14th level cleric with about 80k gold. What should I buy?

[shadmere]

Like I said, 14th level cleric/bone knight, and I've got about 80k to spend. Currently I've got:

Amulet of natural armor +2
Cloak of charisma +4
Full plate (bone armor) +3
Animated shield +1
Adamantine greatsword +4
Ghost touch bastard sword +2
Nightstick
Some reliquary that gives me 3 turn attempts (I forget the name of it)
2 rings of counterspell
A helmet that gives darkvision

I use DMM persist with things like Divine Power and Channeled Divine Shield to give me extra strength and DR, and persist Recitation and Righteous Wrath of the Faithful to help the whole party. I also persist spells (that I can't remember the names of, off-hand) that give me flight and help pump my AC to 35. My strength is currently at 24, when I'm all spelled up.

So far I'm thinking of upgrading my armor and shield for more AC and maybe buying a Manual of Gainful Exercise +2. There's also a relatively cheap Ioun stone that would give me an extra point of AC. I would just barely be able to afford these, if I was able to find another few grand of gold. (I'm able to buy at 92.5% market price.)

Is that a good idea, or am I overlooking something that would be significantly better?

Thanks. :smallsmile:

Oh, edit: I also took Craft Contingent Spell at 12, and haven't really sunk anything into it yet. Would it be better to spend money on that than equipment?

[Taelas]

You can use DMM Persist with greater magic weapon and magic vestments to save money -- means you'll never have to get more than +1 enhancements on your weapons and armor.

Spend it on Cha or Wis enhancement books instead.

[Firechanter]

I don't know what Bone Armour is good for, but I'd just buy him a nonmagical Mithral Fullplate and, as Szar said, put Magic Vestment on it. Likewise for the weapon, no higher than +1.

However! DMM Persist on GMW and Magic Vestment is counterproductive. By default these spells already last 14 hours per casting at your level, which should be enough for one day of adventuring. A simple +1 spell level Extend makes that 28 hours, if you feel it's absolutely necessary, so that's both cheaper and longer than Persisting them.

You don't need a helmet that gives Darkvision. If you want Darkvision now and then, cast a level 2 spell. (I hope it is on the Cleric list and I'm not burning my mouth.) Alternatively, cast Light. If Light is not enough, cast Daylight.

With the money saved, buy a Karma bead. Iirc that costs 20K. Activate it before you cast your daily buffs, and each of these buffs will have higher caster level and, if not persisted, longer duration. This is considered pretty much a must-have for any cleric.

Don't buy Tomes or Manuals for your prime stat now, it's a waste of money in the long run because they don't stack. I'd only buy a +1 here or there to round up any odd stats you may have from char creation, and otherwise save up to buy a +5 Wisdom tome around level 19 or 20.

Instead, buy a +4 Wisdom Periapt. You can combine this with your ammy of natural armour without price multiplier, as per MIC's item upgrade rules. (In short, ability enhancements never count when determining multipliers for additional properties.)

On a final note, how many Turn attempts do you get per day? Each DMM Persist eats 7 Turns; even with Extra Turning you can probably only persist 2 per day without nightstick stacking nonsense.

[Keld Denar]

No +Con items. You should remedy this. Immediately.

Also, Greater Ring of Counterspells > Ring of Counterspells. Check the MIC.

[Taelas]

Right, that was a brain-fart. Forgot they already lasted that long. Extend's enough.

[Eldariel]

You definitely want:
- Beads of Karma [DMG; Strand of Prayer Beads]; you really want one for your buff suite
- Orange Prism Ioun Stone [DMG]; +1 CL for great justice

Combined, these two things give you +4 armor and weapons (+5 in a level) for 19 hours a day, at CL 19 meaning enemy dispels are highly unlikely to hit. You could then cast Adept Spirit [Magic of Incarnum] to buff your caster level further by +1, getting you to the elusive CL 20.

Then you'd probably want Ring of Enduring Arcana [Complete Mage] to reduce the impact of dispels even further (at this point you caster level against Dispels is 24), and Ring of Spell-Battle [Magic Item Compendium] to protect yourself against some more difficult spells like Disjunction (also, use Battlemagic Perception [Heroes of Battle] to counter those).

