Psionics? (3.5)

[BIGMamaSloth]

I had a few questions about psionics as I've never used them or read there rules before. I was intrigued by them because the fluff sounded cool but was told by my group that the system was really complicated and hard to learn and pretty much ends up being spells under another name. Is this true? what books should I get if I wanted to use psionics?

[Wings of Peace]

I had a few questions about psionics as I've never used them or read there rules before. I was intrigued by them because the fluff sounded cool but was told by my group that the system was really complicated and hard to learn and pretty much ends up being spells under another name. Is this true? what books should I get if I wanted to use psionics?

It's not that complicated, if anything I personally find it simpler since it's a point based system. As for whether or not it's just magic under a different name, anything that alters reality is basically magic it doesn't mean it's not cool.

[under_score]

Honestly, psionics isn't that complicated. Especially if you've spent anytime playing video games with magic. Your power point reserve (that which fuels your powers), is basically a bunch of mana.

While many powers are basically psionic versions of certain spells (and so named), there are enough different and interesting powers (like time hop) and some fantastically potent powers (like hyper cognition) to make psionics quite worth while. Also, some powers are simply better than the magic equivalents (dominate, I believe, is one of these). Many powers are more versatile than your average spell, which helps account for the limited number you can learn (and there is also a rule that enables you to research new powers). Since you can augment your powers (spend more power points on them to make them better), the low-mid powers are often some of the best.

All said and done, I think psionics can be a lot more fun than traditional casting. Sure, a well built wizard is still better, but so what? And even then, a well built psion can hold his own with a well opted party.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Have you played a CRPG where you had mana points? Did you get it? If yes, congratulations you know the basics of the Psionics systems.

To play it you need Expanded Psionics Handbook (the 3.5 version, 3.0 Psioncs is a horrible mess) Or you could check the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/) under Psionics rule.

[Veyr]

And let's just be clear: you cannot spend more power points on any one thing than your Manifester Level.

This is the single most important rule in Psionics. Failure to heed it can turn the system into a broken mess. There are (two) specific exceptions to the rule (Wilder's Wild Surge class feature and the Overchannel feat), but both of these only raise the limit by a specific amount, and have specific risks/rewards.

[Dusk Eclipse]

And let's just be clear: you cannot spend more power points on any one thing than your Manifester Level.

This is the single most important rule in Psionics. Failure to heed it can turn the system into a broken mess. There are (two) specific exceptions to the rule (Wilder's Wild Surge class feature and the Overchannel feat), but both of these only raise the limit by a specific amount, and have specific risks/rewards.

Oh right, yes Veyr is correct; that is the MOST IMPORTANT RULE for Psionics, so important it bears repeating.

You cannot spend more power points on any given manifestation than your Manifester level

[under_score]

Or you take the feat Improved Overchannel (Complete Psion 157). You manifest Timeless Body (perhaps as schismed action, since you cannot quicken Timeless Body), and then you WIN AT EVERYTHING.

[erikun]

You are going to spend 17 PP a round, every round, and expect not to tap dry after a minute? :smallconfused: (ignoring broken infinite PP cheese, of course)

Also, you would need to be 23rd level before you could do something like that. (again, ignoring practiced manifester cheese)

[DeltaEmil]

3.5 psionics is not that complicated. It's almost like magic in video and computer games, where you spend points to cast a spell (or manifest a power, as it is called in D&D).
It was 3.0 psionics which was rather difficult, and furthermore had psionic combat, which was rather a drag.

[Moose Man]

Persist Timeless Body. You win.

[Otherworld Odd]

I don't think psionics are complicated at all. I find them extremely fun and easy. Like really easy and REALLY fun.

[Cog]

Persist Timeless Body. You win.
And you're getting Persistent Power from which book again?

[Yora]

I think this post by Peregrine (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10635999&postcount=2) is an excelent summary and explaination how psionics work.
After reading that, you should be able to open the SRD and be able to play psionic chracters.

[Hirax]

Psionics is both easier and more intuitive than Vancian casting (wizards, sorcerers, etc). Also, augmenting powers uses a far superior system than metamagic. In my opinion on all counts, of course.

[Master_Rahl22]

Expanded Psionics Handbook (or just use the SRD) are what you want to get into Psionics as a system. Others have posted very useful info about it. You could also pick up Complete Psionics, but it was horribly edited and nerfs several powers unnecessarily. If you do get CPsi, just use it for new content like the Ardent, new powers, and new feats and ignore the power nerfs.

[Dusk Eclipse]

And you're getting Persistent Power from which book again?

IIRC Persist Power is in the 3.0 Psionics Handbook and as the feat was never updated, it is technically legal.

Also there is Persist Power in Hyperconcious, which needs you to mantain your psionic focus as long as you want the power to last.

[Prime32]

Of note, the Pathfinder version of 3.5's psionic system (Psionics Unleashed (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/)) was done by Dreamscarred Press (http://dsp-d20-srd.wikidot.com/). Who are widely regarded as the only third-party publisher to understand the rules better than their creators. (I've seen groups with blanket bans on all third-party material let in DSP because "they don't count")

In other words, it's awesome.

