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Doc Roc
2011-05-05, 03:17 PM
Hello, I am an angry man.
Perhaps you too, are angry? Bitter? Seeking some sort of vindication in a large world spiraling oddly away from you?

~Jake, Summer, 09



Submit Your Sheet For Approval (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/sendmessage.php?do=mailmember&u=46222)

Q: What is the Test Of Spite?
A: It's an arena with a few special characteristics.
1) Rulings are based on the rules as written, with no significant leeway for interpretation.
2) An Arena Judge's ruling is final and absolute.
3) Within the arc of the rules, all tactics are valid.
4) A banlist will gradually be developed, that insures as many builds as possible are viable much in the same way that Old Man Sagat is often not played.

Q: How do I play in the Test of Spite?
A: Submit a character for approval, then seek out a contestant here. We'll try to get sheets turned around as fast as possible, but we may have to ask questions or resolve legality issues.

Q: What systems are supported?
A: Legend and Exalted right now, with hopefully 7th Sea or another being deployed shortly.

Q: Where can I find the Legend rules?
A: The link in my signature leads to the most current beta thread.

Q: Is there a Live Chat for answering urgent questions, or running fast live matches?
A: Yes, it's the second link in my signature. It's also an IRC underneath it all, and so you can just join #Legend on irc.gamesurge.net.

Q: Are you still a bitter man?
A: Ohhh yes.

On Legend (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204176):
Standard Item Load OR Full Buy-in
Iconics are allowed.
No Cohorts
Character Level 13th


True Mage (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1F_0UpdhtduJV-o0LHloq6dFsjJFXKa4tTUD-LDI31-M/edit?hl=en_US) and Consumables (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WHJLFNngyA6sfgGkNX3AdaUj8H_JdevqLP1Hh5I52cU/edit?hl=en_US&authkey=CLidr8oD) enter legality, but must be announced. Both characters must use consumables for a fight to be legal.

Dread Secret (Skill feat) is banned pending a rewrite.
Hold Monster is banned pending a rewrite.
Granite Spike is banned due to arena size constraints.

On Exalted:
Tavar is invested fully with the powers of a head ref. The current working set of rules, bans, and changes follows.

Exalted character Creation Rules:


Due to resources available, only Solars, Dragonblooded, Lunars, Sidereal, Abyssals, Gods, Elementals, and Ghosts are currently allowed in the game.
Characters gain free Ox-body Meditation charms(or equivalent charm) equal to their natural Essence. These don't count for the purpose of prerequisites, or limitations on how many times you can take it.
Solars and Abyssals gain 5 free Excelencies from their caste or favored abilites, max of one free per ability.
Lunars gain 2 free excelencies from their caste or Favored attributes.
Dragonblooded and Sidereals gain 4 free excelencies from their caste, aspect, favored, or auspicious abilities.
Sorcery initiation charms give the appropriate counter spell charm for free.
Articulated plate and Superheavy Plate artifact armors from the core book have their artifact rating reduced by 2.
Artifact armors from the core book have hearthstone sockets equal to [artifact rating-1], after adjustemts mentioned above.
Lunars use these chargen rules (http://wiki.white-wolf.com/exalted/index.php?title=Peter_Schaefer_on_Lunar_Character_ Generation)
Most current Errata is used, including character creation.
Inkmonkeys material is allowed.
Stunts currently give neither motes nor willpower.



Ban List


Lightspeed Body Dynamics
Distracting Finger Gesture, from Ebon Shadow Style.
Void Avatar Prana
Sidereal Martial Arts besides Saphire Veils of Passion
Charms that have been removed by errata, or pre-errata versions of charms. Make sure you know what your charms do!
Merits and Flaws as found in Scroll of Heroes.
Akuma
This list is subject to change.


Matches:

Legend
Nohwl vs. Bucky (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198993)
Master_Rahl22 vs. theterran (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10977301)
TheAmishPirate vs. theterran (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199620)
Bucky vs. Radar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200047)
Radar vs. Devmaar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11213933)
Nohwl vs. Radar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204109)

Exalted
knightMARE vs. Mr.Bookworm (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11001634)
Geigan vs. knightMARE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202261)
knightMARE vs. Mr.Bookworm again (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11267565)
Tavar vs. knightMARE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11282158)

IthilanorStPete
2011-05-05, 09:58 PM
Yay! :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

One thing that should probably be clarified in the OP - for Legend, are [Iconic]s allowed? I presume so, but it should be said.

Claudius Maximus
2011-05-05, 10:13 PM
Oh man I'm not even ready.

Can someone else take over sheet duty for Legend until I emerge, bloody and grizzled, from the depths of this final project? It shouldn't take more than a day or two, but I wouldn't want to set you guys back even that much.

term1nally s1ck
2011-05-06, 06:32 AM
In theory, yes. Send em over my way.

Doc Roc
2011-05-06, 11:51 AM
I'll cover too. Legend sheets are easier to check.

Master_Rahl22
2011-05-06, 04:50 PM
Which stat generation method is being used for Legends?

Doc Roc
2011-05-06, 05:26 PM
Which stat generation method is being used for Legends?

Let's go with Array for now, since it simplifies sheet checking.

Khyber
2011-05-06, 06:48 PM
Oh, I've not PvPed much ever, but I was a avid lurker of the old ToS games, and would be interested in trying my hand as a legend contender!

Hmm, we should have some team ToS matches as well, some of the classes really do lend themselves more to support and setting up others, is that an option?

grimbold
2011-05-06, 08:46 PM
this seems interesting
i will look into it

IthilanorStPete
2011-05-06, 08:52 PM
this seems interesting
i will look into it

But aren't you busy taking your company right, once we pass the wall?

Amphetryon
2011-05-06, 09:42 PM
Doc, you have my sheet for approval. I'd rather not face off against a Sage or Shaman first-off, if possible.

Claudius Maximus
2011-05-08, 01:28 AM
I have returned, and can handle sheets and such now.

Are we going to use the old email sheet depository or what?

Master_Rahl22
2011-05-08, 08:31 PM
In what format should we send in a Legends sheet? Just list all applicable stats or what?

Doc Roc
2011-05-08, 10:34 PM
In what format should we send in a Legends sheet? Just list all applicable stats or what?

For now that'll work!

Actually, yes, let's use the old sheet repo. It'll feel nice and retro.

Tavar
2011-05-08, 11:18 PM
For those interested, here are some Exalted sheets.
Reynard's Sheets:
Solar, Abyssal and Infernal SheetName:
Exalt Type and Caste:
Anima:

Motivation:

Urge [If Infernal]

Background:

Attributes
Primary (Physical/Social/Mental): 8
Secondary (Physical/Social/Mental): 6
Tertiary (Physical/Social/Mental): 4

Physical:
Strength ●
Dexterity ●
Stamina ●

Social:
Charisma ●
Manipulation ●
Appearance ●

Mental
Perception ●
Intelligence ●
Wits ●
Abilities (Specializations +)
[Note: Place [C]aste and [F]avoured tags, for clarity.]
Total without BP/XP: 28
(If using Dawn Solution rules, 4 free specialty dots, and Abilities can be raised to 5 without BP)

Archery
Martial Arts
Melee
Thrown
War

Integrity
Performance
Presence
Resistance
Survival

Craft
Investigate
Lore
Medicine
Occult

Athletics
Awareness
Dodge
Larceny
Stealth

Bureaucracy
Linguistics
Ride
Sail
Socialize
Backgrounds, Artifacts and Equipment:Backgrounds:

Artifacts and Equipment:
Artifact: X [What it is], fluff name
Important features.
[Source]

Manse: X
Stone: [Which Hearthstone] (Location, if socketed) [Source]
Creation Points: [(Value of Manse x2)+bonus from Manse Flaws]
> [List what the points are spent on]
Resources: X
Reason for value
> [List of purchases, and sources]
Charms
Ability/Yozi
Excellencies
[Charms]
Combos:

Combat Stats:
Join Combat:

Attacks:Hands:
Acc: X [(((Dex+Martial Arts)+1)+Any other dice bonuses)] | Damage: [Str+0B] | Parry DV: [(((Dex+Ability)+2)= X /2 round up) = Base + Modifiers] | Rate: 3

Feet:
Acc: X [(((Dex+Martial Arts)+0)+Any other dice bonuses)] | Damage: [Str+3B] | Parry DV: [(((Dex+Ability)-2)= X /2 round up) = Base + Modifiers] | Rate: 2

