Gold from the Excrement: A Build Challenge!

[Chilingsworth]

I just had a thought. Is it possible to make a viable, maybe even powerful, build if you're forced to use some of the weakest feats and classes in DnD 3.5?

Here are the requirements:

Must use all of the following classes (at least 1 level each):

Healer, Monk, Samurai (CW version), Soulknife

Must use all of the following feats:

Dodge, Point Blank Shot, Toughness

Must not loose any class abilities (though losing the ability to advance in the class is ok.)

32 point buy, 20th level build full gold alotment.

Wotc 3.5 published feats, classes (both base and PrC,) skill, and items ONLY.

NO Cheese!

Please also include a description of how the build is supposed to work, especially how you made the class and feat requirements work for you.

May the best piece of crap win!

[HalfDragonCube]

No cheese? What about icing, gravy and awesomesauce? Can those be added?

[Taelas]

17 Healer/1 Soulknife/1 CW Samurai/1 Monk. :P Chaingate Solars.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

LG Human, Soulknife 2/ Monk 1/ Samurai 1/ Healer 1/ Soulbow 2/ Apostle of Peace 3/ Contemplative 10, his Mind Arrows are Merciful.

Sacred Vow (H), Vow of Poverty (1), Hidden Talent (Chameleon) (SK1), Weapon Focus: Mind Blade/Arrow (SK1), Point Blank Shot (3), Zen Archery (6), Ability Focus: Vow of Peace (calming aura) (9), Ability Focus: Vow of Peace (weapon shattering) (12), Dodge (15), Toughness (18)

VoP bonus feats: Nymph's Kiss (1), Vow of Nonviolence (2), Vow of Peace (4), Intuitive Attack (6), Gift of Faith (8), Sanctify Martial Strike (Mind Blade/Arrow) (10), Nimbus of Light (12), Holy Radiance (14), Stigmata (16), Exalted Spell Resistance (18), Exalted Turning (20)

He has max ranks in Diplomacy and Sense Motive. Nothing can really pose a credible threat to him, and between spells and being awesome he'll have a solution to pretty much any challenge.

[Hirax]

Warlock1/heal1/sam1/monk1/knife1/ur-priest10
Able learner and jack of all trades so you can continue upping necessary skills for level 6 ur-priest entry, depending on how much of a stickler you are for D7D's skill rules.

edit: human and otyugh hole for ur-priest required feats.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I just had a thought. Is it possible to make a viable, maybe even powerful, build if you're forced to use some of the weakest feats and classes in DnD 3.5?

Here are the requirements:

Must use all of the following classes (at least 1 level each):

Healer, Monk, Samurai (CW version), Soulknife

Must use all of the following feats:

Dodge, Point Blank Shot, Toughness

Must not loose any class abilities (though losing the ability to advance in the class is ok.)

32 point buy, 20th level build full gold alotment.

Wotc 3.5 published feats, classes (both base and PrC,) skill, and items ONLY.

NO Cheese!

Please also include a description of how the build is supposed to work, especially how you made the class and feat requirements work for you.

May the best piece of crap win!

If we're trying to make a viable build out of this, we gotta use cheese.

[HalfDragonCube]

If we're trying to make a viable build out of this, we gotta use cheese.

Or WBLmancy. Or Diplomancy. Or Sacrificelomancy.

Now that I look at those, are they considered forms of cheese?

[AlterForm]

Wizard 16/Healer 1/Monk 1/Samurai 1/Soulknife 1

Feats:
1: Dodge
3: Point Blank Shot
5: Some kinda Metamagic
6: Toughness
9: Maybe some more Metamagic?
10: Perhaps some item creation feat. Or more metamagic
12: Take a guess
15: You know what's going on by this point
15: Yep, more of the same
18: Once more, with gusto.

Point Buy:
Dump everything into Int, a bit into Dex, finish out with Con. Maybe some Wis.

Purchases:
The usual INT-boosters and CL boosters and scrolls/wands/staves/etc.
The usual support items; ring of FoM, sustenance, I dunno.

You are still a level 16 Wizard. You still get level 8 spells. You still rape physics.

Note: I didn't actually bother to see if there are any class requirements I'm violating here. The idea should obvious, however.

Note 2: Yes, this absolutely violates the spirit of the challenge and is delivered firmly tongue-in cheek. :smalltongue:

[Hiro Protagonest]

Wizard 16/Healer 1/Monk 1/Samurai 1/Soulknife 1

Feats:
1: Dodge
3: Point Blank Shot
5: Some kinda Metamagic
6: Toughness
9: Maybe some more Metamagic?
10: Perhaps some item creation feat. Or more metamagic
12: Take a guess
15: You know what's going on by this point
15: Yep, more of the same
18: Once more, with gusto.

