Alchemy, Poison, Plants and Minor Creation

[FreakyCheeseMan]

So, I'm in the final stages of building a 7th-level Archivist; I've given him the feat Jack of All Trades (let's me use any skill untrained) and every generic skill buff spell I could find, letting him give himself something like a +27 to any skill.

He also has the spell "Minor Creation" which creates 1 cubic foot per level of nonliving plant matter, for 1 hour per level- he has to have a small sample of whatever he creates, but it can be very small.

I'm wondering how I can get the most out of these abilities- what the best plant-based poisons are, what the best alchemiable substances are, etc. Are there plant-based acids in the game? Healing supplies? Explosives? Things I could turn into explosives, given seven hours and a +27 to alchemy?

I have very little gold left to spare at this point (Just over 1000, if I don't enchant my armor), so expensive options are off the table. What should I get?

[McQ]

I had an idea like that for an Elemental "prestige" class/form for an Earth Elemental.

Grasping a plant of some kind and the inherent properties of the plant would affect the character. I bought the Mongoose book Alchemy and Herbalists. It has helped a lot with ideas of what Herb/Plant might impart as special abilities. As far as acids or others I can't think of much that isn't from an animal.

What game system are you playing or books do you have? Or am I totally missing something? One time I was really tired and posted in a forum about WoW Druids and was referring to 3.5 D&D Druids. Wow was I embarrassed.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

I had an idea like that for an Elemental "prestige" class/form for an Earth Elemental.

Grasping a plant of some kind and the inherent properties of the plant would affect the character. I bought the Mongoose book Alchemy and Herbalists. It has helped a lot with ideas of what Herb/Plant might impart as special abilities. As far as acids or others I can't think of much that isn't from an animal.

What game system are you playing or books do you have? Or am I totally missing something? One time I was really tired and posted in a forum about WoW Druids and was referring to 3.5 D&D Druids. Wow was I embarrassed.

I have quite a lot of books, but not that one, sad to say.

Playing 3.5, most rulebooks are included- our DM is pretty lenient. Mind, if I tried showing up with anything tha was *too* abusively powerful, he'd rule against it.

[erikun]

Just go through the poisons list and write down anything that comes from a plant, rather than an animal or monster. Also, I believe alchemist fire is an oil and thus could be considered to be devired from a (very long expired, but still a) plant. Just so long as it doesn't light on fire when exposed to flames, you should be good.

[Veyr]

Black Lotus Extract comes from the Black Lotus, a flower, and is one of the most vicious poisons in 3.5.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

*nods* Reading Arsenic and Old Lace right now.

What about explosives, either plant-based or creatable by alchemy (or both)? I have a vague plan to give the DM a heart attack by burrowing under the BBEG's fortress and leaving behind 28 cubic feet of the nastiest explosives I can make...

[Alleine]

I don't know about conventional explosives, and in fact the only one I can think of is neither plant based nor very cheap, but if you think you can stun your dm with the sheer insanity of trying to get away with this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_explosion) then you can get a pinch of flour and go to town. Not so good for breaking a fortress, just killing everyone exposed.

[Coidzor]

Only thing I can think of involves petroleum and fertilizer(can't remember which type, since there's like, petroleum, phosphorous, nitrogen, animal, and plant-based ones), both of which are probably too far removed from organic and plant-based to really be much of a shot with Minor Creation.

I don't think a lot of high proof alcohol is going to create enough concussive force to really do much, either.

[Gavinfoxx]

Have you read this? It has a section on plant based and minor creation poisons.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4854.0

[cfalcon]

Black Lotus Extract comes from the Black Lotus, a flower, and is one of the most vicious poisons in 3.5.

Veyr has it here, this is one of your top choices.

[NNescio]

Are plant-based gases a valid target for Minor Creation? (assuming a glass vial to hold the sample.)

Ethylene can be rather explosive, and is released naturally in the ripening of fruits (as well as a lot of other biological processes, but in smaller amounts).

Hydrogen cyanide is also explosive, and can be distilled from pit fruits and almonds (of the bitter variety in particular). It is also very toxic though.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

I think I can afford Black Lotus, (or the materials to make it), but I'm not quite sure how a "dose" of poison compares to the "Tiny amount" of it I need to cast minor creation. We're mostly fighting undead, but there are certainly some living targets around, and some sick part of me loves the idea of just dumping 7-21 cubic feet of the stuff in a river.

In general, I'm trying to stick to stuff that's explicitly mentioned at some point in the rules, so... where would I find stuff on non-magical explosives?

And does anyone know anything I should look into for alchemical substances in general, plant-based or not?

[Akal Saris]

Heyas, I hope my poisons guide was useful :)

There are some non-magical explosives in Races of the Dragon that kobolds sometimes use. Not sure if they are plant matter or what though.

Also, minor creation and you! (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=747757)

I have a spreadsheet from somewhere of other stuff that is possible with minor creation, but I don't know how to format it for this board...

Open this spoiler at the risk of dealing with bad formatting!
Plant Based Material for D&D 3.5 Djinn Caster Level is 20, 20 cubic ft of material per casting, plant based material is permanent.

