Best class for world conquest?

[Maho-Tsukai]

You want to make an evil character who's goal is world domination. So one must ask, what class would has the tools that allow them the easiest road to global conquest? I would personally say clerics and DNs since they can easily obtain an army via necromancy, but I want to know if some people know other classes that would be better as world-conquerors that I may have overlooked.

So, who do you all think is the best world conquer out of all the classes?

[Hirax]

I immediately thought thrallherd from a fluff perspective. Mechanically, anyone that gets epic spellcasting fits the bill equally well.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Not any one class in particular, but always take leadership, and take the legendary leader prestige class in Heroes of Battle. HoB also has the feats extra followers, improved cohort, inspirational leadership, and practiced cohort.

For base class, warblades and crusaders get the white raven discipline, which gives your allies a bunch of bonuses.

For cohort, a spellcaster if you're not a caster, an alchemist or dwarf smith and stonemason if you are a spellcaster.

[Maho-Tsukai]

True, but no good DM allows Epic Spellcasting, and thrallheard has hardly enough minions for global conquest unless he could ALSO take leadership, which his class says he can't. As for leadership, in and of itself it dose not provide the numbers unless your totally optimize it, including with charisma. I suppose a Dread Necromancer could choose to abuse it + necromancy along with undead leadership, though...or heck, even a sorcerer or ANY cha-based class could, though the DN would be best since he can also get minions via necromancy.

[Hirax]

True, but no good DM allows Epic Spellcasting, and thrallheard has hardly enough minions for global conquest.

The idea behind the thrallherd was to use dominate, since they get a souped up version of it. Dominate other leaders and get them to bring their flock with them. Plus you can enter as a psion, so you will still be fairly powerful since you'll get 8/10 cast progression.

[Maho-Tsukai]

A sorcerer can also dominate kings, optimize leadership and will have a massive cha score. With fiend blooded he can pick up True Dominate and Monstrous thrall without having to worry about it counting against his spells known. So what makes the thrallheard any better then the sorc at it?

[Hiro Protagonest]

As for leadership, in and of itself it dose not provide the numbers unless your totally optimize it, including with charisma.

Extra followers doubles the number of followers you get. In addition, you can get tons of minions with a chain thing, your cohort takes leadership when they can, then the cohort's cohort takes leadership, and on and on. Not only does it give you a full army, all the cohorts can cover the roles of things like treasurer, head siege engineer, mage general, and cavalry general.

[Analytica]

If you are high enough level, I would go wizard. Necromancy still works wonders, as you can make any number of spawn-creating undead, which you control by Undead Leadership, Command Undead, and Mindrape affected by the "Song of the Dead" metamagic, meaning you can permanently make them your slavishly devoted servants with no need to maintain the magic or resource expenditure. If you want lots and lots of mindless undead, maintain chains of awakened undead that you command, who in turn command the lesser undead.

Neither anyone's rebuke pool, control pool or leadership pool suffices in and of itself even to stock a proper large dungeon. Hence why methods similar to the above might be better.

[Hirax]

I was trying to avoid the cliche sorcerer/wizard obvious answer. Everyone knows wizards can do everything, and sorcerers are naturals for leadership.

[Ganurath]

Half-Elf Paragon 1 / Human Paragon 1 / Warlock 1 / Half-Elf Paragon 2 / Human Paragon 2 / Warlock X for a diplomancing item crafter who can blow up enemy mooks. Charm and Domination are all well and good, but can be dispelled by the mages your activities will be opposed by. There is no spell to dispel a high Diplomacy modifier.

[Maho-Tsukai]

True, though a Sorc can pump bluff which is almost as good as diplomacy and can actually pump diplomacy if he gets it as a class skill via feats or PrCs. I also forgot about bards, who can also abuse leadership, have more social skills then the sorc and are known to be the game's enchantment masters. Heck, take ranks in "perform: political speeches" or something similar and you can have a politician type character since not all bards HAVE to be artist-types, though I find it hard to picture a "corrupt politician" type character who's non-lawful, but I suppose a neutral evil type could fit the bill.

[Geigan]

A sorcerer can also dominate kings, optimize leadership and will have a massive cha score. With fiend blooded he can pick up True Dominate and Monstrous thrall without having to worry about it counting against his spells known. So what makes the thrallheard any better then the sorc at it?