Point Buy:
Dump everything into Int, a bit into Dex, finish out with Con. Maybe some Wis.

Purchases:
The usual INT-boosters and CL boosters and scrolls/wands/staves/etc.
The usual support items; ring of FoM, sustenance, I dunno.

You are still a level 16 Wizard. You still get level 8 spells. You still rape physics.

Note: I didn't actually bother to see if there are any class requirements I'm violating here. The idea should obvious, however.

This is ignoring the purpose of the challenge.

[The Glyphstone]

I think Szar_Lakol is the only person who hasn't ignored the purpose of the challenge.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I think Szar_Lakol is the only person who hasn't ignored the purpose of the challenge.

I hadn't noticed that other people included other classes.

[Tael]

No mention of the Shneeky Samurai? :smallconfused:

[Person_Man]

The Healer actually has the best spell progression of any class in the game. It just has a lousy list. The list problem can be solved around stacking a bunch of prestige classes that grant domains, which in turn adds spells to your list. Divine Oracle, Sovereign Speaker, Sacred Exorcist, etc.

Alternatively you can just play as a tank. At 8th level, the Healer gets a Celestial Unicorn. In addition to the nifty template, the Unicorn gets a host of special abilities right off the bat, like Improved Evasion, Shared Saving Throws, and Shared Spells. As you gain Healer levels, the Unicorn gains new abilities, HD, Str/Dex/Int, etc., similar to a normal Animal Companion. Or you can pick better companions: Lammasu, Gynosphinx, or Water Naga at 12th level. Or an Androsphinx or Couatl at 16th level. The Healer just needs to cast a healing spell every round on themselves, which is Shared with their Companion, while their Companion fights for them.

Neither alternative kicks in until mid levels. But they're there.

[gallagher]

i havent looked over the feats, but i think this can work from my memory. this is basically a fun build to play with that is effective from early, drops off a little in the middle but can be good with proper planning and a cleric, and really picks up at the end. it also feels very much like a monk. you will have to use fraction BAB rules for this i think

Human Spellthief1/Monk2/Sorc3/Arcane Fist3/Ab Champ 1/Unseen Seer 10

Feats:
Human 1-Combat Casting
Level 1-Dodge
Monk 1- IUS and Stunning Fist
Monk 2- Combat Reflexes
3-Weapon Finesse
6-Master Spellthief
9- Ascetic Mage
12-Practiced Spellcaster
15-Point Blank Shot
18-Quicken

you still act like a monk, take monk levels, take a monk prestige class, and with the right buffs and magic items, you will be able to hit things (probs gonna grab stuff like wraithstrike). you will do decent damage, you will have good spells, and you will in general be a badass

had to check to see if i had a martial weapon in there, then remembered that monks get hand axes

[gallagher]

i havent looked over the feats, but i think this can work from my memory. this is basically a fun build to play with that is effective from early, drops off a little in the middle but can be good with proper planning and a cleric, and really picks up at the end. it also feels very much like a monk. you will have to use fraction BAB rules for this i think

Human Spellthief1/Monk2/Sorc3/Arcane Fist3/Ab Champ 1/Unseen Seer 10

Feats:
Human 1-Combat Casting
Level 1-Dodge
Monk 1- IUS and Stunning Fist
Monk 2- Combat Reflexes
3-Weapon Finesse
6-Master Spellthief
9- Ascetic Mage
12-Practiced Spellcaster
15-Point Blank Shot
18-Quicken

you still act like a monk, take monk levels, take a monk prestige class, and with the right buffs and magic items, you will be able to hit things (probs gonna grab stuff like wraithstrike). you will do decent damage, you will have good spells, and you will in general be a badass

had to check to see if i had a martial weapon in there, then remembered that monks get hand axes

oh hell i forgot to add in healer, samurai and soul knife. well add them in where you see fit, but i just made a cool fun monk build that steals spells

[Grendus]

Main problem with the challenge is that there's very little synergy in the classes. Monk in particular flies in the face of both the samurai and the soulknife, almost all of it's abilities are useless with weapons and both the samurai and soulknife are classes completely built around their weapons.

Healer, samurai, and soulknife can all mesh (soulknife creates a bastard sword which the samurai can at least use, and I'm sure you could build a gish-y build out of the healer and samurai) but monk is just way out in left field.

You could also get away with a Monk/Healer/Sacred Fist build, but to include samurai and soulknife you would basically be burning two levels to fit the challenge. It's possible to make a good build out of one of them, maybe even two (Healer in particular jumps several tiers if you include sanctified spells and some PrC's and feats that grant domain powers, and there's plenty of existing material for divine/melee classes), but I doubt a true synergy can be had.

