Quick Optimization Question

[ajkkjjk52]

Maximum number of attacks per round with a ranged weapon.
Level 15, all 3.5 and 3.P allowed.

Go!

[pilvento]

Maximum number of attacks per round with a ranged weapon.
Level 15, all 3.5 and 3.P allowed.

Go!

attacks is all you want?

3 attacks from bab + 1 from rapid shot + 2 from twf + 1 from haste effect

= 7 attacks * 2 palm shot (CW) = 14 attacks ???

[Hyfigh]

Splitting quality to double that...

[Tvtyrant]

Add in 1 monk level for a flurry and a whirling frenzy barbarian for another 1, throw shurikens with the splitting quality and you get 18 thrown objects a round.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Probably not the best, but here's a good start:
Elf Cleric 6/ Ruathar 3/ Seeker of the Misty Isle 1/ Contemplative 5, Elf and Spell domains, Otherworldly, Extend, Persist, DMM: Persist, Rapid Shot

Draconic Polymorph into an Arrow Demon (MM3)
DMM: Persist Divine Might
Haste or a Speed bow, two bows total

Three attacks via BAB, one attack from Haste, one attack from Rapid Shot = 5 shots, Arrow Demon gains an equal number of shots on the second bow via Symmetrical Archery. Ten attacks total. Get the Splitting enchantment on both bows and each fires two arrows per shot, but that's not additional attacks.

If you want to go the cheese route, use Greater TWF with Aptitude Hand Crossbows and get Roundabout Kick and Lightning Maces for possibly infinite attacks/round.

[pilvento]

Add in 1 monk level for a flurry and a whirling frenzy barbarian for another 1, throw shurikens with the splitting quality and you get 18 thrown objects a round.

True, recalculating...

3bab+2twf+1rapid+1haste+1barbarian+1flurry= 9 x 2 palm shot = 18 x2 spliting = 36 shurikens.

Dam im bored in this office...

[Greenish]

Splitting quality to double that...I don't think you can add splitting on thrown weapons.

But let's say a splitting crossbows, 11+ bab, targeteer's arrow swarm, rapid shot, whirling frenzy, haste and twf light/hand crossbows (rapid reloaded, of course) for 20 attacks/round (at abysmal to-hit and damage, though).

[Tvtyrant]

I don't think you can add splitting on thrown weapons.

But let's say a splitting crossbows, 11+ bab, targeteer's arrow swarm, rapid shot, whirling frenzy, haste and twf light/hand crossbows (rapid reloaded, of course) for 20 attacks/round (at abysmal to-hit and damage, though).

If you can add it to ammunition you can add it to shurikens.

[Greenish]

If you can add it to ammunition you can add it to shurikens.Well, take this as you wish:
Any splitting weapon, or an arrow or bolt enchanted with the splitting ability…:smallamused:

[Edit]: No, wait: "must be a bow, crossbow, arrow, or bolt". No splitting shurikens.

[jvluso]

Light crossbows can be dual wielded and the armbow takes away the problem of reloading. 3 (BAB) + 3 (TWF feats) + 1 (rapid shot) + 1 (haste) + 1 (barbarian) = 9 shots, which with splitting means 18 attacks.

[Greenish]

Light crossbows can be dual wielded and the armbow takes away the problem of reloading. 3 (BAB) + 3 (TWF feats) + 1 (rapid shot) + 1 (haste) + 1 (barbarian) = 9 shots, which with splitting means 18 attacks.Armbows are expensive, though, but at least targeteer gets the EWP for free. Also, +1 attack with arrow swarm.

[Edit]: two splitting armbows would cost 124 000 gp, so within WBL still.

[Rhaegar14]

A Master Thrower (Complete Warrior) build I've been playing with in my head:

Start with Two-Weapon Fighting feats and you have six weapons thrown, then toss in Palm Throw to bump it up to twelve, then finally get the Two With One Blow trick so that you can try to hit two guys with one attack. There's 24 before you're even into magic items and such (where my expertise is quite admittedly smaller). However, since you wouldn't get your Str bonus to damage, you'd need flaming/frost/electric/what-have-you projectiles to actually do any damage with all of those.

[mootoall]

At later levels, Warblade with Time Stands Still gets ridiculous attacks (I think the highest I've seen, with lances), and before that I think there are some good Iron Heart and Tiger Claw maneuvers that grant extra attacks.

[Cog]

Let's fit some UMD into those builds too. Use a wand of Cloud of Knives, for an additional free-action attack per round. (Knives are ranged weapons, right? :smalltongue:)

Take Xeph as the race for the Xeph Celerity feat, activates as a swift action to grant an extra attack for one round.

