Gestalt Variants

[Fax Celestis]

I submit the following gestalt variants to the masses.

1. Minimal Gestalt: A character receives a level in another class in addition to his own (as if he were a gestalt character) every three levels.

This intrigues me, because it'd allow a fighter to have some levels in sorceror, or have a ranger have a few levels in druid. Just something they picked up over time.

2. Racial Gestalt: Mostly designed for situations where all characters are playing nonstandard races with large Level Adjustments (such as a celestial game). Instead of taking levels in a character class and levels in a racial class (a la Savage Species), they would receive levels in both racial and class levels (as if they were gestalting in them). Upon reaching the maximum racial level, the DM has the choice to progress the racial levels further or to simply have them cease.

This I like, because there's a lot of creatures with huge LAs that I'd like to play as in specifically themed games.

3. Magical Gestalt: Every other level, all character classes that don't already have spellcasting abilities gain one level in Sorceror, as if they were a gestalt character.

This makes magical abilities far more common, especially at lower levels, and could theoretically be used as the basis of a high-magic campaign. One could also replace "sorceror" with "cleric" for a high-divine game, or with "psion" for a high-psionics game.

[Lord Iames Osari]

This has great nift.

[Gralamin]

I submit the following gestalt variants to the masses.

1. Minimal Gestalt: A character receives a level in another class in addition to his own (as if he were a gestalt character) every three levels.

This intrigues me, because it'd allow a fighter to have some levels in sorceror, or have a ranger have a few levels in druid. Just something they picked up over time.
This is intresting and certainly could make role playing sense (meaning a little bit of increase that is limited by role playing), such as a fighter watching and questioning the wizard about his spells in between training sessions.


2. Racial Gestalt: Mostly designed for situations where all characters are playing nonstandard races with large Level Adjustments (such as a celestial game). Instead of taking levels in a character class and levels in a racial class (a la Savage Species), they would receive levels in both racial and class levels (as if they were gestalting in them). Upon reaching the maximum racial level, the DM has the choice to progress the racial levels further or to simply have them cease.

This I like, because there's a lot of creatures with huge LAs that I'd like to play as in specifically themed games.

this is severly imbalanced, maybe a calass ever 2 or 3 levels but not every level.


3. Magical Gestalt: Every other level, all character classes that don't already have spellcasting abilities gain one level in Sorceror, as if they were a gestalt character.

This makes magical abilities far more common, especially at lower levels, and could theoretically be used as the basis of a high-magic campaign. One could also replace "sorceror" with "cleric" for a high-divine game, or with "psion" for a high-psionics game.
This one also sounds good.

[TheOOB]

All three of these varients could work very well, so long as everyone in the campaign setting uses them. I really like the racial gestalt varient, but if you used that there would really be no disadvantage for taking a bunch of templates (I wanna play a half-celestial/half-fiend/half-dragon/lycanthropic bear/drow)!

of course, you could always make it so people who dont have LA/racial adjustments get levels in their racial paragon class instead.

EDIT: The magical gestalt would have to be a bit more specific about who gets the sorc caster levels. Only four core classes don't gain spells, and of them one has a host of magical abilities (monk), and one has Use Magic Device as a class skill (rogue). Would a paladin or ranger qualify for these sorc levels, or a hexblade? Is a duskblade past the "cut-off" point?

[Fax Celestis]

The racial gestalt thing was something I came up with when fronted with the issue of wanting to run a game of all celestials.

And most celestials have like 8 HD and an LA +7. Spread that out over 15 levels, add a little booster up to 20, and you've got a racial class.

And the whole point would be for everyone to use them, honestly. It's for a celestials game, where everyone's an angel.

Finally, of course there'd have to be some limitation. For one, you'd have to be able to get all of your LA abilities into 20 levels. For another, there's a point when a DM says, "that's just cheesy". And for a third, I have a personal rule: No More Than Two Templates.

[Fax Celestis]

The magical gestalt would have to be a bit more specific about who gets the sorc caster levels. Only four core classes don't gain spells, and of them one has a host of magical abilities (monk), and one has Use Magic Device as a class skill (rogue). Would a paladin or ranger qualify for these sorc levels, or a hexblade? Is a duskblade past the "cut-off" point?
Good question.