Enthrall other thrallherds and people who have leadership. Not any better than sorcerer really, I just wanted to say,"Yo dawg, we heard you like thrallherds, so we put thrallherds in your thrallherds so you can thallherd while you thrallherd."
:smalltongue:

[Yora]

Be an aristocrat and have powerful friends and gather an army the old fashioned way. Much more effective than relying exclusively on zombies and Thralls, because there's no upper limit.

[Maho-Tsukai]

That's basically what leadership dose, no? Also, I tend to think of aristocrat as a title, not a class. I mean, you can have say a Sorcerer or Dread Necromancer who's from a wealthy/noble family and they'd still, technically, be an "aristocrat" without any ranks in the NPC class no? Heck, even the often maligned fighter could be an "aristocrat" if he came from the right family. Thus, that method can be achieved by anybody because it's totally reliant on RP and thus dose not answer what class is best for it mechanically because that method has no mechanical basis.

[Yora]

Leadership is useless for that purpose. The men who came the closest to conquering continents were Alexander, Cortez and similar persons. You need tens or hundreds of thousand of men to conquer nations. Leadership is capped at about 150. They may be extremely loyal to you, and only you, and would make a good honor guard for your palace. But to conquer nations, you need to get allies and mercenaries. And if you play your cards well, they never start to consider abandoning or turning against you. Followers are fun, but they don't make an army.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Leadership is useless for that purpose. The men who came the closest to conquering continents were Alexander, Cortez and similar persons. You need tens or hundreds of thousand of men to conquer nations. Leadership is capped at about 150. They may be extremely loyal to you, and only you, and would make a good honor guard for your palace. But to conquer nations, you need to get allies and mercenaries. And if you play your cards well, they never start to consider abandoning or turning against you. Followers are fun, but they don't make an army.
I already addressed that issue:

Extra followers doubles the number of followers you get. In addition, you can get tons of minions with a chain thing, your cohort takes leadership when they can, then the cohort's cohort takes leadership, and on and on. Not only does it give you a full army, all the cohorts can cover the roles of things like treasurer, head siege engineer, mage general, and cavalry general.

[Telonius]

Are we talking about conquering the world, or ruling the world? Two very different propositions, I think. One of them requires obliteration of armies, the other involves building a system of governance.

[Maho-Tsukai]

Both, as once one conquers it if they where the evil overlord type they'd also want to rule it. All it would take to rule it would be a decent int and cha score. A decent wisdom would HELP, but is not as necessary as int or cha as a leader can have advisers to help him off-set an average or low wisdom. I'd say the best candidate would be a sorcerer, DN or other cha-based character with a minimum int of 14, since that's already quite above average and thus enough to dream up a form of government. Charisma would be important here since you'd have to be able to get people to except your rule and follow your system and having a high charisma makes that FAR easier as without a good cha your only chance to make people listen would be to use some kind of fear-based tactics or convince your GM to make an epic spell that's essentially Dominate Person: Global.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Archivist. Conquering the world is gonna take spells, and they (even by more-or-less reasonable interpretation) have the widest variety. All cleric, all druid, and (through domains) most of the best sorcerer/wizard stuff as well.

Also, there's a *lot* of druidic magic that could be incredibly useful to a ruler, even low-level ones. Sure, fireballs and bear-summons may make the difference in a dungeon, but when you're trying to run an empire, how sweet is it to make common house cats spy on dissidents for you?

There's also the wonders of blizzarding cities- how many nations could you force to surrender in a week between that and "City Stride (low-level teleportation from one city to another).

[Maho-Tsukai]

True, and an archivist, despite what the necromancy handbook says, makes a darn good necromancer. I honestly never understood why the necromancer's handbook said that archivists where worse then wizards at necromancy. Their excuse was that "Their necromantic power depends on what the DM gives them/they need to find their spells." That struck me as an odd reason to say Archivists suck at necromancy since wizards have the EXACT same issue. I suppose wizards have more necromancy-themed splatbook support then archivists, but the archivist still gets the better list(cleric) for necromancy and can grab the best wizard stuff via domains. Heck, even if the DM is tight with scrolls PrCs like Contemplative can allow an archivist to pick up domains and basically say "**** you, I'll get my domain spells no matter what!" to a stingy DM. They can even get undead mastery and zone of animation in epic if they take a one level dip in a class that grants them rebuke undead, which is smart anyway as rebuke can also power divine feats.

[Telonius]

Okay, as I see it the class combination will need to be able to do a few things...

