bluff, Social Proficiency Enchanters get it as a class skill, though losing out on your bonus feats kinda bites. On the other hand, drag your party bard/sorcerer/beguiler/rogue with you as a 'fellow' wizard who can cover both of your social graces. Alternatively, Charm Person! :smallbiggrin:

[King Atticus]

Huh? Where's your Int bonus in all of this? Yeah, 2+Int sucks as a base but you should be hauling in the skill points from your main stat, plus the likelihood you'll be human for the extra skill point. As for Bluff, Social Proficiency Enchanters get it as a class skill, though losing out on your bonus feats kinda bites. On the other hand, drag your party bard/sorcerer/beguiler/rogue with you as a 'fellow' wizard who can cover both of your social graces. Alternatively, Charm Person! :smallbiggrin:

Yeah, Int helps out but if you're trying to qualify for most of the casting PrC's I've gone into you've got plenty of in-class skills that need to be pumped up to account for the majority of those. Also in most of the campaigns I've played in, the Wizards that are willing to rent out there spell books to you are either part of an organization that specializes in this field and are set up to avoid duplicity or are older Wizards who are of a sufficiently high level that they'll either be able to beat your save (if you're mid to low level yourself) or take precautions to prevent other magical shenanigans. It makes it tough and pretty much by the book.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

This 'trick' abuses some things that aren't explicitly RAW. Below, I outline a few of the RAI debatable portions:

1.Nowhere in the spell's description does it say that the text produced is usable for preparing a wizard's spells.

2.Assuming you can prepare usable spell writings this way, the text does not, in anyway, say you can circumvent any part of the process, meaning that both ink and a # of pages may still be required.

If you're going for a RAI argument, take a look at the Blessed Book (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#blessedBook):
1. Every spell you put into it takes only a single page, regardless of its level.
2. The only spell required to create that item is Secret Page.

Thus, this is an intended effect of the Secret Page spell. End of RAI debate.



As for having to make Bluff checks, those other wizards you're trying to bluff probably have an equally abysmal Sense Motive skill. Plus you can play it up and make them think that spells of that level actually are beyond your capability, but that you want to learn them anyway because you foolishly believe it will give you some sort of immediate power increase. In that case you would probably get one of the situational modifiers that imposes a -5 penalty or higher to their Sense Motive check.

Another way would be to create a spell sharing club, in which members copy spells onto pages separate from their books and trade them around. The local guilds who sell spells would probably get mad about all their potential customers getting the same thing for free, and may get the local government involved similar to modern file-sharing laws, especially if that guild that sells spells pays taxes on their business.

[Strormer]

It's Geometer. I can't remember if it gives +1 caster level at 1st or not, but if it does, there's no reason not to take a level in it as long as you meet the prerequisites. Also, it gives some spells that are normally Cleric-only (some sort of rune-ish traps, can't remember the details) at later levels. It's pretty cool.

The Geometer grants access to spellglyphs in addition to the spell recording thing. Spellglyphs are kinda like cheap scrolls that replace the material components for your spells. Not incredibly useful, but I once had a DM that was stingy about getting certain expensive spell components. If I wanted to cast animate dead for example, I'd better actually have the gems, not just the gp, in my inventory. For that reason, among other fluff reasons, the Geometer became one of my PrC's of choice for Wizards.
When he hit epic, my Wiz was Wizard 6/Geometer 2/Cleric of Boccob 3/Mystic Theurge 8/Archmage 1 and kept a magical Grimoire that was invulnerable to damage, held unlimited pages (all Geometer style), that cursed anyone who tried to use it without my authorization. His whole concept was a wizard obessed with being able to cast any spell ever devised. Eventually he was going to take Druid levels just for the spells...

[Godskook]

If you're going for a RAI argument, take a look at the Blessed Book (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#blessedBook):
1. Every spell you put into it takes only a single page, regardless of its level.
2. The only spell required to create that item is Secret Page.

Thus, this is an intended effect of the Secret Page spell. End of RAI debate.

The powers of a magic item neither explicitly or implicitly indicate the functions of their prerequisite spells.

That'd be like arguing that Animate Objects (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#serpentineOwl) gives you telepathic animals, rather than constructs, True Seeing (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#robeofEyes) gives you a +10 on search and spot checks, and Clone (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#mirrorofOpposition) can give you temporary dopplegangers that always attack their originals(and have items!).