Metamagic Rod of Chain Spell for Magic Vestment and Greater Magic Weapon for all your allies' armor and equipment could also be good. +5 weapons and armor for everybody. Some Pearls of Power to reuse your slots (even Domain) and some such could also really help. And definitely Metamagic Rod of Quicken once possible.

Oh, and Con and Wis and Str are prolly the 3 first stats you wanna pump (with Cha for turns). But you can do that with spells, too. So outside inherent boosts (bit early for those, really; get Wis first once you do, tho), I'd avoid stat boosters simply on the back of them being redundant.


Amulet of Natural Armor is pretty poor; there are domain-spells granting Natural Armor and even some Cleric-spells (Righteous Might comes with +2 enhancement bonus to Natural Armor, for example).

You don't really need Ghost Touch on your weapon either since you can get Ghost Touch with various spells. Adamantine Greatsword is more than enough.

Could you sell some of this stuff and get some stuff that makes you better at casting? There's also Circlet of Rapid Casting and Belt of Battle in Spell Compendium and all that good jazz. You may want to get a +1 Valorous Weapon for when you wanna charge someone for massive damage.

[shadmere]

Well, I already have the +4 adamantine longsword, and the armor is already +3. (The bone part is just part of the Bone Knight prestige class. Had to craft it myself earlier in the game. At this level, it fuses to my body and I can no longer remove it. I also get some neat undead-like immunities and such.)

I suppose I could sell the sword and buy a normal one, then enchant it daily up to +3. I'd profit about 17,300 from the sale. The lack of the extra +1 would hurt a little, but not too much. (I got lucky as crap on a treasure roll and got this sword at level 9. At that point, I would have only been able to enchant my sword to a +2, so it was definitely worth keeping around.)

The helmet is something I found a long time ago and haven't had a reason to replace yet. (Unless there is a helmet I should purchase to replace it.)

I feel kinda dumb for not realizing that about Magic Vestment earlier. But the money on enchanting my armor already been spent, so I'll just be better about that from now on. :smallsmile:

I've got 21 turn attempts per day, using one nightstick and one reliquary item that adds another 3 attempts. I can cast three peristed spells a day. I use a metamagic extend rod on each one to stretch it out to two days, so I can have six persisted spells going at once.

I doubt this game will run to level 20, so upgrading my armor to +5 would not be replicatable Magic Vestment. But it might not matter that much, either.

My AC is currently 35, and my original plan was to upgrade my shield to +3, my armor to +5, my amulet to +5, and buy an Ioun stone to get my AC to 43.

But that wouldn't leave me enough cash to buy the prayer bead. Of course, I'll definitely not upgrade the shield at this point.

If I were making a level 20 character, I'd not even consider spending money on armor and weapon upgrades. But having a +5 armor at level 20 won't help me too much when I'm level 14.

You're right about the prayer beads, though. I don't know if I'll be able to purchase the karma one by itself, but if not, I'll just buy the whole strand. (27k).

Hrm. We're about to go on a quest to try and find an artifact to help us defeat an ancient dragon. After that, we're leaving the city again and it's possible we won't be around a large city with a "buy whatever you want" market again before endgame. (When we return from the next quest, we're supposed to start our journey towards the BBEG. While that might not go as planned, I can't assume that we'll find ourselves in another major city before that battle.)

It might be a good idea to just buy the prayer beads, then save the rest of my money and hope my profit from the artifact sidequest will be enough to buy a Manual of Gainful Exercise +5. :smalltongue:

Edit: Since I started typing this post, things were said that make some of what I typed stupid and/or wrong. I'll reply more intelligently in a minute. :smallsmile:

[Eldariel]

If I were making a level 20 character, I'd not even consider spending money on armor and weapon upgrades. But having a +5 armor at level 20 won't help me too much when I'm level 14.

Like I said, you can pump your caster level to 20 with items on level 14. You don't need to be level 20, you only need caster level 20 and there's even more ways to pump caster level than what I listed. But if your Caster Level is 14 now, Beads of Karma + Orange Prism Ioun Stone + Adept Spirit will get you +5 weapons and armor already.

If you need more, there's Ankh of Ascension for +4 more in Magic Item Compendium. And Robe of Arcane Might for +1 more. It's like...you can get any amount of caster level you need with modest investments. +5 armors and weapons nearly undispellably (along with the rest of your buffs at the same caster level alongside the Ring of Enduring Arcana for +4 more against Dispels), it's worth it.