- Allow the character to inspire a large following.
- Allow the character to lead and/or control an army
- Have enough military experience to know what his army is capable of doing
- Have enough magical experience to know what his caster followers are capable of doing
- Be able to project power across continents
- Be able to get people who are more powerful than he is to either be on his side; failing that, non-hostile to him; failing that, neutralized
- Have knowledge of politics and how to motivate a bureaucracy
- Have enough magical defenses to prevent himself from being neutralized and/or dominated

All of that screams "Diplomancer Bard" to me.

[faceroll]

The trick is to pimp two skills out- sleight of hand and diplomacy. If you and a friend can hit 100 for sleight of hand, you can move each other as a free action, so appear anywhere in the prime material whenever you like. Then you diplomance (use evangelist or whatever) as a standard action to turn them into fanatics. In the space of 6 seconds, every living creature in the multiverse thinks you're the coolest guy, ever.

An army of zombies is useless here, because as a free action, team sleight of hand can instantaneously entomb them in stolen items.

[edit]
No need for diplomacy here. Pick up some levels of exemplar, use your sleight of hand as a diplomacy check. Now you got diplomacy checks as a free action. I think.

[CTrees]

Epic social skills are definitely the way to go. Abusing leadership/thrallherd/necromancy/domination may get you thousands of followers, but enough Diplomacy checks can make every single person in the entire world your fanatic (well, have your fanatics kill anyone against whom you roll natural ones). Start with the kings, then only after you've got decent portions of the populace under your wing, declare yourself benevolent dictator for life. I'm sure you can come up with a way to make entire cities hear your speeches. Who needs armies?

I'd suggest investing in some form of permanent Tongues effect - because why not get the goblins, orcs, giants, etc., also?

[Maho-Tsukai]

"Epic social skills are definitely the way to go. Abusing leadership/thrallherd/necromancy/domination may get you thousands of followers, but enough Diplomacy checks can make every single person in the entire world your fanatic (well, have your fanatics kill anyone against whom you roll natural ones). Start with the kings, then only after you've got decent portions of the populace under your wing, declare yourself benevolent dictator for life. I'm sure you can come up with a way to make entire cities hear your speeches. Who needs armies?

I'd suggest investing in some form of permanent Tongues effect - because why not get the goblins, orcs, giants, etc., also? "- CTree

So in other words, be Naruto Uzumaki or Obamanation? :smalltongue:

In all seriousness, though, such things where mentioned and I stated before that any high-cha class can do that kind of thing. Sorcerers, Dread Necromancers, Bards, whatever. So long as it primarily is based on charisma and can somehow get social skills on it's list or already has them it can do this well enough. Bard is tailor made for this, though, but if you don't like the fluff of the bard a Sorcerer or other cha-based class can do the trick. Heck, even something like say, a Paladin(Of Tyranny) or Crusader could do this with enough cha.

[Optimator]

Bard. Social skills plus just enough magic to get one's way.

[Dr.Epic]

You want to make an evil character who's goal is world domination. So one must ask, what class would has the tools that allow them the easiest road to global conquest?

This. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8u7px_GzWQ)

Seriously, wizard, sorcerer, cleric, or any broken spellcaster that can become lich.

[Draz74]

Are we talking about conquering the world, or ruling the world? Two very different propositions, I think. One of them requires obliteration of armies, the other involves building a system of governance.

QFT. If we're talking about ruling the world, then the safest and surest path to world domination is the economic route -- in fact, I believe this is the original line of thinking that led to the invention of the Tippy Wizard and the Tippyverse. Even without infinite-wealth-loops or custom magic items (traps!), Wizard is a well-suited class to economic domination of the world. With those options, Wizard is unparalleled.

I'll grant you, the lack of Diplomacy as a class skill is a significant drawback. However, that can be fixed by either Human Paragon levels (which just might be worthwhile anyway -- more skill points, a bonus feat, and +2 Intelligence aren't a bad deal for one lost caster level) or Martial Study (anything White Raven).

I don't actually like to play Wizards much, so I hate to be one of those "Wizard is the best for everything!" people, but in this case ... facts are facts.

[Analytica]

Just found another interesting feat in the Eberron Campaign Setting. Undead Empathy allows you to use Diplomacy on mindless undead. Add in some diplomancer techniques, and this should allow you to expand your hordes significantly.

[faceroll]

QFT. If we're talking about ruling the world, then the safest and surest path to world domination is the economic route

Kill everything, raise it as minion.