Clinch:
Acc: X [(((Dex+Martial Arts)+0)+Any other dice bonuses)] | Damage: [Str+0B] | Parry DV: - | Rate: 3
Dodge DV: X [((((Dex+Ability)+Essence)+Bonus Dice From Equipment) = X /2 round up) = Base + Modifiers]

Permanent Charms (Effects)

Soak:
Bashing: [((Stamina+Armour)+Any other Modifiers)]
Lethal: [(((Stamina /2)+Armour)+Any other Modifiers)]
Aggravated: [Armour+Any other Modifiers)]

Hardness:
Bashing: [Highest value from any source]
Lethal: [Highest value from any source]
Aggravated: [Highest value from any source]

Health:
-0 [ ]
-1 [ ][ ]
-2 [ ][ ]
-4 [ ]
X [ ]

Mental Defenses:
Dodge MDV: [((((Willpower+Integrity)+Relevant Specialty)+Essence)+Any other dice modifiers) /2 round down) + Any other bonuses.]
Charisma Parry MDV:
>Presence: [(((Charisma+Presence)+Relevant Specialty)+Any other dice modifiers) /2 round up) + Any other bonuses.]
>Performance: [(((Charisma+Performance)+Relevant Specialty)+Any other dice modifiers) /2 round up) + Any other bonuses.]
Manipulation Parry MDV:
>Presence: [(((Manipulation+Presence)+Relevant Specialty)+Any other dice modifiers) /2 round up) + Any other bonuses.]
>Performance: [(((Manipulation+Performance)+Relevant Specialty)+Any other dice modifiers) /2 round up) + Any other bonuses.]

Virtues:
Compassion ●
Conviction ●
Temperance ●
Valor ●

Virtue Flaw/Flawed Virtue:

Intimacies:

Languages:
??? (Native)

Willpower: ●●●●●

Essence:
Permanent: ●●
Personal: Current (Max) [(Permanent Essence x3)+Willpower]
Peripheral: Current (Max) (Value Attuned) [(Permanent Essence x7)+Willpower)+Sum of Virtues]
Bonus Points and XP:
Bonus Points:

Total: 15/15 (18/18 If using Dawn Solution rules.) | Flaws:

Experience Points. Spent: X | Left: Y | Total: Z
Lunar SheetName:
Caste:
Spirit Animal:
Anima:
Tell:

Motivation:

Background:

Attributes
Primary (Physical/Social/Mental): 8 [9 If using Peter Schaefer's rules]
Secondary (Physical/Social/Mental): 6 [7 If using Peter Schaefer's rules]
Tertiary (Physical/Social/Mental): 4 [5 If using Peter Schaefer's rules]
[Note: Place [C]aste and [F]avoured tags, for clarity. Casteless do not get Caste abilities, obviously]
(Specializations +)

Physical:
Strength ●
Dexterity ●
Stamina ●

Social:
Charisma ●
Manipulation ●
Appearance ●

Mental
Perception ●
Intelligence ●
Wits ●
Abilities (Specializations +)
[Note: Place [F]avoured tags, for clarity.]
Total without BP/XP: 25 [28 If using Peter Schaefer's rules]
(If using Dawn Solution rules, 4 free specialty dots)

Archery
Martial Arts
Melee
Thrown
War

Integrity
Performance
Presence
Resistance
[F]Survival

Craft
Investigate
Lore
Medicine
Occult

Athletics
Awareness
Dodge
Larceny
Stealth

Bureaucracy
Linguistics
Ride
Sail
Socialize
Backgrounds, Artifacts and Equipment:Backgrounds:

Artifacts and Equipment:
Artifact: X [What it is], fluff name
Important features.
[Source]

Manse: X
Stone: [Which Hearthstone] (Location, if socketed) [Source]
Creation Points: [(Value of Manse x2)+bonus from Manse Flaws]
> [List what the points are spent on]
Resources: X
Reason for value
> [List of purchases, and sources]
Charms and Knacks
Attribute
Excellencies
[Charms]

Knacks:
Combos:

Combat Stats:
Join Combat:

Attacks:Hands:
Acc: X [(((Dex+Martial Arts)+1)+Any other dice bonuses)] | Damage: [Str+0B] | Parry DV: [(((Dex+Ability)+2)= X /2 round up) = Base + Modifiers] | Rate: 3

Feet:
Acc: X [(((Dex+Martial Arts)+0)+Any other dice bonuses)] | Damage: [Str+3B] | Parry DV: [(((Dex+Ability)-2)= X /2 round up) = Base + Modifiers] | Rate: 2

Clinch:
Acc: X [(((Dex+Martial Arts)+0)+Any other dice bonuses)] | Damage: [Str+0B] | Parry DV: - | Rate: 3
Dodge DV: X [((((Dex+Ability)+Essence)+Bonus Dice From Equipment) = X /2 round up) = Base + Modifiers]

Permanent Charms (Effects)

Soak:
Bashing: [((Stamina+Armour)+Any other Modifiers)]
Lethal: [(((Stamina /2)+Armour)+Any other Modifiers)]
Aggravated: [Armour+Any other Modifiers)]

Hardness:
Bashing: [Highest value from any source]
Lethal: [Highest value from any source]
Aggravated: [Highest value from any source]

Health:
-0 [ ]
-1 [ ][ ]
-2 [ ][ ]
-4 [ ]
X [ ]

Mental Defenses:
Dodge MDV: [((((Willpower+Integrity)+Relevant Specialty)+Essence)+Any other dice modifiers) /2 round up) + Any other bonuses.]
Charisma Parry MDV:
>Presence: [(((Charisma+Presence)+Relevant Specialty)+Any other dice modifiers) /2 round up) + Any other bonuses.]
>Performance: [(((Charisma+Performance)+Relevant Specialty)+Any other dice modifiers) /2 round up) + Any other bonuses.]
Manipulation Parry MDV:
>Presence: [(((Manipulation+Presence)+Relevant Specialty)+Any other dice modifiers) /2 round up) + Any other bonuses.]
>Performance: [(((Manipulation+Performance)+Relevant Specialty)+Any other dice modifiers) /2 round up) + Any other bonuses.]

Virtues:
Compassion ●
Conviction ●
Temperance ●
Valor ●

Virtue Flaw/Flawed Virtue:

Intimacies:

Languages:
??? (Native)

Willpower: ●●●●●

Essence:
Permanent: ●●
Personal: Current (Max) (Value Attuned) [Permanent Essence+(Willpower x2)]
Peripheral: Current (Max) (Value Attuned) [(((Permanent Essence x4)+Willpower x2)+Highest Virtue x4]
Bonus Points and XP:
Bonus Points:

Total: 15/15 (18/18 If using Dawn Solution rules.) | Flaws:

Experience Points. Spent: X | Left: Y | Total: Z
Sidereal SheetName:
Exalt Type and Caste:
Anima:
Anima Power:

Motivation:

Faction:

Background:

Attributes
Primary (Physical/Social/Mental): 8
Secondary (Physical/Social/Mental): 6
Tertiary (Physical/Social/Mental): 4

Physical:
Strength ●
Dexterity ●
Stamina ●

Social:
Charisma ●
Manipulation ●
Appearance ●

Mental
Perception ●
Intelligence ●
Wits ●
Abilities (Specializations +)
[Note: Place [A]uspicious and [F]avoured (You get four) tags, for clarity.]
Total without BP/XP: 35, with at least 15 in Auspicious and Favoured.
(If using Dawn Solution rules, 4 free specialty dots)
Caste Requirements:
The character must have at least Awareness , Bureaucracy , Linguistics (Old Realm) , Lore , Martial Arts , Occult , Socialize , Stealth and at least one dot in Archery, Melee or Thrown. There are additional restrictions based on caste:

Chosen of Journeys must have Athletics , Linguistics (Old Realm and an appropriate additional language) , Resistance , Survival and Ride or Sail .

Chosen of Serenity must have either Craft or Performance , Linguistics (focusing on eloquent speaking and writing rather than languages), Medicine , Presence and Socialize .

Chosen of Battles must have Archery or Melee , Athletics , Dodge , Presence and War .

Chosen of Secrets must have Awareness , Investigation , Larceny , Socialize and Stealth .

