Full BAB for Bloodclaw Master (ToB)

[McSmack]

Was wondering why this PrC doesn't have full BAB (I actually wonder that about a lot of PrC's). I was thinking of dropping the Sifting ability and instead bumping the BAB back to full for a couple of reasons

A) I like full BAB for my fighters, especially for a pure melee builds.
B) The claw attacks listed don't seem that whippy to me. You can't get into the PrC til at least lvl 6. You must have Multiattack or TWF which mean you probably already have an off-hand attack. trading that in for a 1d4 claw attack doesn't seem like a smart move.
C) The rage ability is rather weak as the +2 only applies to Str (no Con bonus).

Personally I'd rather take a +1 to hit all the time than a conditional +1 to hit an damage.

Thoughts?

[The Cat Goddess]

I'd imagine that it's because it's meant to be a PrC for a base class that doesn't have full BAB (Swordsage).

[Telok]

It's a pretty iffy PrC. The main reasons I can see to take it are the Superior TWF and the semi-pounce at levels 2 and 3. The 4th and 5th levels are really weak. The d12 HD is nice but it's also a 2+int skill class, without Concentration on it's skill list. The shifting and claws are freebies, they aren't big or important, just small free action bonuses.

I think it's a PrC for people who multiclass or dip into swordsage and warblade. Both of those base classes lose maneuvers gained, BAB, and skills for taking it. But for a Scout or a Swift Hunter build it's a decent 2 or 3 level PrC.

[Akal Saris]

Eh, it's just a mediocre PrC. Best to just ignore it and take more levels of WB or swordsage instead. Or just give it full BAB and it's about as decent as swordsage.

[McSmack]

Yeah I'm dumbfounded by the reason you'd justify having a huge HD, a mediocre BAB, AND low skill points. All of this in a non-caster, strictly melee class. The three Tiger Claw maneuvers known is pretty harsh for non-TOB classes They gave it a hardcore melee fluff but then didn't back it up. Sad really.
Were I to fix it I'd either give it full bab and a d10 HD then chage out it's 4th or 5th level abilities for something like Improved Critical with Tiger Claw weapons.

Or

Keep the BAB as is, drop the HD to d8 and bump up the skills/level and add a few more skills to the mix.

Switching the position of Tiger Claw Synergy and Pouncing Strike might balance things out a bit more too.

I think you're right Telok, this is a dip PrC, take a level of warblade or swordsage then 3 levels of this then on to something else.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Odd as it is it's a lynch pin of one of my all time favorite builds.

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871422/Feral_Dreadlord:_SA,_TWF,_9th_Level_Maneuvers,_SAD _in_one_package

[Firechanter]

Bloodclaw Master is a Trap. (*insert picture of Admiral Ackbar here*)
You give up 2 points of permanent attack bonus to gain 2 points of circumstantial attack bonus. Yeah, that sounds like an awesome deal. oÔ


I'd imagine that it's because it's meant to be a PrC for a base class that doesn't have full BAB (Swordsage).

Like that ever stopped them. RKV is a PrC for Clerics, has full BAB and comes with a big helping of awesomesauce. JPM is a PrC for _Wizards_ and has full BAB.

[The Cat Goddess]

Bloodclaw Master is a Trap. (*insert picture of Admiral Ackbar here*)
You give up 2 points of permanent attack bonus to gain 2 points of circumstantial attack bonus. Yeah, that sounds like an awesome deal. oÔ



Like that ever stopped them. RKV is a PrC for Clerics, has full BAB and comes with a big helping of awesomesauce. JPM is a PrC for _Wizards_ and has full BAB.

Well, to be fair, RKV was probably meant to be a PrC for Crusaders with a Cleric dip, & JPM was for Warblades with a Wizard dip. Besides, most "Wizard Gish" PrCs are full BAB.

[Firechanter]

Well, to be fair, RKV was probably meant to be a PrC for Crusaders with a Cleric dip, & JPM was for Warblades with a Wizard dip. Besides, most "Wizard Gish" PrCs are full BAB.

I haven't scrutinized JPM so deeply yet, and only started looking at RKV last week.
As for the RKV, it seems to me that it works best starting out as Cru3/Clr2, so yes that's kind of dippy. This entry gives you the optimal Stance and Maneuver progression, however only 10 caster levels when you're through with RKV (level 15).

As for JPM, as I said I don't know much about it but I would think it's meant for a Wizard with a Warblade dip, most likely.

(I still love how "RKV" shares its abbreviation with the Relativistic Kill Vehicle, btw. ^^ )

[TimeWizard]

When ToB was new i won my very first internet explaining Jade Phoenix Mages, which I will paraphrase here:

JPM's have the coolest capstone ability ever: they explode. Surrounded? Explode. Outsiders? Explode. Low on HP? Explode. Explode? Explode. Come back a few rounds later with all your health. The class itself isn't as exploitable as full mage (but what is?) and for the ToB it is more versatile but less by-the-damage-roll-numbers powerful. In short, JPM is useful for people who want a varied, interesting, many options combatant with an answer to many questions and a sufficiently large stick. They Rock.

(I even like the Fluff)

[Hand_of_Vecna]

No, level 4-5 are a trap. 1-3 is one point of BAB for two points of (conditional) hit that should always be on if your in the target audience of the class. Also as with any ToB PrC it adds it's full level to all initiator levels. I don't know how common they are in general but I multiclass warblade and swordsage more often than I don't.

[Greenish]

Also as with any ToB PrC it adds it's full level to all initiator levels.Not all ToB PrCs do that.