[Maho-Tsukai]

Locate City bomb(damage version, not level drain version) + Fell Animate + Command Undead = profit? :smallamused:

[Greenish]

Bard.I looked the title of the thread and thought I'd pop by to set everyone straight, but you've beaten me to it.

[Draz74]

Kill everything, raise it as minion.

The problem with that is that it takes a while, and after you've started the process, people have an annoying habit of noticing what you're doing and sending armies or heroes to try to stop you.

The economic route is much less likely to be interrupted by anyone who's offended at your tactics. And even if they do interrupt you, there's a small chance they won't bother killing you, so you can try again later.

[adecoy95]

world conquest is so mortal, just make a new plane of existence, shape it, sculpt it, this your world now.

(there are quite a few ways to do this in dnd)

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Lack of diplomacy shouldn't hurt a well-built wizard *that* much, I don't think... (not sure, do they get as many stackable skill buff spells as a divine caster?)

But, if we're being realistic... diplomacy shouldn't be *that* necessary, at least not as a skill. Consider who you'd rather ally with:

"I can produce unlimited quantities of the world's deadliest poisons, learn the disposition of our enemy's forces without leaving my throne, raise our enemy's fallen to turn back against them, and teleport freely through their most guarded cities and level with in a single minute."

"I can say pretty words!"

If it comes down to it, you can always just hire a diplomat.

[Greenish]

"I can say pretty words!"You mean "I can turn anyone ever into my fanatic follower in six seconds flat. Also, you're one now."

[FreakyCheeseMan]

You mean "I can turn anyone ever into my fanatic follower in six seconds flat. Also, you're one now."

Which is why I said "Realistically". We have to assume the DM is paying at least a little attention, otherwise the answer to every how-to question ever posed on this forums would be "Become Pun-Pun; Make It So".

Realistically, diplomacy doesn't work that way- to put in terms of game mechanics, circumstance modifies should have a *lot* more influence.

[Greenish]

Which is why I said "Realistically".And then followed with a most contrived example where diplomacy was nerfed to "saying pretty words" whilst a wizard is able to pull shenanigans like nothing. :smallamused:

[FreakyCheeseMan]

You mean "I can turn anyone ever into my fanatic follower in six seconds flat. Also, you're one now."


And then followed with a most contrived example where diplomacy was nerfed to "saying pretty words" whilst a wizard is able to pull shenanigans like nothing. :smallamused:

*Shrugs* Wizards (or Archivists, at least) are able to do all that, shenanigans-free; magic power is that strong both in terms of the mechanics and the fluff.

Short version- if makes sense that a person able to wield the kind of power described in D&D spell lists would be able to alter the course of battles or wars. It doesn't make sense that being persuasive is the same thing as mind control.

And, as humans are at least mildly rational, once in a while, it makes more sense for people and factions to follow the person who can make the best offer, rather than make the offer best.

[Coidzor]

What's the current level for the bard build that can make a charging Asmodeus his fanatic?

[Telonius]

*Shrugs* Wizards (or Archivists, at least) are able to do all that, shenanigans-free; magic power is that strong both in terms of the mechanics and the fluff.

Short version- if makes sense that a person able to wield the kind of power described in D&D spell lists would be able to alter the course of battles or wars. It doesn't make sense that being persuasive is the same thing as mind control.

And, as humans are at least mildly rational, once in a while, it makes more sense for people and factions to follow the person who can make the best offer, rather than make the offer best.

Bard to godlike Wizard: "Hey, we all acknowledge your supreme power. But really, is it worth your time to be wasting so many of your resources defending yourself? Let me give it to you straight: I like you, and I think we can come to a mutually-beneficial agreement. You want to continue researching reality-warping magic without having to deal with little things like local laws, or adventurers banging on your door every five minutes. I occasionally need the assistance of a much-more-powerful spellcaster. Think we could work something out? I make sure you go down in the history books in a favorable light and that my kingdom all loves you as long as you're around; and my followers will ensure you aren't bothered. We'll give you a substantial stipend to help in your research, and a crew of apprentices (if you like) to help you in crafting any items you want. You let me know of any existential threats to me, the kingdom, or the multiverse generally, and maybe do one or two jobs a year that require a true master's touch. Take as much time as you need to consider the offer. I know you have the Divination spells to see if it works out well for you. But whether you take me up on it or not, feel free to pop by anytime if you need some obscure reference researched."

