The ______Pocolypse

[Marxism]

What undead creature would be the best for producing a zombie apocalypse feeling that would actually work in 3.5. Because lets be honest a zombie or even a bunch are nothing to a 5th level character and they have no way to grow. So Here is what I have in mind

Vampires
Pro's
-boss monsters easy to create the little ones are still a threat and auto reproduce
-An actual threat to higher level characters due to only needing to land a melee attack and you get a negative level
Con's
-Too many weaknesses
-once again too many weaknesses that are balanced i.e can climb walls but can't enter buildings
-Intelligent and therefore reasonable and too deadly/too many options that are morally questionable like the paladin not wanting to kill them because they are still sentient or whatever

Wights
Pro's
-most of the vamp stuff

Con's
-boss monsters are harder to create and unrealistic.

My challenge to you guys is to find a race that works or find a way to make these work. Good Luck!

[Boci]

Does it have to be a single type of undead? Also zombies can be advanced by applying the template to different creatures. Hydras, wyverns, ect.

[Tiki Snakes]

Other than the standard Wight or Shadow-Pocalypse, I take it?

[The Glyphstone]

Why are wight 'boss monsters' unrealistic? Wights have Int 11 base, there is nothing that stops them from taking class levels. Heck, they have a +4 racial bonus to Charisma, a Wight Sorcerer with the Elite Array could be a very scary "boss monster", being a full-caster on d12HD, and taking full advantage of the non-associated class levels rule (A Wight Sorcerer 4 = CR 5, Wight Sorcerer 6 = CR7, scales from there.)

[Tvtyrant]

Wendigos are a good example of a monster race that can be used this way. Big, strong, vicious and turns other creatures into Wendigos.

[Golden-Esque]

My challenge to you guys is to find a race that works or find a way to make these work. Good Luck!

Like most problems, Pathfinder has a solution for you. In the Pathfinder Bestiary, the developers added a special alternative zombie called the plague zombie. You can see the entry for yourself here. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/zombie) Even better, the plague zombie template doesn't further increase the creature's CR beyond that of the normal zombie template; you just trade the damage reduction for the awesome plague ability. Since its a template, its relatively easy to make boss monsters. Enjoy!

[Boci]

(Wight Sorcerer 6 = CR7, scales from there.)

Shouldn't that be CR: 6?

[Doc Roc]

When Lich Hordes Attack!

[gallagher]

When Chicken Infested Half Dragon-Half Gnome Lich Hordes Attack!

fixed it for you

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Spectres work, and are quite nasty to boot. With +4 Int/Wis/Cha and being Incorporeal, a boss with spellcasting will be downright mean and your options are completely open. Plus it can get 7 levels of nonassociated spellcasting for only +3 CR (rounds down).

Intellect Devourers could be fun, in a killing-things-with-a-crowbar kind of way. You would have to include a Telekinesis Gun.

[Bhaakon]

Ghouls are an obvious choice, since they're mindlessly aggressive (though definitely not mindless) and they can spread their condition, but even ghasts aren't that huge a challenge to anything but low levels. Hmm. Looking at their sheet, it says that they can infect any humanoid, possibly including giant humanoids? A cloud of ghoul sprites would be hilarious and potentially deadly, like a school of flying piranha, each their own paralyzing attacks. There's a possibility for some 28 Days Later action here if you're willing to go beyond the on the page creature.

[mabriss lethe]

If you want a higher level challenge for the wight, There's always the slaughterwight in... (I don't recall if it's in HoH or Libris Mortis)

A wight Crusader could be pretty scary if you combined maneuvers with its energy draining slam attack.

[Optimator]

I did this once and I used Ghouls and advanced ghouls. Worked pretty well.

[Coidzor]

Spectres work, and are quite nasty to boot. With +4 Int/Wis/Cha and being Incorporeal, a boss with spellcasting will be downright mean and your options are completely open. Plus it can get 7 levels of nonassociated spellcasting for only +3 CR (rounds down).

Also there's a template for applying it to non-humanoids called Spectral, I believe.

Can't remember if there's one of those for non-humanoid wights though.

[SiuiS]

Give zombies a bigger bite attack (use monk unarmed progression starting at d6/d8), be willing to advance their hit dice, up movement to 60', and give them fast healing only when at negatives. Throw on a disease to spread zombie infection.