Name Benefit Weight Hardness HP per inch of thickness Cost
Building Materials
Dark Wood -2 Armor Check Penalty ½ of wood 5 10
Live Wood Wood continues living after cut, spells that affect plants can be used on it. normal for wood 6 10
Bronze Wood Hardwood that can be used for weapons and armor, no armor check penalty to hide in woods. 10% less than metal it replaces 10 20
Dense Wood Hardwood similar to iron, +5 Break DC 2 x normal for wooden objects 8 20
Soar Wood Light wood, ships speed doubled if made from it, required for airships in Eberron 25% less than wood 5 10
Wild Wood wood nearly as strong as steel, - 1 AC when made into armor, +1 Max Dex, -5% Arcane Spell Failure. When in sunlight for 1 hour it heals 1 HP, when soaked in water as well it heals 5 HP. 25% less than metal it replaces 6 10
Shadow Top Torch burns longer and cleaner than regular wood, torch burns for 2 hours and gives off little smoke. normal for wood
Weirwood wood favored for musical instruments, glows for 1d4+1 rounds after leaving an area of magical illumination equal to a candle, living weirwood has ER 20 (fire) though preserving this after death can not be done.
Dusk Wood This iron like wood can be used for weapons and breast plates. 50% of steel item 10 30
Alchemical Extracts Addiction DC
Felsul Flower Oil perfume adds +1 competence bonus on Cha based checks for 10 minutes. 1 oz contains 10 doses. 100 GP
Mule Pollen +2 Str, -2 Int & Wis, 1d4 x 10 Min. If addicted user is fatigued when not under the influence. Neutralize poison negates. 12 50 GP
Silverbark Sap Natural anti toxin, +2 vs poison for 1 hour, 1oz dose. 20 GP
Sleepwood Pod Dried pod, 5ft ranged touch, Will DC 12 or sleep for 1 min. 50 GP

[Zaq]

I had an idea like that for an Elemental "prestige" class/form for an Earth Elemental.

Grasping a plant of some kind and the inherent properties of the plant would affect the character. I bought the Mongoose book Alchemy and Herbalists. It has helped a lot with ideas of what Herb/Plant might impart as special abilities. As far as acids or others I can't think of much that isn't from an animal.

What game system are you playing or books do you have? Or am I totally missing something? One time I was really tired and posted in a forum about WoW Druids and was referring to 3.5 D&D Druids. Wow was I embarrassed.

I usually don't give a crap about third party stuff, but someday I really want to play in a campaign where that book features heavily (or at least nontrivially). I can't put my finger on exactly what I love about it, and I remember that you'd have to modify some of the stuff in there to make it play nice with the rest of the game, but something about that book just strikes me as unbearably cool. I really don't know why.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Heyas, I hope my poisons guide was useful :)

There are some non-magical explosives in Races of the Dragon that kobolds sometimes use. Not sure if they are plant matter or what though.

Also, minor creation and you! (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=747757)

I have a spreadsheet from somewhere of other stuff that is possible with minor creation, but I don't know how to format it for this board...

Open this spoiler at the risk of dealing with bad formatting!
Plant Based Material for D&D 3.5 Djinn Caster Level is 20, 20 cubic ft of material per casting, plant based material is permanent.

Name Benefit Weight Hardness HP per inch of thickness Cost
Building Materials
Dark Wood -2 Armor Check Penalty ½ of wood 5 10
Live Wood Wood continues living after cut, spells that affect plants can be used on it. normal for wood 6 10
Bronze Wood Hardwood that can be used for weapons and armor, no armor check penalty to hide in woods. 10% less than metal it replaces 10 20
Dense Wood Hardwood similar to iron, +5 Break DC 2 x normal for wooden objects 8 20
Soar Wood Light wood, ships speed doubled if made from it, required for airships in Eberron 25% less than wood 5 10
Wild Wood wood nearly as strong as steel, - 1 AC when made into armor, +1 Max Dex, -5% Arcane Spell Failure. When in sunlight for 1 hour it heals 1 HP, when soaked in water as well it heals 5 HP. 25% less than metal it replaces 6 10
Shadow Top Torch burns longer and cleaner than regular wood, torch burns for 2 hours and gives off little smoke. normal for wood
Weirwood wood favored for musical instruments, glows for 1d4+1 rounds after leaving an area of magical illumination equal to a candle, living weirwood has ER 20 (fire) though preserving this after death can not be done.
Dusk Wood This iron like wood can be used for weapons and breast plates. 50% of steel item 10 30
Alchemical Extracts Addiction DC
Felsul Flower Oil perfume adds +1 competence bonus on Cha based checks for 10 minutes. 1 oz contains 10 doses. 100 GP
Mule Pollen +2 Str, -2 Int & Wis, 1d4 x 10 Min. If addicted user is fatigued when not under the influence. Neutralize poison negates. 12 50 GP
Silverbark Sap Natural anti toxin, +2 vs poison for 1 hour, 1oz dose. 20 GP
Sleepwood Pod Dried pod, 5ft ranged touch, Will DC 12 or sleep for 1 min. 50 GP


Your guide was very useful- I've been trying to decide between Black Lotus and Greensickness with my character's remaining wealth. Black lotus is probably better just for being constitution damage, but some part of me really wants to use charmed birds (I *love* being an Archivist) to bomb a werewolf camp with vials of Greensickness. And have the bard play "Ride of the Valkyries" as they did.

On the whole, the guide probably would have been more useful to me if I were building a more dedicated poisoner, rather than having a mostly-complete character and realizing "Hey, I can stick on alchemy and poisons to this character for next-to-no additional cost!"

The only thing I'd want that I haven't been able to find would be a master chart of poisons- DC, damage, injestion type and DC, source book, gold cost, plant/mineral components, animal source (if any).

Ooh, some of those woods look nice... and I'll read up on kobold explosives, they could be fun.

[Gavinfoxx]

To that list of woods, I would add Serrenwood, from book of exalted deeds, which can be non magically ghost touch, and I would add Fey cherry wood, from Dragon Magazine #257.

Of course, if you want PERMANENT of this stuff, you're going to have to get a djinn to do it for you! Use summon monster for temporary ones, or planar bind one, or planar ally or planar bind one to get you a lock of hair and make a simulacrum of it. It also nets you free wishes.