No, bad logic is bad.

[Calanon]

I never really understood why spells take up a number of pages equal to their spell level in spellbooks. I know it's supposed to represent the fact that higher level spells are more complex but, as V lampshaded in the comic, it gets ridiculous with things like the Power Word spells.

Those spell needs some space though and i always give my spells space just so they can adjust themselves to there new home... :smallwink:

Sarcasm aside: My Wizards always buy the following:

1. 10 blank spellbooks (They cost 15gp each so 150gp thats like nothing)
2. a Bag of holding (So i can carry it all I usually just make it if i have to but if buying it or the DM is giving me one for free that i accept it gladly)
3. I don't buy a spell component pouch (Eschew Materials is actually useful)

The spell books usually last me until about lvl 18 (lvl 16 if I'm specializing) than i just buy 10 more books (I'm confident we killed a Dragon by now :smallbiggrin:) and make a bag of holding. so the space issue has never really come up for me >_> (Except that one time my DM blew up my favorite spellbook while we were in a Lich's Library. I used scholar's touch stole all the books and learned how to become a Lich... Nobody at the table has ever blown up my book again xD)

[2xMachina]

Even if you didn't want to scam them of the copy fee, you could use the Secret Page trick right?

You don't have to tell them your trick. They're paid, else, none of their business.

[King Atticus]

Even if you didn't want to scam them of the copy fee, you could use the Secret Page trick right?

You don't have to tell them your trick. They're paid, else, none of their business.

That...is a very good point. :smallwink:

[Keld Denar]

1. Every spell you put into it takes only a single page, regardless of its level.

Funny the link you provided takes me to the SRD, where it says:

Blessed Book
This well-made tome is always of small size, typically no more than 12 inches tall, 8 inches wide, and 1 inch thick. All such books are durable, waterproof, bound with iron overlaid with silver, and locked.

A wizard can fill the 1,000 pages of a blessed book with spells without paying the 100 gp per page material cost. This book is never found as randomly generated treasure with spells already inscribed in it.

Moderate transmutation; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, secret page; Price 12,500 gp; Weight 1 lb.
Nowhere in there do I see "spells take 1 page only". I see 1000 pages. I see not paying 100gp per page. I don't see "fill the book with 1000 spells", just 1000 pages to fill with spells. A 5th level spell written into a BBB still takes 5 pages in the BBB, it just doesn't cost you 500g to write it in there (that 500g is part of the magic of the book).

[Cieyrin]

Funny the link you provided takes me to the SRD, where it says:

Nowhere in there do I see "spells take 1 page only". I see 1000 pages. I see not paying 100gp per page. I don't see "fill the book with 1000 spells", just 1000 pages to fill with spells. A 5th level spell written into a BBB still takes 5 pages in the BBB, it just doesn't cost you 500g to write it in there (that 500g is part of the magic of the book).

Now, if you're a Geometer with a Blessed Book... :smallwink:

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Funny the link you provided takes me to the SRD, where it says:

Nowhere in there do I see "spells take 1 page only". I see 1000 pages. I see not paying 100gp per page. I don't see "fill the book with 1000 spells", just 1000 pages to fill with spells. A 5th level spell written into a BBB still takes 5 pages in the BBB, it just doesn't cost you 500g to write it in there (that 500g is part of the magic of the book).

Yeah I sort of noticed that when I was going to make another reply, though I could have swore there was an item that did the one-page-per-spell trick that took Secret Page to craft.

Regardless, "Secret page alters the contents of a page so that they appear to be something entirely different. The text of a spell can be changed to show even another spell." That doesn't exclude being able to prepare the spell that you change the text into. If a spell is in your spellbook, and you're the one who put that spell into the book, then when you study your spellbook and prepare your spells you're able to prepare that one with no additional effort. RAI is only relevant if someone's specific DM disagrees with that use of the spell, otherwise there's nothing prohibiting this trick.

[Keld Denar]

Unless there is something spooky and magical about the text that is the reason you need expensive ink that makes the text special and magical. I mean, just transcribing a spell with Costco brand 3gp/vial ink gives you text that LOOKS like the spell, but you can't prep the spell from it. Similarly, if the spell printed with spooky ink is Magic Missile, making it LOOK like Wish doesn't mean that you can actually prepare Wish from it because it doesn't have the requisite amount of spookiness in it.

