Europa Universalis 3: Luck of the Irish

[Towa]

Anybody else here play it? I picked it up a few weeks ago, and I think I finally kind of sort of understand how to play. For those of you who haven't played this game, it's similar to the Total War or Civilization series, except super historically correct, and much more complicated (to me, anyway). I've heard people describe the learning curve as a wall.


EDIT:

By the way, I've been playing various Irish minors unsuccessfully, by the way. What I've been doing is uniting all of the island except for Meath, and then I go for Meath, and am subsequently raped by Britain. Any suggestions? :smalltongue:

[Dragero]

I've recently started EU3 as well, and it's pretty fun.

My suggestions are:

Play a powerful country, like England, France, or Spain (Also known as Castile). A strong country makes for an easy game.

Keep inflation as low as possible, or you'll end up with Cavalry costing you your yearly income (Ok, maybe not your entire income....)

Colonize in an area with low native aggressiveness. I've spent the last 6 years trying to make one of my colonies self sufficient, due to endless native attacks, while my other (Canadian) colonies are thriving.

Don't kill everything. Make sure to check out the allies of your victims, or you might end up fending off the entire Roman Empire.

Stability must be above 0. If it dips below, the penalties are crazy, while if it hits 1 or higher, the bonuses are great. Always try to keep your stability at 3.

Edit: Don't attack england unless you're a powerful country. They're one of the most powerful countries in EU3. Don't mess with them unless you can afford it.

[Kurgan]

Europa is one of my favorite games. Believe it or not, its one of Paradox's simpler games. Now, on to business:


By the way, I've been playing various Irish minors unsuccessfully, by the way. What I've been doing is uniting all of the island except for Meath, and then I go for Meath, and am subsequently raped by Britain. Any suggestions?

Never played Ireland myself, but what you might want to do is align yourself with France or Burgandy, whichever is the more powerful, wait for them to go to war with England, and nab the last province that way. Another you could try to go about it is wait for England to enter a big war, and then send your spies to that territory to fund patriots or nationalists to either join you directly or form an independent state you could then take at your leisure. Basically, wait for England to be weakened and busy elsewhere.

Lastly, you could simply ignore that last territory and try to expand elsewhere, perhaps take a few of the naval ideas so you have a large and cheap to produce fleet, or colonize the New World before anyone else, make yourself a power over there.

Regardless of the path you go, as an island country I would suggest focusing on the navy. A large navy means others cannot take your homeland without trouble. Only problem with that is that England usually has a large navy, so you might end up spending most of your income on maintaining your navy for the sole purpose of defending from England.

On a side note, which version are you using? Some mechanics change based on whether you are using the base game or the expansions.

[Towa]

I'm using version 3.2, with all of the expansions (I think).

The main problem with Ireland, is that you sort of have a time limit, before England gets the "Conquer Ireland" mission, and then comes to bootstomp you. Generally, the seem to get it immediately after they get the "Vassalize Scotland" mission, which they seem to be able to do within the first 15-20 years.

First what I do is take over the rest of Ireland, which always provokes a war with Britanny. They don't generally send troops over, and are content to just make White Peace after I've annexed a couple Irish minors, and on the off chance that they do invade, they are usually fairly easy to defend against. Once I've unified Ireland (minus Meath) I crank up my treasury bar and ship off my merchants, and try to rake in the cash. On especially lucky games, I can actually get a Center of Trade by 1440.

After a decade or two, assuming they haven't managed to entirely defeat and vassalize Scotland, they start fighting with France. This is when I invade Meath. My army at that point is generally about 6-8 thousand troops, the vast majority being cavalry. I can hold onto it for a little while, but within a year or so, England stops fighting France, and turns there attention to little poor me.

That's a long answer, but hopefully that explains my situation. I've also tried to just go for colonies in the Americas, but England always gets the "Conquer Ireland" mission and beats me up before I can get the idea that lets me go to America. I've thought about invading Norway to take Iceland, but I'm a little scared of the whole three way Scandinavian alliance. What do you guys think?

[Gaius Marius]

As said before, align yourself with a powerful rival of England, and cross fingers.

Otherwise, maybe focusing on a navy rather than an army?

[Thanqol]

Anybody else here play it? I picked it up a few weeks ago, and I think I finally kind of sort of understand how to play. For those of you who haven't played this game, it's similar to the Total War or Civilization series, except super historically correct, and much more complicated (to me, anyway). I've heard people describe the learning curve as a wall.


