Death-culting for dummies.

[druid91]

So again for a recent character, However this time non mechanical, so I think it goes here.

Basically, One of the characters goals is to start a death cult, or more accurately an undeath cult.

A subculture where necromancy is common. And transition into an intelligent undead is seen in a positive light.

As for the starting point... It isn't much.

The DMs note on magic
A note on Magiks
Magic in human communities is rare. It is often shunned, considered unnatural, a sign of the dragons blood, a curse on whomever posses it. Magicians are often exiled. Divine magic makes people similarly uncomfortable. It is less unacceptable, but still frowned upon. There are few (if any clerics). Druids may exist in the wild, but they are hunted and killed almost universally. Sorcerers are often exiled into the wild. Some people attempt to keep their latent talents hidden. Paladins are acceptable, since their might almost exclusively is used to smite their foes quickly. Many paladins carry a secret shame for their abilities, and regard it as their duty to employ the unnatural powers.
Arcane magik is quite illegal. Those who study it are often exiled as well, after all their research materials are thoroughly burned, of course.

Healing magic is considered absolutely taboo in human cultures. Healing a human often causes them to commit ritual suicide. There is an ancient superstition that healing is tied to necromancy, that it twists nature and defies the will of the gods. Elven communities have no such taboo, and Dwarven healers are rare, due to the constitution and pride of the Dwarves.

So as you can see I have a lot of work cut out for me if I want to get this cult of evil corpse stealing lunatics set up.

So far my ideas consist of:
1. Tyrrany, Make them accept it because there is no other choice, I'll get willing converts eventually.

2. The sneaky route, Finding people with magical talent and convincing them to join. leave town and the townsfolk are none the wiser.

3. The really sneaky route, in the event that the young folk don't trust good old uncle necromancer... Engineer a threat to the town they live in. Hire some mercenaries, have them attack an orc tribe but leave a map and vivid description of the rewrds the mercenaries were to recieve fr being the primary defenders of the town.

[Cerlis]

I was going to go on this big tirade about getting children and youths to rebel against their parents. of seducing youths and casters and tred upon people by giving a sympathetic ear and home and friendship.

but really, i think every way to legitimately going people who arent going to outright bite their tongue off (and thus bleed to death) to avoid being tainted by evil, to like the cultists is just going to make them feel betrayed when they see the darkness of your intentions. Either you need to get people who have already turned to the darkside or do some mind bending or maybe turn people into zombie servants and allow them to raise in power and free will (basically starting as a zombie then a zombie lord and work your way up to lich)

[SilverLeaf167]

Minor spelling rant: the spoiler keeps switching between "magic" and magik".

People with questionable morales could perhaps be convinced that magic isn't evil (giving some "good" examples) or simply seduced to the Dark Side with how powerful magic is. If healing is considered necromancy, saving someone's life with healing spells might convince them to believe necromancy is good, too.

[druid91]

Minor spelling rant: the spoiler keeps switching between "magic" and magik".

People with questionable morales could perhaps be convinced that magic isn't evil (giving some "good" examples) or simply seduced to the Dark Side with how powerful magic is. If healing is considered necromancy, saving someone's life with healing spells might convince them to believe necromancy is good, too.

Wasn't me that wrote the spoiler, that's a quote from the DM.

But healing causes ritual suicide...

[Ashiel]

Wasn't me that wrote the spoiler, that's a quote from the DM.

But healing causes ritual suicide...

This just in! Cure minor wounds used as grave punishments leading to deaths. Mass cure light wounds causes death of town!

[SilverLeaf167]

But healing causes ritual suicide...
Note: it often causes ritual suicide. :smallwink:
Anyway, the cult should definitely have a Bard (or similar, if a different system) to do it this way: they have healing, enchantment and can become amazing Diplomancers.

[Analytica]

Wasn't me that wrote the spoiler, that's a quote from the DM.

But healing causes ritual suicide...

