[3.5e] Warblade rebuild help!

[Dusto]

We are getting a chance to rebuild our characters after a major plot change in our campaign. My character is a level 10 human warblade and I need some good advice on how to make him more useful. I spread him out too much before with extra martial studies and stance outside of warblade, to start and he seemed a bit weak compared to what people tell me of their warblades. I probably would like to stay human for the extra feat and skills, but there may be something better that I'm not aware. Also I am considering going 1 level of barbarian for the movement and rage which can be useful in some situations.

Appreciate any and all help/advice in advance, thank you!

[Keld Denar]

Do you have an online character sheet to link or something? Could you repost your race, stats, feats, maneuvers, gear, and anything else, along with a list of what you can and can not change, as well as what goals or desires you have and what books you have available other than ToB?

[Hirax]

If you want to stick with a melee character, I recently posted this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10904924&postcount=10). It includes 5 levels of warblade, though depending on your ability scores it may or may not be suitable.

[Dusto]

Yep, sorry I left out a lot of details. This is a 30 pt build, we can rewrite everything, so it's completely rebuilt from ground up. I have a legacy weapon that allows me to shape it into any weapon, but that's almost it for equipment, the rest is wiped and the dm is pretty stingy about equipment also. I normally shaped my weapon into a great hammer from monster manual 4 I think, but I'm flexible on trying other things also. All 3.5 books are allowed.

[Hirax]

In that case I might recommend goliath in conjunction with the build I just posted. Negotiate retroactiveLA buyoff (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm) if possible, so that you only lose 3,000 EXP instead of 9,000, or perhaps compromise between the two. Though you would have to drop whirling frenzy, you would gain the ability to be large non-magically while raging, and then with the expansion power from psychic warrior become huge, getting you a 30 foot reach with a spiked chain. The catch is you'll have to wait another level to get combat reflexes in this case.

edit: if you need the source of any of those feats or other clarifications just post

[Dusto]

Sounds interesting, but I am unfamiliar with the goalith. Do you have the stats on that?

I am leary on level adjustment, as my DM will go with what is written down for it, but it's possible I may try something with a LA.

[Hirax]

Goliaths are in Races of Stone. Their physical ability modifiers are +4 str, -2 dex, and +2 con. They have a level adjustment one, but if you use the Unearthed Arcana/SRD rules to get rid of the level adjustment (100% legal, that material is from WotC), then because D&D's exp system is designed to cause people that take exp loss to slowly catch up, you shouldn't start more than 4,000 exp behind everyone imo. Frankly, if you were playing this campaign from level 1, and bought off the level adjustment at level 3, and continued all the way to level 10 naturally, you probably wouldn't be missing more than 1,000 exp. You might even leapfrog others in the party and end up with more exp. This is probably a little confusing, other will be able to explain it better than I can.

Anyway, if you used point buy to get to 16 str, 16 dex, 14 con, 10 int, 10 wis, and 8 cha, you'd end up with 20 str, 14 dex, 16 con. Or 18 con if you totally dumped int and wis.

Goliaths have a barbarian racial substitution ability, that works like regluar rage, except they gain +6 str, +4 con, and become large.

[Keld Denar]

Goliath

Warblade1/Fighter2/Warblade+7

1st Power attack
2nd Bonus Improved Bullrush
3rd Mage Slayer (CArc)
3rd Bonus Dungeoncrasher I (Dungeonscape)
6th Knockback (Races of Stone)
7th Bonus Blindfighting
9th Pierce Magical Concealment (CArc)

Manuevers
{table]Level|Class|IL|Gain|Lose|Stance
1|War1|1|Saphire Nightmare Blade, Wolf Fang Strike, Steel Wind||Hunter's Sense
2|Ftr1|1|||
3|Ftr2|2|||
4|War2|3|Mountain Hammer||
5|War3|4|Emerald Razor||
6|War4|5|Iron Heart Surge|Wolf Fang Strike|Absolute Steel
7|War5|6|Insightful Strike||
8|War6|7|Ruby Nightmare Blade|Saphire Nightmare Blade|
9|War7|8|Mithril Tornado||
10|War8|9|Dazing Strike|Steel Wind|
[/table]

That looks pretty solid. You'll have 4 maneuvers readied...I'd opt for Emerald Razor, Iron Heart SURGE!!!!, Ruby Nightmare Strike, and either Mithril Tornado or Dazing Strike, depending on how many foes you anticipate fighting. Emerald Razor has fun combo tech with Power Attack and Knockback and Dungeoncrasher, allowing you to PA for more resulting in a higher opposed roll for further distance. Ruby Nightmare gets you some big hits. Mithril Tornado + PA for a couple + Knockback is a roundhouse sweep that will send every foe next to you flying. Dazing Strike is just dang useful...almost nothing is immune to daze. If you want, you could swap Dazing Strike for the nearly identical Disrupting Blow from Diamond Mind, either is about as good as the other.