EDIT:

By the way, I've been playing various Irish minors unsuccessfully, by the way. What I've been doing is uniting all of the island except for Meath, and then I go for Meath, and am subsequently raped by Britain. Any suggestions? :smalltongue:

Ah, EU3. I'm doing a historical/voting Let's Play, check the link in my signature.

First piece of advice is to check the EU3 Wiki (http://www.paradoxian.org/eu3wiki/Main_Page), it has the manual and tutorial the game doesn't.

Second is never to get into a war with a nation bigger than you unless you're bringing big friends. Don't contest the English their holding; instead, inciting nationalistic riots could be a better move. Ireland has a great spot to colonise from, so get into America as fast as possible. After a century of colonisation and hopefully annexation of Mexico you should have the manpower to punch England. Don't rush these things.

Also, do what I do and in the game setup options set "Lucky Nations" to "Random". Makes for some amazing games.


Otherwise, maybe focusing on a navy rather than an army?

England starts with a navy bigger than your forcelimits. Like 56 ships in their starting fleet.

[Murska]

Yeah, I've seen England collapse to internal riots every once in a while. This tends to happen after they get stuck into a prolonged war with France where nobody is willing to White Peace nor able to conquer the other's provinces. Their war weariness gets really high and the ensuing revolts finally result in Lancaster and Cornwall duking it out over London. :smallbiggrin:

Ireland is a really tough nation to attempt when you aren't very experienced with the game. It's worse than most of the HRE minors, actually, since there's only one big nation nearby with an interest in you. Kind of like a Byzantium with no cores on everything and no great missions.

[Frozen_Predator]

ah EU3, one of my all time favorite games ever.

saw some good tips in here but also missed a few.

-keep your military maintenance slider at minimum when at peace
-live on your yearly income.
-get national bank as soon as possible
-when colonising look at the base tax of the province before colonising, good areas to colonise are: manhattan and surrounding area, Brazil, and the rio del la plata area. Africa, Greenland and Canada are worthless to colonise so don't even bother.
-don't overdo colonisation, big colonial empires drain money, warships and troops.
-centralisation and free subject slider moves are always good, be carefull with moving the innovativeness slider untill the reformation runs out of steam.
-pass the militia act and focus on quality later on get esprit d'corps, a well disciplined army is a deadly army.

personally my preferred nation is Byzantium, so many interesting outcomes in a Byzantine game.

[Gaius Marius]

Some of the funniest games I've had was as Japan, as the Teutonic Knight/Prussia, and Portugal..


For the latter, let me tell you I've conquered and converted Mecca. The prestige bonus for this is quity nifty... :smallcool: (well, for holding Mecca, not actually converting it)

I didn't tried the last 2 expansions, Heir to the Throne and Divind Wind. Are they any good? I know I fell in love with In Nomine!

[skb]

If you can kick yourself out of the PU, and eventually get rid of Burgundy, Holland is possibly the most game-breaking nation in the game. Very good sliders making insane research speed makes for a very skilled army makes for european domination. Mind, I usually stop after I reach my predetermined borders and just try to shape Europe in the way I want - Begone, Ugly Borders.

[UnChosenOne]

I didn't tried the last 2 expansions, Heir to the Throne and Divind Wind. Are they any good? I know I fell in love with In Nomine!

Well, I bought the EUIII Completed 1st, played it for months and enjoyed it greatly and then bought both Heir to the Throne and DW and well, gaiming experience turned from great to goddamn-this-is-soo-awesome. So buy both of expasions NOW!

[Gaius Marius]

Well, I bought the EUIII Completed 1st, played it for months and enjoyed it greatly and then bought both Heir to the Throne and DW and well, gaiming experience turned from great to goddamn-this-is-soo-awesome. So buy both of expasions NOW!

Good. I have Complete too, so we'll have similar gameplay improvement experience.

Tell me, what are the main changes made that you think are the best?

[doliest]

I'm considering doing a Historical LP of the game after I finish my current game as Castille, and, strangely, I find myself in a similar situation with France, at least in the 'trying to get a provinence without getting curbstomped into the dirt' sense, and, as far as I've gotten...yeah. It's hard enough when I can march up a similar sized army, in the Irish situation....yeah, make friends. Lots of friends. Try to ally with France, but any major power works, and put off the war to the latest point. France usually only gets stronger as the game goes, unless they hit a massive bad luck patch.

Also, what screenshot program do you plan on using?