Just as not every failed samurai or widow in a widow-burning culture meekly accept that fate, it would seem odd if every single person in this world was such total fanatics that they did so.

Could you heal people in secret, then blackmail them about it?

If this was an anime series, there should be a group of "tainted persons" who have undergone healing and now live as refugees somewhere. The heroes should angst a lot, then lead these in rebellion. :smallbiggrin:

[BlackestOfMages]

question: if necromancy is common and not frowned upon, and being an intelegant undead (a body and a crapload of magic, in physical terms) how can magic be illegal and hated?

[Mastikator]

The promise of eternal life is very alluring and in this case sort of kind of true. :smallwink:

They can be open about the promise of eternal life, which frankly shouldn't even arise suspicion, and then just not give out any details non-followers about the actual procedure. Maybe it's a combination of turning people into wights and using gentle repose (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/gentleRepose.htm) to make them seem less scary undead and more alive but with no pulse and also cold :smallamused:

The cult leader could be a simple wight with 3 levels in cleric (so it can cast gentle repose). Bam, you got not only promise of eternal life, but delivery as well.

[druid91]

question: if necromancy is common and not frowned upon, and being an intelegant undead (a body and a crapload of magic, in physical terms) how can magic be illegal and hated?

It's not common...:smallconfused:

My characters goal is to make it common. To start undead cults in human society and hopefully overrun it to the point where arcane magic, necromancy in particular, are seen in a better light than the current burn the wizard model.

[Oracle_Hunter]

We need more information for this taboo. Why does it exist? Is there a pervasive church/institution that preaches against it? Is it global?

If the response is "the world is like this, okay" then you're going to have problems doing anything. If not, find a place where Magic is somewhat less reviled and work there.

* * * *

The only other thing I can think of is to become a Lich and then seek other Arcane casters to mentor. If the heavily-prosecuted casters discover a nigh-immortal caster that is willing to teach them how to become immortal too, they're likely to sign up - regardless of the terms of service.

In the alternative, you can become a Vampire and convert a small army of Vampires to your side. Then use your Vampire Army to establish a kingdom where Arcane Magic is welcome. You can get recruits that way too - and with most of the world's casters under your control, you'll be plenty powerful to boot.

[druid91]

We need more information for this taboo. Why does it exist? Is there a pervasive church/institution that preaches against it? Is it global?

If the response is "the world is like this, okay" then you're going to have problems doing anything. If not, find a place where Magic is somewhat less reviled and work there.

* * * *

The only other thing I can think of is to become a Lich and then seek other Arcane casters to mentor. If the heavily-prosecuted casters discover a nigh-immortal caster that is willing to teach them how to become immortal too, they're likely to sign up - regardless of the terms of service.

In the alternative, you can become a Vampire and convert a small army of Vampires to your side. Then use your Vampire Army to establish a kingdom where Arcane Magic is welcome. You can get recruits that way too - and with most of the world's casters under your control, you'll be plenty powerful to boot.

Basically, magic is the elven butchers tool. Divine magic is ok but arcane magic was pretty much the elves thing.

Paladins and clerics are the closest thing to accepted magic users.

Kinda like Ishval in fullmetal alchemist, initial dislike and superstition combined with massive atrocities commited with said skill to create an extremely hostile environment.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Basically, magic is the elven butchers tool. Divine magic is ok but arcane magic was pretty much the elves thing.
I see.

How exactly did this magic-phobic kingdom survive the magically-empowered Elves? :smallconfused:

* * * *

Anyhow, the "Arcane Amnesty" approach still seems like the best idea. Take over a patch of land and declare it as an amnesty-zone for all magic users. Also encourage the development of necromantic magic here "for defense" and point out that you can make the persecuted mages nigh-immortal with the Lich Ritual.