You also have the utility of Insightful Strike and/or Mountain Hammer. Insightful Strike is nice when you are unarmed. Mountain Hammer is nice when you REALLY need to turn a wall into a door. Pick up a spoon and Mountain Hammer your way to China if you have to. You can swap them out for one of the others in an out-of-combat situation with only 5 minutes notice, then swap back as needed.

For feats, you have the PA + Imp Bull Rush + Knockback combo for hillarity. If you aren't gonna be full attacking, Knockback isn't a liability to you, so feel free to punt away. If your foe hits a wall, Dungeoncrasher gives you a double word score bonus to the tune of 2d6+1.5x Str. Blindfighting is blah, but its a Warblade bonus feat that qualifies you, along with Mage Slayer, for Pierce Magical Concealment. PMC is the ultimate in middle finger salutes for casters that want to do things like cast Displacement or Greater Mirror Image. Those are the guys that are going to ruin your day. Respond to their high and mighty Greater Mirror Image with a Dazing Strike and then giggle maniacally while your team gang-beats the helpless caster (assuming no contingencies). Its not PERFECT, but its something.

For stats: Str > Con > Dex > Int > Wis > Cha

[Dusto]

The DM does do adjusted xp based on level, so we can 'catch up' a little bit if we are lower level. That doesn't sound bad, I will take a look at it tonight when I get home.

Question, I know before I kept my Int at 14 for the bonus skill points and also some of the warblade abilities get minor bonuses based on it as well. Do you think it would be worthwhile to drop the starting CON down to 14 to get the extra 6 points to put in other places? Or am I giving up too much for those extras?

[Dusto]

Wow, guys the info is awesome, that build does look like a lot of fun. Two quick questions, I live and die by wall of blades with my current character. Is that something I should just try to survive without? Also, I don't have a book here, but fighter 2, would I be better going fighter 1 and barbarian 1 for the movement and d12 vs d10? I can't recall if 2nd fighter gives another feat, I thought it was a blank level.

[Keld Denar]

Fighter2 does give you a feat, but in the build I listed, it actually doesn't. There is an Alt Class Feature for Fighters in Dungeonscape (written in part by our very own Rich Burlow, FYI) that trades your 2nd level feat for a few nifty tricks. One of the tricks, as I noted, is that when you bull rush someone into a wall or other rigid surface, you get +2d6 +1.5x Str damage for free. With the Knockback feat, any time you PA, you have the option to knock people back as if you bull rushed them, with a bonus based on how much you PA for. Every time you initiate a strike, you should be PAing for at least 2 points, meaning every hit you make is a potential knockback. This also has the side effect of keeping you mobile and denying foes a full attack in melee vs you.

The Barb level doesn't give you that much great stuff. Absolute Steel already gives you Fast Movement, along with an extra +1d6 damage when you move 10'. None of your maneuvers work well with full attacking, so you don't really need pounce.

Wall of Blades doesn't really work that well with PA. Since PA lowers your attack bonus, and persists through till the start of your next turn, that means it also lowers the effective AC granted by Wall of Blades. That leaves you in the awkward position of having to worry about how much to PA for to keep your defenses up vs knocking your foes down. Its more fun to just hack and slash merrily away until your foes stop moving. At least in my opinion.

Any other questions?

[Greenish]

I can't recall if 2nd fighter gives another feat, I thought it was a blank level.Fighter 2 gives a feat or Dungeoncrasher I if you're using the ACF.

[Dusto]

Yep, sorry about that, I checked when I got home, and F2 does indeed give the feat/ability.

That makes a lot of sense about the PA and Wall of Blades. Interesting build idea for sure. I double checked and forgot I died the last game before the reset, so I'm actually only 9th level.