[Om]

I'd go with rebels for taking Meath. You're unlikely to be able to get a good enough peace deal (which would require an invasion of England itself) to take the province after a war. As to how you defeat the Sasanach... well I'd go with a navy and hope that England doesn't amass a grand fleet in the Irish Sea. Check out the Paradox forums for a host of AARs (sophisticated LPs) that show how other players have accomplished the task

You might also want to explore strategies for building good trade income. A small nation can really prosper by going down that route


Tell me, what are the main changes made that you think are the best?For me its the new casus belli system


Also, what screenshot program do you plan on using?EU3 has an in-built screenshot function. Press F11 during the game and it dumps a screenshot in the game folder. With HttT you can press F12 and it saves a fancy snapshot of the world map in the same folder

[doliest]

Actually, an invasion of England IS viable-with luck. I ended up in a war with England as a minor nation some time ago, can't remember what nation, and managed to get a small invasion fleet(5000 men) onto an empty piece of land, took it, and IMMEDIATELY signed a deal based on that.
.
..
But yeah, rebels are the safest bet. The only bet that isn't a long shot, to be truthful.

[skb]

The thing is, if England's at war with another nation/alliance, there is a chance England's fleets will be busy killing those guy's armada, giving you an opportunity.


One thing I love about this game is that, no matter what, there is always going to be a blob. If you cut France into little pieces, Burgundy becomes boss, so you have to take down burgundy, but that strengthens castille, or Austria, or Bavaria. It's awesome, in a way. The only thing I dislike is the PU system. It doesn't work well with the rest of the games' philosophy where you are the 'spirit' of a nation, rather than the pater familias of the royal family.

[Thanqol]

The thing is, if England's at war with another nation/alliance, there is a chance England's fleets will be busy killing those guy's armada, giving you an opportunity.


One thing I love about this game is that, no matter what, there is always going to be a blob. If you cut France into little pieces, Burgundy becomes boss, so you have to take down burgundy, but that strengthens castille, or Austria, or Bavaria. It's awesome, in a way. The only thing I dislike is the PU system. It doesn't work well with the rest of the games' philosophy where you are the 'spirit' of a nation, rather than the pater familias of the royal family.

I contest this; Personal Unions historically happened and they have genuine diplomatic ramifications. If I lead a PU with France, I get the diplomatic consequences but I cannot control France directly - indeed, the most likely result is France declaring war on me to escape the Union.

Also, HTTT gives us Legitimacy, Causus Belli, and cultural tradition - all invaluable. Divine Wind makes Asia hugely interesting and revamps the Trade and Building system, which was necessary. (Ever tried building roads as a nation with more than 100 provinces in NA? Not super fun).

[Caewil]

Nah, there's not always blobs. When I play, the only blob is me, because I guarantee and sphere everything in sight. Then use the free people wargoal to dismantle other blobs. By the late 1500s, you can eliminate every genuine security threat and spend the rest of the game coasting.

[skb]

I contest this; Personal Unions historically happened and they have genuine diplomatic ramifications. If I lead a PU with France, I get the diplomatic consequences but I cannot control France directly - indeed, the most likely result is France declaring war on me to escape the Union.

Also, HTTT gives us Legitimacy, Causus Belli, and cultural tradition - all invaluable. Divine Wind makes Asia hugely interesting and revamps the Trade and Building system, which was necessary. (Ever tried building roads as a nation with more than 100 provinces in NA? Not super fun).

I know they happened, but to me, they don't work well with the rest of the game philosophy. Especially when I played a game as Fujiwara, claimed the throne of Minamoto and forced a PU. By which I mean: PU may be plausible in Europe - though in some cases in rediculous scenarios, like that time when my Aragon king became leader of Muscovvy- but outside of Europe, the system didn't work like that. You may call it an engine problem, but it still bugs me.

[Frozen_Predator]

Nah, there's not always blobs. When I play, the only blob is me, because I guarantee and sphere everything in sight. Then use the free people wargoal to dismantle other blobs. By the late 1500s, you can eliminate every genuine security threat and spend the rest of the game coasting.

wheres the fun in that?

one of the best games i had was a byzantine game where i was having a staredown at the Alps with a massive Franceblob, neither side could get a real advantage. then a German opm unites the HRE which had spread deep into Russia. Everything changed. for some reason the AI was cunning in its diplomacy and alliances were constantly shifting untill the first decade of the 19th century when France just exploded.

and breaking blobs only works if you start as a strong nation, i'd love to see you stop France or Burguny as an OPM, unless you play Ulm

[skb]

That's what makes Holland so fun, the first few hours: you need to take down burgundy before they become too powerful, take antwerp, but you cannot destroy its army, or France will simply take all of B and make your life hell.

