How Would I Greatly Strip Down 3.5?

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I'm looking to play a greatly stripped down game of D&D 3.5 with some non-gamer friends of mine, and I'm wondering how I could cut the rules set in half.

Cutting out things like grappling, flanking, and attacks of opportunity is obvious, but what else should I do?

[sengmeng]

don't cut those out, just stick to PHB and DMG

[dsmiles]

You could do that, but personally, I'd probably switch to a lighter system altogether (perhaps RISUS, or Mouse Guard). Not everybody can handle all the intricacies of DnD on their first outing into the gaming sub-culture.

For 3.5 I'd advocate starting with core only. Let them get used to the basic mechanics (though I'd keep flanking, it's one of the rogue's best friends) before adding things like ToM or ToB.

[Talakeal]

Play Fourth Edition :p

Seriously though, if you are trying to introduce new players to the hobby why not play an RPG themed boardgame like Talisman, Heroquest or Dragonstrike, (although I can see cost being an issue) or a more free form RPG until they get used to it?

[Lord.Sorasen]

I wouldn't recommend taking any of the things you mentioned above out. Honestly, start them with core at level 1 and teach it as you go. At low levels give medium creatures without reach, at higher levels allow reach and give bigger creatures... Help them out with magic items, also, and honestly they'll figure it out in time probably maybe.

[Knaight]

I'd start with a game similar to 3.5 but much lighter. Errant perhaps, or even Minimus.

[World Eater]

2nd edition.

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff: Please try to answer the OP's question rather than derailing the thread.

[Bang!]

Are you looking for a one-off game session or to teach players to play 3e later on?

If the prior, I'd just abandon 3e because it's going to be a nightmare. I recommend Warrior Rogue and Mage (http://www.stargazergames.eu/games/warrior-rogue-mage/) for a quick dungeoncrawl because A) it's free and B) it takes maybe 30 minutes to get a comprehensive grip on the rules.

If the latter, you could start them out with pregenerated characters. Specifically, easy classes - things like Fighters, Barbarians, Rangers, Paladins, Swashbucklers, maybe Warlocks - and just use the rules as printed.

If I were going to really strip the d20 system down to a rules-light system, here's what I'd do (spoilered because it's kind of long):
EDIT: Also, note that my definition of "Rules-Light" might be a few steps further than you're looking for while stripping the system down.

-> Keep the 6 attribute system. Drop the ability score/modifier dichotomy. The normal ability generation mechanic is replaced with six d4 rolls. Those are the ability modifiers. There is no other ability score.
-> Drop skills, feats, racial abilities, warmaps, attacks and saves.
-> All characters and monsters have d8 HP/level.
-> Player characters get an extra 2d8 HP, because there's such a thing as too swingy.
-> Conflict resolution is solved via opposed rolls of d20+relevant ability+class modifier. Ties go to the aggressive/active party.
-> If there is no character to give opposition, the DM is to adjudicate the appropriate level of the task and add it to the d20 roll.
-> Relevant ability scores are determined by situation. A Ninja may rely on his dexterity to sneak by an ogre, while a Wizard may apply her cunning to sneak by undetected.
-> Characters can have one class or they can multiclass into two.
-> Classes do not work like they do in normal D&D. They are instead treated as open-ended packages of skill, attack and save bonuses. A class gives benefits to all associated skills, attacks and defenses. For instance, the "Ranger" class would apply its benefits to tracking, wilderness lore, archery skills and animal rearing. "Wizard" would apply its benefits to magical attacks and defenses. "Bard" might apply class benefits to music-based damage, charms and healing. Choose the classes you want and explicitly tag some defining abilities to them. Like Thief = Stealth+Pickpocketing+Daggers or Barbarian = Axes+Yelling+Breaking Stuff.
-> A single-classed character has a class modifier of +[4+level] in its class-related tasks, and a class modifier of +[level] in other tasks. A multiclassed character has a class modifier of +[2+level] in its class-related tasks and +[level] in other tasks.
-> All attacks deal 1d6/level damage.
-> All healing restores 1d6/level hit points.
-> The DM can veto farfetched applications of abilities or class skills (like a character using Thief to wrestle a golem to the ground). DM vetoes may be overridden by a 2/3 majority vote.
-> Monsters have no class.
-> Groups of monsters count as the sum of their levels + the highest relevant ability score, for the sake of saving time. So three level 1 goblins with sneakiness 2 count as a level 3 monster with 3d8 HP. They deal damage according to the largest individual creature in the group. Yes, this is silly, but with the opposed roll thing, play will probably grind to a halt with groups otherwise.