Gonna read up on the race and abilities everyone brought up, thanks so much!

[Half-orc Bard]

I've just made a warblade for the first time today. Google warblade handbook and then one result should be on this forum and it has some amazing color coated advice

[Hirax]

In considering barbarian/pounce/goliath, here's some food for though. Becoming large while raging for 20 foot reach, then huge for 30 foot reach at your option (psychic warrior power), combined with pounce means that you can charge, and even with only 2 attacks do a lot of damage. If you charge into the middle of the battlefield, with combat reflexes you're greatly hampering enemy movement, because at 15' wide while being huge, and 30' reach in each direction, that's 75' that an enemy has to avoid. Should they violate your reach, an attack of opportunity from you is going to 1) hurt a lot and 2) allow you to use knockback. You won't always be able to become huge because you might face ceiling issues. However, you'll only be around 9 feet tall when becoming large during a rage, which means ceiling issues will rarely be an issue and you can always assume it to be the case that you are 10' wide and threaten 20' on either side of you, making a modest 50' sphere enemies will think twice about entering.

Damage math for my build:
X+Y+Z
X=weapon damage (dice plus enhancements)
Y=strength damage (strength mod*1.5)
Z=power attack damage

The shock trooper feat allows you to substitute reductions to your AC instead of BAB when charging (still can't exceed your BAB). The leap attack feat increases your power attack damage by 100%. So let's say you charge, get 2 attacks out of it, and power attack with 8 BAB, and have 30 strength (20 base, 4 from bull's strength, 6 from goliath rage). Let's also assume your spiked chain does just 5 damage.
5+10*1.5+7*4=52 in one hit

If you hit with both attacks that's 104 damage. Add in the dungeoncrasher ability when using knockback, and you add 2d6+15 damage when they get swatted into a wall or another person. Of course, you can also whack them off a cliff too.

Shock trooper also allows you to move them one square to the left or right for every square you send them flying backwards. Also remember than when using bull rush, size bonuses are applicable, so you get a +8 bonus if huge, plus any increases in strength you've been accumulating help too. As a goliath you'll always be considered at least large though, so as a race goliaths are great for that.

If you need more feats, you can ask your DM to let you use flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) from Unearthed Arcana. Cheesy, but more feats are nice.

edit: Another feat to consider is battle jump, and a weapon special ability is valorous. Both are in Unapproachable East and are very powerful, if you want to use them you should ask your DM first. If you get permission, battle jump is fairly easy to optimize as a goliath, since you're always treated as having a running start. Assuming you used a valorous weapon and did a battle jump charge you could be doing 150 damage in one hit, and 300 if you hit both times. You'd be doing (X+Y+Z)*3 per hit.

[Keld Denar]

The problem with what you are trying, Hirax, is that you are too unfocused. You are combining Charger + Lockdown with Warblade while splashing PsyWar and Dungeoncrasher and Mountain Rage. All are great on their own regard, but you simply don't have enough levels and resources to accomplish all of this.

The issues with getting large is that your Dex goes down. As your Dex goes down, you get to make fewer AoOs with Combat Reflexes per round making that tactic less effective, which you spent one of your precious feats on. Also, when you are large, you have a 10' natural reach. A reach weapon doubles your natural reach. That means you also double your adjacent dead zone. The only way to get that back is to use an adjacent striking reach weapon. They are all exotic, so that's another feat. Then you have Expansion that you mentioned, which involves 3 levels + Practiced Manifester OR 7 levels. Otherwise you have to rely on Mountain Rage, which means you'll need to drop a feat on Extra Rage if you want to do it more than once per day. Then you have the charging combo. Power Attack + Imp Bull Rush + Shocktrooper + Leap Attack + your suggested Battle Jump (which is 1st level only). Oh, and Knockback. And then you have at least 2 Fighter levels which only give one feat because you have Dungeoncrasher I.

It would be great if you could fit it all in, but you can't. Even with amazing stats and two flaws, you still don't have all the resources to get this accomplished by 9th level. Its just too much.