Chosen of Endings must have Awareness , Dodge , Integrity , Martial Arts and Stealth .
Journeys
Resistance:
Ride:
Sail:
Survival:
Thrown:

Serenity
Craft:
Dodge:
Linguistics:
Performance:
Socialize:

Battles
Archery:
Athletics:
Melee:
Presence:
War:

Secrets
Investigation:
Larceny:
Lore:
Occult:
Stealth:

Endings
Awareness:
Bureaucracy:
Integrity:
Martial Arts:
Medicine:
Backgrounds, Artifacts and Equipment:
Backgrounds:

Artifacts and Equipment:
Artifact: X [What it is], fluff name
Important features.
[Source]

Manse: X
Stone: [Which Hearthstone] (Location, if socketed) [Source]
Creation Points: [(Value of Manse x2)+bonus from Manse Flaws]
> [List what the points are spent on]

Resources: X
Reason for value
> [List of purchases, and sources]
Charms
Ability
Excellencies
[Charms]
Combos:

Combat Stats:
Join Combat: 9 +1 Sux

Attacks:Hands:
Acc: X [(((Dex+Martial Arts)+1)+Any other dice bonuses)] | Damage: [Str+0B] | Parry DV: [(((Dex+Ability)+2)= X /2 round up) = Base + Modifiers] | Rate: 3

Feet:
Acc: X [(((Dex+Martial Arts)+0)+Any other dice bonuses)] | Damage: [Str+3B] | Parry DV: [(((Dex+Ability)-2)= X /2 round up) = Base + Modifiers] | Rate: 2

Clinch:
Acc: X [(((Dex+Martial Arts)+0)+Any other dice bonuses)] | Damage: [Str+0B] | Parry DV: - | Rate: 3

Dodge DV: X [((((Dex+Ability)+Essence)+Bonus Dice From Equipment) = X /2 round up) = Base + Modifiers]

Permanent Charms (Effects)

Soak:
Bashing: [((Stamina+Armour)+Any other Modifiers)]
Lethal: [(((Stamina /2)+Armour)+Any other Modifiers)]
Aggravated: [Armour+Any other Modifiers)]

Hardness:
Bashing: [Highest value from any source]
Lethal: [Highest value from any source]
Aggravated: [Highest value from any source]

Health:
-0 [ ]
-1 [ ][ ]
-2 [ ][ ]
-4 [ ]
X [ ]

Mental Defenses:
Dodge MDV: [((((Willpower+Integrity)+Relevant Specialty)+Essence)+Any other dice modifiers) /2 round up) + Any other bonuses.]
Charisma Parry MDV:
>Presence: [(((Charisma+Presence)+Relevant Specialty)+Any other dice modifiers) /2 round down) + Any other bonuses.]
>Performance: [(((Charisma+Performance)+Relevant Specialty)+Any other dice modifiers) /2 round down) + Any other bonuses.]
Manipulation Parry MDV:
>Presence: [(((Manipulation+Presence)+Relevant Specialty)+Any other dice modifiers) /2 round down) + Any other bonuses.]
>Performance: [(((Manipulation+Performance)+Relevant Specialty)+Any other dice modifiers) /2 round down) + Any other bonuses.]

Virtues:
Compassion ●
Conviction ●
Temperance ●
Valor ●

Virtue Flaw/Flawed Virtue:

Intimacies:

Languages:
??? (Native)

Willpower: ●●●●●

Essence:
Permanent: ●●
Personal: Current (Max) (Value Attuned) [(Permanent Essence x2)+(Willpower)]
Peripheral: Current (Max) (Value Attuned) [(((Permanent Essence x6)+Willpower 2)+Sum of all Virtues]
Bonus Points and XP:
Bonus Points:

Total: 15/15 (18/18 If using Dawn Solution rules.) | Flaws:

[B]Experience Points. Spent: X | Left: Y | Total: Z

Claudius Maximus
2011-05-09, 12:31 AM
Doc, you should probably add the submission link to the OP. Here it is for now though:


Submit Your Sheet For Approval (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/sendmessage.php?do=mailmember&u=46222)

Presumably people should note the system of the sheet, though I guess it will probably be pretty clear at a glance.

Draz74
2011-05-09, 07:11 PM
What if I'm game to stat up some Legend characters, but don't want to spend time on actually playing them as they fight their battles? :smalltongue:

The Rose Dragon
2011-05-10, 08:44 AM
Tavar, I hope that your sanity is not irrevocably eroded through this trying experience to come.

Tavar
2011-05-10, 12:07 PM
Eh, sanity is for the weak. Plus, so far, no one's submitted any Exalted sheets.

Mr.Bookworm
2011-05-10, 12:32 PM
I was going to submit a sheet I made for another game, but then I realized he had 10 points of Flaws.

So, questions/comments for Exalted (not familiar with Legend yet).

1) Just to be perfectly clear, this is standard character creation, 0 XP, right?

2) How are we going to organized fights? By tier (Solar>Celestial, etc.), or just whoever versus whoever you want to take a crack at?

3) Martial arts: Put Even Blade (stupid good), Dreaming Pearl Courtesan (flat-out broken), and Violet Bier of Sorrows (broken) on the ban list. There are probably others, but those two are the main non-SMA offenders from the SotM. If you want to put VBoS in the game, I would suggest looking up Jon Chung's rewrite.

4) Are we going to do "level" tiers eventually, for different power levels? If we do, I'd suggest using the character creation rules in DotFA (post-errata). Also neatly seperates it into levels.

Radar
2011-05-10, 03:20 PM
For now that'll work!

Actually, yes, let's use the old sheet repo. It'll feel nice and retro.
If I may: is there any example of the sheet format to be seen? I didn't participate in previous ToS battles or similar activities, so obvious things might be not so for me. :smallsmile:

Also: is there any tutorial, FAQ, list of guidelines about participating in a PvP match. I'm mostly puzzled about the balance between describing your actions and keeping secret, what my rival wouldn't know.
For example: I'm prancing around being invisible and doing stuff, that the other character can't see (my Stealth was better then his Perception) - how should I write down my actions and not give the other player informations, he shouldn't have?

It would be nice to have such helpfull information about organisational stuff for newbies laid out, so that the actual matches would run without problems.

Tavar
2011-05-10, 03:21 PM
Yep, excepting that they are made with the errata'd character generation rules.

Anyone vs anyone, though I'll probably give some basic tiers later on, though it's a bit more complicated. After all, while a Dragon-blooded is lesser than a Celestial, a 600 xp Dragon-blooded would likely be able to wipe the floor with a fresh out of character generation Solar.

For those martial arts, care to explain what's so broken about them?

Master_Rahl22
2011-05-10, 03:40 PM
Radar, I refer you to The Arena (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186005). It's a somewhat similar setup to ToS but at level 1. You can view the Archives and look over some matches to see what people do. Basically, you use to hide things that aren't obvious to your opponent. If you're casting a spell, you might put the DC of the Arcana check needed to identify it in front of the spoiler, and if your opponent tries and succeeds they open it. It depends on the honor system of course, but the alternative would be something like sending your actions to the GM who then PMs a separate map to each player based on what they see.

Claudius Maximus
2011-05-10, 04:06 PM
I'll be watching all Legend matches as a ref to try to adjudicate things like that. I can do LoS checks and such too.

Mr.Bookworm
2011-05-10, 06:29 PM
For those martial arts, care to explain what's so broken about them?

Violet Bier of Sorrows is pretty much a straight copy and paste from 1E, like a lot of the stuff in the Sidereal book. I can give you a more detailed list if you want.

Dreaming Pearl Courtesan, banning the pinnacle might be enough, since it's the really bad one (you turn into a gazellecarp, which gives you extra actions, this is a real thing).

Even Blade is, at least, mechanically the best TMA in the game, and is more on par with a low-tier CMA. At the absolute least, ban Gruesome Wood-King Revelry (Step 10 mote regainer).

Tavar
2011-05-10, 08:22 PM
Please do go into detail for all, it's always helpful.

But, yeah, Dreaming Pearl Courtesan is a scene length extra action charm. Way too good. As for Even Blade...not sure. I'll look into it. For now, Gruesome Wood-King Revelry is step 1, and must be activated on each strike.

nolispe
2011-05-10, 09:00 PM
So, would anyone like a combat as a celestial, then? I'd quite like to put together a character, if you'd like to as well.

Radar
2011-05-11, 04:40 AM
Radar, I refer you to The Arena (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186005). It's a somewhat similar setup to ToS but at level 1. You can view the Archives and look over some matches to see what people do. Basically, you use to hide things that aren't obvious to your opponent. If you're casting a spell, you might put the DC of the Arcana check needed to identify it in front of the spoiler, and if your opponent tries and succeeds they open it. It depends on the honor system of course, but the alternative would be something like sending your actions to the GM who then PMs a separate map to each player based on what they see.
Thank you. This is, what I was looking for. No I'm off to brew a character... :smallbiggrin:
For a charm of powerful trouble, Like a hell-broth boil and bubble.

theterran
2011-05-11, 08:29 AM
So glad to see this back! and don't worry Doc, I'll barrage you with questions as I create my character :smallwink:

Master_Rahl22
2011-05-11, 12:23 PM
Can we get that email submission link moved to the OP?