[Murska]

Burgundy is a fun, easy nation to play as. Great army and sliders in the beginning, good missions, not bad income and once you kill France you can pretty much decide where to go.

In one of my Burgundy games I ended up conquering Bohemia and inheriting Poland, then cleaning my borders up in the East with a few minor nations and so my Burgundy was split in half, with my heartland being the classic Burgundian areas plus half of France in the West and a large blob of territory in the middle of Europe in the East, and the HRE hating me inbetween. :smalltongue:

[Frozen_Predator]

That's what makes Holland so fun, the first few hours: you need to take down burgundy before they become too powerful, take antwerp, but you cannot destroy its army, or France will simply take all of B and make your life hell.

a solid tactic for most of the time, but there was one time i had a different focus... namely i got the claim to our rivals event 2 days after Hainaut got annexed and Holland was independent again. managed to form the Netherlands before 1410, after that easiest game ever.

[Grif]

So as to not clutter Thanqol's LP,

/cast Necromancy.

So I just gotten EU3. Is there any mods I should be installing? (this IS Paradox games after all.)

[Saithis Bladewing]

Veteran EU3 player, AAR writer and modder, represent!

I think the advice given is sufficient though. :P My personal Ireland strategy is done as Leinster and involves rapid annexations of the other Irish states followed by a focus on shifting to free trade for income and pouncing on Meath as soon as England is busy elsewhere.

Regarding mods: There's a ton of mods and you can install as many as your hard drive space allows thanks to the mod folder, but the most popular ones can be found listed at the top of here (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?357-EU3-User-Modifications).

MEIOU and Magna Mundi are generally the most highly regarded mods although AFAIK neither has a Divine Wind conversion yet. Whole World Mod is also a very popular one that makes the unexplored wastelands into colonizable provinces.

[toasty]

Hey so apparently I have EUIII: Complete. Are the other two expansions really just that good? Cuz EUIII: Complete is pretty awesome by itself. Even if Asia is kinda boring ...

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

So as to not clutter Thanqol's LP,

/cast Necromancy.

So I just gotten EU3. Is there any mods I should be installing? (this IS Paradox games after all.)

MEIOU (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?416-MEIOU) is the best mod that's updated for the new expansion


Hey so apparently I have EUIII: Complete. Are the other two expansions really just that good? Cuz EUIII: Complete is pretty awesome by itself. Even if Asia is kinda boring ...

Short answer? Yes.

Long answer?
HttT is SOOOO needed. The dynasty system may be a little wonky, but it's pretty damn cool, and gives much more depth to diplomacy. However, it's the Casus Belli system you want. It's the Casus Belli system that makes this expansion a must-have.
DW, as said, gives a lot of sweet new mechanics to Eastern nations, in addition to making the game THAT. MUCH. PRETTIER.
And faster too, I think.

[Grif]

So, I've been playing Austria.

Lots of royal marriages, alliances and whatnot. (I think I had RM with 15 different duchies/principality/nations. Who knew the King is such an eligible bachelor?).

I find myself obtaining provinces which I have no connection whatsoever. Is this normal?

Also, Poland is a ****. That is all.

(I'll probably have more hilarious stories of my first playthrough next morning.)

[Aragehaor]

So, I've been playing Austria.

Lots of royal marriages, alliances and whatnot. (I think I had RM with 15 different duchies/principality/nations. Who knew the King is such an eligible bachelor?).

I find myself obtaining provinces which I have no connection whatsoever. Is this normal?

Also, Poland is a ****. That is all.

(I'll probably have more hilarious stories of my first playthrough next morning.)
Assuming you have Divine wind, if you are the emperor you get random imperial provinces via events (for the player or AI who cedes the province - not the emperor. Don't recall the events name but i do remember if you refuse to cede the land you'll take a stability hit.) For example, in my Bohemia game i gained all of Brandenburg via this (which i then released as a vassal.) if your not the emperor, then its possible that patriots are rebelling in those provinces and they happen to defect to you, assuming same culture type/group.

[Mewtarthio]

New player here, still on my first game. I've managed to run Castille into the ground; I might post a report later on so the experts can critique me (things I've learned so far: Don't send leaderless stacks against enemy generals, don't send missionaries when you're at -3 stability, don't go bankrupt, and don't violate a truce).