And that's just off the top of my head. A high-level Bard would be able to figure out (through Bardic Knowledge) the Wizard's deepest secret fears and fondest hopes, and craft his pitch around those. Technically, yes, a Wizard could deliver a similar pitch, given enough time and magic. But it's not really his forte. A Bard can do that just with class features, a high Charisma, and a maxed-out Diplomacy skill. Synergy bonuses, items, and spells just make him that much more ridiculously convincing.

[Coidzor]

Just found another interesting feat in the Eberron Campaign Setting. Undead Empathy allows you to use Diplomacy on mindless undead. Add in some diplomancer techniques, and this should allow you to expand your hordes significantly.

...Bye-bye Animate Dead HD-controlled cap...

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Well, we're not actually debating Wizard vs. Bard in competition with eachother- we're debating which of them would be more able to conqueror the world.

I will admit I shouldn't have been... as dismissive as I was of the bard's diplomacy- I did that as a joke, not to show scorn, and apologize if it came across wrong.

I admit that diplomacy is a useful skill for a leader- it may be more useful than any single trick a wizard or archivist could offer. However, an Archivist at least (I'm not really familiar with wizard's yet, having not played one) can not only remain a perfectly reasonable diplomat (Class skill, solid skill points, +massive skill boosts through magic), but also have access to dozens of other world-changing spells.

Consider what a lone archivist could do to a battlefield, flying overhead with Cloudkill and Entangle; consider that same caster's ability to assassinate an enemy leader through charmed animals and poisons. He then goes on to instantly relay orders and information to his generals and lesser regents, establishes a circle of teleportation to move his entire army behind the enemy's lines, swings by his agricultural region to advance next year's harvest through plant growth and weather control, uses a quick flurry of mind control, zone of truth, clairaudience and, if need be, marks of justice to establish and ensure the continued loyalty of his inner court, and then takes a quick lunch before sprinkling his remaining opponent's cities with contagions, blizzards, and the occasional poisoned lake.

Diplomacy will certainly be a useful tool to him- and if he lacks it himself, he will suffer for having to hire less-skilled diplomats to do his talking for him. But, assuming we're still speaking of diplomacy and not diplomancy, the substance of what he can deliver will still matter more then the eloquence with which he can deliver it.

[Telonius]

But, assuming we're still speaking of diplomacy and not diplomancy, the substance of what he can deliver will still matter more then the eloquence with which he can deliver it.

The way I look at it, the Bard wins on the substance, because of what each class "wants" in order to become more powerful. Wizards and Archivists want knowledge, security for self and spellbook, information, and time to research. They can get all of that themselves, but at a hefty price in spells cast and gold expended. A Bard can provide most of that without himself being diminished. He doesn't have to use a single spell, and doesn't even need the Wizard, to get what he really wants - namely, a larger audience to influence, and more people to love him. If a Wizard is spending all of his time using spells to administer his worldwide kingdom, when's he going to do what he really wants? Whereas for a Bard, administering a worldwide kingdom is pretty close to what he really wants.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

The way I look at it, the Bard wins on the substance, because of what each class "wants" in order to become more powerful. Wizards and Archivists want knowledge, security for self and spellbook, information, and time to research. They can get all of that themselves, but at a hefty price in spells cast and gold expended. A Bard can provide most of that without himself being diminished. He doesn't have to use a single spell, and doesn't even need the Wizard, to get what he really wants - namely, a larger audience to influence, and more people to love him. If a Wizard is spending all of his time using spells to administer his worldwide kingdom, when's he going to do what he really wants? Whereas for a Bard, administering a worldwide kingdom is pretty close to what he really wants.

Well, you're kind of assuming that all wizard's have the same motivations- and archivists too, for that matter. For the purposes of this debate, I'd assume that any character has the motivation "Conquer the world".

You're also making a fair number of assumptions- I could just as well say that what bards "really" want is to accompany and catalog the experiences of great heroes/events, rather than hold the spotlight themselves- and thus would never be comfortable in the role of world-conqueror.

Finally, rapid expansion and conquest are a pretty solid way to build up spells. As I recall, there's a limit to the number of hours any character can spend scribing spells in a single day; let's say it's 8. With 8 hours of scribing, and 8 hours of sleeping, this still leaves 8 hours for happy conquering- and any caster with teleportation will easily burn through their full spell list in that much time, especially given that they'll leave some in reserve for self-defense. During that period they're also conquering cities and amassing great wealth, which brings them the ability to buy reagents, study in new and more powerful libraries, and forge alliances with other strong magic users.

