Non-Combat Challenges For Evil Party?

[Dralnu]

In my evil campaign that I've been running, the party has solved every problem they've come across with gratuitous violence. There have been a few attempts at stealth, but each of those failed and led directly to destroying everything in the nearby vicinity. Even the inns they stay at they end up massacring.

While this is fine, I'd like to mix things up a bit. They're currently on their way to a frozen wasteland called Frostwyrm Peaks to find a secret organization called The Order of the Sacred Seal for information. How do I challenge them outside of pure combat?

They're evil lvl 8 PCs: warblade, favored soul, assassin, scout.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

There's always the traditional "Group so powerful they can kill you, don't piss them off" method...

Anything where they have to impress/win the trust of a good character. Maybe a paladin or something is the only person in the world who knows where to find what they're looking for; they have to adventure with him for a while without letting their alignments slip (if none of them have anti-detect-evil spells, I think there are ways around such).

Hmm... I remember a town in Neverwinter Nights, the entire village had been cursed following some evil baby-slaughtering ritual that got pulled in the castle. Nothing changed there- if you killed a peasant they'd respawn, they'd forget everything you said to them within a few minutes, etc. Do something like that, where combat is useless until you've worked through a few layers of mystery/illusion.

For a brief thing, you might give them a quest that *requires* them to be stealthy, in order to succeed (and which your campaign can survive if they fail).

Say, there's a small dungeon built around an incredibly fragile crystal artifact (that they could draw non-crystal power from); it's guarded entirely by monks who have sworn themselves to silence, as any loud noise would shatter the thing. You get the idea.

...for bonus points, make it an artifact still made by a mad dwarven wizard- if the party can get to it relatively undamaged, they can get some sort of super-potions out of it, but every bit of screaming, clanging and explosions in the area makes part of it break, and limits what it can create.

Or maybe that's silly.

[Geigan]

Alignments? Evil obviously, but lawful, chaotic, or neutral?

I'd say the only way is to put em somewhere where violence won't work. People will tend to favor a tool if it works for every situation. Something like an overwhelming organization that cannot be taken head on by a small party. They'll have to make deals behind backs and under tables. Gain allies that they can set toward taking down the operation. Precise violence and assassination will be more effective(and more interesting) than just bashing their front door down.

Manipulation is one of my favorite pastimes as an evil character. It may sound like boring political intrigue, but intrigue is mainly boring because moral standards keep you from doing things drastically. You're evil, you don't have to play by those rules anymore.:smallamused:

[Dralnu]

There's always the traditional "Group so powerful they can kill you, don't piss them off" method...

I plan on throwing a celestial death squad at them that they need to evade. I'm just afraid that they're too cocky and will try to take any Superpowered Baddie head on.


Anything where they have to impress/win the trust of a good character. Maybe a paladin or something is the only person in the world who knows where to find what they're looking for; they have to adventure with him for a while without letting their alignments slip (if none of them have anti-detect-evil spells, I think there are ways around such).

I like this a lot. They actually don't know how to find the Order and going to the area blind. If they meet a paladin along the way that is going to the Order, they could be forced to befriend him until they reach the place. For added insult, the paladin could force them to do good deeds along the way! :smallbiggrin:

How do they get around the whole Detect Evil thing though? They have no ways of avoiding it and the Scout is a drow.


Hmm... I remember a town in Neverwinter Nights, the entire village had been cursed following some evil baby-slaughtering ritual that got pulled in the castle. Nothing changed there- if you killed a peasant they'd respawn, they'd forget everything you said to them within a few minutes, etc. Do something like that, where combat is useless until you've worked through a few layers of mystery/illusion.

That would be hilarious. Like a groundhog day thing. Not sure how it'd fit though.


For a brief thing, you might give them a quest that *requires* them to be stealthy, in order to succeed (and which your campaign can survive if they fail).

I tried... They end up failing miserably and resort to killing everything.


Say, there's a small dungeon built around an incredibly fragile crystal artifact (that they could draw non-crystal power from); it's guarded entirely by monks who have sworn themselves to silence, as any loud noise would shatter the thing. You get the idea.

...for bonus points, make it an artifact still made by a mad dwarven wizard- if the party can get to it relatively undamaged, they can get some sort of super-potions out of it, but every bit of screaming, clanging and explosions in the area makes part of it break, and limits what it can create.

I like this. :smallamused:


Alignments? Evil obviously, but lawful, chaotic, or neutral?

All over the spectrum but it usually doesn't matter. They initially attempt to be covert but immediately switch to violence if they come across any difficult obstacles.

In the long run, they must conquer a mighty elven kingdom with a meager army, so infiltration and assassination is highly encouraged there. I'm not sure how that will play out at the moment.


I'd like the Order of the Sacred Seal to put the PCs through "trials," aka your stereotypical dungeon of puzzles. The problem is I don't have non-combat puzzles in my brain. I wish there was an online resource I could blatantly steal from to solve that.