[SurlySeraph]

Monk 1/ Soulknife 1/ Samurai 6/ Atavist 10/ Healer 1/ Unarmed Swordsage 1.
Use Shape Mind Blade or whatever it's called to make you mind blade into an unarmed strike. That's not the real point of Atavist, though; the real point is its capstone, which lets you gain a standard action by expending your psionic focus, and thus lets you make two standard actions per round with Psionic Meditation. You can also get good Use Psionic Device ranks and a Dorje of Hustle to turn your swift action into a third standard action. Take Imperious Command to force anyone you demoralize to Cowering, and spend each round using Staredown to immobilize your opponent and then hitting them with one or two 5th or 6th-level strikes. Or casting Healer spells, if you're a big nancy.

I'm trying to find a fear spell that affects your Intimidation effects rather than actually causing fear, so you can use Dread Witch in combination with a Samurai build to intimidate things that are immune to fear, but there don't seem to be any.

EDIT: Urge to make a Fochlucan Lyrist build rising.

[Lateral]

Ahem, Intimidating Samurai. Take a level or two of Monk for extra feats, one level of Soulknife to qualify for psionic feats, a Healer level to... I dunno, heal or something, take the given feats, take Never Outnumbered, Imperious Command, and so on, and be a god of intimidation.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Ahem, Intimidating Samurai. Take a level or two of Monk for extra feats, one level of Soulknife to qualify for psionic feats, a Healer level to... I dunno, heal or something, take the given feats, take Never Outnumbered, Imperious Command, and so on, and be a god of intimidation.

Yeah, I always liked the samurai's intimidation abilities.

[Telonius]

I'm really not very familiar with Psionics. But would this work at all?

Samurai1/Monk2/Soulknife2/War Mind4/Healer1/Sacred Fist10

BAB17 (I think) by the end of the build, able to use Hustle (I think) to give itself a move action as a swift action, mitigating one of the Monk's biggest weak points (no synergy between movement and Flurry), essentially 4 times a day. Still gets Flurry of Blows from Monk and Sacred Fist. Doesn't much care that it's unarmored. Samurai's there for the BAB. Healer's there to qualify it for the Full-BAB Sacred Fist. Ends up casting as a 9th-level Cleric Healer at the end of the build.

Point Blank Shot would work with Soulknife's Throw Blade ability, for those occasions when ranged is the best option. Dodge .. eh, why not, an extra +1 AC never hurts. Toughness is nearly-worthless anytime, but for a semi-frontline combatant, with (probably) low-ish AC, every little bit of extra HP helps.

EDIT: One point of clarification would be the Sacred Fist's requirement that he never use weapons. I would think that the Soulknife's thing would be an exception, since that's basically an extension of his mind, not a physical weapon.

[erikun]

Well, my first thought was a Monk/Healer/Sacred Fist with a level of Rainbow Servant and Prestige Paladin to add cleric spells and paladin spells to their spell list, with a few levels in Samurai (for feats) and one is Soulknife (for requirements). Sadly, Rainbow Servant doesn't work as I thought, both requiring 10 levels for clerical access and requiring/increasing arcane spellcasting. Ah well.

Prestige Paladin also requires turn undead. Sacred Exorist 1 gives turn undead, but requires the ability to cast Dismissal or Dispel Evil. I'm not familiar enough with the Healer to know if the can. Still, a Monk 2/Samurai 2/Healer 3/Sacred Fist 10/Sacred Exorcist 1/Prestige Paladin 1/Soulknife 1 might make an interesting combat divine spellcaster, if everything can work out. A level of Divine Oracle and Seeker of the Misty Isle would be nice for extra domains, if we don't mind giving up Sacred Fist levels. Contemplative actually gives any one domain, so perhaps that would work with Sacred Exorcist entry (by providing a domain spell to qualify for the class, if needed).

Complete Divine is fun!

I was also thinking perhaps a Samurai/Monk/Soulknife/Soulbow, using the Mindblade as the Samurai's "masterwork bastard sword" and throwing it around at people. I'd need to have access to Complete Warrior (which I don't) to see if the Samurai can be subjected to such trickery, along with re-reading the Soulbow entry to see if you can throw bastard swords with it.

[Chilingsworth]

Warlock1/heal1/sam1/monk1/knife1/ur-priest10
Able learner and jack of all trades so you can continue upping necessary skills for level 6 ur-priest entry, depending on how much of a stickler you are for D7D's skill rules.

edit: human and otyugh hole for ur-priest required feats.