Alternately, ghouls. Ghoul touched let's you make a ghoul about near anything. You're DM, mix stuff up. Find a monster that sounds like it would work (use thegiant from Heroes of Horror that gets stronger when it eats corpses) and change it to undead. Say it's a new type of monster they've never seen before.

[Kurgan]

If you are interested in Wights, some people from this forum turned the standard Monster Manual version of it into a template. Here it is. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4382664&postcount=18) Now, go forth and send out your hordes of wight dragons. You could even go with White Wight Dragons if you are interested in alliteration.

[TroubleBrewing]

I just had a player try and use the Locate City/Fell Drain Wightpocalypse bomb on my capital city in-game.

I had a literal NPC rules lawyer show up and chatter at him incessantly about 'RAW vs. RAI' and the history of the controversy until he agreed to Cease and Desist.

[Alleran]

Con's
-Too many weaknesses
-once again too many weaknesses that are balanced i.e can climb walls but can't enter buildings
-Intelligent and therefore reasonable and too deadly/too many options that are morally questionable like the paladin not wanting to kill them because they are still sentient or whatever
To the first two, try this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20021018a). Perfect for adding power to vampires. It also takes away most of their weaknesses and makes them really, really hard to keep dead (after all, all a vampire lord needs is some minions to go through the resurrection process, and he can just keep on coming back). For extra boosts, apply a few instances of the Evolved Undead template from Libris Mortis.

To the third, they're vampires. Evil, walking, talking, blood-sucking undead. I'd be surprised if a Paladin didn't smite first and ask questions later.

[TroubleBrewing]

I'd be surprised if a Paladin didn't smite first and ask questions later.

Yeah, but Lawful Stupid is FUN!

[CTrees]

I just had a player try and use the Locate City/Fell Drain Wightpocalypse bomb on my capital city in-game.

I had a literal NPC rules lawyer show up and chatter at him incessantly about 'RAW vs. RAI' and the history of the controversy until he agreed to Cease and Desist.

I was going to suggest an (NPC generated) Locate City Bomb - Wight flavor. Gets all your wights active and spreading, sets up your big bad (the guy who did it), and as stated, wights can have character levels, and other creatures can be wights... I would love to see the looks on the faces of a group of PCs when they realize that what they thought was a white dragon attacking them is actually a wight dragon... :smallbiggrin:

[The Boz]

Chicken Infested Necromancer
Infinite Undead Dire Chickens.

[The Glyphstone]

Shouldn't that be CR: 6?

Unfortunately, no. A Wight is 4HD, CR3 base. Sorcerer is initially non-associated, so you can add 4 Sorcerer levels for only +2 CR. After that point, its Sorcerer levels exceed its racial HD, so they now add CR at a 1-1 ratio.

Wight:CR3
Wight Sorcerer 2: CR4
Wight Sorcerer 4: CR5
Wight Sorcerer 5: CR6
Wight Sorcerer 6: CR7
Wight Sorcerer 7: CR8

[DwarfFighter]

I would love to see the looks on the faces of a group of PCs when they realize that what they thought was a white dragon attacking them is actually a wight dragon... :smallbiggrin:

Chuckle-worthy!

-DF

[Kol Korran]

I was going to suggest an (NPC generated) Locate I would love to see the looks on the faces of a group of PCs when they realize that what they thought was a white dragon attacking them is actually a wight dragon... :smallbiggrin:

that was actually done once, in an old campaign journal from the creator of the sundless citadel and other similar adventures. the Red Wight dragon was guarding the lair of a vampire if i believe. and the party got totally surprised that it breathed fire. (this is in the days of 3.0, before energy substitution i think)

on a more related note OP- check my sig of the monster compendium. one of the writers changed the Wight into a template, that can be applied to many types of creatures. check it out, i think it would work well.

[Undercroft]

If you want standard zombies with a bit more durability, the Strahd Zombies from ravenloft have a nifty ability.
IIRC if an attack would kill them you roll a d20 and if it's 11 or up they shrug off the damage and keep coming. A nice way to turn low hp weak undead into something more annoying.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

spawn of kyuss mm2 or is it 3?Their significantly stronger than zombies and they place a worm that turns them into SoK in there victim with every attack and they can also throw them. I beleive the save is around 20 so it won't be trivial at mid levels considering it will need to be made after every attack.

Oh, and they have zombie like appearance and behavior.