As examples:
Pete is a level 5 Fighter with abilities: S4 D2 C3 I1 W2 C1 and 5d8 7d8 = 20 28 HP.
Sally is a level 3 Rogue/Wizard with abilities: S2 D3 C1 I4 W3 C2 and 3d8 5d8 = 19 25 HP.
Pete is trying to track food! He makes a Ranger roll, modified by Wisdom to track prey (d20+5+2) the DM figures this is a level 1 task and rolls d20+1 against Pete*. Pete rolls a 3 (modified to 10) and the DM rolls a 12 (modified to 13). Pete is unsuccessful, and turns back to return to camp empty handed.

On his way back, Pete is accosted by a Bear! The DM figures a bear is a level 3 monster with 5 strength. He rolls 3d8 (level*d8) for a total of 16 HP.
Combat begins: the Bear swipes at Pete with its claws, using strength (1d20+5+3) and rolling an 11 (modified to 19). Pete blocks with his dexterity and his combat training (1d20+2+9), rolling a 9 (modified to 20) and neatly blocking the attack.

Pete counterattacks by bringing the bear down in a grapple, using Fighter skills and Strength (1d20+4+9). The bear tries to fend him off (d20+5+3), but rolls low and is brought to the ground. Pete rolls 5d6 grapple damage, getting a 19!

The Bear is defeated! Peter returns to camp with meat, but not the kind the party expected!

*Yeah, this is weighted to favor the PCs. This is because the PCs are the big heroes, dammit! :smalltongue:
Pete and Sally are investigating ancient ruins when they are beset by Kobolds! Three Kobolds (Dex=3, 3d8=11 HP) shoot at Sally with their bows (d20+3+3), rolling a 14 (modified to 20). Sally says she uses her Intelligence to modify her Thief reflexes, but the DM vetoes the application of intelligence, saying it didn't make sense given the circumstances. Sally instead decides to defend with her dexterity and Thief class (d20+3+5), but only rolls a 2 (modified to 10). The DM rolls 3d6 1d6 arrow damage, totaling 12 4 damage! Sally is hurt!

Sally responds by using her intelligence to cunningly place a fireball in the middle of them (d20+4+5), and rolls an 8 (modified to 17). The Kobolds try to dodge with a roll of 11 (modified to 17), but are overwhelmed by the flames. Sally rolls 3d6 damage, getting a 14 and exploding the tiny lizard-people.

On Pete's turn, he attempts to give first aid, using his Wisdom attribute. The DM figures that tending to tiny Kobold arrows is a level 3 task. Pete rolls adds Wisdom and non-Fighter levels to his roll, rolling a 7 (modified to 14) against the DM's 9 (modified to 12), and healing Sally by 5d6 damage.

Sally's wounds are healed and the two continue to explore the ruins.

With a 5-minute Excel character sheet, I think this would be easy to teach, easy to use, and would apply a simplified form of the d20 mechanics.


EDIT:
It would be pretty swingy, and players should expect characters to die. (But that's what D&D's about!) :smalltongue: Since this would have very easy character generation, that's not a huge deal, anyway.
EDIT: ^ This was just me typing changes out as they came to mind. I've already modified things a couple times to make it look more like a playable game, but it's still pretty sketchy. I think it could handle a rules-light dungeoncrawl, but I haven't tested it. Late edits are in this color.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Are you looking for a one-off game session or to teach players to play 3e later on?

If the prior, I'd just abandon 3e because it's going to be a nightmare. I recommend Warrior Rogue and Mage (http://www.stargazergames.eu/games/warrior-rogue-mage/) for a quick dungeoncrawl because A) it's free and B) it takes maybe 30 minutes to get a comprehensive grip on the rules.

If the latter, you could start them out with pregenerated characters. Specifically, easy classes - things like Fighters, Barbarians, Rangers, Paladins, Swashbucklers, maybe Warlocks - and just use the rules as printed.