I submitted my fixed sheet, so assuming I didn't break anything with the fixes I have a Legend character ready to go. Anybody else ready?

theterran
2011-05-11, 01:17 PM
Woohoo!

Just submitted my first Legend character!

Now we'll see how much I messed it up! :smallsmile:

Tyndmyr
2011-05-11, 01:28 PM
I'd like to offer my services as a 7th Sea GM. I know the system quite well indeed. Given that the result on google for "7th Sea Optimization" return quite disappointing results indeed, it is actually possible that I know the system better than anyone on the internet.

And, of course, I've got all the books.

Claudius Maximus
2011-05-11, 02:03 PM
Maybe this could be a good exhibition of the system and its strengths. You might get more people into it through this little project. Which would be neat since it's apparently a solid game from what I hear.

theterran
2011-05-11, 02:11 PM
I'm unfamiliar w/ it altogether...:smallconfused:

does it have a source doc online somewheres?

Tyndmyr
2011-05-11, 02:31 PM
I'm unfamiliar w/ it altogether...:smallconfused:

does it have a source doc online somewheres?

Drive through RPG offers a free download of the compendium, which fills that role rather nicely.

At a low-optimization level, balance is generally pretty good. There is one specific advantage I'd want to ban, though. It's hard to explain why without getting deep into the system, but it is ridiculously powerful.

Master_Rahl22
2011-05-11, 03:25 PM
theterran, let me know when your sheet is approved and we'll duke it out.

SurlySeraph
2011-05-11, 04:03 PM
Curse you, I just finished writing up one character using Dreaming Pearl Courtesan and one using VBoS and was trying to decide which to submit. Oh, and for reference, Jon Chung's VBoS rewrite (http://www.thefreedomstone.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7532).

The main issue with official VBoS is Blade of the Battle Maiden. Even post-errata, it's like a better version of Infinite Mastery that doesn't require a charm activation. And it's sadly even better for Solaroids than for Sidereals, because Sidereals have trouble affording the initial investment with their low mote pools.
Also, the Form raises your minimum damage to your Martial Arts, so VBoS + flurries (even non-magical flurries, because with Blade of the Battle Maiden you are probably going to hit despite extra action penalties) pretty much mandates perfect-or-die. This is extra nice if you've taken a Fire Dragon Style charm, which gives you a signature weapon benefit that gives you much lower multiple action penalties when you flurry with short swords.
Joy in Adversity Stance is also really nice, particularly if you read the "must be in real danger" part to mean that you get motes from it even if you're using perfects, which is a stupid interpretation of it.

One more thing on martial arts that I think I forgot to mention before. Laughing Wounds Style has a Charm that makes you immune to bashing damage. An Adamant Skin Gem converts all lethal damage into bashing. Using agg damage or non-damage means to beat someone who uses that combination this is possible, but difficult - especially if they aren't a Creature of Darkness and therefore harder to do agg damage to.

Toofey
2011-05-11, 04:21 PM
YOU DON'T KNOW ME!!

*runs off, slamming door to room.

Claudius Maximus
2011-05-11, 04:39 PM
There goes my detailed reply.

Doc Roc
2011-05-11, 04:41 PM
YOU DON'T KNOW ME!!

*runs off, slamming door to room.

Oh but we do. We have files, and charts, and many such things. You can run, but the hounds will find you. You can hide, but the test will call to you. You can fight, though, and in fighting there is hope.

JOIN US! Join us or be torn down!

Toofey
2011-05-11, 04:48 PM
I just had found what I'd asked, do you actually trust me to roll my stats or should we do it in a chat somewhere?

Master_Rahl22
2011-05-11, 04:53 PM
If you're referring to Legend, it was decided to use the standard array it mentions of 16, 14, 14, 12, 10, 8.

Doc Roc
2011-05-11, 04:59 PM
I just had found what I'd asked, do you actually trust me to roll my stats or should we do it in a chat somewhere?

I trust you to use an array! :)

Toofey
2011-05-11, 05:02 PM
I trust you to use an array! :)

Their sample array, or can I use the 28 point thing (I was reading it out of order, I've gone back)

Also am I going to need anything that's not in that link that there's a link to?

This is much better than I expected, Hey, it's D&D.

Claudius Maximus
2011-05-11, 05:10 PM
Legend is not D&D.

Here (https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B4dLcxsM7Nx0MTBiZjMwYTUtZjkwZC00ODQ5LWE2ZTA tYzIzZGEzNDQ5M2I0&hl=en&authkey=CJP0npMJ) is the latest document. I think there's supposed to be a new one today, or at least very soon, so this one might be invalidated pretty quickly. The vast majority of information will cross over just fine though, so you won't be wasting your time with this one.

Mr.Bookworm
2011-05-11, 06:12 PM
Props re:Seraph, for explaining VBoS for me.

Quick question: How fluffily detailed do our sheets need to be? If I send in a Slayer Infernal Monster, can I just fill his Motivation/Urge with HULK SMASH and leave it as be? I get the impression mechanics are the important thing, but I figured I might as well ask.

EDIT: Other quick question: If I take a Sorcery-Capturing Cord, can I start the match with a spell stored?

Tavar
2011-05-11, 08:27 PM
For Dreaming Pearl Courtesan, let's just reduce the cost of the pinnacle to 5 motes, 1 wp, and remove the extra action part.

As fluffy as you like, but yeah, bare bones stuff like your example is sufficient.

For spell capturing cord...yes, but if you cannot cast the spell, then you have to have an ally of rating 1+spell's circle.

For Laughing wounds style... you're talking about Insatiable Slave Stamina? Hmm. Again, I'll have to think about this.

Claudius Maximus
2011-05-11, 08:35 PM
For Legend, what are our rules for the encounters? Ranges? Environments? What about buffs? Can we have scene length or longer effects up, for example? If one character is a vampire, is it fair to declare it's daytime?

I think we may have to answer similar questions for the other systems.

Mr.Bookworm
2011-05-11, 08:47 PM
Thanks for answering all of these questions, Tavar. Wouldn't want to have your job. :smalltongue:

Going to echo Claudius, but for Exalted. What sort of environments are these fights going to take place in? This is particularly important for, say, a straight-Malfean Slayer, whose PD doesn't work outside of a certain area.

Also, speaking of Infernals, the "no mote reward for stunts" thing kind of screws people who take the SWLIHN PD, which is balanced with the ability to stunt in mind.

Also the second, do we need an appropriate level of Resources for mundane equipment? Or can we just start with whatever?

Tavar
2011-05-11, 10:05 PM
Standard rules for resources(begin game with anything equal or lesser resource cost, only [resource rating] items of special quality).

For stunts, thinking of giving everyone a certain number of stunts to give out. Like, 1 3 dice, 5 2 dice, and 20 1 die. Or just doing standard, core book stunts(well, slightly adjusted to account for the fact it's really, really easy to get 2 die stunts in a pbp that way).

Radar
2011-05-12, 07:09 AM
Legend character submitted and waiting for approval. :smallbiggrin:

theterran
2011-05-12, 10:43 AM
Alright, my Legend character is "official"...I need an opponent! :smallsmile:

Master_Rahl22
2011-05-12, 12:16 PM
Alright, my Legend character is "official"...I need an opponent! :smallsmile:

Ooo, ooo, pick me, pick me!!

Do we need a ref and a map and all of that? Should one of us start the thread?

theterran
2011-05-12, 12:21 PM
I'm not sure how any of that works...:smallconfused:

Mr.Bookworm
2011-05-12, 12:55 PM
Two last questions I swear, and I'll submit a character this afternoon.

1) If you're using a ranged weapon or other device requiring ammunition (within reasonable limits, obviously), can you just assume that you have a sufficient amount of ammunition to last the match on hand in your quiver/bandolier/whatever?

2) You missed the question about terrain and arenas.

3) Soulbreaker orbs are a totally valid choice of weapon, right?

Claudius Maximus
2011-05-12, 02:09 PM
Test of Spite: Bucky vs. Nohwl (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198993)

Test of Spite: Master_Rahl22 vs. theterran (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10977301)

Doc Roc
2011-05-12, 09:30 PM
Test of Spite: Bucky vs. Nohwl (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198993)

Test of Spite: Master_Rahl22 vs. theterran (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10977301)

The battle is joined!
Welcome, formally, to the Test of Spite.