Right now, thought, I've got one question: Is it ever worth it to annex? I annexed Granada, but since then the nationalist revolts have gotten so bad I'm seriously considering releasing it as a vassal along with Gibraltar. Then again, as I hinted above, I have terrible stability and bankrupt soldiers who can't do much more than sternly reprimand the rebels, so perhaps revolts are only a problem if you're in bad shape, like me. In particular, I haven't had any problems with the third Granadan province (I think it's called Almercia?) since I converted it to Catholicism and purged Granada's core from it.

tl;dr: Annexation? Should I avoid it unless I need to complete a mission, or are there circumstances where it's worthwhile to directly control the entire nation?

[Frozen_Predator]

Assuming you have Divine wind, if you are the emperor you get random imperial provinces via events (for the player or AI who cedes the province - not the emperor. Don't recall the events name but i do remember if you refuse to cede the land you'll take a stability hit.) For example, in my Bohemia game i gained all of Brandenburg via this (which i then released as a vassal.) if your not the emperor, then its possible that patriots are rebelling in those provinces and they happen to defect to you, assuming same culture type/group.

the event is formal request, triggered when a nation holds an imperial province without having a core it can choose between a stability hit, higher revolt risk in the province and lesser taxes in the province until it cores or they can hand it over to the emperor.

the AI however is incapable of dealing with these provinces as intended, namely releasing them as vassals, thus increasing the amount of states in the HRE and giving more bonuses to the emperor. however the AI holds onto the provinces

[Om]

Right now, thought, I've got one question: Is it ever worth it to annex?In my experience: almost always. Nationalism recedes over a decade or so, so swallowing your conquests is not always easy. The added income and manpower is typically worth it in the long run though

There are a few things that would give me pause for thought however:

Different cultures or religions add significantly to your stability costs. You'll also get reduced income from these, on top of the non-core penalty

All new provinces increase your technology costs. As a result smaller nations can find it easier to tech up

Badboy and other strategic concerns. Annexation can poison your relations with other nations while complicating your position at home. BB is particularly important for those pursuing trade strategies - it has a serious impact on your merchants' competition chances

With this in mind you have to weigh up the costs. A poor province (base income 1 or 2) that has a different culture and religion may actually be an overall liability when added to your empire. In this case vassalisation (which provides half the vassal's income) may be more profitable. Granada should be worth annexing though - if only to paint Iberia yellow

[Jamin]

Also always Vassalize Electors. Even if you are not a HRE member the bonus is big enough that they should vote for you. Unless you have a republic.

[Grif]

the event is formal request, triggered when a nation holds an imperial province without having a core it can choose between a stability hit, higher revolt risk in the province and lesser taxes in the province until it cores or they can hand it over to the emperor.

the AI however is incapable of dealing with these provinces as intended, namely releasing them as vassals, thus increasing the amount of states in the HRE and giving more bonuses to the emperor. however the AI holds onto the provinces

That must be it. I got bits of pieces of land all over the HRE, courtesy of the incessant warfare and annexation.

That said, my infamy is now 15 and I'll probably be hated on by most other nations soon if this keeps up. How the heck does one ditch the unlawful territory penalty?

[Frozen_Predator]

That must be it. I got bits of pieces of land all over the HRE, courtesy of the incessant warfare and annexation.

That said, my infamy is now 15 and I'll probably be hated on by most other nations soon if this keeps up. How the heck does one ditch the unlawful territory penalty?

have the provinces core, then they become lawful territory

selling the provinces to nations with cores on them also works

gaining territory in the HRE has grown more difficult.

on the subject of annexation i am actually carefull, i usually only annex nations with really rich provinces/high manpower provinces. otherwise vassalisation. cores are also a major factor and if i succeed in annexing a large nation where i have several cores i will usually make sure i promote cultural unity on my cores and then release the rest of the nation as a vassal.

then again i like small empires, theres nothing like playing a German medium power with fully developed provinces, a high technology and a maxed out quality slider combined with militia act and esprit d'corps facing a blob. as long as you can avoid being outnumbered 10 to 1 of course

[Aragehaor]

the event is formal request, triggered when a nation holds an imperial province without having a core it can choose between a stability hit, higher revolt risk in the province and lesser taxes in the province until it cores or they can hand it over to the emperor.

the AI however is incapable of dealing with these provinces as intended, namely releasing them as vassals, thus increasing the amount of states in the HRE and giving more bonuses to the emperor. however the AI holds onto the provinces

Probably should of specified that i annexed Brandenburg via the formal request event because they got torn apart by various German minors. (Rather then annexing him while he was alive and well with cores.) :smallredface:


Right now, thought, I've got one question: Is it ever worth it to annex? Personally, i like to make medium sized nations my vassals to disable them and then slowly diplo-annex my way through them. small nations i generally annex due to them not generally being worth keeping as a vassal. (Though that isnt to say they can never be useful.) vassals are not only a useful buffer against larger nations, but also tend to (in my experience, anyways.) fight very valiantly on your behalf.