[Hirax]

But I love my ice cream pizza! Seriously though, I think it works. You only lose out on 1 BAB, and with flaws you actually do have enough feats to fit everything at ninth level. If battle jump is approved since it's kinda ludicrous. Edit, oops, combat reflexes comes at 10th level. Combat reflexes is really just an afterthought from the 5th warblade level. You don't lose dex when you are large in a rage, and only lose 2 when huge. With the point buy allocation I suggested (16, -2 racial for 14) a +2 dex magic item would allow you 3 AOOs when huge, which is generally plenty imo. The biggest weakness of my build is the gimped maneuver progression imo. edit: and dumping skill points to qualify for practiced manifester

For convenience here's the [admittedly ludicrous] feat progression, since I'm muddling a lot of my explanations. If flaws are disallowed I'd ditch dungeoncrasher and battle jump (since if flaws are disallowed, battle jump probably also will be).

Flaw: battle jump
Flaw: power attack
1: Extra rage
P1 (2nd): imp bull rush
3: knockback
F1 (4th): spiked chain proficiency
P2 (5th): practiced manifester
F2 (6th): dungeoncrasher
6: leap attack
9: shock trooper
W5: Combat reflexes


Also, why is battle jump only a level 1 feat? I didn't see that in the feat entry. Is there a clause elsewhere in the book that says that about regional feats? That's good to know if it's true, if you're starting at level 1 that's basically a feat dump for the future, which would be painful until 6th level or so.

[Keld Denar]

Well, you have to swap PA and IBR...IBR requires PA.

[Hirax]

Ninjaed you with an edit. That's a terrible habit of mine, repeatedly editing posts right after I post them, for which I apologize to anyone that gets thrown off by the amorphous nature of my posts.

[Keld Denar]

Oh, and since you asked, there is a general rule that regional feats can only be taken at level 1.

[faceroll]

Actually, charging is a very viable tactic if you combine that tiger claw maneuver that lets you move a jump check worth of distance as a swift action.

Use the stance that gets you +10feet of jump, then jump straight up, and battle jump/leap attack/dungeon crash your way back to the ground.

[Dusto]

Ok, the Psychic Warrior isn't gonna fly, he doesn't like regular d20 stuff, just straight 3.5. I can for sure use ACF so I like the dungeoncrasher thing a lot with these builds. As for flaws from Uarc, he is deciding on them, but I'm not counting on him letting us take them for extra feats.

Again, thanks for all the ideas guys, I think I'm going to really enjoy the character much, much more this time around :)

Oh quick question, if I wanted to stay human, do you have any ideas on a build that way also? Thanks.

[Keld Denar]

Psionics is just as 3.5 as any other WotC content. Not arguing that your DM should use it (even though he should), just correcting your language. Its not a completely alternate system like d20 Modern or M&M or whatnot.

If you are human, consult with your DM about allowing Jotunbrud (FRCS) to qualify for Knockback. Its half of Powerful Build, giving you the size bonuses but not the larger weapons. You gain a bonus feat, spend it on that feat, and everything else stays the same.

Oh, and I'd highly highly highly recommend a reach weapon. A simple glaive will go a LONG way. If you do use one, you might have to either re-pick Mithril Tornado, or ask your DM to take a look at the wording and adjust it. As written, MT only works against adjacent foes. You can't even strike adjacent foes with most reach weapons. The way it SHOULD have been worded is "within your reach".

Reach weapons are great. They often result in at least ~1 extra AoO per combat, which is free damage. They also negate reach advantage against enemies like ogres who have natural reach, which is nice. As long as you don't get regularly enlarged, the 5' deadzone isn't a drawback for maneuvers since you can either 5' step or tumble into a position where you can maximally execute your strikes. The glory of ToB is that it relieves the reliance of melee on full attacking...embrace it!

[Dusto]

Oh ok, I'll have to re-look at that. Is Psychic Warrior out of one of 3.5 psionic books? If it is I can use that then.

Also yes, reach is very effective, in our other game my DM plays a very random rogue/scout/fighter/warblade/swordsage/crusader who uses a spike chain. He's not overly powerful at most things, but he's super effective at a lot.

[Hirax]

Psychic Warrior is from the Expanded Psionics handbook. The System Referenc Doc (http://www.d20srd.org/) (SRD for short) is all D&D 3.5 content made publicly available by Wizards of the Coast. It contains most, (but not all) of the content from the PHB, DMG, MM1, Expanded Psionics Handbook, Unearthed Arcana, and Epic Level Handbook. So anything on that page is fair game in a 3.5 D&D game, unless your DM says otherwise.