Or something.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I should dig out some of my old college notes, especially when I'd get toward the last few pages of a notebook. There's seriously four or five plus pages worth of notes crammed onto one side of one piece of paper. Writing smaller, putting the lines closer together, shorthand, writing in the margins, etc. can all contribute to fitting several pages worth of words into one page. A spellbook isn't filled with sentences and paragraphs like a storybook, it's a notebook that the wizard uses to remind himself of how to cast each spell.

As a wizard levels up he doesn't have to spend the 100 gp per page or 24 hours for each new spell he adds for free for that level. For the entire previous level he's been experimenting and researching and writing notes on those pages already, so by the time he gains that level he's made a breakthrough and those pages of notes (much of which is likely crossed out or unrelated) allow him to prepare that spell. Chances are, a given wizard's spellbook has some kind of note or scribble on nearly every page already due to this research process, so not all of a given page is even devoted to the current spell. When using Secret Page, it removes all of the scribbles and unrelated notes and refines the text required to prepare that specific spell, thus that's the only thing that appears on one such page. To most wizards a spellbook full of single-page Secret Page spells would have a very unnatural look about it. Regardless, purchasing magical inks to scribe a spell versus casting a magical spell to put the proper text into the book is indistinguishable IMO.

[Keld Denar]

Listen, we can conjecture back and forth, but the truth is that there are very few rules here to really draw any kind of definite conclusion as to whether or not it is supported by RAW. That said, it is a rather abusive tactic that basically thumbs your nose at the DM, and even if it WAS fully supported by RAW (which hasn't been proven), it probably wouldn't be allowed anyway.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

It thumbs your nose at the arbitrary cost of scribing spells, and it's not like your character is saving much gold by doing so. You could get Collegiate Wizard and/or the Elf Generalist substitution level and/or Illusion Mastery (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#illusionistVariants) if you're trying to save gold on scribing spells. Being able to take one book with 100 spells with you on an adventure, and switching which spells that book contains between adventures, versus dragging around what looks like a high schooler's backpack full of homework for only half as many spells, is what this trick is really about. The greatest benefit of the Secret Page trick is convenience, and it's really only useful until you can afford a Blessed Book anyway.

[Keld Denar]

Ah, but spending feats to gain benefits is normal. Spending money to get benefits is normal. Spending spell slots during downtime (no cost to you) to gain benefits is getting something for nothing...not normal.

If the cost of getting additional spells other than the ones normally allotted to you by leveling and other features is intended to be a balancing factor, then you ARE indeed thumbing your nose at balance, and the DM. As a DM, I would not allow this. The fighter has to make a hard choice between upgrading his weapon and upgrading his other gear. Why shouldn't a wizard have to make a hard choice about expanding his spellbook vs upgrading his other gear? Afterall, gold is a more-or-less finite resource (assuming no infinite money shananananananananananigans, most of which are quashed by DM fiat anyway), and if you have to spend some of that gold on a BBB to carry all the spells you want with you, then thats 12,500g you aren't spending on metamagic rods, scrolls, cloaks, headbands, and other magical widgets.

[Infernalbargain]

If I'm high level, I'll just use limited wish a few times to get some spells that I need since spellbooks are nonmagical gear.

[Tr011]

The wizard has a spellbook to loose and not much spell/day.
The sorcerer has more spells/day but not the versatility of a wizard.
So if the wizard sin't paying much money in his spellbook to get extra spells, he's just a sorcerer with less spells/day.

Where's the option in this? If you pick wizard, you don't want the default 4 spells/spell level, you want to learn more. If that is done by "only" 50gp/spell level + 8 hours of studying the spell, that doesn't sound so OP.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

The wizard has a spellbook to loose and not much spell/day.
The sorcerer has more spells/day but not the versatility of a wizard.
So if the wizard sin't paying much money in his spellbook to get extra spells, he's just a sorcerer with less spells/day.

Where's the option in this? If you pick wizard, you don't want the default 4 spells/spell level, you want to learn more. If that is done by "only" 50gp/spell level + 8 hours of studying the spell, that doesn't sound so OP.Even with the base level of spells, the wizard is going to know either 2 of his highest level spells to 0 of the sorcerers', or 4 of his highest level spells to 1 of the sorcerers'. Throw in collegiate wizard and it's no longer a concern.