This build wouldn't work: ur-priests have to be evil. Healers have to be good and lose their abilities if they become nongood.

I've seen some nice builds here! Good job guys!

[Brock Samson]

I've heard talk about something called Hellbred that to my understanding might let you take classes with Evil-only stuff, something like that, without necessarily needing to actually be evil. Would this work for Healer/Ur-Priest?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I've heard talk about something called Hellbred that to my understanding might let you take classes with Evil-only stuff, something like that, without necessarily needing to actually be evil. Would this work for Healer/Ur-Priest?

That only works for magical items which would have a negative effect on a nonevil wielder (Unholy weapon, etc.). It doesn't help meet an evil prerequisite for any prestige class. Even if it did, you still have that 'special' prerequisite that requires you to give up any divine spellcasting ability you possessed from another class, which would still lose your Healer class features and disqualifies any Ur-Priest build.

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Main problem with the challenge is that there's very little synergy in the classes. Monk in particular flies in the face of both the samurai and the soulknife, almost all of it's abilities are useless with weapons and both the samurai and soulknife are classes completely built around their weapons.

Well, you don't want more than Monk 2 anyway unless you need still mind for a prerequisite. Monk and Soulbow with Zen Archery has excellent Wisdom synergy and it's the Healer's casting stat. Dip Paladin 2 and you can dump everything except for the Dex 13 you need for Dodge.

Healer 12 gets you 6th level spells-- greater restoration and heal-- and a flying mount. You'd be a decent flying archer; not spectacular, but you're going to hit reliably for a decent amount of damage and you're difficult to run down and actually hit. Healing's a crappy specialty, but at least you're good at it; you've got everything short of mass cure critical and mass heal, and your mass cure serious is better than a Cleric casting the former.

If anything, it's the level of Samurai that's holding it back. Healer 13 would have given it 7th level spells without losing any more BAB, so in case of TPK the party would only have to keep adequate supplies of diamond dust on-hand.

Lesser Aasimar Monk 2/Soulknife 2/Paladin 2/Samurai 1/Soulbow 1/Healer 12

Beginning Stats: Str 8, Dex 13, Con 9, Int 8, Wis 19, Cha 19. (32 point buy, +2 Wisdom/Charisma.)
Finished Stats (WBL 18): Str 8, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 34, Cha 26
Finished Stats (WBL 20): Str 12, Dex 20, Con 18, Int 12, Wis 36, Cha 30

1: Point Blank Shot
3: Dodge
SK1: Weapon Focus (mind blade)
6: Precise Shot
Soulbow 1: Zen Archery
9: Rapid Shot
12: Toughness
15: Sacred Vow
18: Vow of Poverty
VoP 18: Nymph's Kiss
VoP 20: Sanctify Martial Strike

Skills are negligible except Ride.

(BAB and Saves fractional.)

BAB +12, mindbow +27/+27/+22/+17 1d8+17 20/x3
AC: 41, DR 10/evil
Fort: +24
Ref: +23, evasion
Will: +35

No spellcasting shenanigans, unfortunately, but a solid character capable of filling two roles in a party. As long as the party carries a portable hole and a handful of scrolls of raise dead, he's pretty good TPK insurance.

I'm a little disappointed. I thought I could have done more with this. Three more levels for Saint LA and Healer 13, and he'd be practically unkillable.

[Urpriest]

The Healer actually has the best spell progression of any class in the game. It just has a lousy list. The list problem can be solved around stacking a bunch of prestige classes that grant domains, which in turn adds spells to your list. Divine Oracle, Sovereign Speaker, Sacred Exorcist, etc.


See, I don't really see the logic in this. You're still only able to cast one domain spell per level per day (CDiv), so your excellent spell progression doesn't really help you, since with all your versatility you effectively only have a useful spells per day of one per level. Sovereign Speaker increases that a little, but not much.

[Lateral]

I think Sanctified spells help a lot. (Plus Binder dips. Hooray Naberius! Flavor conflicts are nonexistent, since binders are just hipster clerics. :smallcool:)

[Viktyr Gehrig]

You know, Healer wouldn't be half bad if it had the PF Paladin's lay on hands. And maybe channel positive energy. It would actually be better at performing its sole niche than a half-optimized Cleric.

I used to think it needed Warmage casting, but I was on the wrong track.

[Thurbane]

If you can get an arcane SLA at the right caster level, you could dip into Sand Shaper, and get all of their spells onto the Healer list.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Yea, I'd probably do a variant on my samurai with two levels of monk (for evasion), Soulknife to add more sneak attack, and cap with Healer for a bit of self-healing.