(3.5) The Improved Gloves of Endless Javelins (Magic Item) [PEACH]

[Lyndworm]

After a discussion with a DM or two, it came up that I should likely stat out these items I'd been requesting. So, without further adieu I give you:


Gloves of Endless Javelins, Improved

Price: Varies
Body Slot: Hands
Activation One round (concentration), and/or Free (command)
Weight: -

These gloves function as the magic item gloves of endless javelins (MiC, p194), except that the javelins created aren't of +1 quality. Instead, they may be enchanted as magic weapons and spontaneously create up to a +5 javelin with up to +5 worth of weapon properties applied. For example, a pair of improved gloves of endless javelins (+6) might create a +3 deadly precision, precise javelin. If the gloves are rigid, then bonuses may be added but their existing bonuses may never be changed (just like with a regular weapon).

If the gloves are flexible, then bonuses may be added (like with a regular weapon) but they have another ability; three times per day a pair of flexible gloves may have it's bonuses altered so long as it's effective enhancement bonus does not exceed the limit with which it was purchased. For example, by spending an entire round concentrating you can change a pair of improved gloves of endless javelins (+6) that produce +3 deadly precision, precise javelins to produce +4 bane, distance javelins. This change takes place at the beginning of your next turn.

When a pair of improved gloves of endless javelins are worn, the wearer instantly know what sort of javelins will be produced.

The table below shows more detailed information:

{table=head]Enhancement | Rigid Price | Flexible Price
+2 Equivalent | 18,000gp | 21,600gp
+3 Equivalent | 33,000gp | 39,600gp
+4 Equivalent | 52,000gp | 62,400gp
+5 Equivalent | 75,000gp | 90,000gp
+6 Equivalent | 102,000gp | 122,400gp
+7 Equivalent | 133,000gp | 159,600gp
+8 Equivalent | 168,000gp | 201,600gp
+9 Equivalent | 207,000gp | 248,400gp
+10 Equivalent | 250,000gp | 300,000gp[/table]



Thoughts, comments?

Changelog:
Original Post 5/1/2011
Prices modified 5/1/2011
Old prices below:
{table=head]Enhancement | Price
+2 Equivalent | 13,000gp
+3 Equivalent | 25,000gp
+4 Equivalent | 37,000gp
+5 Equivalent | 55,000gp
+6 Equivalent | 77,000gp
+7 Equivalent | 103,000gp
+8 Equivalent | 133,000gp
+9 Equivalent | 167,000gp
+10 Equivalent | 205,000gp[/table]Vague wording altered 5/2/2011
Prices modified again 5/2/2011
Old prices below:
{table=head]Enhancement | Price
+2 Equivalent | 22,000gp
+3 Equivalent | 45,000gp
+4 Equivalent | 76,000gp
+5 Equivalent | 115,000gp
+6 Equivalent | 162,000gp
+7 Equivalent | 217,000gp
+8 Equivalent | 280,000gp
+9 Equivalent | 351,000gp
+10 Equivalent | 430,000gp[/table]Flexible gloves added 5/2/2011
Flexible prices changed 5/2/2011
Old prices below:
{table=head]Enhancement | Flexible Price
+2 Equivalent | 20,700gp
+3 Equivalent | 37,950gp
+4 Equivalent | 59,800gp
+5 Equivalent | 86,250gp
+6 Equivalent | 117,300gp
+7 Equivalent | 152,950gp
+8 Equivalent | 193,200gp
+9 Equivalent | 238,050gp
+10 Equivalent | 287,500gp[/table]

[Silva Stormrage]

Very cool idea but I would think its slightly cheap, expensive wise. The ability to rearrange it's enchantment means it always is bane (Creature Your Fighting) and has the energy type (Whatever they are vulnerable to). Otherwise cool idea. Might make using javelins actually viable.

[NineThePuma]

I think you're supposed to enchant them 'as normal' and the javelins are made that way, dude...

[ragingrage]

Might want to make the wording a bit clearer. Is it meant that you can change the enchantment of each javelin to a different thing? Or are you supposed to designate what the enchantment of each javelin will be when you buy the gloves?

or maybe you could combine the two, by allowing the owner to switch the enchantment on the gloves once a day/week?

[jvluso]

Where are you getting the prices from? Most of seem like price of one javelin created + 5000, but the +3 gloves would cost 23,000. IMHO this price formula is a bit cheep, as the gloves would become the characters main item, rather than the backup item they currently are.

Also, the example should be changed: wounding is not a ranged weapon property, and javelins are ranged weapons.