If I were going to really strip the d20 system down to a rules-light system, here's what I'd do (spoilered because it's kind of long):

-> Keep the 6 attribute system. Drop the ability score/modifier dichotomy. The normal ability generation mechanic is replaced with six d4 rolls. Those are the ability modifiers. There is no other ability score.
-> Drop skills, feats, racial abilities, warmaps, attacks and saves.
-> All characters and monsters have d8 HD/level.
-> Conflict resolution is solved via opposed rolls of d20+relevant ability+class modifier. Ties go to the aggressive/active party.
-> If there is no character to give opposition, the DM is to adjudicate the appropriate level of the task and add it to the d20 roll.
-> Relevant ability scores are determined by situation. A Ninja may rely on his dexterity to sneak by an ogre, while a Wizard may apply her cunning to sneak by undetected.
-> Characters can have one class or they can multiclass into two.
-> Classes do not work like they do in normal D&D. They are instead treated as open-ended packages of skill, attack and save bonuses. A class gives benefits to all associated skills, attacks and defenses. For instance, the "Ranger" class would apply its benefits to tracking, wilderness lore, archery skills and animal rearing. "Wizard" would apply its benefits to magical attacks and defenses. "Bard" might apply class benefits to music-based damage, charms and healing.
-> A single-classed character has a class modifier of +[4+level] in its class-related tasks, and a class modifier of +[level] in other tasks. A multiclassed character has a class modifier of +[2+level] in its class-related tasks and +[level] in other tasks.
-> All attacks deal 1d6/level damage.
-> All healing restores 1d6/level hit points.
-> The DM can veto farfetched applications of abilities or class skills (like a character using Thief to wrestle a golem to the ground). DM vetoes may be overridden by a 2/3 majority vote.
-> Monsters have no class.
-> Groups of monsters count as the sum of their levels + the highest relevant ability score, for the sake of saving time. So three level 1 goblins with sneakiness 2 count as a level 3 monster with 3d8 HP and. Yes, this is silly, but with the opposed roll thing, play will probably grind to a halt with groups otherwise.


As examples:
Pete is a level 5 Fighter with abilities: S4 D2 C3 I1 W2 C1 and 5d8 = 20 HP.
Sally is a level 3 Rogue/Wizard with abilities: S2 D3 C1 I4 W3 C2 and 3d8 = 19 HP.
Pete is trying to track food! He makes a Ranger roll, modified by Wisdom to track prey (d20+5+2) the DM figures this is a level 1 task and rolls d20+1 against Pete*. Pete rolls a 3 (modified to 10) and the DM rolls a 12 (modified to 13). Pete is unsuccessful, and turns back to return to camp empty handed.

On his way back, Pete is accosted by a Bear! The DM figures a bear is a level 3 monster with 5 strength. He rolls 3d8 (level*d8) for a total of 16 HP.
Combat begins: the Bear swipes at Pete with its claws, using strength (1d20+5+3) and rolling an 11 (modified to 19). Pete blocks with his dexterity and his combat training (1d20+2+9), rolling a 9 (modified to 20) and neatly blocking the attack.

Pete counterattacks by bringing the bear down in a grapple, using Fighter skills and Strength (1d20+4+9). The bear tries to fend him off (d20+5+3), but rolls low and is brought to the ground. Pete rolls 5d6 grapple damage, getting a 19!

The Bear is defeated! Peter returns to camp with meat, but not the kind the party expected!

*Yeah, this is weighted to favor the PCs. This is because the PCs are the big heroes, dammit! :smalltongue:
Pete and Sally are investigating ancient ruins when they are beset by Kobolds! Three Kobolds (Dex=3, 3d8=11 HP) shoot at Sally with their bows (d20+3+3), rolling a 14 (modified to 20). Sally says she uses her Intelligence to modify her Thief reflexes, but the DM vetoes the application of intelligence, saying it didn't make sense given the circumstances. Sally instead decides to defend with her dexterity and Thief class (d20+3+5), but only rolls a 2 (modified to 10). The DM rolls 3d6 arrow damage, totaling 12 damage! Sally is hurt!

Sally responds by using her intelligence to cunningly place a fireball in the middle of them (d20+4+5), and rolls an 8 (modified to 17). The Kobolds try to dodge with a roll of 11 (modified to 17), but are overwhelmed by the flames. Sally rolls 3d6 damage, getting a 14 and exploding the tiny lizard-people.