[Firechanter]

Yeah, what Eldariel said. You can get CL20 for +5 enhancements quite easily.
Though I understand you might not want to sell a weapon that you were so lucky to acquire and that has served you well for a long time. Maybe someone else in your party can take it?

(FWIW, my old Cleric also stuck to his +2 Longsword that he found, but then again it was an Intelligent one. In that campaign we were seriously under-wealthed though, so I couldn't even buy a friggin Karma bead.)

[shadmere]

Yeah, I see how I was thinking horribly wrong about my caster level. I noticed that after I already posted my first reply, sorry.

I can sell my Amulet of Natural armor easily enough, and will sell my Ghost Touch sword and +4 adamantine sword, replacing both is a nonmagical adamantine sword.

Definitely will buy a Bead of Karma and an Orange Ioun Stone. Also will try to buy a Ring of Enduring Arcana and possibly a Ring of Spell-Battle (depending on how much those cost; I'm away from my books at the moment).

The Bead and the Ioun Stone get me a +5 extremely easily, that's amazing. I'm not sure what an Adept Spirit is, though, and Googling isn't helping me. Holy crap, an Ahnk of Ascension would be great for that. It'd cost me a few level 3-4 spells a day, to pump my caster level up each time, but that'd be worth it. And only 9,000? Huh, not bad. (The Robe of Arcane might seems like it might only work on arcane spells, but that's based entirely on my Google-fu, since I don't have my books with me.)

Not sure what a Valorous weapon does, exactly.

Huh, the Belt of Battle is pretty awesome. I guess it'd be cheesy for me to buy several and change them after fights. :smalltongue:

Thanks for all of your help. :smallsmile: I can't believe I had missed that about caster levels so completely. :smallsigh:

[Firechanter]

Valorous weapon: from FR Unapproachable East. Doubles damage on a charge, +1 bonus. A favourite of charger builds.

And yes, Belt of Battle is good to have. I suggest not overdoing it and stick to one. ;)

Why sell the Ammy of Natural Armour? Does Bone Knight get Natural Armour as well? If so, then away with the ammy. If not, better keep it and slap on some additional properties. Cleric doesn't get Barkskin, after all. (unless you have the proper domain.) Persisting Righteous Might might not be favourable in all circumstances.

[Eldariel]

I'm not sure what an Adept Spirit is, though, and Googling isn't helping me.

Adept Spirit is a spell from Magic of Incarnum; effectively acts as a spell booster, granting you a short duration of increased caster level (gets you CL +1 for 1 minute; just barely enough to cast your long term buffs). It's only a level 2 spell, too. Could be augmented with Incarnum for bigger effect but that's besides the point here; for CL buff, just the 2nd level spell slot will do.


Not sure what a Valorous weapon does, exactly.

Weapon enhancement from Unapproachable East. Double damage on Charge. Allows for rather painful swings to the face; I like it on most melee types. Only +1 cost too.

[shadmere]

I wish there was a second spell I could cast that would let me persist Righteous Might and stay the same size that I used to be. :p

Wait. If I got inside a stone enclosure only a foot or so taller than myself, I could cast Righteous Might and basically stay the same size, right? Now the only problem is finding an enclosure of that size and strength on a semi-daily basis . . .

I admit, I was selling the Amulet of Natural Armor because someone told me to and because of the use of the Ankh of Ascension. But I can take that Ankh off after I use it in the morning, can't I?

[Eldariel]

I wish there was a second spell I could cast that would let me persist Righteous Might and stay the same size that I used to be. :p

Honestly, with squeezing rules, large size isn't much of an issue. Doubled reach is amazing, +4 to all combat maneuver checks; all the good stuff. That said, what you desire can indeed be done. There's a 7th level Cleric-spell called "Holy Transformation" which specifically makes you medium without altering your stats (and then grants you some Sacred Con and Str bonuses).

So you can cast Righteous Might followed by Holy Transformation and be medium with all the goodies. Lesser Holy Transformation works too. They're both in Spell Compendium; you may actually be using one tho. So just sequence the spells in that order if you wish to remain Medium (I personally prefer Large for most adventuring and Colossal for fights with any room to speak of).

[Curmudgeon]

You can use DMM Persist with greater magic weapon and magic vestments
Nope; invalid spells. You need a personal or fixed range spell for Persistent Spell. Touch spells have a variable range equal to the caster's natural reach (anywhere from 0' to 30' depending on size).