Example: I vassalized(?) Bohemia as Austria via a subjugation casus belli (At least im pretty sure thats what it was called.) slightly later i ended up at war with Unified France, Bohemia sent its army and raided the northern french provinces - taking them quickly and moving on - while my army occupied the french to the south and middle. the war ended in two years with me acquiring the french center of trade in Antwerpen and several other rich provinces on the northern coast.

In your case, your not going to really be able to put down those rebels - if you weren't bankrupt it wouldn't be a problem. But with bankruptcy and -3 stability those rebels have the run of the country, I'd release what you can as vassals and diplo-annex them when you've recovered. (There is a ten year waiting time from when you make a vassal to when you can annex it, and then another ten years to annex another one.)

EDIT: to answer your question. Yes, its worth it to annex. but theres certainly reason not to... such as being bankrupt. :smalltongue:

[Grif]

have the provinces core, then they become lawful territory

selling the provinces to nations with cores on them also works

gaining territory in the HRE has grown more difficult.

on the subject of annexation i am actually carefull, i usually only annex nations with really rich provinces/high manpower provinces. otherwise vassalisation. cores are also a major factor and if i succeed in annexing a large nation where i have several cores i will usually make sure i promote cultural unity on my cores and then release the rest of the nation as a vassal.

then again i like small empires, theres nothing like playing a German medium power with fully developed provinces, a high technology and a maxed out quality slider combined with militia act and esprit d'corps facing a blob. as long as you can avoid being outnumbered 10 to 1 of course

Hm okay. Going to have to vassalise the furthest bits of territory I have first then. The infamy hit is painful.

[Frozen_Predator]

indeed it is, btw just thought of some other reasons why you might choose vassalisation over annexation:

-vassals don't hurt your tech growth, once you get over a certain number of provinces technological growth gets more expensive, hence why OPM's tend to have the highest tech.

-aside from fighting for you without ever signing a truce with the enemy vassals also give part of their incoem to you and increase your land force limits.


I wish i could help you deal with the bankrupcy but the days of being completely new to the game are quite a bit in the past, i do remember just starting a new game was my usual strategy and use the lessons learned.

[Grif]

Got my Infamy to 34, and suddenly half of the world declares on me.

Game over. :smallbiggrin:

Going to need to watch the Infamy count next time. But it was a good run. I managed to overrun Hungary with my superior army. But lost badly to France with its awesome generals. And vassalised lots of bits and pieces of duchies. Pretty weird actually.

[Frozen_Predator]

when not experienced at the game its a good idea to set lucky nations to random or none before starting, it should reduce the amount of AI super generals greatly

[Om]

It also reduces the challenge. EUIII is not a difficult game and the point of lucky nations is to help the AI present a decent mid-game threat

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

It also reduces the challenge. EUIII is not a difficult game and the point of lucky nations is to help the AI present a decent mid-game threat

Uh, we're talking about if you're just learning and are having trouble, Om.

[Om]

And sure then why not make colonists and missionaries free? And simply reload after every defeat?

I repeat: EUIII is not a difficult game and it is not necessary to reduce the AI challenges in order to pick the mechanics up. This is particularly so when the key to success is managing your own empire and knowing when to pick your fights. The lesson that Grif has learnt (or should have :smallwink:) is not to fight a better war against the French but rather to better manage his expansion so as not to incur the BBB's wrath until a later date

[Murska]

Heh. One of the more annoying things is to be happily playing the game through as the Emperor and then suddenly get declared a Reconquest war on by some huge nation far away from you. Then you go like "Wait what?" and go check and oops, Riga was gifted to you by the Teutonic Order or whatever. Why don't those people care to actually inform the Emperor when they give him land is beyond me. :smallconfused:

[Cespenar]

It also reduces the challenge. EUIII is not a difficult game and the point of lucky nations is to help the AI present a decent mid-game threat

It depends on the country, really. Play the Knights or something and tell me it's easy.