[Doc Roc]

Yeah, but Lawful Stupid is FUN!

Lawful Spiteful is better. Rocpocalypse!

[Undercroft]

just remembered the MM has Ghouls too :smalltongue:
Maybe throw some ghouls at them but call/describe them as zombies?

[navar100]

As a variant, use Magic Incarnum's Lost template for rage and mimic "28 Days Later". Perhaps a magic duel created a Living Spell out of a Rage spell which is the original source for the first Lost infected.

[JonestheSpy]

Don't forget the Kenderpocolypse. Breed like rabbits, those little buggers.

[AslanCross]

I would love to see the looks on the faces of a group of PCs when they realize that what they thought was a white dragon attacking them is actually a wight dragon... :smallbiggrin:

(PC Cleric) WHY ISN'T PROTECTION FROM ENERGY: COLD WORKING?!?!
(PC Wizard) CURSE YOU, HOMOPHONES!

[Urpriest]

Wights work fine. I also like Bodaks, but IIRC they take longer to spawn things. Don't forget that in a Zombiepocalypse campaign, you don't really need "boss monsters" per se. The whole point of the genre is that the enemies win by weight of numbers and the unpreparedness of the populace. Parts of a 'pocalypse shouldn't be a threat to high level characters.

[Alleran]

Don't forget the Kenderpocolypse. Breed like rabbits, those little buggers.
Did you know that if you cast Apocalypse from the Sky on the kender homeland, it's actually a [Good] spell? I read it in the rules somewhere. :smallbiggrin:

[TroubleBrewing]

Did you know that if you cast Apocalypse from the Sky on the kender homeland, it's actually a [Good] spell? I read it in the rules somewhere. :smallbiggrin:

Seems like I've read the same thing somewhere. Yeah, this is totally RAW.

[Coidzor]

Don't forget the Kenderpocolypse. Breed like rabbits, those little buggers.

Well, that's what the Tarrasque is for, he keeps the population more or less in check.

[JonestheSpy]

Well, that's what the Tarrasque is for, he keeps the population more or less in check.

Oh, now THAT'S a campaign idea waiting to happen. Players want to strut their stuff by taking out the Tarrasque, then find themselves drowning in tribbleskender...

[Coidzor]

Oh, now THAT'S a campaign idea waiting to happen. Players want to strut their stuff by taking out the Tarrasque, then find themselves drowning in tribbleskender...

So they have to go to the Plane of Tarrasques in order to pick out a new one? :smallbiggrin:

[Hand_of_Vecna]

love the living spell idea. I'll probably use that in a low level game so maybe a living fell animate something or just a living animate dead or create undead.

[CTrees]

Don't forget that in a Zombiepocalypse campaign, you don't really need "boss monsters" per se. The whole point of the genre is that the enemies win by weight of numbers and the unpreparedness of the populace. Parts of a 'pocalypse shouldn't be a threat to high level characters.


Oooh... idea... So, two starting ideas for the, let's say wightpocalypse campaign:

1) A group of villains was attempting to start this wightpocalypse, hoping to use it for control of the world. Gets out of hand, they can't control it, or even, the lieutenants kill the crazy master after realizing what the real plan is. The PCs track them down eventually, only to be begged for help putting the pale, necrotic genie back in the bottle, or, if they just go in a-killin', have them steamroll the supposed bosses, only to realize that did nothing to even slow down the spread of the wights, and that, while tough, the instigators were not the real problem.

2) The PCs, at a lower level, take out a necromancer and his retinue. Then they go on another brief adventure, but during that time? Well, they didn't quite wipe out all of the necromancer's experiments, and, with the dungeon doors left wide open, several wights escaped to nearby villages. Entire villages converted to wights, the plague/wightpocalypse has reached a critical mass where it's spreading faster than the wights can be killed, and it's all the fault of the PCs not being thorough enough... No boss to fight, but the initial word of the PCs killing the necromancer would have spread, so suddenly the entire populace would be blaming them for what's going on...

Mwahahahaha

[faceroll]

Unfortunately, no. A Wight is 4HD, CR3 base. Sorcerer is initially non-associated, so you can add 4 Sorcerer levels for only +2 CR. After that point, its Sorcerer levels exceed its racial HD, so they now add CR at a 1-1 ratio.