[shadmere]

Honestly, with squeezing rules, large size isn't much of an issue. Doubled reach is amazing, +4 to all combat maneuver checks; all the good stuff. That said, what you desire can indeed be done. There's a 7th level Cleric-spell called "Holy Transformation" which specifically makes you medium without altering your stats (and then grants you some Sacred Con and Str bonuses).

. . . huh.

And visions of godhood danced through my head. :smallbiggrin:

The reason I'm loathe to semi-permanently increase my size is that almost all of our adventuring has been done underground, and I really really do not want to have to ask, "How tall is the ceiling?" when the answer "about 10 feet" will basically screw me.

[Firechanter]

Godhood? There's a spell for that. The "Image of the Deity" spell line, to be precise. I don't know by heart what they do and if they are worth it, because I don't like shapechanging and I also play my characters accordingly.

[Taelas]

You're right, I completely missed that. (I am also now having an argument with a friend whether reach is variable or not...)

[Curmudgeon]

(I am also now having an argument with a friend whether reach is variable or not...)
You're size Medium, with 5' reach. You get Enlarge Person cast on you, and suddenly you're size Large, with 10' reach. (Is the argument over yet?)

[Eldariel]

Godhood? There's a spell for that. The "Image of the Deity" spell line, to be precise. I don't know by heart what they do and if they are worth it, because I don't like shapechanging and I also play my characters accordingly.

Visage of the Deity-line, actually. It gives you a massive number of general outsider traits (which, depending on your deity) to the tune of untyped stat buffs, energy resistances, spell resistance, damage reduction, etc. The list for each is like 10 lines long so I'd loathe to repeat it for no reason. Greater isn't "worth it", per ce (9th level slot and all that), but as a Persistable buff you'll generally have it anyways for the free buffs to everything and relieving you of a ton of itemization (it also grants flight, which is convenient). Lesser forms I rarely bother with. But Greater, again, comes with convenient stat buffs which is always cool.

[Firechanter]

Right, Visage of the Deity -- I thought "image" sounded wonky but couldn't tell why. ;) Anyway, yeah, that's what it is, certainly not a bad buff if you don't mind running around as a life-sized hood ornament (http://de.academic.ru/pictures/dewiki/48/070707-092310.jpg). (Whis is what turned me off of actually using it.)

[Eldariel]

Right, Visage of the Deity -- I thought "image" sounded wonky but couldn't tell why. ;) Anyway, yeah, that's what it is, certainly not a bad buff if you don't mind running around as a life-sized hood ornament (http://de.academic.ru/pictures/dewiki/48/070707-092310.jpg). (Whis is what turned me off of actually using it.)

I don't think Greater changes your appearance except by giving you wings.

[shadmere]

(I personally prefer Large for most adventuring and Colossal for fights with any room to speak of).

Wait, how do you make it to Colossal?

[Doc Roc]

May I also suggest a couple of my favorites?
4K GP: Glyphseals, from the magic item compendium, regardless of how you read them, are an amazing addition to your arsenal.
10K GP: Feathered Wing Grafts, from Fiend Folio, are some of the best move-speed enhancers around, and they also give rather good flight.
~55K GP: Boots of Temporal Acceleration (This might not be their name, I cannot ever remember it) in the MiC.
??K GP: Third Eye, Clarity, MiC. Prevents daze.

[Eldariel]

Wait, how do you make it to Colossal?

There's a spell called "Giant Size" in Complete Arcane. It increases your size based on your caster level to the maximum of Colossal on Caster Level 20 (with the associated stat bonuses so Colossal transformation is +32 Str, +12 Con and +12 Natural Armor for example; -2 to Dex, -8 to hit and AC tho). It's also in Oriental Adventures with a (Shaman) Domain called "Hero", which has it as a 7th level spell. Without said Domain access tho, you have to wait until 9th level spells to cast Miracle replicating it.

Also, the spell "Shapechange" from PHB can be acquired through Animal-domain and is also capable of Colossal sizes (and then some; it's quite probably the single most powerful spell in the game and happens to last 10 min/level naturally; indeed, a class with nothing but advancing Shapechange on all levels would easily be just as strong as core spellcasters for almost all the game).



Boots of Temporal Acceleration (This might not be their name, I cannot ever remember it) in the MiC.