On Pete's turn, he attempts to give first aid, using his Wisdom attribute. The DM figures that tending to tiny Kobold arrows is a level 3 task. Pete rolls adds Wisdom and non-Fighter levels to his roll, rolling a 7 (modified to 14) against the DM's 9 (modified to 12), and healing Sally by 5d6 damage.

Sally's wounds are healed and the two continue to explore the ruins.

With a 5-minute Excel character sheet, I think this would be easy to teach, easy to use, and would apply a simplified form of the d20 mechanics.

EDIT:
It would be pretty swingy, and players would expect characters to die, but that's what D&D's about! :smalltongue: Since this would have very easy character generation, that's not a huge deal, anyway.

This is a real gem.

[Bang!]

This is a real gem.
Thanks! :smallsmile: I should probably mention that that was me just typing things down as they came to mind. It definitely needs tweaking, but I think that's the direction that would work best for this sort of revision.

[some guy]

I once played without skills. Instead of succeeding a Difficulty Class, people needed to roll their ability or lower on a d20 to succeed.

Example: Bob has a Strength of 15, he wants to jump a gap. He needs to roll 15 or lower.

You can apply a -2 or -4 for more difficult tasks.

Good thing: no need to explain skills. No need to assign skill-ranks, so faster character generation.
Bad thing: the roll-under-system is quite different than the standard d20+modifiers-need-to-exceed-a-given-number. Using two different rolling systems is confusing.

[SimperingToad]

Castles & Crusades is essentially a stripped down 3E at the core, though it adds some things like the Siege Engine mechanic which is a departure from standard 3E fare.

[0Megabyte]

When I first played D&D, what I got was this adventure game, back in 2000. It wad for 3rd edition. It was a simplified version, with pre-gen characters, only the four base classes (two each of fighters, wizards, clerics and rogues) and explained what to do when you went to level two on the pages.

Initiative was simplified so that everyone just had a number, without rolling. There were six small (but ever growing) adventures inside it, and a much smaller number of options. Grappling and whatnot weren't included at all.

You could try something similar. Just say "here are some archetypical characters. Choose one." give them a nice, clear sheet with the abilities they have, etc. Then put them through some simple, archetypal adventures. "oh no, a band of goblins has captured the mayor's daughter! They fled to a cave near town. Someone must go after them!" etc.

[Quietus]

Are you looking for a one-off game session or to teach players to play 3e later on?

If the prior, I'd just abandon 3e because it's going to be a nightmare. I recommend Warrior Rogue and Mage (http://www.stargazergames.eu/games/warrior-rogue-mage/) for a quick dungeoncrawl because A) it's free and B) it takes maybe 30 minutes to get a comprehensive grip on the rules.

If the latter, you could start them out with pregenerated characters. Specifically, easy classes - things like Fighters, Barbarians, Rangers, Paladins, Swashbucklers, maybe Warlocks - and just use the rules as printed.

If I were going to really strip the d20 system down to a rules-light system, here's what I'd do (spoilered because it's kind of long):
EDIT: Also, note that my definition of "Rules-Light" might be a few steps further than you're looking for while stripping the system down.

-> Keep the 6 attribute system. Drop the ability score/modifier dichotomy. The normal ability generation mechanic is replaced with six d4 rolls. Those are the ability modifiers. There is no other ability score.
-> Drop skills, feats, racial abilities, warmaps, attacks and saves.
-> All characters and monsters have d8 HP/level.
-> Player characters get an extra 2d8 HP, because there's such a thing as too swingy.
-> Conflict resolution is solved via opposed rolls of d20+relevant ability+class modifier. Ties go to the aggressive/active party.
-> If there is no character to give opposition, the DM is to adjudicate the appropriate level of the task and add it to the d20 roll.
-> Relevant ability scores are determined by situation. A Ninja may rely on his dexterity to sneak by an ogre, while a Wizard may apply her cunning to sneak by undetected.
-> Characters can have one class or they can multiclass into two.
-> Classes do not work like they do in normal D&D. They are instead treated as open-ended packages of skill, attack and save bonuses. A class gives benefits to all associated skills, attacks and defenses. For instance, the "Ranger" class would apply its benefits to tracking, wilderness lore, archery skills and animal rearing. "Wizard" would apply its benefits to magical attacks and defenses. "Bard" might apply class benefits to music-based damage, charms and healing. Choose the classes you want and explicitly tag some defining abilities to them. Like Thief = Stealth+Pickpocketing+Daggers or Barbarian = Axes+Yelling+Breaking Stuff.
-> A single-classed character has a class modifier of +[4+level] in its class-related tasks, and a class modifier of +[level] in other tasks. A multiclassed character has a class modifier of +[2+level] in its class-related tasks and +[level] in other tasks.
-> All attacks deal 1d6/level damage.
-> All healing restores 1d6/level hit points.
-> The DM can veto farfetched applications of abilities or class skills (like a character using Thief to wrestle a golem to the ground). DM vetoes may be overridden by a 2/3 majority vote.
-> Monsters have no class.
-> Groups of monsters count as the sum of their levels + the highest relevant ability score, for the sake of saving time. So three level 1 goblins with sneakiness 2 count as a level 3 monster with 3d8 HP. They deal damage according to the largest individual creature in the group. Yes, this is silly, but with the opposed roll thing, play will probably grind to a halt with groups otherwise.


