The Funny Thing About Fox's Cunning

[Allanimal]

Fox's cunning gives a +4 enhancement bonus to Intelligence.

I think we can all agree that a fox is an animal. (I have not found a MM entry so I can't be sure...)

According to the SRD:

An animal possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).

Intelligence score of 1 or 2 (no creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher can be an animal).

+4 is way above any animal intelligence, according to the very definition of an animal.

Assuming a fox is a smart animal, but an animal nonetheless, shouldn't the spell drop the target's intelligence to 2?

If I ever feel particularly sadistic as a DM, I might throw in a cursed item, Chapeau of the Cunning Fox or something, that does just this. :xykon:

[Etrivar]

You are being by far to literal when looking at the spell name.

Sort of like how expeditious retreat doesn't have to be used to retreat.

They made the rest of the animal's virtue line and then realized 'oh ****, there is no animal with an intelligence greater than 2! What will we do?!' so they came up with an animal that was know for being more intelligent than most: the fox.

[Alleine]

The same can be applied to Eagle's Splendor. Eagles have 6 charisma.

Of course, these aren't really based on what is actually true but on our perceptions. For whatever reasons foxes are cunning(Clever like a fox!), owls are wise, and eagles are charismatic. I can explain eagles because at least in the U.S. they're viewed as majestic and whatnot.

[Allanimal]

You are being by far to literal when looking at the spell name.


I know. I guess I forgot the smiley.

[John Campbell]

Sort of like how expeditious retreat doesn't have to be used to retreat.
The runesmith I played refused to use that spell because of the name.

Of course, after I hit 7th level and got my 3rd-level spells, I led off most fights with haste anyway, so it didn't much matter...

[Firechanter]

Note how in the German localization the eponymic animals for Bull's Strength and Bear's Endurance are swapped. Mostly because "bärenstark" is a common German expression, I guess, and oxen are attributed as being stubborn.
(The company that used to produce German D&D screwed up a lot, but this one isn't half bad.)

[erikun]

The same can be applied to Eagle's Splendor. Eagles have 6 charisma.
Owls only have 14 Wisdom and cats have 15 Dexterity. I can pretty much guarantee that nearly everyone you are casting them on has higher base values than that.

Also, my Hengeyokai is disappointed you think him unintelligent. :smallfrown: Perhaps you could sit down for tea with him and explain your position? Tea may or may not be laced with alchemical substances, depending on how graceful your explanations are.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

So, what creatures should we actually name these after?

[herrhauptmann]

Wights splendour?
As characters they get a +4 to charisma, don't they?

[TimeWizard]

Owls only have 14 Wisdom and cats have 15 Dexterity

It's nice to know that owls know more about the world than I do:smallannoyed:

Also, biologists, after watching too much Mythbusters, determined that Foxes aren't really smarter then other canines. It's probably more a testament to how poor aristocrats were at hunting. I'm going to call it Octopus Cunning from now on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9A-oxUMAy8

[AslanCross]

Wights splendour?
As characters they get a +4 to charisma, don't they?

Yeah, it's from looking like Rob Zombie or Pepe Smith.


http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG255a.jpg
http://www.esongtalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/rob-zombie.jpg

http://thelighthousestudio.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/weblomo3.jpg

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Hmmm...

Great Wyrm Gold Dragon's Strength
Great Wyrm Gold Dragon's Endurance
Great Wyrm Gold Dragon's Wisdom
Great Wyrm Gold Dragon's Cunning
Great Wyrm Gold Dragon's Splendor
Great Wyrm Gold Dragon's ... Er, Nevermind

[Firechanter]

How about Raven's Cunning (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8L4KNrPEs0&feature=fvst) for Int. Ravens (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efcIsve5wu8&feature=related) are awesome (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P8Nwl7FAJk&feature=related).