For extra lulz, get an alliance with the Elves so that the Human Army might not decide to mobilize and murder you. In the alternative, a non-aggression pact with the Elves will at least open the lines of communication such that when the Humans decide to crush you, the Elven armies can march in on Human Lands unopposed.

The long-term plan is to leverage magic to make your kingdom into a powerful entity that will absorb refugees looking for a better life. If you use undead to make everyone's life easier then this should be fairly easy to do.

[druid91]

I see.

How exactly did this magic-phobic kingdom survive the magically-empowered Elves? :smallconfused:

* * * *

Anyhow, the "Arcane Amnesty" approach still seems like the best idea. Take over a patch of land and declare it as an amnesty-zone for all magic users. Also encourage the development of necromantic magic here "for defense" and point out that you can make the persecuted mages nigh-immortal with the Lich Ritual.

For extra lulz, get an alliance with the Elves so that the Human Army might not decide to mobilize and murder you. In the alternative, a non-aggression pact with the Elves will at least open the lines of communication such that when the Humans decide to crush you, the Elven armies can march in on Human Lands unopposed.

The long-term plan is to leverage magic to make your kingdom into a powerful entity that will absorb refugees looking for a better life. If you use undead to make everyone's life easier then this should be fairly easy to do.

Because they are colonies not the empire proper, The humans have gone on a cycle a few times now of step 1: Troops arrive from empire proper, way over across the sea, step 2: Invasion begins of elven lands. step 3: Elves kill enough of them that they back off and turn peaceful for a number of years, until the current ruler decides he needs elvish stuff and sends another few thousand troops over...

That and clerics and paladins are accepted, if not exactly the most popular of people.

Its arcane magic users that have problems with angry mobs and bounty hunters.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Because they are colonies not the empire proper, The humans have gone on a cycle a few times now of step 1: Troops arrive from empire proper, way over across the sea, step 2: Invasion begins of elven lands. step 3: Elves kill enough of them that they back off and turn peaceful for a number of years, until the current ruler decides he needs elvish stuff and sends another few thousand troops over...

That and clerics and paladins are accepted, if not exactly the most popular of people.

Its arcane magic users that have problems with angry mobs and bounty hunters.
Oh, so the Humans are the invaders every time. Why the hell does the common man have such a visceral reaction to the "tools" of savages across the sea? If the Elves kept subjugating the Human Lands I would understand the hatred of the tools of the oppressor; but the tools of a people that the Human rulers feel they can take? Really? :smallconfused:

More importantly, if Divine magic is A-OK, then why would being exposed to healing magic provoke thoughts of suicide? Isn't Healing mostly what Divine Magic is used for?

* * * *

So... what do you think of the Arcane Amnesty idea?

[druid91]

Oh, so the Humans are the invaders every time. Why the hell does the common man have such a visceral reaction to the "tools" of savages across the sea? If the Elves kept subjugating the Human Lands I would understand the hatred of the tools of the oppressor; but the tools of a people that the Human rulers feel they can take? Really? :smallconfused:

More importantly, if Divine magic is A-OK, then why would being exposed to healing magic provoke thoughts of suicide? Isn't Healing mostly what Divine Magic is used for?

* * * *

So... what do you think of the Arcane Amnesty idea?

Sounds good, at least after I get to the point where I have the strength to back it up.

Because the campaign is set in those colonies. We aren't on the mainland, we are among people who have either seen freinds torn apart by magic, or have been raised thinking magic is the weapon of the enemy. Combine that with the usual prejudice against magic and that's the setting.

Obviously this isn't completely universal or human arcane casters wouldn't exist, but it's pervasive enough to be a problem.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Because the campaign is set in those colonies. We aren't on the mainland, we are among people who have either seen freinds torn apart by magic, or have been raised thinking magic is the weapon of the enemy. Combine that with the usual prejudice against magic and that's the setting.
Ah, so you are in Human colonies located on an Elven continent? Convenient!