[olejars]

...

I'd like the Order of the Sacred Seal to put the PCs through "trials," aka your stereotypical dungeon of puzzles. The problem is I don't have non-combat puzzles in my brain. I wish there was an online resource I could blatantly steal from to solve that.

Check out the Book of Challenges. Should be some usable stuff in there for you.

[faceroll]

A great wyrm wants to play a game with them or whatever, they start trouble, it just eats one of them. After they burn in stomach acid for a bit, the dragon spits them up.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Hmm... I'm trying to remember the durations on the fake/undetectable alignment things. If they worked fast, they might be able to pay a friendly evil wizard/beguiler to mask their true alignments for days/level. If not, I think that thing from OOTS w/ Roy and Miko (i.e., holding a powerful item of the opposite alignment, thus fooling the detection) actually works- you could have them come into a set of "powerful" good-aligned items, whose only tapable power would be to mask their alignment... wait...

Ok, Idea: the above-mentioned items do have *very* powerful effects, but they aren't usable by evil characters. So, for another challenge, if they want to get any play out of them, they have to manipulate good people into doing it for them.

If worse comes to worse those, you could always have some DM-fiat to stop them from getting detected by this particular paladin- he got magically blinded or something.

Oh, another option for non-combat enemies- have an enemy boss who's actually intelligent (i.e., does stuff besides sit in his throne room and wait for them to attack). If they're having to defend themselves against a powerful, proactive and intelligent enemy who refuses to match them strength-for-strength, it might force them to adjust their tactics.

[Gamer Girl]

Make Things Tough--This is really the best way to go. Avoid lots of weak targets for them to mow through. Make everything a hard target. The idea is to make them wary of using up resources and taking damage, especially for pointless stuff.

So if an Inn is run by half-blue dragon dwarves, they will be wary. after all if they attack a waitress they will have to face 10+ lightning bolt breath weapons( in one round).

You don't want to kill the characters, it's more about having them waste things. If they kill 15 folks and then have to use 75% of their healing up, it's not worth it. The same way if they have to use 75% of their special abilities/spells 'just' to kill a barkeep, they will just skip it.

Getting Nothing--Works only half the time. If they get nothing from a kill, like the loot is five wooden coins, they will stop doing it. However, lots of evil folk just like to kill to kill. But note this works great with Making Things Tough as not only will they use up stuff but won't get any loot to replace it with...

Say they wipe out a whole castle of something tough. They use up 75% of their stuff, plus consumables, plus they are wounded. But for loot they just get a pile of silver coins and one ogre sized left boot. Now they are stuck on how to replace what they used.

More Trouble Then It's Worth--You make killing a bad idea. This works best on a more Cosmic level then a down to Earth level. If you have innkeeper #2 refuse to give them a room as he heard about inn #1, it's kind of pointless as they will just kill him. But if you make it more Cosmic, they have no choice but to notice. For example, if all the gods put them on the 'do not help' list.

This can also work with lots of role-playing. If they slaughter tons of elves, and then walk over to the elf king as only he knows the secret, they won't get much help.

Ticking Clock--They have a time limit. They simply can't waste the time to kill nobodies.

The Foes--Give them a foe or two. Some good, some bad, some just for random reasons. The idea is to give them a foe that could strike at any time. And this works great with Making Things Tough, as the foe will be sure to attack when they are weak.

The Cool Extreme--Make things Cool, like:

The next inn is a tame building mimic. At least it's tame as long as no blood is spilled inside it...but if that happens

The next inn is on another plane, and the workers are linked to the magic that holds the inn where it is...kill a couple and the inn will be, lost in space

The inn is run by demons or such

[HalfDragonCube]

Say, there's a small dungeon built around an incredibly fragile crystal artifact (that they could draw non-crystal power from); it's guarded entirely by monks who have sworn themselves to silence, as any loud noise would shatter the thing. You get the idea.

...for bonus points, make it an artifact still made by a mad dwarven wizard- if the party can get to it relatively undamaged, they can get some sort of super-potions out of it, but every bit of screaming, clanging and explosions in the area makes part of it break, and limits what it can create.

'Move silently checks please.'
'I GOT A 4!'
'You just failed the encounter.'

Good idea, but needs work.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

'Move silently checks please.'
'I GOT A 4!'
'You just failed the encounter.'

Good idea, but needs work.

Well, it doesn't have to be *that* fragile. There's a big difference between "Being unsuccesfull at moving quietly" and "Raging battle complete with swords-on-shields and exploding fireballs".

If the best stealthy plan a group comes up with is "Roll hide and move silently", they really aren't cut out for stealth as *players*- a good plan for this would involve, you know, quiet distractions, the occasional silent spell, maybe having a real fight or two but having to restrict yourselves to unarmed strikes.