As examples:
Pete is a level 5 Fighter with abilities: S4 D2 C3 I1 W2 C1 and 5d8 7d8 = 20 28 HP.
Sally is a level 3 Rogue/Wizard with abilities: S2 D3 C1 I4 W3 C2 and 3d8 5d8 = 19 25 HP.
Pete is trying to track food! He makes a Ranger roll, modified by Wisdom to track prey (d20+5+2) the DM figures this is a level 1 task and rolls d20+1 against Pete*. Pete rolls a 3 (modified to 10) and the DM rolls a 12 (modified to 13). Pete is unsuccessful, and turns back to return to camp empty handed.

On his way back, Pete is accosted by a Bear! The DM figures a bear is a level 3 monster with 5 strength. He rolls 3d8 (level*d8) for a total of 16 HP.
Combat begins: the Bear swipes at Pete with its claws, using strength (1d20+5+3) and rolling an 11 (modified to 19). Pete blocks with his dexterity and his combat training (1d20+2+9), rolling a 9 (modified to 20) and neatly blocking the attack.

Pete counterattacks by bringing the bear down in a grapple, using Fighter skills and Strength (1d20+4+9). The bear tries to fend him off (d20+5+3), but rolls low and is brought to the ground. Pete rolls 5d6 grapple damage, getting a 19!

The Bear is defeated! Peter returns to camp with meat, but not the kind the party expected!

*Yeah, this is weighted to favor the PCs. This is because the PCs are the big heroes, dammit! :smalltongue:
Pete and Sally are investigating ancient ruins when they are beset by Kobolds! Three Kobolds (Dex=3, 3d8=11 HP) shoot at Sally with their bows (d20+3+3), rolling a 14 (modified to 20). Sally says she uses her Intelligence to modify her Thief reflexes, but the DM vetoes the application of intelligence, saying it didn't make sense given the circumstances. Sally instead decides to defend with her dexterity and Thief class (d20+3+5), but only rolls a 2 (modified to 10). The DM rolls 3d6 1d6 arrow damage, totaling 12 4 damage! Sally is hurt!

Sally responds by using her intelligence to cunningly place a fireball in the middle of them (d20+4+5), and rolls an 8 (modified to 17). The Kobolds try to dodge with a roll of 11 (modified to 17), but are overwhelmed by the flames. Sally rolls 3d6 damage, getting a 14 and exploding the tiny lizard-people.

On Pete's turn, he attempts to give first aid, using his Wisdom attribute. The DM figures that tending to tiny Kobold arrows is a level 3 task. Pete rolls adds Wisdom and non-Fighter levels to his roll, rolling a 7 (modified to 14) against the DM's 9 (modified to 12), and healing Sally by 5d6 damage.

Sally's wounds are healed and the two continue to explore the ruins.

With a 5-minute Excel character sheet, I think this would be easy to teach, easy to use, and would apply a simplified form of the d20 mechanics.


EDIT:
It would be pretty swingy, and players should expect characters to die. (But that's what D&D's about!) :smalltongue: Since this would have very easy character generation, that's not a huge deal, anyway.
EDIT: ^ This was just me typing changes out as they came to mind. I've already modified things a couple times to make it look more like a playable game, but it's still pretty sketchy. I think it could handle a rules-light dungeoncrawl, but I haven't tested it. Late edits are in this color.