[Grif]

Heh. One of the more annoying things is to be happily playing the game through as the Emperor and then suddenly get declared a Reconquest war on by some huge nation far away from you. Then you go like "Wait what?" and go check and oops, Riga was gifted to you by the Teutonic Order or whatever. Why don't those people care to actually inform the Emperor when they give him land is beyond me. :smallconfused:

There was a couple of times I discovered I got new lands when there was a nationalistic rebellion on my hand. Of course it had to be at Riga, a few months march away. :smallannoyed:

[Grif]

I hope this isn't considered double posting. :/

Anyway, I got another game with Austria going, this time playing safe and generally being a nice guy. Vassalised Bohemia early. Proved to be the best decision yet. The duchy was a solid backup to any military affair I got myself involved it.

The most fun I had was when I got to tech level 18 first and proceeded to dismember France into its constituent duchies. (Tech 18 infantry is the boss against cavalry heavy French.) Poor France was slowly swallowed up by subsequent wars and was forced to release more duchies.

By 1555, I got the most of the HRE as my vassal, though I'm still some ways away from actually forming the empire. Not sure if I want to, since the benefits is quite nice. Then again, the sheer number of popups I get everytime I declare on someone is getting overwhelming. (Also declaring the HRE empire to be my vassals sparked like 6 different wars against various duchies and I had vassals going to war against me. My own vassals. The heck?)

Have a map.
http://www.dumpyourphoto.com/files2/60557/iIoj4.jpg

(Also, the Byzantines are now muslims. LoL.)

[Jamin]

In my French game one of my Vassals was Defender of a rival Faith. We got in a few wars before I just forced them to convert.

[Frozen_Predator]

In my French game one of my Vassals was Defender of a rival Faith. We got in a few wars before I just forced them to convert.

never had that problem. what is fun however is attempting to enact renovatio imperii with high bb. and watch as your loyal vassals swarm over you.

[Murska]

One of my friends had a hilarious start with Frankfurt. Playing a peaceful trade nation, getting a TON of cash and extremely fast technology as an one-province minor, and then when he was ahead in tech of everyone else...

Some hundred or so years into the game, he somehow inherited both France and Poland (that had inherited Lithuania). Some more years later, he was the Emperor. A few more years later, he unified the HRE.

Hilarious. He said his only problem after the France inherit was that the Europe in Frankfurt's colours looked horrible.

[Grif]

never had that problem. what is fun however is attempting to enact renovatio imperii with high bb. and watch as your loyal vassals swarm over you.

I did that. I ended up with 15 wars against half the world before I decided I had enough and got a clean start. It was hilarious though. My screen was full of declaration popups. (I had 11 allies at the time. So... they declared on whoever declared on me).


Now I'm sitting in 1610 with 6k ducats. What the heck am I going to spend it on? (0 merchants, 0 spies, 0 missionaries, 0 colonists) I already have the largest standing army in the world. Meh maybe I can build 100 large ship for fun and crush Great Britain now.

[Murska]

Only 6k? That disappears instantly on manufactories.

[Grif]

Only 6k? That disappears instantly on manufactories.

Yeah, but I had limited core provinces (um 12?), so manufactories all done for the moment. (Haven't enacted the last reform in HRE, still waiting for some poor sap to declare on my allies so that I can beat him down to extract authority).

Bah, gonna just wait for these colonies to core then. And maybe steal some land off the natives.

[Cespenar]

Only 6k? That disappears instantly on manufactories.

I'd rather spend it on humongous armies and then be able to pay it off the treasury. Oh, also send spies to everywhere.

[Murska]

Yeah, but I had limited core provinces (um 12?), so manufactories all done for the moment. (Haven't enacted the last reform in HRE, still waiting for some poor sap to declare on my allies so that I can beat him down to extract authority).

Bah, gonna just wait for these colonies to core then. And maybe steal some land off the natives.

Release a vassal, wait five years, re-annex it with reconquest - zero infamy.

[Grif]

Release a vassal, wait five years, re-annex it with reconquest - zero infamy.

That did the trick. So now I control all of modern Germany and half of France, have colonies in both North and South America. On the downside, I have rebellions popping up every few months now. :smalleek:

Going to be a busy 50 years while waiting for these to core. (I wonder how they distribute these core provinces in the HRE. It seems random. I get cores on some provinces I inherited and none on the others.)