[Dusto]

Ok that works then, he does allow the base 3.5 psionic books for sure.

Thanks!

[Dusto]

Goliath

Warblade1/Fighter2/Warblade+7

1st Power attack
2nd Bonus Improved Bullrush
3rd Mage Slayer (CArc)
3rd Bonus Dungeoncrasher I (Dungeonscape)
6th Knockback (Races of Stone)
7th Bonus Blindfighting
9th Pierce Magical Concealment (CArc)

Manuevers
{table]Level|Class|IL|Gain|Lose|Stance
1|War1|1|Saphire Nightmare Blade, Wolf Fang Strike, Steel Wind||Hunter's Sense
2|Ftr1|1|||
3|Ftr2|2|||
4|War2|3|Mountain Hammer||
5|War3|4|Emerald Razor||
6|War4|5|Iron Heart Surge|Wolf Fang Strike|Absolute Steel
7|War5|6|Insightful Strike||
8|War6|7|Ruby Nightmare Blade|Saphire Nightmare Blade|
9|War7|8|Mithril Tornado||
10|War8|9|Dazing Strike|Steel Wind|
[/table]


For stats: Str > Con > Dex > Int > Wis > Cha

Ok, our other campaign is finally just about done, and going back to this campaign and making this character. Question on equipment. The DM is letting me keep my legacy weapon(which really isn't that grat, but I'm fine with it) and giving me roughly 22,500gp to spend on 'starting' equipment. My limitations are it has to be strictly from PHB1 and the DMG. Also I can't 'make' any weird equipment, just whatever the book normally alows. Finally I can't spend more than 11k on any single item(which makes no sense to me, but whatever). Obviously I'm going to need an animated shield so I can get the most out of power attacking with a 2h weapon, but what suggestions might anyone have besides that? Thanks much in advance!

[Keld Denar]

Proper threadiquette is to create a new thread, reference the old thread, link to the old thread, and quote any relevant parts. This avoids thread necromancy. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/announcement.php?a=1)

That said, again we need more info. What ECL are you? (I assume you are using my build?). What is your legacy weapon? Is it a reach weapon?

Standard cheap gear is important. +2 Str, +2 Con, +2-3 Resistance, +2 Dex, +1 or 2 Deflection, etc. Don't forget a ranged weapon like a nice +Str composite bow. Most of the "good" non-boring stuff in the DMG is expensive, and most of the "cheap" good stuff is in the MIC or other books.

[Dusto]

Ah, sorry my bad for sure!

The legacy weapon is +1, gives me some minor bonuses(the only one worth noting is constant protection from evil spell), and I can change it to any medium size weapon as a swift action. DM won't allow it to change to a large weapon without getting another ability added to it which sounds like he wants to do in-game.

ECL is 8, as the DM is not allowing LA buyoff. Trust me, I tried, but he's not budging.

I imagine I will need to buy mostly +2 stat and armor items, but seeing if perhaps there's anything I might be missing, or possibly buy for another character in the group(wand, scroll, etc...)

[Keld Denar]

Weapons "sizes" don't mean the same thing in 3.5 anymore like they did in 3.0. They have "levels of effort". Do you mean a medium weapon (as in a medium longsword or a medium greatsword), or do you mean a 1-handed weapon? Keep it though, persistant Protection from Evil is GOLDEN, since the 3rd clause of the spell keeps out like, 80% of negative will save spells. Its a mini-Mind Blank. It doesn't protect vs confusion or fear, but it does give nearly complete immunity against Charm and Dominate. Not bad for a free weapon.

Do the build as its presented, and ask your DM if the Jotunbrood feat (regional feat from Players Guide to Faerun) is similar enough to Powerful Build to allow you to qualify for Knockback. If so, go with Human, add Jotunbrood as your feat, and keep everything else the same.

Wands and scrolls are...ok. You probably won't be able to use them though, unless you invest in crossclass ranks in UMD. It might be courtious, however, to buy 1-2 Wands of Cure Light Wounds (or Lesser Vigor(CDivine) if you can get it, wands are in the DMG, but the spell for the wand is CDivine, so it SHOULD be allowed) and then hand them off to your party caster to heal you up out-of-combat. That way you aren't a burden on his spell resources, and you always start combat at or near full HP.

[Dusto]

I mean medium sized weapons. So at first I won't be able to take advantage of goliaths ability to use large weapons.