Any chance you can ally with the elves under the guise of establishing proof of "peaceful coexistence" such that they give you territory within Elven Lands to establish your Sanctuary in exchange for a promise to rally the Human Colonies to their defense next time the Imperial Legions come?

Such an arrangement will keep you safe from immediate reprisal from the Human Colonies while (likely) giving you enough autonomy to set up your undead-loving ways under the benign neglect of the Elven Authorities. Then, once you've gathered up enough Arcane Casters and produced enough Undead, you can work your way to becoming a Lich before the Imperial Legions arrive.

[druid91]

Ah, so you are in Human colonies located on an Elven continent? Convenient!

Any chance you can ally with the elves under the guise of establishing proof of "peaceful coexistence" such that they give you territory within Elven Lands to establish your Sanctuary in exchange for a promise to rally the Human Colonies to their defense next time the Imperial Legions come?

Such an arrangement will keep you safe from immediate reprisal from the Human Colonies while (likely) giving you enough autonomy to set up your undead-loving ways under the benign neglect of the Elven Authorities. Then, once you've gathered up enough Arcane Casters and produced enough Undead, you can work your way to becoming a Lich before the Imperial Legions arrive.

Considering there is a dwarf in the party (The humans only, mostly, succesful conquest on that continent) They might listen long enough.

Especially since according to the DM once you get out of Arcanaphobe lands necromancy is considered no more good or evil than any other school.

[Randel]

Question: How much do the human colonies like eachother or the mainland?

I'm reading this and its reminding me of American history except in this case the natives have powerful magic on their side.

If the colonists are basically sitting on a continent primarily owned by magic-wielding elves who can tear apart armies... and the mainland sends armies of thousands every few years... what's to stop the elves from basically saying "screw this! These humans aren't going to be helpful at all. Let's erase them from thecontinent and set up some fortifications on the coast to sink any human ships that come to bother us again."?

Keep in mind that elves (in most settings) are supposed to have really long lives. Any generation of elves today would have elves who remember all those times that humans acted nice and then escalated their unrest until the main goverment sent another bunch of troops to attack.

Keep in mind that in the real world the USA got involved in several wars in the 20th century. WWI, WWII, The Vietnam War, The Cold War (which never went hot but could well have destroyed the planet if it had), and a few others I can't recall right now. The point is that in 100 years there were at least four wars, that's one every 20 years. To humans, that's about long enough for the soldiers of one war to have kids who grow up hearing stories from their dads and go to fight in the next war.

Elves live for hundreds of years and I think reach adulthood sometime in their 50's or 70's. So a young cadet Elf would likely have grown up listening to stories from his dad describing two or three wars they had with the humans before he himself goes to fight them.

The point? Elves know that humans will keep attacking, they've seen them attack and know how humans fight, and they think long-term enough to set traps and stuff years in advance for when the humans have their next attack. Elves may lack the numers that humans have, but they make up for it in skill, planning ahead, and knowing the terrain.


As for the colonists... if they even have a passing familiarity with the Elves then they know that the elves have their number.

Human: Hello there Farnella.

Elf: Hello Gary. What is the news from your town?

Human: Oh its the usual, kids disrespecting their elders, higher taxes, the people back home demanding more animal hides.

Elf: Ah, that time of the decade again. I remember when your father complained about an increase in taxes from the human homeland. There were comlaints for a bit, even that time when a group of nobles students dressed up in masks and started vandalising property from the homeland as some sort of 'rebellion'.

Human: Yeah... the Red Mask Rebellion, was it?

Elf: I suppose, that was enough of an excuse for the officials back home to send in more troops to 'pacify' the area. The troops kept the colonists in lie (your father was mixed on that) and after sending over a dozen ships full I guess the army figured they had enough men to invade our lands. Apparenly they thought they could take more of our trinkets.

Human: ...

