Warblade kukri crit-fisher

[Half-orc Bard]

My question is why kukri they deal 1d4 damage why not have a rapier and a kukri

[Diarmuid]

Because feats like Improved Critical are weapon specific.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Because feats like Improved Critical are weapon specific.

But if you're smart, you won't take that feat, you'll spend some money to get keen weapons.

To answer the original question, weapon focus is one of the most solid feats there is. Not the best, but solid. And if you wield a rapier and kukri, you have to spend it twice, and a rapier only get +1 damage over the kukri.

[Telonius]

I think matters most when you have the Blade Meditation feat. It might make more sense to wield two kukris and go for Tiger Claw, then to go rapier/kukri and go for Diamond Mind. Tiger Claw generally has a lot of good boosts for two-weapon fighting, so this can synergize pretty well with boosts to your DC's.

[Reynard]

But if you're smart, you won't take that feat, you'll spend some money to get keen weapons.

But Keen is Slashing weapons only, so no to Keen Rapiers.


And Blade Meditation and Weapon Focus are terrible feats, you horrible horrible people you.

[Hiro Protagonest]

But Keen is Slashing weapons only, so no to Keen Rapiers.


And Blade Meditation and Weapon Focus are terrible feats, you horrible horrible people you.

Um... Vorpal is slashing only, keen can be used on slashing or piercing.

And while blade meditation is bad, how the heck is weapon focus bad!? There are better options, but there are far, far worse.

[Essence_of_War]

I would direct you to the Warblade Handbook where you can find an evaluation of the various feats available.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176968

Very broadly speaking, taking feats that provide a small static bonus to something are not as good as taking feats that provide you with new abilities and new options.

There is some disagreement about the weapon focus line though. I'll quote from the discussion:


Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Specialization - These four are the classic fighter feats, and thanks to Weapon Aptitude you have nearly exclusive access to them. Unfortunately, they're generally derided as utterly, totally, completely awful, as small, static bonuses don't usually compare with the benefits other feats provide.
But, in Runestar's words:
"These small bonuses are all the more meaningful in the hands of a martial adept.

One difference they have over a fighter is that if you build them around their standard action strikes, combat will typically involve 1 attack each round. Either you hit for a ton of damage, or you miss and don't deal anything. Compared to a fighter who can make 4-6 attacks each round. Assuming you hit with at least 1 attack, you should be doing at least a bit of damage each round.

This makes hitting (and by extension, all those attack bonuses) all the more crucial. Granted, the attack bonus from weapon spec/mastery isn't so attractive when you are limited to 1 attack/round (compared to a fighter's 4-6).

At least for me, I am willing to invest at least 3 feats to acquire melee weapon mastery, and maybe eventually work my way up to weapon supremacy."

Long story short: these feats are ok. Nothing more, maybe a little less. But they're functional, provide solid bonuses, always help, and are simple to keep track of. If you're into optimization, avoid them at all costs, but a warblade who focuses on these two feat trees is a perfectly playable one.

As they later point out, these dovetail very nicely into MWM, Slashing Fury, and Weapon Supremacy:

Melee Weapon Mastery – This is the reason you take Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization. Investing three feats into these can be an excellent choice, but after getting it this one I advise you to pull out.

Slashing Flurry – An extra attack is very nice, though the prereqs can be a drag.

Weapon Supremacy – You won’t qualify for this until 20th level, which means you won’t be able to take it until 21st. But if a friendly caster can spare a heroics spell, this is an brilliant candidate – and if you qualify, you should take it at 21st without a thought.

[mabriss lethe]

Dual kukri is also handy for swapping out a high crit range weapon for use in Lightning Mace shenanigans.

[Draz74]

My question is why kukri they deal 1d4 damage why not have a rapier and a kukri

Good question. If you're not going for Improved Critical, I actually think Rapier/Kukri could be a pretty viable style. Looks awfully funny when I picture it in action, though. :smallamused:


But if you're smart, you won't take that feat, you'll spend some money to get keen weapons.

False! Using a feat on Improved Critical instead of buying Keen actually is quite worthwhile to dedicated crit-fisher builds.

Applies to more than one Kukri without having to buy Keen over and over
Doesn't make other weapon enhancements more expensive
Works in antimagic field
Stacks with crit-based weapon enhancements like Slowing Burst and Enervating
Stacks with auto-confirm-crit buffs like Bless Weapon (the Paladin spell) or Sacred Scabbard

[Essence_of_War]

It's also of additional utility to the Warblade who can apply it to every weapon he wants to use as long as he gets some time to practice with it for a bit.

I'm fond of taking Exotic Weapon Prof. with my warblades for this ability to wield any weapon he encounters.

[Doc Roc]

However, I'm going to weigh in against weapon focus. If you have a spare feat for weapon focus, you are either extremely limited when it comes to your available sources, qualifying for something really good, or doing it wrong.

Compare it to travel or trickery devotion?

[Firechanter]

Also, this may be my own mileage here and be owed to some DM homebrews, but I find that Piercing is the weakest physical damage type, because it is most commonly resisted / reduced. Well, Skeletons and Golems obviously, but also others.
Slashing is resisted somewhat less often, and Bludgeoning only rarely. Which is why I consider B to be the best damage type and P the worst. Bludgeoning weapons usually have worse primary stats (damage/crit) but this makes up for it.

Again, YMMV.

That said, you could take your Dual Kukris, make them Aptitude weapons, buy Weapon Focus or something which makes Aptitude pay for itself, and then be abusive and slap on Lighting Mace. That should get you an extra attack or more pretty much every round.

(Personally, I never take Weapon Focus. I just made my Meteor Hammer an Aptitude weapon because the Exotic proficiency is enough to qualify for the extra +1/+1.)

[Hiro Protagonest]

However, I'm going to weigh in against weapon focus. If you have a spare feat for weapon focus, you are either extremely limited when it comes to your available sources, qualifying for something really good, or doing it wrong.

Compare it to travel or trickery devotion?

Two words: weapon aptitude. you can later swap out weapon focus (kukri) for weapon focus (light mace) so you can take the lightning mace feat.

[Greenish]

Two words: weapon aptitude. you can later swap out weapon focus (kukri) for weapon focus (light mace) so you can take the lightning mace feat.Wouldn't that count as "qualifying for something really good"?

[Curmudgeon]

Two words: weapon aptitude. you can later swap out weapon focus (kukri) for weapon focus (light mace) so you can take the lightning mace feat.
I'm not sure what you mean by "swap out" here. Are you talking about using the feat retraining rules in Player's Handbook II? Because this weapon special ability lets you apply the benefit of an appropriate weapon-specific feat to another weapon with aptitude, but does diddly to satisfy feat prerequisites.

[Siosilvar]

I'm not sure what you mean by "swap out" here. Are you talking about using the feat retraining rules in Player's Handbook II? Because this weapon special ability lets you apply the benefit of an appropriate weapon-specific feat to another weapon with aptitude, but does diddly to satisfy feat prerequisites.

The warblade's ability to trade out feats specific to single weapons, like Weapon Focus and Specialization, with a day (I think) of training.

Specifically, take WF(Kukri). Get Aptitude Kukris. Change the WF to WF(Light Mace). Since you have Aptitude kukris, it still works. And now you can take Lightning Maces since you have the proper Weapon Focus feat, and it should work with the kukris, according to at least one interpretation of Aptitude.

[Greenish]

The warblade's ability to trade out feats specific to single weapons, like Weapon Focus and Specialization, with a day (I think) of training.One hour of training in the morning.

Training in the afternoon obviously wouldn't work. :smalltongue:

[Curmudgeon]

Specifically, take WF(Kukri). Get Aptitude Kukris. Change the WF to WF(Light Mace).
So you're trying to stack the weapon ability aptitude and the Weapon Aptitude ability? It might work, but it's guaranteed to give your DM a pain in the brain. :smalltongue:

[Greenish]

So you're trying to stack the weapon ability aptitude and the Weapon Aptitude ability? It might work, but it's guaranteed to give your DM a pain in the brain. :smalltongue:A swordsage might use Insightful Strike to benefit from Insightful Strikes. Such things happen.

[Doc Roc]

Weapon focus, even if you can move it around in the morning, is still weaker than being in two places at once.

[GlorinSteampike]

Weapon focus, even if you can move it around in the morning, is still weaker than being in two places at once.

But weapon focus gives you THE Warblade crit fisher build.

Lightning mace by itself is kinda meh, because of the stats of Light Maces, but you slap kukri crit range on it, (ideally 15-20) and you're getting a lot more free attacks.

if you're making a Warblade crit fisher, Lightning Mace is generally the best way to go. Blood in the Water and lightning mace with kukri's is the best crit fisher I've seen outside of 3.0 and Dark Apostate

[Warlawk]

So you're trying to stack the weapon ability aptitude and the Weapon Aptitude ability? It might work, but it's guaranteed to give your DM a pain in the brain. :smalltongue:

Nope. Use the Weapon Aptitude feature to change to Weapon Focus: Light Mace so that you can qualify for Lightning Maces. Then you use Aptitude Kukris (which allow you to use them with feats requiring other weapons) so that you can wield a kukri and still use the lightning maces feat for free attacks on a threat.

[Feytalist]

Nope. Use the Weapon Aptitude feature to change to Weapon Focus: Light Mace so that you can qualify for Lightning Maces. Then you use Aptitude Kukris (which allow you to use them with feats requiring other weapons) so that you can wield a kukri and still use the lightning maces feat for free attacks on a threat.

Hmm. I always thought you start with Weapon Focus (light mace) so that you actually have the feat on your character sheet, go into Lightning Mace eventually, and then pick up two aptitude kukris and go to town. You don't then actually need Weapon Aptitude, although it is useful before getting aptitude weapons. Am I missing something?

[Big Fau]

Weapon Focus is good for two things: Prereqs for things like Lightning Maces, Vae School, and those 3 PH2 feats (Crushing Strike, Driving Attack, Slashing Flurry), and qualifying for double Weapon Mastery so you can get more than one of those three PH2 feats.

WF (Morning Star), WF (Spiked Chain), WF (Eagle's Claw), and if someone could point out a Bludgeoning/Slashing weapon I would appreciate it. Slashing Flurry+Crushing Strike is likely the best combination. In fact, if you can find a ranged weapon that deals both Bludgeoning and Slashing damage you can get a large number of attacks off. I don't think there are any, other than the Yuan-Ti Serpent Bow/Elvencraft Bow with the right arrows.

[Sith_Happens]

First off, thread is from 2011.

Secondly, the reason you use a main-hand kukri instead of a rapier is because of Bloodclaw Master. No attack penalty and full Strength to offhand damage as long as you wield a dagger or Tiger Claw weapon in both hands.

[JaronK]

Improved Critical is a prerequisite for a devastating crit based feat chain, IIRC from Libris Mortis, that ends in all enemies taking nasty fear effects any time you critically hit a living creature. That's one good reason to use that feat... and thus have dual Kukris. And honestly, Rapier just doesn't add enough to be worth it.

JaronK