No love for the Favored Soul?

[sengmeng]

Favored Souls seem to have the same problem as other spontaneous casters with Quickened spells (not being able to do it), but a feat exists to help Arcane spellcasters overcome that (Arcane Preparation).

So, why is the Favored Soul the red-headed stepchild of casters?

[Ernir]

There was a recent thread on the merits of the Favored Soul (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196535) and the other divine casters. A few tricks were mentioned.

There is a Feat in Complete Mage that addresses the Metamagic issue, Rapid Metamagic.

But yes, if you compare the Favored Soul to the Cleric, it's more or less its stupid little brother. Aside from paying the high price of delayed spell level access and a limited number of spells known for its increased number of spells/day and spontaneous casting, it loses Domain access, Turn/Rebuke Undead, the class skill list, and several powerful ACFs for a bunch of more or less random class features with little optimization potential. And it uses two casting stats, which makes it difficult to use spells that rely on save DCs.

It's still a very powerful class.

So, why is the Favored Soul the red-headed stepchild of casters?
Classes in 3.5 D&D were not created equal. Simple and sad as that, really.

[sengmeng]

My interest in the favored soul is because I'm thinking of making a Mystic Theurge out of a FS and Sorcerer: Spontanius Singlestatter. Despite Cha being his highest stat, I think he would be universally hated...

[Bang!]

Well, someone has to favor him...

Anyway, the Favored Soul doesn't get a whole lot of love because there's not really anything there to love. It's a repackaged Sorcerer with a few abilities that don't do anything interesting.

I mean, the wings are nice, but flight is cheap. Exemplars of Evil sweetens the deal a bit with claws and a bite, but that's still not anything a cleric or sorcerer couldn't scrounge already.

The bigger question is: why do you care whether the internet is in love with the words you write on the little line that says "class"?

EDIT:
Rapid Metamagic is in Complete Mage. It's available before you'd be able to quicken anyway.

[HunterOfJello]

Sorcerers are often loved because they're fun spontaneous blasters. Favored Souls don't have the same spell list to be throwing fireballs around all the time.

FS also lack a number of the strong class features that the Cleric possesses. He loses out on Domain abilities, turning/rebuking, heavy armor and more. A FS can be a fun class to play, but it's a very focused class that often isn't the best choice for most of the roles people seek out.

[sengmeng]

The bigger question is: why do you care whether the internet is in love with the words you write on the little line that says "class"?

I don't care if it gives you the warm fuzzies, per se, but I was wondering about people's reactions.

[tiercel]

Compare Spirit Shaman, which ostensibly is to Druid what Favored Soul is to Cleric. The difference is that SS has neat flavor, some actually kind of cool and consistent abilities, not to mention a wacky spellcaster mechanic that has even fewer spells known per day, but lets you swap out your limited "sorcerer spells known" every day, sort of a hybrid spellcasting.

I don't think anyone would argue SS is as "strong", overall, as Druid in generic adventuring circumstances -- but there are plenty of valid reasons (both fluff and crunch) to consider playing one, things that make it fairly distinct from other classes. Favored Soul on the other hand doesn't have much of it's own flavor or mechanics, making it feel much more like "Cleric minus."

[Thurbane]

But yes, if you compare the Favored Soul to the Cleric, it's more or less its stupid little brother.
Indeed. I find the Favored Soul is better when compared to a Sorcerer. Better HD, can cast in in armor, more spell known...

Of course, like the Sorceror, the key is to PrC out as soon as possible. I find Human Paragon and/or Ruathar great for FS, to grab required skills to slip into divine PrCs. Knight of the Raven is pretty good, too, for a divine gish.

[TOZ]

I like the Favored Soul for making the Healer class redundant. I love the idea of the Healer class, but it really is weak.

[Zaq]

The Favored Soul is perhaps my favorite example of the need for perspective.

It's really easy to focus on the bad parts of FS. I've been guilty of this myself. You're spontaneous, so you have to jump through hoops because someone at WotC doesn't like spontaneous casters (and you get spells a level later). You're one of the very few divine casters who doesn't know their entire list. You don't get Turn Undead or domains. You need an obscure online article to get K:Religion in-class, which makes getting into PrCs tricky at best. You get class features, but they tend to be scattered and without focus. You have split-stat casting. Poor, poor Favored Souls. Who would ever want to play one?

They're still primary casters with 9th-level spells with nearly full (splatbook-supported) access to one of the big three lists. Sure, it's my personal least favorite of the big three lists, but it's still damn powerful. Their defenses are great, especially at low levels (armor might not mean much at 12th level, but at 3rd? I'm happy to strap on a breastplate and a shield, especially with three good saves), energy resistance comes up more often than you might think, and, oh yeah, again, they have full casting, up to and including 9th level spells.

Yes, the Cleric is better in damn near every way. Does that mean that a Favored Soul shouldn't even bother? Hell no. Even with a Cleric in the same party, the FS is a perfectly viable party member who's only going to feel upstaged if they let themselves be (or if the Cleric is really pulling out all the stops, but you know, Clerics).

Yes, they have pale skin from constantly standing in the Cleric's shadow. The comparisons are unavoidable, and the FS always comes up short. But then you turn the page and get to the Shugenja, who has 9th level spells but doesn't like to admit it. Or you look across the table at your buddy playing a Ranger. Or whatever. The FS is a perfectly strong and useful class.

As I said, perspective.

[Thurbane]

<excellent points>
Very well said. I concur 100%.