Mr.Bookworm
2011-05-12, 10:03 PM
*facepalm*

I just emailed my character submission in, and I realized that I actually didn't save another copy of the sheet. Would you mind PMing me my own sheet?

...now given that I am apparently the only Exalted player in this, it should be an easy match-up, but who knows what could happen?

Tavar
2011-05-12, 11:52 PM
Two last questions I swear, and I'll submit a character this afternoon.

1) If you're using a ranged weapon or other device requiring ammunition (within reasonable limits, obviously), can you just assume that you have a sufficient amount of ammunition to last the match on hand in your quiver/bandolier/whatever?

2) You missed the question about terrain and arenas.

3) Soulbreaker orbs are a totally valid choice of weapon, right?
That's 3 questions, but the last...no. Just no.

Arrows, and also thrown ammunition, are purchasable with the Resource background. Have a high enough rating, and you can have as many of that type of weapon that you like. Amounts should be specified.

Thinking about arena size/terrain. At the moment, I'm thinking it'll be some sort of mix, with plenty of dividing features and the like.


*facepalm*

I just emailed my character submission in, and I realized that I actually didn't save another copy of the sheet. Would you mind PMing me my own sheet?

Could you just check the 'sent' box? I don't believe I have it yet, so I can't help you at the moment.

TheAmishPirate
2011-05-13, 12:46 PM
Just submitted my Legend character, waiting for approval.

Tavar
2011-05-14, 01:25 AM
So, we have one accepted Exalted character. Any other takers?

knightMARE
2011-05-16, 12:39 AM
I'll try, but likely lose horribly.

Tavar, PMing sheet now

Tavar
2011-05-16, 01:08 AM
Well, that's 2 Exalted characters submitted and accepted. I'll be making the battle thread soonish.

theterran
2011-05-16, 09:32 AM
Huh...Just noticed that the [Bleeding] Condition isn't actually mentioned anywhere in the pdf...:smallconfused:

Tavar
2011-05-16, 11:13 AM
Test of Spite: knightMARE vs Mr.Bookworm, you are go! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11001634#post11001634)

Bucky
2011-05-16, 12:00 PM
Rules question: Can characters with the "Summon Mote" feat use it to pay for Charms after it has lost health?

theterran
2011-05-16, 01:01 PM
Are we allowed to submit more than one character for the ToS? :smallconfused:

Tavar
2011-05-16, 01:36 PM
I believe so, yes.

Bucky
2011-05-16, 02:26 PM
I believe so, yes.

Awesome! Thanks.

Doc Roc
2011-05-16, 02:35 PM
Are we allowed to submit more than one character for the ToS? :smallconfused:

Absolutely!

theterran
2011-05-16, 07:25 PM
Sweet...then Legend's character #2 submitted!

Claudius Maximus
2011-05-16, 09:26 PM
It looks like we have at least two approved Legend sheets right now, but nobody is coordinating a battle. How do we feel about a system like the old ToS matchmaking spreadsheet?

I think this one might do better because the sheets are actually getting approved in a timely fashion. :smallredface:

Doc Roc
2011-05-17, 08:00 AM
It looks like we have at least two approved Legend sheets right now, but nobody is coordinating a battle. How do we feel about a system like the old ToS matchmaking spreadsheet?

I think this one might do better because the sheets are actually getting approved in a timely fashion. :smallredface:

I'll first post it. I'm sorry I didn't roll this thing with the ToS account, I wasn't thinking.

TroubleBrewing
2011-05-17, 08:09 AM
Is anybody GMing 7th Sea? I could have a workable character by the weekend, I think.

theterran
2011-05-17, 03:35 PM
Alright, i've got another character approved and am Looking for another match! :smallsmile:

TheAmishPirate
2011-05-17, 05:05 PM
Ooh! Ooh! Pick me! I am ready to get to the fightings.

Claudius Maximus
2011-05-17, 05:27 PM
Test of Spite: TheAmishPirate vs. theterran (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199620)

Master_Rahl22
2011-05-18, 04:39 PM
Well, I won my first ToS match due to a crit that did 124 damage. I understand that the new rule for crits simplifies things greatly, but I just want to confirm that crits like that don't break any kind of assumptions you guys made. As Claudius noted in our thread, Wall of Thorns, Fear Mote, and [Ethereal] need to be hashed out.

I was disappointed in the Tremorsense granted by The Earth Cracks. With standard melee range at our level being 15ft, and relatively easy to get 25ft, it was rough to actually make use of the Tremorsense to defeat stealth/invisibility. Perception checks ended up being more useful.

theterran
2011-05-18, 09:36 PM
Having a better understanding of my character now, I think I'm going to try and rehash him, and fix some of the glaring holes he obviously has at the moment...:smallconfused:

Regardless...124 damage on a crit is nasty...and that was a well fought match, I was very impressed on how you escaped the wall of thorns!

Master_Rahl22
2011-05-18, 11:08 PM
Oh, and I trust that there are spellcasters that provoke AoOs when casting, and that there are spells that grant a Will save that are [Mind Affecting]. I was sad when I never once got to whack theterran for casting in melee range, and I suffered all manner of Will save effects that I wasn't immune to as a Barbarian.

His character obviously had at least 2 tracks from Sage, so (Su) don't provoke AoOs?

Claudius Maximus
2011-05-18, 11:42 PM
(Su) does not tend to provoke, no.

It might be worth looking into whether [fear] effects should be [mind-affecting]. Or if they are separate, whether barbarians should be immune to fear as well.

The unavoidability of Black Tidings damage was, I believe, intentional. Of course in such a situation damage rate must be closely monitored though. Note that you were doing at least as much damage with each individual attack. The different circumstances of these attacks might merit further consideration when attempting to balance the two.

Doc Roc
2011-05-19, 12:17 AM
The outbound damage from the crit is a bit worrisome. I'm going to have to play with the numbers a good bit there.

The ethereal thing was a temporary rule, I'm sorry it wasn't all we'd hoped.

Black Tidings is supposed to be hard to dodge, but maybe not that hard!

theterran
2011-05-19, 05:52 AM
Note that Black Tidings in Hammerfall form allows for a save for half, but in Dread Wave form it does not. However, in Hammerfall form it also does d6 instead of d4 and has a longer range.

knightMARE
2011-05-19, 07:59 AM
For the Exalted crowd, would anyone be interested in a higher-than-starting XP match? If there has been a decision on how to do such fights

Tavar
2011-05-19, 07:13 PM
Hmm...I'm going to open up the "Established X" creation guidelines from dreams of the first age. For those who want to, of course.

Master_Rahl22
2011-05-19, 09:11 PM
Oh, and the other unclear rule from my match was max HP reduction. Does your current HP go back up when your max does?

Just so you know about the crit, it was a Barbarian with 36 Strength when raging, Winged Armor that was overloaded, and a Coldfire Ingot, attacking with the Winged Armor spiked gauntlets. The ingot and bonus damage from overload were 56 of that damage in the crit.

knightMARE
2011-05-19, 09:54 PM
I'll start work on an Established X sheet then

knightMARE
2011-05-20, 12:10 AM
Tavar: For Established X, I have a few questions

- Do we introduce the errata rules where it makes sense. In particular, Established starts with 15 BP, do we use that or 18?

- Since base Lunar Attributes is 8/6/4, the revised char. generation rules is 9/7/5, and the Established Lunar is 10/8/7 + 3, will the established go up any due to more starting dots?

Mr.Bookworm
2011-05-20, 07:25 AM
Tavar: For Established X, I have a few questions

- Do we introduce the errata rules where it makes sense. In particular, Established starts with 15 BP, do we use that or 18?

I can answer this one. Check the errata. The character generation rules are revised quite a bit so they're more modular.

Also, I'd be willing to do another match, but I don't know if you want to/

knightMARE
2011-05-20, 08:35 AM
I'll fight another match. With Established X or?

Mr.Bookworm
2011-05-20, 08:36 AM
Established X sounds good to me.

Bucky
2011-05-20, 01:42 PM
Looking for a match (Legend side).

Radar
2011-05-20, 03:19 PM
Looking for a match (Legend side).
Bring it! I finally got my character approved and I'm eager to see some action. :smallamused:

Claudius Maximus
2011-05-20, 03:59 PM
Sorry for the delay! :smallfrown:

As far as I can tell all Legend sheets have been handled - they are either approved, or I am waiting on the player to respond on some point. If you are waiting on me, either you are mistaken, or there has been a serious oversight with the way I have this organized, since my list has them all marked as handled. Please contact me if you believe it is the latter.