[Akal Saris]

Another way of beating this challenge:
Human Conjurer 5/Incantatrix 10

Weapon of choice: Scorching Ray
Metamagic of choice: Quicken, Twin, Repeat, Ocular, with -1 to metamagic from Incantatrix, -1 to Scorching Ray from Arcane Thesis, and -1 to Twin and Quicken from Easy Metamagic for each (Total: +4 to spell level, tops)

R1:
Swift: Quickened, Twinned, Repeating Scorching Ray (6 attacks)
Full round: Release 2 spells with Ocular Spell: a Twinned, Repeating, Ocular Scorching Ray and a second Twinned, Repeating, Ocular Scorching Ray (12 rays)
R2:
Free: The repeats of the two above spells (18 rays)
Swift: Quickened, Twinned, Scorching Ray (6 attacks)
Full round: Release a pair of Twinned, Ocular Scorching Rays for another 12 ray attacks
Total ranged attacks in 1 round: 36

Edit: You could also pull off 90 ranged attacks per round with most of the same metamagics using telekinesis at CL 15.

[Wings of Peace]

If you want to go the cheese route, use Greater TWF with Aptitude Hand Crossbows and get Roundabout Kick and Lightning Maces for possibly infinite attacks/round.

This. A Warblade 6/Disciple of Dispatar 8 with Dual Aptitude Splitting hand Crossbows works well as mentioned.

[Cog]

(Magic)
Those are ranged attacks, yes, but I'm not seeing much in the way of a "ranged weapon" as per the OP. :smallcool:

[myancey]

Or use a composite strength longbow +3 w/ Efficient Pull. Just have at least a +1 to strength.
Take rapid shot. At 14th level take Dead Eye to add dex to damage.
Mainly, you can wreck with a basic fighter build--designing him similar to a ranger..but ignoring the pathetic mass of crap known as the "ranger" class.
For weapon enhancements use Collision from MIC.

[Greenish]

Or use a composite strength longbow +3 w/ Efficient Pull. Just have at least a +1 to strength.
Take rapid shot. At 14th level take Dead Eye to add dex to damage.Dead Eye only works within 30', I believe, and besides was errata'ed to require 1 BAB, not 14.

Of course, that's all off-topic.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Come to think of it, I think this is actually a question of how many Persistent Cloud of Knives spells can you have active?

Grey Elf Focused Conjurer 5/ Incantatrix 10, Iron Will via the Otyugh Hole, Extend (1), Fell Drain (3), Persist (Icx 1), Twin (Icx 4), Easy Metamagic: Persistent (Icx 7), Easy Metamagic: Twin (Icx 10), Arcane Thesis: Cloud of Knives (12), Metamagic School Focus x3 (6, 9, 15)
Keep in mind that Easy Metamagic does have the [metamagic] tag, so it counts toward Arcane Thesis!

Assuming Int 18 base, +2 race, +3 levels, +3 age, +6 enhancement for 32, you'll get the following spells/day: 6/9/9/9/8/8/7/5/4
That's 14 daily uses of Metamagic Effect, in addition to normal uses of metamagic.

Spell slot usage is as follows:
8th throught 4th level spell slots: Persistent (+4) Fell Drain (+1) Twinned (+2) Cloud of Knives (2nd) (-5 Thesis)
3rd: Persistent (+4) Fell Drain (+1) Twinned (+2) Cloud of Knives (2nd) (-5 Thesis) (-1 Metamagic School Focus)
2nd: Twinned (+2) Fell Drain (+1) Cloud of Knives (2nd) (-3 Thesis) (Metamagic Effect: Persistent)
1st, 0th: irrelevant

That's 50 Persistent Fell Drain Twinned Cloud of Knives spells, for 100 attacks every round for free, in addition to whatever other actions he takes. Get max ranks in Craft: Alchemy and carry a lot of Tanglefoot Bags, and use those 1st level spell slots for Mage Armor and Grease.

100 Daggers +26 ranged (30 ft. max), 1d6+5 plus one negative level, 19-20/x2, overcomes DR/Magic.

[jvluso]

Come to think of it, I think this is actually a question of how many Persistent Cloud of Knives spells can you have active?


Switching to human and adding invisible spell will mean that he can use one spell lower for each of those at the cost of a third and seventh level spell slot, and one point of attack. This would mean 57 Invisible Persistent Fell Drain Twinned Cloud of Knives spells, for 114 attacks every round for free.

Rings of Wizardry III and IV brings it up to 73 spells for a total of 146 attacks.

[Cog]

Cloud of Knives is Range: Personal. It falls under the multiple magical effects rules, and so I'm pretty sure you only get the benefit of the most recent one.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Switching to human and adding invisible spell will mean that he can use one spell lower for each of those at the cost of a third and seventh level spell slot, and one point of attack. This would mean 57 Invisible Persistent Fell Drain Twinned Cloud of Knives spells, for 114 attacks every round for free.

Rings of Wizardry III and IV brings it up to 73 spells for a total of 146 attacks.

Arcane Thesis can't lower it below 2nd level (post-errata) so those 1st level spell slots can't hold Cloud of Knives. I could probably get Spontaneous Divination and then Versatile Spellcaster to use those 1st level slots for four more Cloud of Knives.