Elf: A pity really, I suppose those soldiers thought they were doing their duty. I suspect... oh, five or six years before the King tries to attack us again. He'll send troops from the homeland for certain but it's possible he might try to recruit from local colonists. *looks to Gary* I would like it very much if you didn't let your sone join the attack against us if that happens. Losing a child is not something I would wish upon you.


So yeah, if the elves are long lived and smart enough and strong enough to deal out arcane magic in battles then its quite possible that at least some of the local humans know just how tough the elves are to beat. For any battle the humans take against the elves, they'll be facing an enemy more experienced and who had time to prepare for them.


So, I'm guessing that at least a few people would see the elves as being pretty tough to fight or it would be better to ally with them. Either start a new colony or somehow get one to rebell and then let it be known that this place provides amnesty for arcane users. The elves might agree to not attack them, or help them out, or teach the colonists their ways (would likely involve teaching them elven religion to fully convert them so they don't give up their secrets to the humans). This could get other loalist humans against you and the homeland sends troops to pacify the area, but you know that will happen and can prepare for it.

Or... you know that the homeland won't be sending any big surges in troops for a while (due to not having enough excess population since the last big war) so you can get your place set up for a while and gather new recruits.

Depending on how you want to go with this, your could either start your own little colony to spread magic. Or you could outright join the elves and see how they treat their magic or their religions or whatnot.

[Hyudra]

I think the most important thing is to establish oneself in a community. If you're roaming, then it's going to be an uphill battle with each community you enter.

Once you've found a community that you can settle in, you want to gather information. Who's who, what's going on, etc. In any given place, there's someone who knows everyone. Find this person (ideally someone who can make good gather information and knowledge-local checks) and befriend them. If no such person is evident, find someone down on their luck and get them on their feet, establish them as an assistant and information gatherer for you. Portraying yourself (without outright stating such) as an aristocrat down on his luck or a noble youth who has abandoned his family would probably go a long ways towards helping sell this.

Once you've established yourself, you need to make yourself a fixture in the community. Be selfless, put people in your debt, but don't exploit it or let it hang over their heads. The Ortell family tavern is in debt? Help them out with a few hundred gold, and just ask only that they keep a good bottle of spirits on hand for when you come by, in exchange.

Your goal isn't to find a victim and undeadify them. You want to make people believe, deep down, no suspicions, that what you're doing is good in intent. As such, when you do reveal your magical powers, you want it to be benevolent. Someone's parent dies, you could use speak with dead to give them a chance to say their goodbyes. By the time you do move on to bigger and blacker magics, you should either have convinced them heart and soul, or you should have them so deeply in your debt that they can't afford to cast you out for going just one step further than you had previously.

Now, from a metagaming standpoint, what you need to keep in mind is that your DM has established a 'burn the witch' setting, and you're playing a witch. Depending on the nature of this particular DM, odds are that you're either going to be:

A) A good example for this aspect of the setting. (ie. first chance, he'll have a lynch mob on your heels)

B) Someone screwing with his setting concept. (ie. you're a player against him).

With this in mind, be prepared to make big sacrifices. You need to be over the top in how you sell what you're doing, not just to convince the villagers, but to convince the DM.

This is on top of all the crap that's going to come down on a village or town if you show you care about it.

Take your time, don't be rushed, don't let yourself be baited. This is going to be a fairly slow process, so draw it out, make allies, and make it so that DM gets impatient and actually starts helping you along.

[Tiki Snakes]

The Arcane Amnesty / Mutual Defence League option seems to be the way to go, to me. See if you can form some kind of pro-magic organisation, even. A Few Druids and Clerics and so on to back up and round out your Wizards can't be a bad thing. Keep a neutral ethical outlook, and play to the benefits of magic.

Offer healing or disease purging services on a no-questions asked, anonymous basis, perhaps the ressurection and re-location of lost loved ones and their families? Help getting the most out of your crops, exotic items and services and all the other myriad wonders that the magical world can provide, and just kind of sit back and let it come to you. If you happen to just mix necromancy in with this, you should be able to eventually build up an atmosphere of tolerance reguarding the Dark Arts and can go from there in any direction you fancy.