Bucky
2011-05-20, 05:31 PM
Bring it! I finally got my character approved and I'm eager to see some action. :smallamused:

Is Columns II with a 30' ceiling okay?

Radar
2011-05-21, 01:59 AM
Sorry for the delay! :smallfrown:

As far as I can tell all Legend sheets have been handled - they are either approved, or I am waiting on the player to respond on some point. If you are waiting on me, either you are mistaken, or there has been a serious oversight with the way I have this organized, since my list has them all marked as handled. Please contact me if you believe it is the latter.
If you were worried about my sheet, then it's unnecessary. I appreciate the time you spent answering my questions. :smallsmile:

Is Columns II with a 30' ceiling okay?
It's okay with me.

Lostintransit
2011-05-21, 06:02 AM
I'd like to offer my services as a 7th Sea GM. I know the system quite well indeed. Given that the result on google for "7th Sea Optimization" return quite disappointing results indeed, it is actually possible that I know the system better than anyone on the internet.

And, of course, I've got all the books.

Well I'm up for playing in a 7th Sea ToS, but I'm not sure how you would want to do certain things, as the magic can be a bit OTT sometimes, and in a straight up duel certain schools/combos are better. Oh and what about vitures/flaws? as this isn't a 'regular' game a flaw is more or less a given, granting extra hero points!

I also have a large chunk of the books (missing a few nations and a few minor source) but i have a friend who has all the books for reference as needed.

EDIT: also it would give me a chance to test out a few combos that i didn't get to use during our last game! :smallbiggrin:

Bucky
2011-05-21, 12:04 PM
It's okay with me.

Battle thread: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200047

Tavar
2011-05-27, 08:50 PM
Well then. First Exalted Battle over, with knightMARE victorious over Bookworm.

Claudius Maximus
2011-05-27, 10:51 PM
Just a note: unless you're up to something secretive where doing so could compromise your trick, it is generally preferred to ask questions about rules and legality and such here in this thread, so others can benefit from the public ruling.

Tavar
2011-05-29, 10:35 PM
Also, note. PMing sheets to me is, currently, better than using the ToS email. I only check the former occasionally, and my PM box is right at the top of the page. Currently reviewing a couple elder exalts.

Claudius Maximus
2011-05-29, 11:15 PM
On the other hand I am running out of PM space, and since there is more than one person who can check Legend sheets, it is best to use the ToS email for those. (It also serves as a fine record of what people are interested in, so it's nice to have it in one place).

Geigan
2011-05-30, 12:54 AM
For Lunar Exalted, does the difference between castes still apply? Do casteless get an extra favored ability and casted get an extra ability dot?

Tavar
2011-05-30, 01:24 AM
Not sure what you mean regarding the first question. As for the second...casteless do have the extra favored ability, but tattoo'd do not gain the extra dot.

Geigan
2011-05-30, 01:34 AM
Not sure what you mean regarding the first question. As for the second...casteless do have the extra favored ability, but tattoo'd do not gain the extra dot.

Those were the differences, thank you for the answers.

Also, my bad I should have said attribute not ability.

Radar
2011-06-02, 03:26 PM
Hmm... things slowed down a bit here. At any rate, if anyone seeks a Legend match, I'm willing to enter the ring. Just say a word.

Master_Rahl22
2011-06-02, 04:50 PM
I have another character I've been meaning to finish and submit. Once it's approved I'll fight you Radar.

Your Nemesis
2011-06-02, 07:11 PM
LEGEND question: does teleportation count as movement for the purposes of preventing 5-foot steps? And does the Swashbuckler have to make a melee attack and then move to trigger once more, or can it be ranged?

imperialspectre
2011-06-03, 12:52 PM
You can't teleport and then 5-foot.

You can make a ranged attack and then move to trigger Once More!

Radar
2011-06-03, 01:44 PM
I have another character I've been meaning to finish and submit. Once it's approved I'll fight you Radar.
Cool! :smallsmile:

knightMARE
2011-06-06, 09:38 AM
Anyone interested in an Exalted match?

Geigan
2011-06-06, 11:10 AM
Anyone interested in an Exalted match?

Just submitted a sheet for the standard rules. As soon as its approved I'll be up for a match.

Tavar
2011-06-06, 12:16 PM
And it's accepted.

Bookworm and knightmare, I'm looking over your Established Sheets at the moment.

Also, for everyone, for charms purchased or given multiple times, can you please list how many of the charm you have. And for ones that can give different effects, can you please give a breakdown of what exactly it's giving you?

Oh, and to be clear, the Lunar alternate character generation overrides other methods when appropriate. That means you don't get the extra dots for favored/caste attributes.

Devmaar
2011-06-06, 04:40 PM
Legend character submitted

Claudius Maximus
2011-06-06, 04:55 PM
We are now operating under these rules (https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B8lf_LtvhqMlN2ViOWRlZWUtODc1NC00ZTJmLWFjZjg tMzMwMzIxYTNkNmRm&hl=en_US).

I know this might be kind of crappy to drop on you like this when you just submitted a character, but I only recently got permission to institute the changes.

Doc Roc
2011-06-06, 05:15 PM
We are now operating under these rules (https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B8lf_LtvhqMlN2ViOWRlZWUtODc1NC00ZTJmLWFjZjg tMzMwMzIxYTNkNmRm&hl=en_US).

I know this might be kind of crappy to drop on you like this when you just submitted a character, but I only recently got permission to institute the changes.

Most characters are unlikely to be invalidated, though somethings may need recalculation. One goal here was to open up some additional build-space, so that a few more characters were viable. We've been working under the assumption that you might like to actually play the game, after all. :)

Devmaar
2011-06-06, 05:18 PM
If that's this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11150634#post11150634) one then that's what I used :smallsmile:

Claudius Maximus
2011-06-06, 05:29 PM
Oh okay.

I'll get that checked sometime in the next 1-60 days or so.

TheAmishPirate
2011-06-06, 06:12 PM
Alright, my match just finished for Legend, and I'd be up for another one with the same character. There are still a few aspects of the build I'd like to try specifically against another fighter (not the class) and not a spellcaster, if that's possible.

EDIT: Alright, my build was a great success in that the latest revision of the rules pretty much decimated all the tricks I had. I'm going to give it another look-through, see what I can salvage and re-submit.

knightMARE
2011-06-06, 07:18 PM
Just submitted a sheet for the standard rules. As soon as its approved I'll be up for a match.

Sounds like you've been accepted. Ready when you are

Tavar
2011-06-06, 10:32 PM
Knightmare's Character for the Established tier is now complete.

{table=Head]Player|Character|Tier|Wins|Losses|Accepted
knightMARE|Unbreakable Wall of Swords|Standard|1|0|Yes
knightMARE|Warren|Established|-|-|Yes
Mr.Bookworm|Puncher|Established|-|-|No
Mr. Bookworm|Man with no name|Standard|0|1|Yes
Geigan|Roken|Standard|-|-|Yes[/table]

Geigan
2011-06-07, 01:22 AM
Sounds like you've been accepted. Ready when you are

Sure, who makes the battle thread? Also waiting on an answer from Tavar on something.

Radar
2011-06-07, 02:32 AM
Looks like I have to update my character sheet. How big adjustments can we make to approved character sheets? Would swaping a feat by ok?

I also posted two quations in the Legends thread.

Lostintransit
2011-06-07, 05:29 AM
Hi,

Soooo anyone for a 7th sea ToS then? or are they not being done at the moment? :smallwink:

regards

Tavar
2011-06-07, 01:25 PM
Okay, TOS: Geigan vs knightMARE1 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202261) is open for business.

Radar
2011-06-10, 01:47 PM
For the record: I got my character updated to the lates version of Legend, so I'm free to get beaten up on the arena. :smallsmile:

Tavar
2011-06-10, 03:02 PM
Bookworms Established character is complete. If, you know, anyone wants to fight Puncher.
{table=Head]Player|Character|Tier|Wins|Losses|Accepted
knightMARE|Unbreakable Wall of Swords|Standard|1|0|Yes
knightMARE|Warren|Established|-|-|Yes
Mr.Bookworm|Puncher|Established|-|-|Yes
Mr. Bookworm|Man with no name|Standard|0|1|Yes
Geigan|Roken|Standard|-|-|Yes[/table]

knightMARE
2011-06-11, 07:19 PM
I'll fight Puncher :smallbiggrin:

Claudius Maximus
2011-06-15, 12:05 AM
So apparently this (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Tgp6lLXboliwUqUVIhwRT3L_YLJWBSTKdNKeOBPTq6g/edit?hl=en_US&authkey=CJ2LgQM) is ToS-legal for testing, for any brave souls out there.