[gorfnab]

Eidetic Spellcaster + Elf Generalist Wizard + Domain Wizard + Collegiate Wizard = all the spells I need with no spellbook issues.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Eidetic is great; the only drawback is a lack of Abrupt Jaunt or 2X familiar bonus from Elf Generalist. Also I find Dragon material harder to pass by the GM; sometimes they even say "Why not just play a Psion?" and I have a hard time not hugging them for suggesting instead of banning psionics.

[Cieyrin]

Eidetic is great; the only drawback is a lack of Abrupt Jaunt or 2X familiar bonus from Elf Generalist. Also I find Dragon material harder to pass by the GM; sometimes they even say "Why not just play a Psion?" and I have a hard time not hugging them for suggesting instead of banning psionics.

Obtain Familiar will let you get your double bonus Hummingbird at least. :smalltongue:

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Obtain Familiar will let you get your double bonus Hummingbird at least. :smalltongue:Or moth/butterfly for incantatrix. Still, that's a feat. In some campaigns, quite worth it. In others, eh.

[Kerrin]

If it works for your games, then okay. In my games this would never be minutia, but every different game is a different game.
Yupperdoodles! Your milage - and preferences - may vary.

I guess I don't really see the issue with having to buy a second, third, or fourth spell book as a character levels up. After a certain point, they're relatively not all that expensive. Toss 'em in yer Handy Haversack (or whatever) and be jaunting down the road to adventure none the more encumbered.

[Strormer]

Eidetic Spellcaster + Elf Generalist Wizard + Domain Wizard + Collegiate Wizard = all the spells I need with no spellbook issues.

Eidetic + Collegiate alone is enough for most of us... just... oh, by the power of grayskull...

[Alefiend]

Dispel Magic doesn't remove Secret Page unless your book is currently open, and out in the open. An area dispel only hits what items it has line of effect to, a targeted dispel on a creature doesn't dispel any items in that creature's possession. If your book is in a backpack, Dispel Magic doesn't hit it, period. Secret Page targets one specific page, as though that page is a separate item independent of the rest of that book. If your spellbook has a leather cover that closes around all of the pages when it's shut, including covering their edges, then there's no line of effect to any of the pages for a Dispel Magic to affect them even if the book is out in the open.

I just want to go on record that I find this maddening and counter-intuitive, RAW or not. I'm not arguing with you, Biff, just the way the rule works. Rain doesn't have line of effect to anything in your backpack either, but if you leave it out in a storm the contents will get soaked.

It probably comes as no surprise that I'm in the "no secret page cheese" camp too. :smalltongue:

[2xMachina]

Well, waterproof bags will keep the spellbook inside from soaking in the storm.

[Cieyrin]

Well, waterproof bags will keep the spellbook inside from soaking in the storm.

There's also waterproof books in Planar Handbook, as well as possibly It's Wet Outside. Complete Arcane's Spellbook building rules have rules for materials that don't really give two ****s about water exposure, either, so not that big a deal.

[Azraile]

Take Eidetic Spellcaster

Then pay like 100g a day just for the shear privilege of being aloud to pursue there books. Leave your stuff with your friends or with them... let yourself be searched even!.... do what ever you need to kiss up to them and act like a pathetic apprentice that has truble even casting cantrapts.

Spend all the time you need memorizing every single spell they have, and laugh as they think you got nothing but exspirance and some spellcraft skill out of it.

[Azraile]

Also as far as little room for spells...... use your body!

tatto's you can fit 82 pages of spells on your body (if you don't tatto your unmenchables) 74 if you leave your head and scalp out too..... 48 that you will be able to read with out mirrors, help from your familar, or scrying spells....

all that dubbles with hidden wrighting....

164, 148, and 96....

Use enlarge person before tattooing the spells onto yourself and you dubble it again..... for a final total:

324 pages of spells on your body (excluding privates)
296 pages of spells on your boy (also excluding your head)
and
192 pages of spells you can read with only decipher script check (for small print)

Not bad considering this is my spells known (though can only cast up to lvl5)


LEVEL 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Total Space
Known: 36 17 11 13 11 8 2 3 2 1 244 pages

level 10 and 188 pages for every spell I can use right now..... so wouldn't even need help reading them lol