[Essence_of_War]

I like the psionics system way better than the regular magic system.

The Psion, Psychic warrior, Ardent, and Wilder are all absolutely wonderful and if I had a choice between them and the Fighter/Paladin, Wizard, Sorcerer, Druid/Cleric I would snap-keep the former.

[faceroll]

There are some really cool psionic powers. Some are similar to spells, but their mechanics make them feel and act different. And some aren't mimic'd by any spell, like Quintessence or Control Light.


Persist Timeless Body. You win.

Hardly. You can't fly, teleport, turn invisible, swim, go to other planes. You're forcing yourself to be a mundane in a very, very magical world. Not worth it.

Even if you could find a source for Persistent Power, which isn't in 1st party 3.5 RAW.

[classy one]

Of note, the Pathfinder version of 3.5's psionic system (Psionics Unleashed (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/)) was done by Dreamscarred Press (http://dsp-d20-srd.wikidot.com/). Who are widely regarded as the only third-party publisher to understand the rules better than their creators. (I've seen groups with blanket bans on all third-party material let in DSP because "they don't count")

In other words, it's awesome.

Considering that Burce Cordell wrote both XPH and Dreamscarred Press' Hyperconcious (and CPsi) I'd say his knowledge of psionic rules, by definition, he knows the rules just as well as the creator (because he is the creator).

Psionics is awesome. Plain and simple. Many powers stay relavant in higher levels thanks to augmentations and you get more higher level manifesting than a caster thanks to using a point system rather than slots.

[Maryring]

Or you take the feat Improved Overchannel (Complete Psion 157). You manifest Timeless Body (perhaps as schismed action, since you cannot quicken Timeless Body), and then you WIN AT EVERYTHING.

No. That's Brawndo.

Which, by the way, makes you win at yelling. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tbxq0IDqD04).

[under_score]

No. That's Brawndo.

A poor man's Powerthirst.

Edit: But still a viable energy solution. :smallwink:

[Greenish]

IIRC Persist Power is in the 3.0 Psionics Handbook and as the feat was never updated, it is technically legal.Didn't EPH replace PsiH completely? I should think so, given that they're two different systems.

[Lateral]

Expanded Psionics Handbook (or just use the SRD) are what you want to get into Psionics as a system. Others have posted very useful info about it. You could also pick up Complete Psionics, but it was horribly edited and nerfs several powers unnecessarily. If you do get CPsi, just use it for new content like the Ardent, new powers, and new feats and ignore the power nerfs.

Well, most of the power nerfs. There are a couple ones that you should use, since they actually make sense. (The Energy Missile and Energy Stun nerfs come to mind.)

[Prime32]

The psionics system is more like magic as it is usually depicted than the wizard and sorcerer classes anyway.


Considering that Burce Cordell wrote both XPH and Dreamscarred Press' Hyperconcious (and CPsi) I'd say his knowledge of psionic rules, by definition, he knows the rules just as well as the creator (because he is the creator).I knew he wrote Hyperconscious, but I didn't think he was a member of Dreamscarred Press. :smallconfused:

[AslanCross]

3.5 Psionics is quite simple. You gain points every day and spend them as you fit on the powers you know. Many powers can be augmented (you can increase their DC, increase their duration, etc) by spending more power points, only that in every single manifestation of a power you cannot spend more than your manifester level. Most damage dealing powers don't scale with level; you have to augment them to boost their damage.

That's it, basically. It's much simpler than the core Vancian casting, where you need to prepare X spells or can cast X spells per day, and you need to have these components, etc.

3.0 Psionics had that whole Psychic Combat (Defense/attack modes) that was really confusing and not rewarding despite that.

Now is it magic by another name? Yeah, I guess. Does it add a lot to a game? Yes.

It's totally worth it.

EDIT: You only need the SRD for psionics, but you can also use Dreamscarred Press's psionics for Pathfinder, which is all OGC. They also made the Soulknife totally awesome.

[Draz74]

3.5 Psionics is quite simple. You gain points every day and spend them as you fit on the powers you know. Many powers can be augmented (you can increase their DC, increase their duration, etc) by spending more power points, only that in every single manifestation of a power you cannot spend more than your manifester level. Most damage dealing powers don't scale with level; you have to augment them to boost their damage.

That's it, basically. It's much simpler than the core Vancian casting, where you need to prepare X spells or can cast X spells per day, and you need to have these components, etc.

Well, there's also the Psionic Focus stuff. I think that tends to confuse a lot of people who have trouble at first figuring out how it fits into the power-manifesting process. (Hint: it mostly doesn't, unless you're using Metapsionics feats.)

But that part, too, is worthwhile in my book. In fact, I wish a lot more of the game was powered by a mechanic similar to Psionic Focus. My homebrew is ...

[AslanCross]

Well, that's true. I had to look around a lot to see how exactly a character could get into Psionic Focus the first time I read through the psionic rules. Once you get it though, it's pretty straightforward.

[Ernir]

I think the psionic system is good enough for me to have switched out the vancian mechanics for it. (See sig.)