Bear Warrior and Frost Rager

[Zombimode]

I have some questions concerning a combination of Bear Warrior with Frost Rager. Some of them specific, other more general.

1. How do Natural Attacks interact with iterative attacks?
Do you have to decide between using your natural attacks or your normal iterative attacks? Or can you make your standart attack sequens and than get (some of) your natural attacks on top?

2. If NOT using the Natural Attacks, do you get to choose between your natural weapons which to take for your iterative attacks? (Say the bear warrior can choose to use his bite over a paw)

3. How do Natural Attacks interact with the term "unarmed attack"?

And an unrelated Bear Warrior question:
4. The description of the bear form seams to be contradictory regarding the number of times per day a bear warrior can asume the bear form. At first it says "His only limit on the number of times per day he can assume a bear form is the number of times per day he enters a rage or frenzy[...]". His only limit... Later it says "Any bear warrior can assume the form of a black bear once per day." and likewise at levels 5 and 10. If the level limits the times per day of the bear form, then the number of rages cant be the only limit. So, whats right and whats wrong here?



In short I try to understand how many attacks (of whatever kind) a Barb/Bear Warrior/Frost Rager would get at maximum, using this flurry ability the Frost Rager gets, and on which of them he would get the extra frost damage through Frostrage.

[Greenish]

1. You take your iterative attacks with a manufactured weapon (or unarmed strike) first, then all natural attacks as secondary natural attacks. If you have no manufactured weapons, you use your normal attack sequence (say, claw/claw/bite for a bear), with no extra attacks from high BAB.

2. You can't take iterative attacks with natural weapons, other than unarmed strike.

3. Unarmed Strike works slightly differently from other natural attacks. See above.

4. CW errata fixes this. You can assume the bear form any time you rage, as many times a day as that might be.


A barbarian/bear warrior/frostrager with at least 16 BAB would have iterative attacks at US/US/US/US + haste and other effects, then the bear's attack sequence of claw/claw/bite, all as secondary natural weapons.

[Keld Denar]

Well, you have 1-2 punch in there, so it would be 5 UASs and then claw/claw/bite.

Google "natural attacks and you: a miniguide". I cowrote it with Solo over on BG. I'd link it, but I'm posting from my phone...

[Greenish]

Well, you have 1-2 punch in there, so it would be 5 UASs and then claw/claw/bite.I was going to edit that in, but decided "haste and other effects" should cover it too.

The guide is here (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10994.0).

[Zombimode]

Well, thanks, that clears it up :smallsmile: (mostly).

Question remaining:
Would the frostrager get his bonus cold damage on his natural attacks?

Oh, and another question concerning the "Rend" feature of the Forstrager. The description doesnt stat an action type, so the rend probably is no action and just happens. It also doesnt stat a limit of rends per round. The way it is worded the rend could trigger every time two or more attacks hit an enemy. So a frostrager attacking two enemies could rend two times. Is this correct?

[dgnslyr]

Well, if we look at the Girallon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/girallon.htm), it says that Rend triggers when two or more claw attacks connect. I'd think it's safe assume Rend can only trigger once per turn. Maybe once per target per turn, which might make sense by RAI. Otherwise, it would just be silly. I guess there's only so much flesh to rip out of your target at a time?

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Unbearably brilliant idea time: What about an Earth Dwarf Ranger 3/Barbarian 2/ Fist of the Forest 3/ Deepwarden 2/ Bear Warrior 1/ Frost Rager 5/ War Shaper 4?

Race is Earth Dwarf, for bonuses to the all-important Con and Str, with penalties to the less significant Dex and Cha. You've got Ranger for skills and free bonus feats, for meeting PrCs, Spirit Lion Wolf Totem Barbarian for Pounce and Improved Trip, Fist of the Forest for punching things really hard and having great AC, Deepwarden for more AC, Bear Warrior for mauling people, Frost Rager for mauling people harder, and finally Warshaper to maul people even more.

Unfortunately, you'll be stuck with the somewhat dinky Black Bear form, but it's going to be tricky to fit in the four more levels necessary to get Brown Bear form.

[Lateral]

Unbearably brilliant idea time: What about an Earth Dwarf Ranger 3/Barbarian 2/ Fist of the Forest 3/ Deepwarden 2/ Bear Warrior 1/ Frost Rager 5/ War Shaper 4?

Race is Earth Dwarf, for bonuses to the all-important Con and Str, with penalties to the less significant Dex and Cha. You've got Ranger for skills and free bonus feats, for meeting PrCs, Spirit Lion Wolf Totem Barbarian for Pounce and Improved Trip, Fist of the Forest for punching things really hard and having great AC, Deepwarden for more AC, Bear Warrior for mauling people, Frost Rager for mauling people harder, and finally Warshaper to maul people even more.

Unfortunately, you'll be stuck with the somewhat dinky Black Bear form, but it's going to be tricky to fit in the four more levels necessary to get Brown Bear form.
Looks good. Is there a reason you need to be a dwarf (I'm not familiar with Deepwarden)? Otherwise, there's the ever-popular Dragonborn Water Orc. :smallwink:

[Greenish]

Looks good. Is there a reason you need to be a dwarf (I'm not familiar with Deepwarden)? Otherwise, there's the ever-popular Dragonborn Water Orc. :smallwink:Yeah, Deepwarden (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040807a&page=4) is dwarf-only.

[dgnslyr]

Hmm, but Deepwarden's only purpose is an AC boost. Now, if we shaved out those two levels, and one Frost Rager and one Warshaper, we could squeeze in four more Bear Warrior levels, for Grizzly fun.

[Lateral]

I'm thinking the extra +2 STR and CON and brown bear shape weighs out Deepwarden, yeah. (Plus you have supersenses. I'm assuming you aren't flying, since you're probably wearing really heavy armour.)

[dgnslyr]

Hmm, what was that about heavy armor? Heavy armor doesn't stack with the FotF AC boost, methinks. The original idea between FotF and Deepwarden was to add CON to AC twice, but that AC boost might not be worth the two levels invested. Having Scent is pretty fun, but Fist of the Forest already gives that, IIRC. The question, then, is if Grizzly Bear form is worth the loss of Fast Healing 2, Rend, and CON to AC (again). I think it'll be worth it, though.