You got it right :smallcool:

[Firechanter]

I don't think Greater changes your appearance except by giving you wings.

Maybe, but the regular Visage gives a "shining, metallic" appearance. (Back when it would have been relevant for my Cleric, I didn't have access to 9th level spells.)

[Taelas]

There's always Bunko's Bargain Basement (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=350.0) on BG if you need more inspiration.

[Doc Roc]

There's always Bunko's Bargain Basement (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=350.0) on BG if you need more inspiration.

It is rather good. Both Koury and Ernir have compiled similar resources. If you'd like, I'll hunt them up for you, Shad.

[Firechanter]

What's that, underpriced magic items? *bookmarked*

[erikun]

I'm not sure what you've settled on, but a Periapt of Wisdom +4 is definitely something you should be looking into. I would also suggest something to boost your Constitution, although you do have spells which can give a temporary boost.

Strength-boosting equipment is rather redundant, given that Divine Power already grants +6 Strength and overlaps with the belt/gauntlets because it is the same kind of bonus.

[shadmere]

I'm pretty sure I'm doing this (or something very similar):

Sell
+4 adamantine great sword
+2 ghost touch bastard sword

Buy
Nonmagical adamantine great sword
Orange Ioun Stone
Bead of Karma
Ring of Enduring Arcana
Ankh of Ascension
Belt of Battle
Dusty Rose Ioun Stone
+4 Periapt of Wisdom, if I can stack it on top of my Natural Armor amulet.

With these, I should be able to pump up to an AC of 42, a strength of 42, be really hard to dispel effectively, and have some gold left over for a few crafted contingent spells.


It is rather good. Both Koury and Ernir have compiled similar resources. If you'd like, I'll hunt them up for you, Shad.

That would be really awesome, if it wasn't a lot of trouble.

[Keld Denar]

Still no +Con boost for a front-line melee character...

Disheartening...

[shadmere]

My con's not that great, I will grant you. Though I will be persisting Righteous Might, and Lesser Holy Transformation, which will both give me a boost. I also persist Channeled Divine Shield, which gives me DR 10 against evil, which really helps as far as the hitpoints go.

If I were going to replace one of the things I've listed with a Con item, what would you suggest? And just a standard Amulet of Health, or something else?

[Keld Denar]

Well, using the rules for magic item combination in the MIC, you can add Con to neck, vest, and belt slots. I'd slap it on one of them. You can never have too many HP. Ever.

[shadmere]

Well, using the rules for magic item combination in the MIC, you can add Con to neck, vest, and belt slots. I'd slap it on one of them. You can never have too many HP. Ever.

I don't disagree. :smallsmile: I just mean, the list I posted a few posts ago pretty much drains me of everything but 15,000. Is there anything I listed that you'd recommend Con instead of? Or is Con more important than those Contingent Spells I plan on crafting? :smallsmile:

[Taelas]

As Eldariel said, you can just cast bear's endurance instead of getting the bonus on an item. It's a solid investment, but you just don't have the coin. You'll have to rely on the spell for the heavier fights and go without the rest of the time, unfortunately.

[Doc Roc]

Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187851) you go! This is Ernir's item list, and it's super good.

[faceroll]

Doesn't Holy Transformation give you an enhancement bonus to con? That doesn't stack with +con items.

[Doc Roc]

Doesn't Holy Transformation give you an enhancement bonus to con? That doesn't stack with +con items.

I... thought it gave a +holy bonus? That may be another spell entirely though.

[faceroll]

I... thought it gave a +holy bonus? That may be another spell entirely though.

Just dug it up, I was thinking of Visage of the Deity.

[Eldariel]

I... thought it gave a +holy bonus? That may be another spell entirely though.

It gives you Sacred.

[Odin the Ignoble]

A small army in time for campaigning season.

Depending on prices you could hire a couple thousand men for long enough to conquer a small city. Then just raid their treasury to pay the mercs until things settle down.

[shadmere]

Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187851) you go! This is Ernir's item list, and it's super good.

Wow, that's great! ::saves::


As Eldariel said, you can just cast bear's endurance instead of getting the bonus on an item. It's a solid investment, but you just don't have the coin. You'll have to rely on the spell for the heavier fights and go without the rest of the time, unfortunately.

Good point. I'll make sure to memorize that/grab some potions. :smallsmile: