[3.5] Any logic flaws?

[Lateral]

I'm trying to build a character, and I'm not sure if I've done anything wrong here. Assuming fractional BAB stacking:

Race: Whisper Gnome
Class: Swordsage 1/Ardent 1/Egoist 1/Swordsage 1/Ardent 1/Psionic Mindbender 1/Swordsage 1/Ardent 1
Feats: 1st- Adaptive Style, 3rd- Practiced Manifester (Ardent), 6th- Mindsight, 9th- Darkstalker
ACFs: Egoist 1- Minor Shapeshift

It gets 6 IL, 8 ML (and being an Ardent, 4th-level powers), the Minor Shapeshift ability of a Changeling, and 100 feet telepathy plus Mindsight.
What I'm looking for is any major screw-up. Anything I've missed, or anything I don't have that I need? Also, I have no idea what mantles I should take except that I'll need at least one 3rd-level Telepathy power.

[erikun]

Practiced Manifester is applied to only one class when you take it. It would be Practiced Manifester (Psion) or Practiced Manifester (Ardent), but you wouldn't get the benefit to both classes. I'm assuming that you're applying it to your Ardent class.

You are only an 8th level character, and so your Manifester Level would be capped at ML 8. The ML increase from Practiced Manifester does not allow you to exceed your HD. It's rather a moot point though, as Ardent 3 + Mindbender 1 + Practiced Manifester would give you ML 8 anyways. I'm assuming that Mindbender gives spellcasting at first level as well, as I'm not directly familiar with the prestige class.

That's still okay, though. You can still learn 4th level powers; 5th level powers would be beyond your reach. You should have a total of five Ardent powers: two 1st-level powers (from Ardent 1), one 2nd-level power (from Ardent 2 + Practiced Manifester at ECL 4), one 3rd-level power (from Mindbender 1 + Practiced Manifester at ECL 6), and one 4th-level power from the third level in Ardent. You also have three Psion powers known, as a typical Psion 1.

Check to see if you need just a power from the Telepathy "school" or from the actual Telepath powers list. I'm not quite sure that any prerequisites make the distinction, but you'd want to make sure anyways. [EDIT] False Sensory Input is a 3rd level Telepath discipline power and a 3rd level Deception mantle power, if it does become important.

I'm not that familiar with Tome of Battle and IL, but I believe that Swordsage 4 + non-ToB class 4 = IL 6. I'm not familiar with the Adaptive Style or Darkstalker feats, but I'll assume they don't relate to the psionic side of things.

[Greenish]

I'm not familiar with the Adaptive Style or Darkstalker feats, but I'll assume they don't relate to the psionic side of things.Adaptive Style swaps your readied maneuvers as a full round action, and by many readings also refreshes them. Darkstalker allows you to Hide from scent, blindsight etc.

You'll want to take the swordsage levels on odd levels with at least a pair of non-swordsage levels in between, to get higher level maneuvers.

[Lateral]

Huh, I could've sworn it was a 9th level build. Counted wrong. :smallconfused:

Psionic Mindbender is just an adaptation of the Mindbender PrC (Complete Arcane). It requires a 3rd level Telepathy power, so it doesn't have to be Telepath-specific.

Wait, I just made a screw-up. For an Ardent to get a 3rd level power, he has to take another level of Ardent at 5th even if he has Practiced Manifester.

Edit: Fixed it, and now there are 2 levels between every Swordsage level. (Mindbender is a PrC and advances ML +1, though, so it's ML +1.5 between the last two SS levels.) I'm planning on pretty much just continuing taking Swordsage levels, so it works out fine.

[erikun]

Ah yes, what you just be a general Telepathy power. You would need to wait until ECL 5 before taking a level in Ardent to pick up a 3rd level power. That would mean revising your build as you have done, or waiting to pick up Mindbender until ECL 8 - and thus taking the Darkstalker feat earlier. I'm not sure if that is an option, though.

When I said I wasn't familiar with the Mindbender, I mean I didn't have the book for the actual Mindbender PrC. :smalltongue: I'm familiar with the caster-to-manifester conversion for PrCs, though.

Just for you, here are the 3rd level telepathy powers you can pick up as a Ardent. I'm just going by the ones from the Complete Psionic book, not any other mantles online.

Corruption and Madness (Mental Turmoil)
Deception (False Sensory Input)
Mental (Mind Trap)
Pain and Suffering (Empathic Transfer Hostile, Mental Turmoil*)

*Mental Turmoil is listed in the power description as being a Pain and Suffering 3 power, despite not being on the Pain and Suffering Mantle list.


One last question: if you are just taking Swordsage levels from here onward, why the last level of Ardent? You already have Mindsight at that point, and it doesn't sound like you are looking for a specific power.

[Lateral]

The last Ardent level is to get 4th level powers (which I can't get otherwise.) It's my fourth non-Swordsage or PrC level, so it doesn't hurt my ML at all.

[erikun]

You mentioned that you were taking Swordsage levels from here on out. It sounds like you are picking up a 4th level Ardent power (at drastically reduced PP, since you only have 17+bonus rather than the standard 58+bonus for an 8th level Ardent) and then leaving it to stagnate for the remaining 12 levels of your build. If you are focusing on Swordsage, I don't see why the 4th level Ardent power would matter... especially when you haven't even decided on a specific one to pick up!

[Greenish]

The last Ardent level is to get 4th level powers (which I can't get otherwise.) It's my fourth non-Swordsage or PrC level, so it doesn't hurt my ML at all.Wait, wait, why would ardent hurt your ML?

[Cog]

I think that's supposed to be IL and just got tangled with Maneuvers.

[Ozymandias]

Wait, wait, why would ardent hurt your ML?

Since he was pointing out that it's an even non-initiator level, he probably means IL.

[Lateral]

Urgh, I meant IL.

Since Practiced Manifester doesn't boost PP/day, I know I won't have very many PP. I thought about going with a psionic prestige class and then more Swordsage, but that loses out on a lot of maneuvers known/readied even if my IL still progresses fully.

[Cog]

Since Practiced Manifester doesn't boost PP/day...
It does count for the bonus PP for a high manifesting-stat mod, in case you weren't aware.

[Lateral]

I know that, but that's a difference of maybe 8 PP.

[Ernir]

Telepathy/Mindsight + Maneuvers + partial Ardent manifesting makes the build look somewhat unfocused. What precisely is it you are trying to accomplish?

[Lateral]

Ultimate assassin, basically. This isn't a PC, it's for an NPC villain. I figure Mindsight lets him see anyone coming, utility powers are helpful and maneuvers help both quickly kill someone and sneak around; Shadow Hand makes for a great sneak and the Nightmare Blades are great killing blows. The Ardent was mostly to get Mindsight and because manifesting is useful, and it takes less actual levels than, say, Warlock or something. (If there's a better way to get reasonably long-range Telepathy, I'm all ears.)

[Greenish]

Prestige classes don't give full IL progression unless they say so, and the ones that do also give maneuvers known/readied.

[Lateral]

If I remember correctly, the RAW is unclear on this one, and it's been argued both ways; I'm assuming yes, but if not it doesn't take much tweaking to work. Was there a Q&A answering this?


Prestige classes work a little differently. In most cases, you add the full prestige class level to your martial adept level to determine your initiator level.
From this text, it's arguable whether 'most cases' refers only to the prestige classes in ToB, or whether it's most PrCs with some exceptions.