Master_Rahl22
2011-06-15, 07:34 AM
f you make a successful Fortitude save against an effect that would normally have a lesser effect on a successful save (such as a spell with a save of "Will half"), you instead negate the effect entirely.

Is that meant to be Fort or Will? If it's meant for only Fort saves, it probably shouldn't have an example that mentions Will.

Devmaar
2011-06-15, 09:39 AM
Legend character awaiting challengers

Radar
2011-06-15, 11:48 AM
Legend character awaiting challengers
Wait no more! :smallsmile:
As for the map: Columns II or it's Jumbo version from here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10977301)?

Doc Roc
2011-06-15, 12:30 PM
Is that meant to be Fort or Will? If it's meant for only Fort saves, it probably shouldn't have an example that mentions Will.

What erroneous examples? ;)

Devmaar
2011-06-15, 12:43 PM
Wait no more! :smallsmile:
As for the map: Columns II or it's Jumbo version from here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10977301)?

Either one is fine by me, I probably benefit from the smaller map though

Radar
2011-06-15, 01:52 PM
Either one is fine by me, I probably benefit from the smaller map though
Jumbo Edition it is then. :smalltongue:
Battle thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11213933#post11213933)

knightMARE
2011-06-20, 07:09 AM
Mr. Bookworm, you still up for an Established match? Or anyone else for Exalted for that matter

Geigan
2011-06-20, 02:26 PM
I'd also be up for a standard match against your standard character Mr. Bookworm. I'll see if I can get ahold of the book for the established X stuff as well.

Tavar
2011-06-20, 06:11 PM
Hmm...would anyone be interested in playing me? Obviously, someone else would be required to judge, but it could be nice.

Further houserule; Action length perfect defenses do not exist.

The Established X stuff is in the Dreams of the First age section of the errata. To save some time, here's the break down; I'll add it to my rules post.
Established character Generation
General

Virtues and backgrounds can be raised to 4 without bonus points


Celestial Training Abilities


1 dot in bureaucracy, presence, or Socialize.
2 dots in Lore
Occult 2
Ride or Sail 1
2 dots allocated among archery, Martial arts, Melee, or thrown
There are also special Training rules for each Celestial Exalt type. See more in their own write ups.
Note, training happens before any other dots are allocated.



Solars:

9/7/6 Attributes
45 dots of abilities after training
30 dots of backgrounds
35 charms
35 Bonus points
Dawn Training Abilities: two dots in Archery, Martial
Arts, Melee or Thrown; one dot in Ride or Sail; War 1
Zenith Training Abilities: Bureaucracy 1, Performance 2,
Presence 1
Twilight Training Abilities: Craft 1, Lore 1, Medicine 1,
Occult 1
Night Training Abilities: two dots in Investigation
or Larceny; one dot in Archery, Martial Arts, Melee or
Thrown; Stealth 1
Eclipse Training Abilities: Integrity 1; Linguistics 1;
one dot in Ride or Sail; one dot in Bureaucracy, Performance,
Presence or Socialize
Start at essence 4


Lunars

11/9/8 attributes, +2 points for caste/favored.
38 dots of abilities after training, 2 favored attributes in addition to survival
20 dots of backgrounds
30 charms or knacks
35 bonus points
5 Virtues
Start at essence 4
Full Moon Training Abilities: one dot in either Archery,
Martial Arts, Melee or Thrown; Resistance 1; Survival 1;
War 1
Waxing Moon Training Abilities: Performance 1,
Presence 1, Socialize 1, Survival 1
Half Moon Training Abilities: Investigation 1, Presence 1,
Survival 1, War 1
Waning Moon Training Abilities: Larceny 2, Stealth 1,
Survival 1
No Moon Training Abilities: Craft 1, Lore 1, Occult 1,
Survival 1


Sidereal
9/7/6
38 ability dots after training
20 dots of backgrounds
30 charms
5 dots of virtues
35 bonus points
Journeys Training Abilities: one dot in
Athletics or Survival; Linguistics 1; Martial
Arts 1; one dot in Ride or Sail
Serenity Training Abilities: one dot in
Craft, Medicine or Performance; Martial Arts 1;
Presence 1; Socialize 1
Battles Training Abilities: two dots in
Archery, Melee or Martial Arts; War 2
Secrets Training Abilities: one dot in
Awareness or Investigation; one dot in Larceny
or Socialize; Martial Arts 1; Stealth 1
Endings Training Abilities: one dot in
Awareness or Dodge; Martial Arts 2; Stealth 1
14 dots of colleges
Essence 4



Influential Dragon-Blooded Dragonblooded

9/7/5
Do not get Celestial Training. Instead, 1 dot in Archery, bureaucracy, Martial arts, Melee, occult, performance, Presence, Ride, Socialize, and war. two dots in Lore.
15 dots amoung aspect/favored abilities, 26 to spend freely. Five free dots in Specialties.
24 charms.
18 points of backgrounds.
35 bonus points
5 virtues.
Essence 4

Nohwl
2011-06-20, 09:16 PM
ok, just got another character approved for the legend part of the tos. anyone want to verse me?

Radar
2011-06-21, 02:41 AM
ok, just got another character approved for the legend part of the tos. anyone want to verse me?
There's one trigger happy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvEGQ4XkDMI&feature=related) character signing up for a fight. :smallsmile:

Geigan
2011-06-21, 06:44 AM
Hmm...would anyone be interested in playing me? Obviously, someone else would be required to judge, but it could be nice.

Further houserule; Action length perfect defenses do not exist.

The Established X stuff is in the Dreams of the First age section of the errata. To save some time, here's the break down; I'll add it to my rules post.
Established character Generation
General

Virtues and backgrounds can be raised to 4 without bonus points


Celestial Training Abilities


1 dot in bureaucracy, presence, or Socialize.
2 dots in Lore
Occult 2
Ride or Sail 1
2 dots allocated among archery, Martial arts, Melee, or thrown
There are also special Training rules for each Celestial Exalt type. See more in their own write ups.
Note, training happens before any other dots are allocated.



Solars:

9/7/6 Attributes
45 dots of abilities after training
30 dots of backgrounds
35 charms
35 Bonus points
Dawn Training Abilities: two dots in Archery, Martial
Arts, Melee or Thrown; one dot in Ride or Sail; War 1
Zenith Training Abilities: Bureaucracy 1, Performance 2,
Presence 1
Twilight Training Abilities: Craft 1, Lore 1, Medicine 1,
Occult 1
Night Training Abilities: two dots in Investigation
or Larceny; one dot in Archery, Martial Arts, Melee or
Thrown; Stealth 1
Eclipse Training Abilities: Integrity 1; Linguistics 1;
one dot in Ride or Sail; one dot in Bureaucracy, Performance,
Presence or Socialize
Start at essence 4


Lunars

11/9/8 attributes, +2 points for caste/favored.
38 dots of abilities after training, 2 favored attributes in addition to survival
20 dots of backgrounds
30 charms or knacks
35 bonus points
5 Virtues
Start at essence 4
Full Moon Training Abilities: one dot in either Archery,
Martial Arts, Melee or Thrown; Resistance 1; Survival 1;
War 1
Waxing Moon Training Abilities: Performance 1,
Presence 1, Socialize 1, Survival 1
Half Moon Training Abilities: Investigation 1, Presence 1,
Survival 1, War 1
Waning Moon Training Abilities: Larceny 2, Stealth 1,
Survival 1
No Moon Training Abilities: Craft 1, Lore 1, Occult 1,
Survival 1


Sidereal
9/7/6
38 ability dots after training
20 dots of backgrounds
30 charms
5 dots of virtues
35 bonus points
Journeys Training Abilities: one dot in
Athletics or Survival; Linguistics 1; Martial
Arts 1; one dot in Ride or Sail
Serenity Training Abilities: one dot in
Craft, Medicine or Performance; Martial Arts 1;
Presence 1; Socialize 1
Battles Training Abilities: two dots in
Archery, Melee or Martial Arts; War 2
Secrets Training Abilities: one dot in
Awareness or Investigation; one dot in Larceny
or Socialize; Martial Arts 1; Stealth 1
Endings Training Abilities: one dot in
Awareness or Dodge; Martial Arts 2; Stealth 1
14 dots of colleges
Essence 4



Influential Dragon-Blooded Dragonblooded

9/7/5
Do not get Celestial Training. Instead, 1 dot in Archery, bureaucracy, Martial arts, Melee, occult, performance, Presence, Ride, Socialize, and war. two dots in Lore.
15 dots amoung aspect/favored abilities, 26 to spend freely. Five free dots in Specialties.
24 charms.
18 points of backgrounds.
35 bonus points
5 virtues.
Essence 4


Play you at established or standard? And thank you for the rules I was getting confused looking for them.

