Tetramorph Appropriate CR

[Otherworld Odd]

If anyone isn't familiar with this beast, he's in the MMII. He's listed as a CR 16, but that CAN'T be right. Absolutely positively can't be right. The playgroup that I'm DM'ing for is a group of five level 15's.

What is the appropriate CR for this monster? When should my group fight him?

Group:
Monk, Wildshape Ranger, Rogue, Tank Fighter, and a Cleric.

[Tvtyrant]

It has a lot of HP but it has an absolutely atrocious AC; your Fighter could full out PA without a chance of missing (other then 1s). Honestly your best bet here is to put up an AMF and wail on the thing, because its abilities are all SU. It does 4d6+14 on its single hit, and doesn't have any grabbing ability it could use against you without its SUs. As long as you can do 162 damage a round as a whole party you shouldn't be worried about losing a single member.

If you don't use an AMF tactic the fight will be really hard however, as it can fly and has powerful abilities. I would probably leave it at CR16 as has horrible AC and saves, and essentially sponges damage.

[LOTRfan]

Yeah, the Monster Manual II is full of messed up CRs. That's why we're having a read through here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187046) to fix them. It'll be a while until we reach this guy, so I'll do it here right now for your convenience. It seems that he is more like a CR 21 threat. I mean, the possibility of being launched into a random plane of existence every round? :smalleek:

The math
328 divided by 7 (28 HD): 46.85 (about 47)
Armor Class: 3 (-2)
Special Attacks: Entropic Touch, portalwake, warp reality (+3)
Special Qualities: Blindsight 240 ft., detect law, dimensional instability, immunities, ooze traits, Spell Resistance 32 (+11)
Bonus Feats: None (+0)
59 divided by 3: 19.666
End Result: CR 20 creature

[Tvtyrant]

Yeah, the Monster Manual II is full of messed up CRs. That's why we're having a read through here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187046) to fix them. It'll be a while until we reach this guy, so I'll do it here right now for your convenience. It seems that he is more like a CR 22 threat. I mean, the possibility of being launched into a random plane of existence every round? :smalleek:

The math
328 divided by 7 (28 HD): 46.85 (about 49)
Special Attacks: Entropic Touch, portalwake, warp reality (+6)
Special Qualities: Blindsight 240 ft., detect law, dimensional instability, immunities, ooze traits, Spell Resistance 32 (+11)
Bonus Feats: None (+0)
66 divided by 3: 22
End Result: CR 22 creature

But... It has no way to prevent AMF or being MMicked to death. A AMF+Charger will down this thing in a turn!

[LOTRfan]

That is correct, such a creature in an antimagic shield is mince meat.

Perhaps I did some of the math wrong... give me one second to check...

EDIT: I did, in fact, mess up the math a little, but it's still coming out as a high CR 19-low CR 20 monster.

[Tvtyrant]

It would be awful to fight normally, so I suppose it is CR 21-22. AMF: I love you so much!

[LOTRfan]

Its even worse when you realize they don't have feats. :smalleek:

When updating it to 3.5, giving it ten good feats can make this thing even tougher.

[hamishspence]

It's an ooze- they don't get feats even in 3.5.

[LOTRfan]

I'm sorry, its creatures with Int 1-2 that got feats in 3.5, my mistake.

[*.*.*.*]

It's an ooze- they don't get feats even in 3.5.

Could always make it a sentry ooze

[hamishspence]

I suppose one could add a template that can grant Intelligence- thus opening up feats.

[Otherworld Odd]

I was definitely worried about his special abilities.

The guy who introduced it to me (Darrin) explained him as such:

"For a "Final Boss Fight", a Teratomorph could be pretty interesting, although it would be a little like fighting an epic-level nuclear-powered Rod of Wonder: "Ok, this round, the ranger grows three tentacles out of his left earlobe. The druid was plane-shifted to the elemental plane of candy. The rogue got polymorphed into a ham-flavored watermelon with abandonment issues. The barbarian is still stuck hip-deep in the mud on the ceiling, which is now the floor again, and oh yeah... the mud is also on fire. Everybody save vs. trombones.""

[ffone]

But... It has no way to prevent AMF or being MMicked to death. A AMF+Charger will down this thing in a turn!


...because clearly CRs should be calibrated with the expectation that you always have the right spell prepared and know to use it (as if you already saw the thing's stat block - AMF disfavors PCs in many other encounters) AND have damage-optimizing PCs like ubercharger and metamagic mailman.

[Zaq]

I friggin' hate those things. My party ran into one once. Goddamn aura of Plane Shift (a Reflex save to resist? Seriously?!) knocked the plot off course for months.

How can a creature like that possibly even eat?! If there's one thing D&D oozes do, it's eat . . . but oops, looks like your prey's off on Gehenna now! Razzum frazzum MMII . . .

[Tvtyrant]

...because clearly CRs should be calibrated with the expectation that you always have the right spell prepared and know to use it (as if you already saw the thing's stat block - AMF disfavors PCs in many other encounters) AND have damage-optimizing PCs like ubercharger and metamagic mailman.

Ummm, its AMF. At level 15 at least someone should have it, even if its like an item that makes it. Otherwise Beholder pew pews the party two levels earlier. And even a normal Fighter with PA would PA everything they got, unless they have never seen an ooze before. Your right that at least someone would get hit before you would throw it up (unless you make a knowledge roll) but it hardly stretches the imagination that they would have or would use AMF.

[Otherworld Odd]

The best part about this is that I'm 99.9% sure that my party won't have AMF. The only reasonable spellcaster is the Cleric and it's his first time playing one. This is going to be hilarious. :smallamused:


Edit: Also, i doubt they'll think of it for an item. I might have to throw some hints their way.