I heavily disagree with much of this. All you're going to do is make yourself confused. Here's what I'd do :


Classes : Strip out prepared primary casters. Bard and Sorcerer are all that's left. If they want to play a cleric, it's a Sorcerer with the Cleric list, or a Paladin if they want the melee type. In addition to this, if they get frustrated with a spell they aren't using often, allow them to switch it when they rest.

Skills : Depending on your crew, either leave as is, or fold them into packages, as many systems have done. Spot+Listen+Search = Perception, Tumble/Balance = Acrobatics, Jump+Swim = Athletics, Disable Device + Open Lock + Sleight of Hand = Subterfuge/thievery, etc.

Attributes : Keep'em the way they are. They're a D&D staple.

Special combat maneuvers : Ignore them, until the players have had a bit of experience. If they try to do them themselves (Say, the Fighter wants to knock the Guard's sword out of his hand), give him a general idea of how it works ("Okay, you'll both make attack rolls, and whoever gets higher loses their weapon. If you want, there's a feat that will make you better at this, that you can get when you level"). I suggest skipping the attacks of opportunity on these, for beginners, because it'll add some fun flavor. Putting in a different, but clear penalty - the "Lower roll loses their sword" above - still makes it a choice. Trip would work generally the same way it does now, grapple would be a straight unarmed attack roll vs. theirs, and make it clear that bigger creatures get a bonus to this.

Feats : Keep'em. You know which ones are decent; Get a feel for what your player wants to do, and suggest feats that will help that and make it more fun.

Really, D&D only gets complicated when you add in all the options. Strip away the confusing ones - preparing spells every day is a big one - and most people will be okay. But above all, I would make it clear, even if it's just a one-sentence mention, that you're streamlining the rules, since the full 3.5 is vast and complicated. Something as simple as "I've stripped out the most complicated parts; We can ease those back in once you've got the basics, if you like" will go a long way.

[Kylarra]

That does bring the question of: are you trying to streamline the rules in order to eventually lead to playing 3.X in its full misshapen glory, or are you just trying to make a game along similar lines to play with non-gamer friends?

[Rixx]

I'd say True20 works as a stripped down version of D&D 3.5.

If you wanted a literal stripped down version, down to its barest components, I'd go with MicroLite20: http://www.microlite20.net/

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

That does bring the question of: are you trying to streamline the rules in order to eventually lead to playing 3.X in its full misshapen glory, or are you just trying to make a game along similar lines to play with non-gamer friends?

I want a stripped down version of 3.5 which I would slowly expand on until we were playing the full thing.

[Quietus]

I want a stripped down version of 3.5 which I would slowly expand on until we were playing the full thing.

Then I heavily recommend my suggestion above - all it is, is the removal of the more fiddly rules. Preparing spells per day is frustrating when you haven't had a chance to see which ones are worth preparing, so everyone is a spontaneous caster. The other classes are mostly variations on "I hit things and maybe use skills", with one or two other options. Starting at first to third level is the best bet, so you don't inundate them with choices. And then if they're interested in learning more, you aren't changing rules, you're just adding them.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

I think Quietas pretty much hit the nail on the head. I'd just add making some near complete character sheets for them. Select Feats, gear them and select skills for simplicity sake just max all skills. Have the players roll stats and put stat bonuses where they belong this will give them some ownership of the characters and start them on the road to familiarity with their character sheets and the game system. At this point you should also let them pick a skills from their int mod (just prepick their skills from their class).

[Doc Roc]

I want a stripped down version of 3.5 which I would slowly expand on until we were playing the full thing.

Microlite20 isn't terrible, though I don't like it that much, and it basically aims to be exactly this. It's solid enough, probably. I'm not really sure how much you could strip from d20 easily, this is an interesting question. Mind if I think on it some?

[Darth Stabber]

The generic class variant from unearthed arcana strips a ton out of the system. As opposed to most of UA, which increases complexity rather than reducing it.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

The generic class variant from unearthed arcana strips a ton out of the system. As opposed to most of UA, which increases complexity rather than reducing it.

Thanks. I shall do that.