[Lyndworm]

Very cool idea but I would think its slightly cheap, expensive wise. The ability to rearrange it's enchantment means it always is bane (Creature Your Fighting) and has the energy type (Whatever they are vulnerable to). Otherwise cool idea. Might make using javelins actually viable.
I think you're supposed to enchant them 'as normal' and the javelins are made that way, dude...
Puma has it right, on this one. The ability was supposed to remain permanent.


Might want to make the wording a bit clearer. Is it meant that you can change the enchantment of each javelin to a different thing? Or are you supposed to designate what the enchantment of each javelin will be when you buy the gloves?
As I said just above, the ability was supposed to be permanent.


or maybe you could combine the two, by allowing the owner to switch the enchantment on the gloves once a day/week?
That's an idea that had occurred to me, but I was afraid that it would make the item a tad too powerful. If anyone has any suggestions on how to balance such a feature with price, that would be appreciated. Maybe a 15% increase?


Where are you getting the prices from? Most of seem like price of one javelin created + 5000, but the +3 gloves would cost 23,000. IMHO this price formula is a bit cheep, as the gloves would become the characters main item, rather than the backup item they currently are.
You're right on all counts, and I have now figured out new prices. The formula is magic weapon cost x2, +3,000 per bonus.


Also, the example should be changed: wounding is not a ranged weapon property, and javelins are ranged weapons.
Once again, you are correct. My mistake, on that one. For some reason I thought that Wounding was universal.

[jguy]

Silva makes a good point. The first thing you would do is pick Bane for whatever you are fighting so suddenly you are chucking +2 Greatswords strapped to the Javelins. Perhaps make a note that Bane cannot be used for these?

[NineThePuma]

Guys, despite the wording being vague, there is NO ABILITY TO CHANGE THE ENCHANTMENTS BUILT IN.

[Lyndworm]

Silva makes a good point. The first thing you would do is pick Bane for whatever you are fighting so suddenly you are chucking +2 Greatswords strapped to the Javelins. Perhaps make a note that Bane cannot be used for these?
I'm not sure where you guys are getting this from, especially after I specifically stated otherwise.


Guys, despite the wording being vague, there is NO ABILITY TO CHANGE THE ENCHANTMENTS BUILT IN.
Once again, Puma has it right. I've cleared up the wording (I think). Hopefully, the issue is resolved now.



Any word on the price? I'm afraid that it might be too expensive now, especially the higher bonuses.

[Tacitus]

Why don't you just price them as though the bonus was one higher with maybe a bit more added on? This is essentially a Returning Javelin that instead returns as fast as you can throw them and being broken doesn't hurt the weapon because you just make a new one. I'd say Priced as a Returning built in plus 8000, but still allow +5 and +5 Properties.

So +2 effective would cost 26000gp, +3 would be 40,000gp, etc

Also, is the character these are intended for a goblin cleric? Please say yes.

[Lyndworm]

Why don't you just price them as though the bonus was one higher with maybe a bit more added on? This is essentially a Returning Javelin that instead returns as fast as you can throw them and being broken doesn't hurt the weapon because you just make a new one. I'd say Priced as a Returning built in plus 8000, but still allow +5 and +5 Properties.

So +2 effective would cost 26000gp, +3 would be 40,000gp, etc
That's a good price range, but I was trying to price it consistently with the original gloves of endless javelins. Your system would be abandoning the formula entirely, I'm afraid.


Also, is the character these are intended for a goblin cleric? Please say yes.
You can't apply the splitting property to thrown weapons. :smallfrown:

[Tacitus]

True, but how exactly did you figure the price for them yourself? If I was following the formula for the gloves I'd honestly call the gloves as the Returning included with a -1000gp adhoc discount because they only last for the very shortest amount of time and therefore can't be used to prop doors or pry open monster mouths.

[Lyndworm]

True, but how exactly did you figure the price for them yourself?
Well... I didn't. The price can be determined in many ways, and I was using magic weapon cost x2 +3,000 per effective enhancement bonus. For a +1 that works out to 2,000 x2 = 4,000 + 3,000 = 7,000gp, the same as the basic item. For a +2 it's 8,000 x2 = 16,000 + 6,000 = 22,000gp. It's fairly simple, but the price increases very quickly.


If I was following the formula for the gloves I'd honestly call the gloves as the Returning included with a -1000gp adhoc discount because they only last for the very shortest amount of time and therefore can't be used to prop doors or pry open monster mouths.
In some ways they're more powerful than returning weapons because of the Free action respawn and because they're made of Force.

