Can just 8 feats, mount, and equipment make an ubercharger?

[sengmeng]

Basically, could someone build an ubercharger with a single-class fighter, and only spend 8 of his feats doing it?

[Lateral]

How many do you need? Power Attack, Imp. Bull Rush, Shock Trooper, Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack, Spirited Charge- that's seven feats, so you have one extra. Get a really good mount (or take Wild Cohort and have a better one for free), buy good equipment, and wield a lance in two hands.

[Greenish]

Depends on your definition of "ubercharger".

[Hirax]

X=Weapon damage (dice + enhancement bonus)
Y*1.5=Strength damage with 2-hander.
Z=Amount of BAB put into power attack

Power attack only:
X+Y*1.5+Z*2
+valorous weapon:
(X+Y*1.5+Z*2)2
+leap attack
(X+Y*1.5+Z*4)2
+battle jump
(X+Y*1.5+Z*4)3
+headlong rush (requires you to be an orc or half-orc)
(X+Y*1.5+Z*4)4
+power lunge
(X+Y*2+Z*4)4

Bar1/Warblade1/fighter4/
Flaw: Battle jump
Flaw: Imp. bull rush
1: Extra rage (probably applicable to whirling frenzy variant too)
3: Power lunge (BAB 3 needed)
F1 (3rd level): Power attack
F2 (4th level): Headlong rush (needs BAB of 4)
F4 (6th level): Shock trooper (needs BAB of 6)
6: Leap attack (Complete Adventurer, cannot be taken as fighter bonus or before 5th level due to 8 jump ranks required)

Either go warblade for 3 more levels to get leaping dragon stance, or take the martial study feat for it at ninth level. This greatly helps you use battle jump.

edit: fighter only version a few posts down, but this version allows you 2 extra attacks per charge, since you can get pounce and whirling frenzy.

[RaginChangeling]

If you're a Centaur you can add leap attack to all the mounted combat shenanigans as well.

[Greenish]

^
^
You can't take Leaping Dragon Stance at level 9 unless you take levels in a martial adept.

Also, the point was to do this as a single-classed fighter.

[Daftendirekt]

How many do you need? Power Attack, Imp. Bull Rush, Shock Trooper, Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack, Spirited Charge- that's seven feats
Uh, that's six feats.

1. Power Attack
2. Improved Bull Rush
3. Shock Trooper
4. Mounted Combat
5. Ride-By Attack
6. Spirited Charge.

:smallconfused:

[Angry Bob]

If you're a Centaur you can add leap attack to all the mounted combat shenanigans as well.

Could you do the same with a Tauric(Savage Species) creature for a more efficient creature?

I'd houserule that you could. You'd just have to estimate its LA.

[Hirax]

^
^
You can't take Leaping Dragon Stance at level 9 unless you take levels in a martial adept.

Also, the point was to do this as a single-classed fighter.

Oops. Reading comprehension > me today. It would still work as a straight fighter, just less effective.

edit: here we go:

Flaw: Battle jump
Flaw: Imp. bull rush
F1: Spiked chain proficiency?
1: Leap of the Heavens (aids battle jump, not as much as leaping dragon stance though)
F2: Power attack
3: Power lunge (BAB 3 needed)
F4: Headlong rush (needs BAB of 4)
F6: Shock trooper (needs BAB of 6)
6: Leap attack (Cannot be taken as fighter bonus or before 5th level due to 8 jump ranks required)

I added spiked chain proficiency since headlong rush says you automatically provoke an AOO from your target, assuming they can reach you of course.

[Eldariel]

Basically, could someone build an ubercharger with a single-class fighter, and only spend 8 of his feats doing it?

You can't make the Ubercharger with anything less than 20 freely applied levels, 760k gp and free bufftime. Charger, on the other hand, yeah. You get Shock Trooper (3 feats), you get Spirited Charge (3 feats) and you still have room for some multipliers like Headlong Rush, Leap Attack (of questionable use with a mount, tho), Battle Leader's Charge or something along those lines. And +1 Valorous Lance for good measure.

[Hirax]

I say skip the mount. Being a jumper is better since you get far superior tactical movement. The build I posted will net you 100 damage per hit easily.

edit: assuming a strength mod of 16, average weapon damage of 5 from 2d4+1 (+1 valorous spiked chain), and that you're putting all 6 BAB into power attack, you'd be doing an average of 140 (105 if you couldn't get high enough for a successful battle jump) damage per hit. A strength mod of 20 bumps that up to an average of 156 (117 without battle jump).