[Godskook]

Start them all as 6 HD warriors. Treat them as 3rd level characters on your side of the screen. Roleplay them into other classes:

-Guy one wants to make a deal with the fey? Warlock
-Guy two wants to study arcana? Wizard, Warmage, or Factotum
-Guy three spends all his time at the thieve's guild? Rogue, Scout, or Factotum

etc, etc.

Also, it doesn't matter how many new systems are introduced to the players, provided each player only has to deal with one. Party tank doesn't need to learn spellcasting, while the caster doesn't need to really bother with grappling rules(You lose them unless you have FoM, k?)

[cfalcon]

Give 2ed a try :P

[Coidzor]

A very pared down d20 system derived from 3.5 is microlite d20 (http://arthur.jfmi.net/m20/). That might be too pared down though.

The old site it originally appeared on seems to have died and this is the best I could come up with since the apparent successor site is not offering any content.

You might consider trying out something along the lines of the Wizard's Amulet (http://www.necromancergames.com/freestuff.html)though as well.

[Viktyr Gehrig]

I'm looking to play a greatly stripped down game of D&D 3.5 with some non-gamer friends of mine, and I'm wondering how I could cut the rules set in half.

The biggest problem with 3.X isn't really the combat rules, it's the exception based ruleset. Essentially, the majority of feats, class abilities, and spells involve their own subsystem that modifies how combat and skill checks normally function. (Hence, all the "Normal:" lines on feats.) Pathfinder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/) makes the combat maneuvers a lot easier to manage, and there's not a lot you can do about spells, so what you need to kill are feats and class features.

Start here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm) and here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/alternativeSkillSystems.htm), but choose everything like class skill lists and saving throws in advance and ditch the bonus feats. Give the Warrior +1 attack/+2 damage at 1st and every 5th level. Give the Expert Sneak Attack and Trapfinding. Split the Spellcaster into Mage, Cleric and Druid, with their respective spell lists. Give the Mage +1 extra known spell and spell per day per level. Give the Cleric lay on hands (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin#TOC-Lay-On-Hands-Su-)/mercies (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin#TOC-Mercy-Su-) and channel energy (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric#channel-energy), plus the cure spells for free. Give the Druid an animal companion, wild empathy, woodland stride, and trackless step, and the summon nature's ally spells for free.

Then, when they've got a few levels under their belt and they're getting the hang of the system, introduce Prestige Classes, including these (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm) and the ones in the DMG.

[Taelas]

Give 2ed a try :P

2nd Edition was not simpler than 3rd, not by a long shot. Quite aside from complicated, confusing and counter-intuitive rules like AC and THAC0, you had to look up each ability score on a table and write down multiple different scores derived from each of them.

Each class also had their own XP table, which, again, leads to confusion.

[fryplink]

Citizen, have you considered playing paranoia? paranoia is fun, other games are not fun. play paranoia.


In all seriousness, it's rules systems is brain dead easy, though it's not even close to 3.5. If you want 3.5 paired down, use only core, you can't really take out things like flanking and grappling (sundering isn't a big deal tho) because too many classes rely on those abilities to trigger their own (no flanking takes away a lot of rogue effectiveness)

Don't listen to the guy who suggested 2e. Its harder than hammers.

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Don't listen to the guy who suggested 2e. Its harder than hammers.

It's idiosyncratic, but it's not like 3.X being chock full of options that only exist to punish you for being stupid. And if you want to play a specific kind of character, you actually get to play that specific kind of character at 1st level.

That said, I wouldn't recommend it for newbies. If someone wanted to use an old school game to break people in, I'd suggest they look at Dark Dungeons (http://darkdungeonsblog.wordpress.com/) or one of the other Classic D&D retroclones. Easier to pick up and play and there's less to unlearn later.

[danzibr]

Hmm, I've actually thought about this a fair amount. Assuming you've played a good bit of board games, I'd suggest the following:

No grappling
No bull rushing
No sundering
No attacks of opportunity (well, maybe)
Yes flanking
Don't have a ton of monsters in an encounter (slows things down)
Just give useful items and money (not junk they have to vendor, too much bookkeeping)
No weight limit
No people controlling anything other than their own character (and maybe animal companion, familiar, special mount)
Don't mess with handle animal, just let them use their animal
No tricky feats (use judgment)
Stick to core books

And uhh, that should simplify things.