He had us yesterday set in stone what we are going with, so while I'd love to not have the LA and get an extra feat from human, I'm now 'stuck' with goliath. Which I'm kinda warming up to, and excited to see how the character works out.

You're spot on what I was thinking with the wands, they would be for our cleric or sorc to use for out of combat needs.

I'm currently trying to figure out a way to fit E.W.P. into the build and work towards Improved Critcal, but I think that's only going to happen if I scrap the PMC feats.

Edit: Oh and yes, the Protection from Evil has already saved me a few times from nastiness! :smallcool:

[Keld Denar]

What exotic weapon are you considering? Cause most of them aren't worth it. And the ones that are, still generally aren't. The only one that is worth it in most cases is the Spiked Chain, and thats simply because its actually cheaper and more efficient (damage-wise) to have one weapon than 2 (Guisarme + Armor Spikes), especially if you are trying to do control. If you are just going for PURE damage, stick with the Glaive + Armor Spikes will suite you just fine. For maneuvers like Insightful Strike, it doesn't matter if you are attacking with a dagger, a greatsword, or a paperclip. Keep one handy if you are worried about close combat with your reach weapon. Or just take a 5' step.

And again, what weapon are you considering with Imp Critical? Cause if it isn't a 17-20 weapon like a Falcion, its probably not worth it. The big x3 and x4 weapons don't result in the same statistical damage increase simply because the threat range is too small, and other weapons just don't get the same mileage. Plus, crits are pretty commonly resisted by a large number of creature types (undead, constructs, plants, oozes, anyone with Fortification, etc). Too much focus on crits is putting eggs in a basket you can't afford to carry.

[Hirax]

I'll second dumping improved critical. Unless you've picked a weapon with a broad threat range and are 100% sure a large chunk of your harder enemies won't have crit immunity, optimizing crits is a trap.

[Dusto]

I wasn't even thinking of that! This character definitely will not have answers or many for un-crittable monsters. Thanks :)

[Dusto]

Played around with the numbers a bit and I think this is going to get the most mileage for me with my equipment.

Cloak of the Manta Ray 7,200gp (pretty cheap for +3 NA and ended up being cheaper than a +1 animated shield)
Boots of Springing and Striding 5,500gp (I plan on mostly running around since the druid wants to tank as a master of many forms war troll)
+2 Chain Shirt 4,300gp (Speaks for itself)
Ring of Sustenance 2,500gp (Most of the rest of the party are casters of some sort who need 8 hours sleep, I'll end up on night watch a lot)

This leaves me with roughly 2,000gp+ to buy the rest of my standard equipment and have some left over money. Though I may still pick up a wand of Vigor for the cleric to use for out of combat healing.

[Malachei]

Keld Denar is right in asking for focus. It all depends on whether your ability scores and feats can support several strategies or just one.

Tome of Battle classes are wonderfully dippable, so entering Crusader for Thicket of Blades might be nice, especially if you have reach (you should, from Mountain Rage). Of course, you need a decent Dex and Combat Reflexes, then. Combined with Knockback, reach is a nice way to stop monsters with many attacks from full attacking you. Also, I like Stone Power in combination with Steely Resolve, because it lets you retroactively adjust a damage buffer, simulating 5 temporary hit points, renewable each round. It matters a lot lesss in higher level play, though, so, mechanically, it is probably not your best shot. If you're picking up two levels of Crusader, though, it might be worth picking up the feat.

If you go Shock Trooper, Leap Attack is an obvious choice.

For breadth of maneuvers: If you are not so keen on maximizing high-level maneuvers, dipping one level of Swordsage can give you the save-covering maneuvers, as well as others.

[Dusto]

I am considering doing exactly what you mention with a little Crusader and Swordsage. Crusader will be nice to pick up early things like Divine Surge and Swordsage for the save manuevers and maybe some teleport movement.

I am not going to do the reach/thicket of blades, at least not planning on it at this moment, mostly because that is what are DM's character was in the campaign we are wrapping up. Also I am not going shock trooper, going to stick with the PA/Dungeoncrasher combo(which I'm sure he's gonna have fits with after a game or two already, lol).

I have to be careful with XP penalties though, as this DM does stick to them. But if I eventually keep all my secondary classes(fighter/crusader/swordsage/?) at 3 or less, I should be good I believe.