[Jothki]

My suggestion would be to try to convince people that their society is maliciously harming them by taking away the power of magic.

Find someone who is suffering through no fault of their own, and has been or will be for some time. Tell them that you can fix their problem with magic. Fix their problem with magic. There, that was easy, wasn't it? Why didn't anyone think to do that before? Oh, wait, because magic is evil, and all that unnecessary suffering you went through was therefore good.

If you're impatient, create a plague or something, that'll get you a bunch of victims.

[Crafty Cultist]

I'm always a fan of the "undeath is the next stage in the cycle of life" style of undead marketing. In a world where the existance of the gods is uncertain, things work even better. A certain, and easily attainable afterlife could attract a lot of followers.

I agree with the idea of convincing young spellcasters to join your cause. Being there for them when no one else was, will help ensure their loyalty in the future. Even if they have a few moral objections to what you're doing, it should be easy to convice them to follow your views over society's.

As for recruitment, its all about the grapevine. Spread rumours of an order of mages who grant eternal life through undeath to those who follow them. Most will discard the rumours, and there might be a few suspicious types who try to investigate, but there should be a small group who try to find out more.

An important point I'd make is that true immortality can only be granted to those who were faithful in life. Those who follow you willingly retain their sentience, while those who oppose you are revived as mindless zombies. Your mages should have no problem subjigating those who persecuted them(at least with proper guidance), and with proper justification, your other followers should accept it. Just say that souls that opposed the faith are not able to endure the transformation.

When your movment finally goes public, do it in the form of a vicious coup agaist the local authorities. Justify your actions as a counterattack against the persecution mages have faced. Execute the heads of state or what have you, but ensure that the majority of the populace is treated with respect, provided they do not oppose you. With time, you may be able to convince them to join your movement.

One thing to be careful about is that you convert your followers into undead that do not need to feed. Preying on the living will turn people away and draw unwanted attention to your group.


Hope I've helped:smallbiggrin:

[Jallorn]

Start an organization, a gang is usually a good bet, as a cover. Draw in young people, convince them to trust you, and then confide in them, one at a time, that you wield magic, and that it's not really evil, but common people fear, rightly, what it could do in the wrong hands. But that you envision a future where magic makes the world better, where people don't have to die because they can become undead, and where no one fears what one individual may do with magic, because they know there are at hundreds if not thousands of people who would stand up with their own magic, or even, maybe, the best outcome would be for everyone to wield magic, it wouldn't be special, but it would still make the world a better place.

Then you induct them into your Death Cult.

I advise starting with a group of other magic users as your co-conspirators in the initial stages of this endeavor.

[profitofrage]

Ok, Ill start by saying that there are brilliant suggestions that have already been stated, dont ignore these there your best bet and success.

The next point is that dont pick just one.
Your in a strong position, the strongest of positions. You have access to an arsenal the enemy has no counter for and cannot use against you.
You have an infinite supply of resources people require (food, healing e.t.c) and you can make use of all these resources on an individual level.

This means that you need not worry about them tracing things back to your state, or needing your people in order to access your resources.
In other words...so long as you survive...you cant lose.
make a plauge (as stated above) set it on the towns furthest away from the elves (so there not blamed) and watch as there rulers have no way to help them. At the same time start several of your wight clerics (idea from above) searching for potential magical recruits e.t.c in another part of the country.
Have all your plans going at ounce, because theres nothing to really stop you.
With your party helping you oversee things, youll change the setting to your advantage.
The empire itself will be at ill, to many problems and no solutions. People trying to escape the plauge will hear of the terrible things happening in other places and soon the populace will have nowhere to turn.
When things are at its peak...THEN jump in. Pool your resources and offer a sanctuary. Fanatics only move on when theres nowhere else to turn.