I'd say UMD means you qualify for the extra levels and having innate spellcasting that progresses beyond 5th level spells does not. Of course, that'd require some tinkering to perfect. As for the monk, I've replaced it with my Brawler class for the most part at this point. Less twinkery and more sense. Especially since my campaign doesn't include an "asia".

[Gralamin]

The racial gestalt thing was something I came up with when fronted with the issue of wanting to run a game of all celestials.

And most celestials have like 8 HD and an LA +7. Spread that out over 15 levels, add a little booster up to 20, and you've got a racial class.

And the whole point would be for everyone to use them, honestly. It's for a celestials game, where everyone's an angel.

Finally, of course there'd have to be some limitation. For one, you'd have to be able to get all of your LA abilities into 20 levels. For another, there's a point when a DM says, "that's just cheesy". And for a third, I have a personal rule: No More Than Two Templates.

Your generous with templates, I say no more then 1 to start, with the chance of aquiring something like lich later on.

[Fax Celestis]

Your generous with templates, I say no more then 1 to start, with the chance of aquiring something like lich later on.
I also play with people who don't like (and in some cases, don't understand) templates.

[storybookknight]

The thing with Racial HD is that individual creatures can never increase their racial HD, except for Barghests, who have a special circumstance. Racial HD is there for creatures who are stronger than average members of their species.

[Fax Celestis]

The thing with Racial HD is that individual creatures can never increase their racial HD, except for Barghests, who have a special circumstance. Racial HD is there for creatures who are stronger than average members of their species.
And the assumption I've been under for the entire time I've played D&D is that the PCs are stronger than average. Since this'd be used by PCs, I don't seen an issue.

[JaronK]

Some other fun varients along similar lines:

1: NPC Gestalt Classes: You may add one NPC class as a Gestalt level to each of your normal levels, but you can only pick one such class per character. For example, a Fighter who wanted better skills could have Expert tacked on to each level. This method provides for a lot more flexibility of characters, but isn't all that powerful. Available NPC classes are Expert, Warrior, Adept, Commoner, and Aristocrat.

2: NPC class start: At first level, each character gets three levels worth of classes... one PC class, which is their first level, and then two NPC class levels. However, for CR, feat, bonus stat, and Exp purposes, those NPC levels don't exist, so a 4th level barbarian with 2 expert levels is still 4th level for exp purposes and everything, and has gained two feats and one stat boost. This gives PCs a huge boost at low levels but very little at high levels, and it's nice to allow a character to get abilities for whatever they did before they went out adventuring. Plus, there's a lot of flavor built in for roleplaying.

3: Magical Talent: Similar to the OP's idea. Everyone advances in caster level in any one class, gaining spells known/per day as appropriate, but gains no other abilities of the class (so you could have wizard talent, and be able to cast off a spellbook, but you wouldn't get scribe scroll or a familiar. You also couldn't fight in armour without some work). This is a pretty high powered option, but can be fun to play around with.

JaronK

[Sir_Vrati]

2. Racial Gestalt: Mostly designed for situations where all characters are playing nonstandard races with large Level Adjustments (such as a celestial game). Instead of taking levels in a character class and levels in a racial class (a la Savage Species), they would receive levels in both racial and class levels (as if they were gestalting in them). Upon reaching the maximum racial level, the DM has the choice to progress the racial levels further or to simply have them cease.


A little off topic, but not worth making a new topic about: Could someone post a link or explain the rules for savage species racial leveling rules? Or are they copyright?

[Fax Celestis]

A little off topic, but not worth making a new topic about: Could someone post a link or explain the rules for savage species racial leveling rules? Or are they copyright?
They're copyright, but it's pretty much as follows: Here's a few examples. We don't know how to really work it either, so, um...good luck!

[rhoass]

The thing with Racial HD is that individual creatures can never increase their racial HD, except for Barghests, who have a special circumstance. Racial HD is there for creatures who are stronger than average members of their species.
um... yes they do. That's why there's an "advancement" block for each monster in the MM's. It allows for advancing HD, and in some cases size.

[Sir_Vrati]

They're copyright, but it's pretty much as follows: Here's a few examples. We don't know how to really work it either, so, um...good luck!

Hmm... sounds like half their other books. Guess I'll just have to wing it then.