Build Help Requested. How to Improve Bull Rushes?

[Starsign]

I've been working on a character for a 10th level game (might be gestalt, might not be, we haven't decided yet); trying to make a Juggernaut-like character by focusing greatly on charging and bull-rushes. I'm already taking 4 levels in Minotaur (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10295137&postcount=275), but I need 6 levels (or 6 // 10 if gestalt) in something else. Would anyone have any suggestions as to what to recommend for classes and feats please? Also would like to have good unarmed attacks and high HP/DR if possible. :smallsmile:

[Greenish]

Dungeoncrasher fighter ACF (2nd and 6th levels) from Dungeonscape makes Bull Rushing an excellent tactic.

[Edit]: Also, while Shock Trooper (a tactical feat from CW) is usually just taken for ignoring the attack penalty from PA, it has two excellent other uses relating to bull rushing.

[Edit]: Also look into Combat Brute (CW) and Knockback (RoS).

[Bakkan]

To improve your bull rush a little bit, one or more levels of Incarnate (IIRC) from Magic of Incarnum gives you the Mauling Gauntlets. If your really want to max it out, take the Improved Soulmeld Capacity feat (which increases the essentia capacity of one soulmeld/day by 1). Combining that with the similar Incarnate ability should allow you to invest 4 essentia into the gauntlets, which gives you +10 morale to your bull rushes (among other things).

Incarnate works great in gestalt, but if you don't use gestalt, you can pick up the Mauling Gauntlets with a feat (Shape Soulmeld), and if you take the Bonus Essentia feat at 6th level, you can get a +6 morale bonus.

[TroubleBrewing]

Relevant link is relevant. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7081777)

[Starsign]

Thank you for the link and advice, I'll make good use of it. :smallsmile:

[Endarire]

Charging Minotaur maneuver (Stone Dragon discipline - Tome of Battle)

[Person_Man]

Have you seen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127026) Flaming Homer and the King of Pong (second post)?

Short version: Take Knockback, Shock Trooper, and Dungeoncrasher. Get really big and strong. Now every time you Power Attack an enemy you get a free Bull Rush, can steer them left or right and into other enemies (Tripping both), and deal massive damage whenever they hit a wall or object. If you're in an open area with no walls or objects, get flight and attack from above to Bull Rush them into the floor.

[Tibbaerrohwen]

Have you seen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127026) Flaming Homer and the King of Pong (second post)?

Short version: Take Knockback, Shock Trooper, and Dungeoncrasher. Get really big and strong. Now every time you Power Attack an enemy you get a free Bull Rush, can steer them left or right and into other enemies (Tripping both), and deal massive damage whenever they hit a wall or object. If you're in an open area with no walls or objects, get flight and attack from above to Bull Rush them into the floor.

I never thought of the bull rushing from above into the ground. That is very sound advice for optimizing your Dungeoncrasher.

[Starsign]

Have you seen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127026) Flaming Homer and the King of Pong (second post)?

Short version: Take Knockback, Shock Trooper, and Dungeoncrasher. Get really big and strong. Now every time you Power Attack an enemy you get a free Bull Rush, can steer them left or right and into other enemies (Tripping both), and deal massive damage whenever they hit a wall or object. If you're in an open area with no walls or objects, get flight and attack from above to Bull Rush them into the floor.

Wow, I never thought of that :smalleek: I'll be sure to try it out for my character, thanks! :smallbiggrin:

[Person_Man]

Wow, I never thought of that :smalleek: I'll be sure to try it out for my character, thanks! :smallbiggrin:

Glad I could help. I would offer you a few words of caution though. I've actually played Flaming Homer. And while he's very fun for a couple of encounters, like many high damage builds battlefield control builds, it drives the DM bloody crazy. It's not game breaking, but I suggest that like many high powered spells, you should only use Knockback and Dungeoncrasher if everyone else in your party is optimized.

So I would suggest playing a character that focuses on other things, that also happens to include a strong Bull Rush component, such as a Psychic Warrior, Druid, Gish, Swordsage, etc. Find a secondary class feature and/or magic items that make Bull Rush fun without over doing it.

These include a Shield of the Severed Hand (Comp Divine, 1 free Bull Rush when an enemy misses you), Knight of the Iron Glacier (Frostburn, gives you a Special Mount that's really good at it), Smiting Power (Champions of Valor, adds Smite bonuses to Bull Rush), Knockback enhancement (Complete Warrior, free Bull Rush on every attack with a ranged weapon with a fixed modifier, nerfed in MIC), and a Brutal Surge weapon (MIC, free Bull Rushes limited times per day). There's also half a dozen Bull Rush related Maneuvers in the Tome of Battle.

[Starsign]

Glad I could help. I would offer you a few words of caution though. I've actually played Flaming Homer. And while he's very fun for a couple of encounters, like many high damage builds battlefield control builds, it drives the DM bloody crazy. It's not game breaking, but I suggest that like many high powered spells, you should only use Knockback and Dungeoncrasher if everyone else in your party is optimized.

So I would suggest playing a character that focuses on other things, that also happens to include a strong Bull Rush component, such as a Psychic Warrior, Druid, Gish, Swordsage, etc. Find a secondary class feature and/or magic items that make Bull Rush fun without over doing it.

These include a Shield of the Severed Hand (Comp Divine, 1 free Bull Rush when an enemy misses you), Knight of the Iron Glacier (Frostburn, gives you a Special Mount that's really good at it), Smiting Power (Champions of Valor, adds Smite bonuses to Bull Rush), Knockback enhancement (Complete Warrior, free Bull Rush on every attack with a ranged weapon with a fixed modifier, nerfed in MIC), and a Brutal Surge weapon (MIC, free Bull Rushes limited times per day). There's also half a dozen Bull Rush related Maneuvers in the Tome of Battle.

I'll be keeping that in mind... For next time. This game I'm in is actually a solo gestalt game (specifically a superhero one, I'm basing my character off Juggernaut :smalltongue:). I am worried that my character is pretty powerful, but I'm just using Knockback, Dungeoncrasher, and this Minotaur class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10295137&postcount=275) for bull-rushing optimization.