[Eldariel]

I say skip the mount. Being a jumper is better since you get far superior tactical movement. The build I posted will net you 100 damage per hit easily.

Mount's more damage and superior mobility, though. But yeah, jumper's harder to harass and more versatile (though sometimes you can have issues against larger adversaries). As a bonus for mounted charger tho, Ride-By Attack comes with the No AoOs clause making it excellent against oversized things. And, of course, you get to do the ride-by thus not remaining anywhere near the target with any decently fast mount. But it risks the mount dying (unless it's a fancier model) so you give some, you take some.

I'd probably only go Mount if I didn't have a large number of allowed sources (since mounted chargers actually work straight outta Core with a handy dandy Leadership mount or an item or a Planar Bound mount).

[Hirax]

Very true, you need quite a grab bag of sources for my build :D

[JaronK]

Without pounce you're not an ubercharger. You're a charge character, but not an ubercharger.

I tend to define the term as any character capable of one shot killing any reasonablely CR'd opponent while still having enough attacks to hit everybody nearby. As in "I charged, so everyone in that area of the battlefield is now dead."

JaronK

[Eldariel]

Without pounce you're not an ubercharger. You're a charge character, but not an ubercharger.

I tend to define the term as any character capable of one shot killing any reasonablely CR'd opponent while still having enough attacks to hit everybody nearby. As in "I charged, so everyone in that area of the battlefield is now dead."

JaronK

In my books, "Ubercharger" refers to the build named "the Ubercharger"; the build dealing maximum charge damage possible in the game without loops.

[sengmeng]

what's the least cheesy way to get Pounce?

[RaginChangeling]

what's the least cheesy way to get Pounce?

Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian 1, replaces Fast Movement in Complete Champion.

[Greenish]

what's the least cheesy way to get Pounce?Singh Rager, I should think, but there are so many, and the definition of cheese so subjective. Psychic Warrior, ranger wands, Snow Tiger Lodge…

[Edit]:
Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian 1, replaces Fast Movement in Complete Champion.He didn't ask for the easiest, but for the least cheesy. Granted, "cheese" is subjective, but I can't think of more than one way that could be considered cheesier than spirit lion.

[RaginChangeling]

Singh Rager, I should think, but there are so many, and the definition of cheese so subjective. Psychic Warrior, ranger wands, Snow Tiger Lodge…

[Edit]: He didn't ask for the easiest, but for the least cheesy. Granted, "cheese" is subjective, but I can't think of more than one way that could be considered cheesier than spirit lion.

Psychic Warrior and Ranger don't really grant pounce, they grant powers/spells that replicate pounce. Barbarian 1 is pretty much the least cheesy way I know that grants always-on 'Pounce', I mean are you forgetting the Feral Template? Or Polymorph?

[Hirax]

Well, without knowing exactly how much of what's been posted you're going to enact, I think the cheese wheel might have already rolled in. If at level 6 you're doing a hundred damage in one hit, to me that's cheesy regardless of whether you're doing core only or reaching into a library's worth of books.

Here's this list though, for pounce: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103358

[Lateral]

Yeah. Psionic Lion's Charge is definitely cheesy; its instantaneous casting duration means you manifest it once and have Pounce forever. :smallsigh:

[Greenish]

I mean are you forgetting the Feral Template? Or Polymorph?Oh right, those are more cheesy, too.

[JaronK]

In my books, "Ubercharger" refers to the build named "the Ubercharger"; the build dealing maximum charge damage possible in the game without loops.

I used to think that way too, but the fact is too many people say they want an "ubercharger" and they just don't mean the real thing. So, I had to adjust my definition to include anything that in game functions like the real thing (one hit kills all, lots of things die). But I sure as heck won't accept someone who can't even do that.

JaronK

[Lateral]

In my books, "Ubercharger" refers to the build named "the Ubercharger"; the build dealing maximum charge damage possible in the game without loops.

Ahem. The War Hulking Hurler would like a word with y-

...Never mind, no he doesn't. My bad. :smallredface:

[RaginChangeling]

Ahem. The War Hulking Hurler would like a word with y-

...Never mind, no he doesn't. My bad. :smallredface:

Hey, they can both deal damage best represented in scientific notation.

I think its okay to mix up which of them is marginally better.

[Lateral]

Plus, he said 'charge damage.'

[Darrin]

Could you do the same with a Tauric(Savage Species) creature for a more efficient creature?

I'd houserule that you could. You'd just have to estimate its LA.

No need to estimate. The 3.5 update booklet updated the Tauric template's LA to the base humanoid +3. (Which means you can still stack a bunch of templates on the bottom half for free.)