A Ring of Wizardry II would also be useful, considering he still has five more uses of Metamagic Effect and fourteen Cooperative Metamagic. Do note however that Focused Specialist reduces your general spell slots, so that's fewer that are doubled by the rings since they don't count slots gained via specialization. Each ring would only get +3 spell slots, so Pearls of Power would actually be more economical. I haven't figured up WBL expenditure and I doubt I'll put the effort into it.

[Wings of Peace]

Arcane Thesis can't lower it below 2nd level (post-errata) so those 1st level spell slots can't hold Cloud of Knives. I could probably get Spontaneous Divination and then Versatile Spellcaster to use those 1st level slots for four more Cloud of Knives.

A Ring of Wizardry II would also be useful, considering he still has five more uses of Metamagic Effect and fourteen Cooperative Metamagic. Do note however that Focused Specialist reduces your general spell slots, so that's fewer that are doubled by the rings since they don't count slots gained via specialization. Each ring would only get +3 spell slots, so Pearls of Power would actually be more economical. I haven't figured up WBL expenditure and I doubt I'll put the effort into it.

Needs more taint.

[Zaq]

Critspawning shenanigans with Aptitude bows/crossbows and Lightning Maces ought to do it.

What? He never said "no infinite or semi-infinite loops."

[jvluso]

Needs more taint.

The human with invisible spell gets the following spells per day: 6/9/9/8/8/8/7/4/4

You can add extend to the persist so it will have a duration of 48 hrs. This allows you to have two of those running at any given time.

36 k is spent on the headband

The cantrips and 1st level spells don't matter

You can make 13 (metamagic effect) + 9 (metamagic school focus) + 2 (instant metamagic) =24 second level spells into it, so you need 15 pearls of power II, for a cost of 60 k. Eleven of those are extended (the ones from metamagic effech and instant metamagic)

You spend all 8 of your third level spells on it, none of which are extended.

All of your fourth through eighth level spells are spent on the extended version, so 31 more, and you have enough money left for 6 pearls of power VI.

In all you have 61 extended versions running and 21 non-extended versions for a total of 143 uses of it, or 286 Daggers +25 ranged (30 ft. max), 1d6+5 plus one negative level, 19-20/x2, overcomes DR/Magic.


Critspawning shenanigans with Aptitude bows/crossbows and Lightning Maces ought to do it.

What? He never said "no infinite or semi-infinite loops."

The problem with crossbows is ammunition. If you use normal ammunition, than to keep up with the cloud of knives, each round of combat weighs 30 lbs and costs 30 gp. This adds up fast. With armbows you will have no way of stopping the infinite loop until you run out of HP and are knocked unconscious.

[Rhaegar14]

Take rapid shot. At 14th level take Dead Eye to add dex to damage.

So I'm gonna go off topic real quick here. What book is this feat in? One of my players is playing an archer ranger with a +0 Str bonus, and he's getting routinely outshined because he doesn't do any damage. I feel like I should definitely recommend it to him.

[Greenish]

So I'm gonna go off topic real quick here. What book is this feat in?Dragon Compendium. The errata reduced it's requirements from 14 BAB to 1 BAB, but it's still limited to point-blank range.

[Wings of Peace]

The human with invisible spell gets the following spells per day: 6/9/9/8/8/8/7/4/4

You can add extend to the persist so it will have a duration of 48 hrs. This allows you to have two of those running at any given time.

36 k is spent on the headband

The cantrips and 1st level spells don't matter

You can make 13 (metamagic effect) + 9 (metamagic school focus) + 2 (instant metamagic) =24 second level spells into it, so you need 15 pearls of power II, for a cost of 60 k. Eleven of those are extended (the ones from metamagic effech and instant metamagic)

You spend all 8 of your third level spells on it, none of which are extended.

All of your fourth through eighth level spells are spent on the extended version, so 31 more, and you have enough money left for 6 pearls of power VI.

In all you have 61 extended versions running and 21 non-extended versions for a total of 143 uses of it, or 286 Daggers +25 ranged (30 ft. max), 1d6+5 plus one negative level, 19-20/x2, overcomes DR/Magic.


Taint will still give you more. :P Also, versatile spellcaster should let you put those level 1 slots to use as 2nd levels slots.

[WinWin]

Rate of fire. Assume 4 from BAB and rapid shot.

splitting bow property x 2 = 8

Arrowsplit on first shot = 2-5 or + 1d4 (4-10 with splitting)

Maximise & empower Arrowsplit = 5-7 (10-14 with splitting)

so 8 (-1 + 10 (minumim)) =17

Belt of Battle =extra full round action. +8

Haste. +1 attack on full attack. +2

Only 27.

With a contingent metamagic'ed Arrowsplit (triggered when arrow is drawn), you would be looking at around 180-252 shots. I'm sure that can be improved on.

[Darth Stabber]

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