Wight:CR3
Wight Sorcerer 2: CR4
Wight Sorcerer 4: CR5
Wight Sorcerer 5: CR6
Wight Sorcerer 6: CR7
Wight Sorcerer 7: CR8

Advanced wight (8 HD) has CR 5. Add 8 sorcerer levels, CR 9. Has 16 HD.

[Fiat Lux]

I actually ran something quite similar to this about a year ago and was faced with roughly the same problem: individual, basic zombies do not present a sufficient challenge to 5th-level adventurers. I dealt with this by adding the mob template (DMG II p. 59) to represent large groups of zombies; clocking in at CR 8, they pick up Expert Grappler and a trample attack and are much more representative of the threat posed by a large number of zombies all attacking at once. Much better for a zombie apocalypse campaign's bread and butter, although I was careful to leaven with more interesting undead (death knights, liches, an eye of fear and flame...).

Also, I added the Fast Zombie template from Libris Mortis, which works wonderfully for a 28 Days Later or Zack Snyder's Dawn of the Dead feel. You should have seen the looks on my players' faces when the first quartet of zombies they encountered sprinted fifty feet and pounced on the archivist. Priceless. :smallamused:

[The Glyphstone]

Advanced wight (8 HD) has CR 5. Add 8 sorcerer levels, CR 9. Has 16 HD.

Now that's just mean.:smallbiggrin:

[Tokuhara]

I love the zombie apocalypse setup, but here's my 2c:

The problem with zombies is that they are based on the old Dawn of the Dead zombies (slow, shambling, brain-eating damage sponges). I would give most of the zombies the Quick template so they acted more like the I am Legend/L4D zombies (I already realize that I am Legend's "zombies" aren't real "zombies"), and have stronger undead leading them, mostly Psychic/Savage Vampires and Gravetouched Ghasts. If you really wanted to, you could have the cause of this undead uprising to be from a Homebrewed Elder Evil (perhaps a Yuan-ti Anathema Lich) that was kept in seclusion for millennia. Perhaps, a Cancer Mage accidentally created a virus that turned the living into zombies, and he desperately wants to undo this destruction, since with a savage undead populous who in a heartbeat would rip you to shreds, what is there to rule? Who knows? It's your campaign afterall

[Sir_Wulf]

I prefer to mix the undead found in my hideous undead horde, assuming that some who catch ghoul fever fail to become full fledged ghouls. Others react strangely to the alchemists’ improvised anti-plague serums, becoming more powerful forms of zombie.

A series of encounters meant to give a 5th level party (5 PCs) a healthy zombie apocalypse workout:

Opening: The PCs hear of an outbreak of some dread disease in the run-down warrens of the city’s worst district. The watch’s full force is diverted to enforcing quarantine and putting down those apparently “maddened by the disease”. Local clergy are overrun by those who fear they have been exposed. The party’s patrons send them to help evacuate allies and family near the quarantine area.

Encounter One (EL 5): A rat swarm flees from the sewers, closely pursued by plague zombie dire rats. As the panicked rats engulf the party, six of the dire rat zombies attack on their heels. Several more scatter, infecting other people in the area.
Their stats can be built from the template at: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/zombie.html

Encounter Two (EL 4): Before the party gets far, a pair of ravenous ghasts approach them, shrouded in beggars’ rags and hoarsely begging for food. These former mendicants escaped the cordon by clambering over a rooftop.

Encounter Three (EL6): Four fallen guards stalk the streets, the plague-infested dead of the collapsed quarantine. The party faces heavily-armored plague zombies stumbling along the street with their plague zombie warhorses (4).

Encounter Four (EL 1): A band of desperate noncombatants appears, begging for the party’s protection. A couple of the refugees are more greedy than desperate, seeking to grab valuables from the party, then escape in the chaos. Several others have been exposed to the zombie plague and may transmit it to others.

One of the refugees saw a group of undead in the streets nearby, commanding other nearby undead and apparently leading organized efforts to defeat troops trying to contain the plague. These sinister leaders serve a dark power of undead or plagues: Their undead forms remain as cunning and potent as they were in life.

Encounter Five (EL 7): If the PCs hope to stop the disease’s spread, they must overcome a dread ghast dragon bloodline sorcerer (lvl 6) with a pair of 2nd level dread ghast fighters as bodyguards. The undead plan to contaminate the city’s wells with undead flesh, making each one a potential source of the plague.

The dread ghast template:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/thom-s-lab/dread-ghast-template-1