Assuming I were to use your prices, what would the exact formula be? I don't quite understand the example you gave; I just prefer the numbers it gives.

[Tacitus]

Sorry, let me throw together some algebra.

X=Effective Bonus of the Javelins

The Not as Good As a Stick Method:
[(X+1)^2]*2000gp-1000gp

The Effective Indestructible Method:
[(X+1)^2]*2000gp+8000gp
This method does not follow any semblance of the original formula

Scaling Utility Multiplier Drill Breaker!
[(X^2)*2000gp]*2+(X*3000gp)

At a +10 effective bonus this yields, in order
241000gp
250000gp
430000gp

So, a fairly large price disparity. Lets see what else we can come up with.
[(X^2)*2000gp]+(X*5000gp)

Thats 7000gp for a +1 and 250,000gp for a +10 effective. Odd, it has the same price as my Bonus Plus One and then add 8000 method. Thats.... damned amusing.

[Lyndworm]

So, a fairly large price disparity. Lets see what else we can come up with.
[(X^2)*2000gp]+(X*5000gp)

Thats 7000gp for a +1 and 250,000gp for a +10 effective. Odd, it has the same price as my Bonus Plus One and then add 8000 method. Thats.... damned amusing.
It also seems fairly elegant... Do you mind if I straight up jack it?

[Tacitus]

Well the whole point of presenting it was for the purpose of furthering completion of the item, so no, I don't mind. XP

[Lyndworm]

I was fairly certain that I knew your answer, but it seemed rude not to ask.

Anyhoo, prices updated. I've also add flexible gloves that can be altered 1/day. Any thoughts?

[jojolagger]

Anyhoo, prices updated. I've also add flexible gloves that can be altered 1/day. Any thoughts?

I'd probably boost the price a bit more, and make it something like "As an action taking 1 round (not 1 full round action, but a 1 round action, like summon monster spells), you may alter the bonuses of the gloves, for 1+CHA modifier rounds.
and remove or boost the daily limit.
It let's you adjust on the fly, but still costs you enough time to be annoying in combat.

[Lyndworm]

I'd probably boost the price a bit more, and make it something like "As an action taking 1 round (not 1 full round action, but a 1 round action, like summon monster spells), you may alter the bonuses of the gloves, for 1+CHA modifier rounds.
and remove or boost the daily limit.
It let's you adjust on the fly, but still costs you enough time to be annoying in combat.
I actually really like the One Round alteration thing, that's a good idea. I'm not a big fan of the 1+Cha thing; it's a little too limiting, I think. If I'm paying extra to be able to change it, I want it to last for a while. I'll do that and boost the price a little bit.

[ragingrage]

It currently does not say how long the change (when one uses the power of the flexible gloves) lasts. 2d4 rounds, maybe?

[Lyndworm]

That's because the change is permanent until changed again. I thought that was obvious, but I may be a little too close to the project. Do you feel that I should clarify?

[Veyr]

I had assumed that was how it worked, myself. Seems reasonable to me.

[jojolagger]

One round for the whole Bonus seems a bit too fast. Maybe make it 1 round per +1 bonus? Stops it being totally focused to kill one person as fast as possible after a single round.

[Veyr]

1 round is a massive amount of time in combat.

[Lyndworm]

I feel like if I'm going to limit how quickly it can be changed to that extant, I'd have to remove (or increase) the daily limitation.

Does anyone else agree, disagree, or otherwise have an opinion on the matter?

[NineThePuma]

If you're paying that much extra gold for it to be flexible, it should be that flexible.

[jojolagger]

I feel like if I'm going to limit how quickly it can be changed to that extant, I'd have to remove (or increase) the daily limitation.

Does anyone else agree, disagree, or otherwise have an opinion on the matter?

I'd remove or increase the daily limit. change 1/day isn't very flexible.

[Lyndworm]

It's 3/day right now, though.

[Lyndworm]

Five days with no posts... Tiny bump?

[Lyndworm]

It's been nearly two weeks without any replies, so I feel safe giving this a tiny bump. Any thoughts?

[Benly]

It's been nearly two weeks without any replies, so I feel safe giving this a tiny bump. Any thoughts?

For my part, I'm just wondering what kind of pricing change I'd want to use to make one for daggers.

[Lyndworm]

I'd let a player use theses gloves, but make daggers (only), at the exact same price. They don't do quite as much damage as javelins (average of 1 point less), but they have quite a few other advantages (such as no penalty in melee and the Palm Throw trick shot from Master Thrower).