[Frozen_Predator]

noone knows how those cores are distributed.

however i still say you should've kept your vassal swarm rather than a massive outstretched border.

once imageshack has stopped acting like an annoying child i'll put up a screenshot of my current byzantine game

[Grif]

noone knows how those cores are distributed.

however i still say you should've kept your vassal swarm rather than a massive outstretched border.

once imageshack has stopped acting like an annoying child i'll put up a screenshot of my current byzantine game

I'm beginning to think that as well. At least I didn't need to worry about pirates in my colonies. (The Hansa was so helpful in patrolling the sea-lanes). Plus watching my vassals crush any impetuous whelp who declares on me was fun.

But I was curious to see what the HRE flag will be. (And what it feels like to control a massive country with several dozens of provinces. Argh, Not. Enough. Magistrates!)

[Gaius Marius]

One of the tweak I programmer into this game was side effects due to manufactories.

Refineries would give a 1% bonus on Trade Efficiency
Manufactory give 1% bonus on Production Efficiency
University give -0,1% technology cost
Fine Art give 1% stability investment
Weapon Manufactory give 0,1% yearly army tradition
Naval Supply Manufactory give 0,1% yearly navy tradition.

It's not much, but it sure feels a bit different than to throw 6000 for a meager +12 production bonus than you don't even cash in fully.

[Thanqol]

That must be it. I got bits of pieces of land all over the HRE, courtesy of the incessant warfare and annexation.

That said, my infamy is now 15 and I'll probably be hated on by most other nations soon if this keeps up. How the heck does one ditch the unlawful territory penalty?

Incidentally, as the LP proved, the awesome way to ditch the unlawful territory penalty is DESTROY THE ENTIRE HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE.


I'm beginning to think that as well. At least I didn't need to worry about pirates in my colonies. (The Hansa was so helpful in patrolling the sea-lanes). Plus watching my vassals crush any impetuous whelp who declares on me was fun.

But I was curious to see what the HRE flag will be. (And what it feels like to control a massive country with several dozens of provinces. Argh, Not. Enough. Magistrates!)

Sphere everyone. Each country in your sphere gives bonus magistrates and diplomacy.

[Grif]

One of the tweak I programmer into this game was side effects due to manufactories.

Refineries would give a 1% bonus on Trade Efficiency
Manufactory give 1% bonus on Production Efficiency
University give -0,1% technology cost
Fine Art give 1% stability investment
Weapon Manufactory give 0,1% yearly army tradition
Naval Supply Manufactory give 0,1% yearly navy tradition.

It's not much, but it sure feels a bit different than to throw 6000 for a meager +12 production bonus than you don't even cash in fully.

Sounds nice. There don't seem to be a point to these manufactories after a certain size.

@Thanqol
I cannot count how many ways I agree with you. In all my future games as a german duchy, my first priority is dismantling the HRE. Period.

[Frozen_Predator]

One of the tweak I programmer into this game was side effects due to manufactories.

Refineries would give a 1% bonus on Trade Efficiency
Manufactory give 1% bonus on Production Efficiency
University give -0,1% technology cost
Fine Art give 1% stability investment
Weapon Manufactory give 0,1% yearly army tradition
Naval Supply Manufactory give 0,1% yearly navy tradition.

It's not much, but it sure feels a bit different than to throw 6000 for a meager +12 production bonus than you don't even cash in fully.

you do realise that the manu's already have side effects do you?

Refineries gives a +5 on trade tech
textile gives a +5 on production tech
University gives a +5 on gov tech
Fine Art gives a +2 yearly on cultural tradition
Weapon Manufactory gives a +5 on land tech
Naval Supply Manufactory gives a +5 on naval tech

also they all give 1% pop growth

your upgrades make them quite overpowered.

[Gaius Marius]

The trade tech bonuses are meaningless for a large empire. The population growth bonus are a drop in the ocean.

Yhea, it makes them a bit more powerful (and a lot more meaningful for a large Empire), but it's an overall bonus that all players get, so I don't think it unbalance things.

Tax assessor are actually a lot more important.

[Frozen_Predator]

The trade tech bonuses are meaningless for a large empire. The population growth bonus are a drop in the ocean.

Yhea, it makes them a bit more powerful (and a lot more meaningful for a large Empire), but it's an overall bonus that all players get, so I don't think it unbalance things.

Tax assessor are actually a lot more important.

indeed they are, shame that you can have only one as of DW.

though i still disagree with manufacturies needing a boost, large empires are already strong enough and can't upgrade everywhere
btw here is a screenshot from my current Byzantium game
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/8479/eu3247.png