Warlock PrC

[Half-orc Bard]

what are good PrCs for a level 11warlock to get? Or what other class would be useful for multi classing

[true_shinken]

Hellfire Warlock. Just... Hellfire Warlock.
From Fiendish Codex II.

[Lateral]

If you want sheer blasting power, then dip Binder 1 (Tome of Magic) for the Naberius vestige, then take Hellfire Warlock (Fiendish Codex 2.) Hellfire Warlocks get a maximum of 6d6 bonus damage to their Eldritch Blast, but take constitution damage when they use a Hellfire Blast. The Naberius vestige allows you to regenerate ability damage every round, so you can Hellfire Blast without the drawback being such a big deal.

[gorfnab]

Hellfire Warlock
Eldritch Disciple - if multiclassed
Eldritch Theurge - if multiclassed

Many more others can be found in this handy Warlock Information Compilation (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2915.0).

[Bang!]

If you're Good: Sentinel of Bearface from the Book of Exalted Deeds. So you can stop being a flying hairless monkey who shoots lazors from your face and start being a flying bear that shoots lazors from your face.

[graymachine]

There aren't many PrC options for warlocks. The Binder1 trick with Hellfire Warlock requires your DM to have a loose interpretation of the rules. Honestly, taking anything that reduces the already limited number of invocations you have takes some serious consideration. Better to focus on exploiting your invocations; bear in mind when looking through them that you can spam them every round all day long. Think large scale and creatively. I defeated an army that had no magical support singlehandedly by flying and spamming area effects. Warlocks also make pretty good artificers, given that based on the wording in the class they can craft both arcane and divine magic items.

[MeeposFire]

There aren't many PrC options for warlocks. The Binder1 trick with Hellfire Warlock requires your DM to have a loose interpretation of the rules. Honestly, taking anything that reduces the already limited number of invocations you have takes some serious consideration. Better to focus on exploiting your invocations; bear in mind when looking through them and you can spam them every round all day long. Think large scale and creatively. I defeated an army that had no magical support singlehandedly by flying and spamming area effects. Warlocks also make pretty good artificers, given that based on the wording in the class they can craft both arcane and divine magic items.

There is 0 ambiguity or "loose rules" on the binder idea. You could make a case about the Incarnum trick but the binder trick is 100% legit.

[graymachine]

I was pretty sure the Sage made a ruling on it, clarifying that the Hellfire Warlock PrC states that the CON damage cannot be prevented or circumvented. In essence, you are sacrificing CON to the fiends in exchange for the extra boom and they don't normally enter into deals that let them get hoodwinked.

[MeeposFire]

I was pretty sure the Sage made a ruling on it, clarifying that the Hellfire Warlock PrC states that the CON damage cannot be prevented or circumvented. In essence, you are sacrificing CON to the fiends in exchange for the extra boom and they don't normally enter into deals that let them get hoodwinked.

Actually the 3.5 FAQ only deals with the strongheart vest which is controversial. Also it says it doesn't work because the damage is not an attack (the problem being of course that the vest does not care if it is an attack or not) so it does not actually answer the question in this case.

The binder lets you take the damage (you do take the damage unlike the vest) but the next round you heal it which is the same as taking the damage and then using a wand of restoration on your next turn (except you don't have to pay for it every time:smallwink:) which is 100% within the rules.

The vest is controversial since you take damage but then it is reduced to 0. There is no way of adjudicating this fairly within RAW since either side can provide examples (it is whether you believe that taking no damage ever from this ability counts as immunity or not) of why they are right and in the end it becomes an "ask your DM" question. The binder is a safe option though it won't protect you from using a lot of hellfire on your turn (from say quickening and normal use of EB in one round means you will have a net loss of con) and it takes time still to heal (even if it is one round).

[graymachine]

Ah. I could be totally wrong; I just recall there being a big stink over the binder trick. If it's legit, then go for it; it significantly boosts the boom capacity of a warlock, although you shouldn't expect to be able to do as much as a wizard. I've always preferred warlocks as utility casters and viewed eldritch blast as something to do when I run out of ideas. On the other hand, I've always had the experience of eldritch blast being great for getting around SR.

[true_shinken]

Ah. I could be totally wrong; I just recall there being a big stink over the binder trick. If it's legit, then go for it; it significantly boosts the boom capacity of a warlock, although you shouldn't expect to be able to do as much as a wizard. I've always preferred warlocks as utility casters and viewed eldritch blast as something to do when I run out of ideas. On the other hand, I've always had the experience of eldritch blast being great for getting around SR.
You are indeed wrong. The binder trick is simply a synergy - Naberius heals ability damage. You suffer the damage as normal, but it heals really fast (1 point/round).
And eldritch blasts can only ignore SR when coupled with vitriolic blast, a greater essence.
If you have any love for all things warlock, check out my melee warlock handbook before Mr. T knocks on your door.