In fact, it's quite reasonable to say that wizards are *more* advanced by spreading their own power than bards- rare components and spells can all be acquired through money and power, while bards max out on usable items much sooner.

[Incanur]

Cloistered cleric of some deity of domination or archivist, I'd guess. Honorable mention to the beguiler and bard, though any tier 1 class should do fine. (Except for druid, as worshiping nature and conquering the world doesn't mesh conceptually.)

[Coidzor]

Cloistered cleric of some deity of domination or archivist, I'd guess. Honorable mention to the beguiler and bard, though any tier 1 class should do fine. (Except for druid, as worshiping nature and conquering the world doesn't mesh conceptually.)

Well, a 5th level druid spell can destroy any city not prepared for 90 feet of snow crashing down on its buildings.

So that whole Child of Winter/COOOBRAAAAA! angle comes to mind. They could destroy it(or at least large sections of its civilizations/species) but don't really have any way of taking it and keeping it.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Well, a 5th level druid spell can destroy any city not prepared for 90 feet of snow crashing down on its buildings.

So that whole Child of Winter/COOOBRAAAAA! angle comes to mind. They could destroy it(or at least large sections of its civilizations/species) but don't really have any way of taking it and keeping it.

Meh. Here's my thinking.

1: Between natural divination, teleportation, combat and control spells, druids are unchallenged in natural areas, except by more powerful druids.

2: By destroying all cities, you become the most powerful druid.

3: By making the entire world essentially one big natural area, your "Rule" is uncontested.

4: Good luck making them do anything, though.

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Half-Elf Paragon 1 / Human Paragon 1 / Warlock 1 / Half-Elf Paragon 2 / Human Paragon 2 / Warlock X for a diplomancing item crafter who can blow up enemy mooks. Charm and Domination are all well and good, but can be dispelled by the mages your activities will be opposed by. There is no spell to dispel a high Diplomacy modifier.

Marshal 1/Mindbender 1. No sense paying for Skill Focus (Diplomacy) when you can get it for free plus the ability to double-dip Charisma. If you're dragonblooded, you can also pick up Draconic Aura (Presence).

If you're not attached to item creation-- that's what cohorts are for-- substitute Warlock for Dragonfire Adept to get Dragontouched for free.

That, and the Mindbender's telepathy means that your Diplomancy is no longer language-dependent.

[Optimator]

So I guess Sublime Chords are the best.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Marshal 1/Mindbender 1. No sense paying for Skill Focus (Diplomacy) when you can get it for free plus the ability to double-dip Charisma. If you're dragonblooded, you can also pick up Draconic Aura (Presence).

If you're not attached to item creation-- that's what cohorts are for-- substitute Warlock for Dragonfire Adept to get Dragontouched for free.

That, and the Mindbender's telepathy means that your Diplomancy is no longer language-dependent.

And mindbender qualifies you for the feat "Mindsense" which makes you automatically aware of creatures within a healthy radius. Can't rule the world if you get assassinated, amirite?

[Gwendol]

I looked the title of the thread and thought I'd pop by to set everyone straight, but you've beaten me to it.

Gets my vote (Bard).

[OrganicGolem]

1) Find some leader that already has an army of thousands (bonus points if its undead)
2) Take control of them
3) ???????
4) Profit
5) Repeat

so yeah, pretty much anyone with dominate spells, or the like will win this easily.

[Hiro Protagonest]

1) Find some leader that already has an army of thousands (bonus points if its undead)
2) Take control of them
3) ???????
4) Profit
5) Repeat

so yeah, pretty much anyone with dominate spells, or the like will win this easily.

This is supposed to be an open conquerer, not the power behind the throne.

[Tyndmyr]

Primary caster of choice, with Leadership and Improved Cohort. Assume they all have this, all the way down. Screw the followers. They are important in the grand scheme of things. Get a nice variety of primary casters in your cohort chain.

Dominate is your friend. Also, mindrape. Enjoy taking over the world several hundred people of importance at a time.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

This is supposed to be an open conquerer, not the power behind the throne.

It's not like the one can't become the other- you dominate the king from the shadows, approach from the light to establish an "official" relationship, have your puppet command you to do a few things, rise in ranks, get declared heir...

It's a somewhat lengthy path, but it's still the fastest road from "Great personal but no political power" to "Both, and plenty of them, rhanks for asking."