[Bang!]

You are indeed wrong.The stink that keeps coming up is less over what the rules say than it is over what a DM should be expected to allow.

[MeeposFire]

There is nothing wrong with the binder idea. Mechanically it works. It works thematically (binder and warlock work great together in fluff). It even works on the balance level. If the DM does not allow this the DM is being arbitrary unless the forbid anything for spellcasters including the standard restoration spells (which the prc is told to use if you don't have anything better).

[Bang!]

There is nothing wrong with the binder idea. Mechanically it works. It works thematically (binder and warlock work great together in fluff). It even works on the balance level. If the DM does not allow this the DM is being arbitrary unless the forbid anything for spellcasters including the standard restoration spells (which the prc is told to use if you don't have anything better).If I say I disagree on any count, can we count this as a stink and move on?

[MeeposFire]

If I say I disagree on any count, can we count this as a stink and move on?

You could count it as a stink but you can't move on. You will have to prove that the stink is due to DMs and how much they should allow not whether you can cause an argument since if you recall that is what you said. Just making a stink is not enough. The biggest stink thus far was confusing the binder trick with the soulmeld trick. If this was a conversation about the soulmeld trick you would have a point (as that is a case of what a DM allows as it is a DM call).

You are more than welcome to move on if you don't want to defend your statement of course. I can't make you defend it.

[true_shinken]

If I say I disagree on any count, can we count this as a stink and move on?

Dude, take a read again in the Hellfire Warlock class. It says so in the description that warlocks search for ways to recover from the Con damage. Naberius is one of such ways. Next you are going to complain about them using wands of restoration...

[Pechvarry]

I wouldn't let a player use a naberius-abusing hellfire warlock just because it's the only warlock build the entirety of the internet seems to care about. But then, we shy away from master spellthief unseen seers, DFI bards, and any other build that is a defacto CO response.

[SaintRidley]

Because Naberius Hellfirelock is overpowered.

I mean, it would be if someone were suggesting Legacy Champion abuse on a Naberius Hellfirelock.

But Naberius with a Hellfire Warlock? Just makes the guy feel useful in an ordinary party. Doesn't unbalance him or anything.

[TroubleBrewing]

Because Naberius Hellfirelock is overpowered.

I mean, it would be if someone were suggesting Legacy Champion abuse on a Naberius Hellfirelock.

But Naberius with a Hellfire Warlock? Just makes the guy feel useful in an ordinary party. Doesn't unbalance him or anything.

Neither does using Legacy Champion. "Fist Full of D6" builds are fun to play, and since all they do is straight damage, they aren't totally overpowered. Sure, the guy is tossing around 30d6 Eldritch Blasts like they're candy, but who cares? The enemies have a miss chance/invisibility/behind cover/whatever else you can think of to deal with the issue.

Warlocks are Tier 4 because, with a few very notable exceptions, their tactics are the same from level 1 to level 20: I kill it with lasers that shoot out of my eyes. Not overpowered, just a decent enough tactic to see you through most encounters.

[MeeposFire]

I wouldn't let a player use a naberius-abusing hellfire warlock just because it's the only warlock build the entirety of the internet seems to care about. But then, we shy away from master spellthief unseen seers, DFI bards, and any other build that is a defacto CO response.

Its not the defacto response but if you want to blast and you don't want to fight about whether you can use the soulmeld then it is your best option, but only if you want to blast.

If you wanted to be truly OP then you don't play a warlock at all as they are a middle of the pack class. You play warlock because it is fun and flavorful not so you can have lots of power.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Warlocks are Tier 4 because, with a few very notable exceptions, their tactics are the same from level 1 to level 20: I kill it with lasers that shoot out of my eyes. Not overpowered, just a decent enough tactic to see you through most encounters.

Not quite... their tactic is generally 'I kill it with lasers that shoot out of my eyes and also apply a save or lose effect at the same time. At higher levels, they can be a quite effective battlefield control character.

Other than the infamous Hellfire Warlock, there's another option floating around:

Warlock6/Chameleon2/Mindbender1/Warlock11

In brief:

Take Charm Person as one of your Lesser Invocations. Chameleon2 is a dip used for the Floating Feat that you can change daily. When combined with the Warlock12 ability, this gives them a HUGE ability to be their own Magic Item Mart during downtime without harming their ability to perform their role in combat. Mindbender1 gives Telepathy 100', which lets you take Mindsight, which is about as good at detecting opponents this side of Tremorsense.