Mr.Bookworm
2011-06-21, 06:59 AM
Mr. Bookworm, you still up for an Established match? Or anyone else for Exalted for that matter

Sure! Let's do it.

knightMARE
2011-06-21, 08:50 AM
Hmm...would anyone be interested in playing me? Obviously, someone else would be required to judge, but it could be nice.

Further houserule; Action length perfect defenses do not exist.

The Established X stuff is in the Dreams of the First age section of the errata. To save some time, here's the break down; I'll add it to my rules post.
Established character Generation
General

Virtues and backgrounds can be raised to 4 without bonus points


Celestial Training Abilities


1 dot in bureaucracy, presence, or Socialize.
2 dots in Lore
Occult 2
Ride or Sail 1
2 dots allocated among archery, Martial arts, Melee, or thrown
There are also special Training rules for each Celestial Exalt type. See more in their own write ups.
Note, training happens before any other dots are allocated.



Solars:

9/7/6 Attributes
45 dots of abilities after training
30 dots of backgrounds
35 charms
35 Bonus points
Dawn Training Abilities: two dots in Archery, Martial
Arts, Melee or Thrown; one dot in Ride or Sail; War 1
Zenith Training Abilities: Bureaucracy 1, Performance 2,
Presence 1
Twilight Training Abilities: Craft 1, Lore 1, Medicine 1,
Occult 1
Night Training Abilities: two dots in Investigation
or Larceny; one dot in Archery, Martial Arts, Melee or
Thrown; Stealth 1
Eclipse Training Abilities: Integrity 1; Linguistics 1;
one dot in Ride or Sail; one dot in Bureaucracy, Performance,
Presence or Socialize
Start at essence 4


Lunars

11/9/8 attributes, +2 points for caste/favored.
38 dots of abilities after training, 2 favored attributes in addition to survival
20 dots of backgrounds
30 charms or knacks
35 bonus points
5 Virtues
Start at essence 4
Full Moon Training Abilities: one dot in either Archery,
Martial Arts, Melee or Thrown; Resistance 1; Survival 1;
War 1
Waxing Moon Training Abilities: Performance 1,
Presence 1, Socialize 1, Survival 1
Half Moon Training Abilities: Investigation 1, Presence 1,
Survival 1, War 1
Waning Moon Training Abilities: Larceny 2, Stealth 1,
Survival 1
No Moon Training Abilities: Craft 1, Lore 1, Occult 1,
Survival 1


Sidereal
9/7/6
38 ability dots after training
20 dots of backgrounds
30 charms
5 dots of virtues
35 bonus points
Journeys Training Abilities: one dot in
Athletics or Survival; Linguistics 1; Martial
Arts 1; one dot in Ride or Sail
Serenity Training Abilities: one dot in
Craft, Medicine or Performance; Martial Arts 1;
Presence 1; Socialize 1
Battles Training Abilities: two dots in
Archery, Melee or Martial Arts; War 2
Secrets Training Abilities: one dot in
Awareness or Investigation; one dot in Larceny
or Socialize; Martial Arts 1; Stealth 1
Endings Training Abilities: one dot in
Awareness or Dodge; Martial Arts 2; Stealth 1
14 dots of colleges
Essence 4



Influential Dragon-Blooded Dragonblooded

9/7/5
Do not get Celestial Training. Instead, 1 dot in Archery, bureaucracy, Martial arts, Melee, occult, performance, Presence, Ride, Socialize, and war. two dots in Lore.
15 dots amoung aspect/favored abilities, 26 to spend freely. Five free dots in Specialties.
24 charms.
18 points of backgrounds.
35 bonus points
5 virtues.
Essence 4


Also willing to fight you at either tier

Nohwl
2011-06-21, 12:17 PM
There's one trigger happy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvEGQ4XkDMI&feature=related) character signing up for a fight. :smallsmile:

alright. columns 2 jumbo for the map?

Radar
2011-06-21, 12:33 PM
alright. columns 2 jumbo for the map?
Sounds good for me.

Doc Roc
2011-06-21, 12:45 PM
Can I get some feedback on how we like Legend? Are we enjoying our fights?

Nohwl
2011-06-21, 02:00 PM
Sounds good for me.

the thread is here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204109)

Radar
2011-06-21, 02:06 PM
Can I get some feedback on how we like Legend? Are we enjoying our fights?
It's still hard to be precise. In my first fight I one-shoted my enemy before he got a chance to move, which was fun in it's own right, but I didn't get to try out my character properly (alright, it wasn't just fun - Cheshire cat would envy my smile).

My second fight is on hold after first round (latest update did put a damper on my stats, but Dex based classes were on a too big advantage) and my third fight is yet to begin.

One thing I noticed, is much higher mobility then in D&D 3.5 - most old ToS maps are way too small for Legend.

Master_Rahl22
2011-06-21, 03:25 PM
My first fight was interesting. It was a race to get a crit before my Rage ran out. I couldn't do any lasting damage in the face of my opponent's healing, which was pretty annoying. I'm fairly sure that he was a Sage too, so it wasn't going to run out. It took a crit on my part to finally put him down. It was certainly interesting and I like that healing isn't weak, but maybe it was a bit too strong.

I keep meaning to get my second character updated with the new version of the rules but I keep forgetting about it. Perhaps I'll get him done and submitted soon so I can provide more feedback.

Doc Roc
2011-06-21, 10:29 PM
New rules! First Post updated.

Tavar
2011-06-22, 11:51 AM
Okay, I think my Solar hunter is ready to go. Anyone up for a whirl?
Name: Ruinous Hunter
Exalt Type and Caste:Night cast Solar
Anima:

Motivation:To hunt the greatest game.

Background:

Attributes
Primary (Physical/Social/Mental): 8
Secondary (Physical/Social/Mental): 6
Tertiary (Physical/Social/Mental): 4

Physical:
Strength ●●●●
Dexterity ●●●●●
Stamina ●●

Social:
Charisma ●●
Manipulation ●●
Appearance ●●●

Mental
Perception ●●●
Intelligence ●●
Wits ●●●●
Abilities (Specializations +)
[Note: Place [C]aste and [F]avoured tags, for clarity.]
Total without BP/XP: 28
(If using Dawn Solution rules, 4 free specialty dots, and Abilities can be raised to 5 without BP)

[F]Archery ●●●●● (Bows +●●●)
Martial Arts
Melee
Thrown
War

[F]Integrity ●
Performance
Presence
[F]Resistance ●
[F]Survival ●

Craft
Investigate
Lore ●
Medicine
Occult

[C]Athletics ●●●●●
[C]Awareness ●●●●●
[C]Dodge ●●●●●
[C]Larceny
[C]Stealth ●●● (hiding from prey +●)

Bureaucracy
Linguistics ●
[F]Ride ●
Sail
Socialize
Backgrounds, Artifacts and Equipment:Backgrounds:

Artifacts and Equipment:
Artifact ●●●: Yori Rapid Response Armor(WotLA, 6)Sensory Augmentation Visor: +2
bonus to Awareness; negates all
penalties from darkness less than pitch black.
Adaptive Camoufl age Subsystem: +2 bonus to Stealth
while moving or +3 while stationary. Exomuscular Fibers: +1 bonus to Strength for feats of
strength and infl icting damage with attacks.
Peripatetic Greaves: + 3 yards per tick to move actions,
and +6 yards per tick to dash actions; 10mph marching
movement rate.
Upkeep: None.
Soak+7L/8B Hardness 3L/3BMobility0 Fatigue1 Attune6


Artifact ●●●: Orichalcum Short Powerbow, inset with Gladestalker stone

Manse: ●●●
Stone: Gladestalker Stone, oricalcum Powerbow OD Codex Page 100

Resources: ●
Reason for value
> [List of purchases, and sources]

Charms
Awareness
Excellencies
First Excellency
[Charms]
Panoptic Fusion Discipline
Keen Eye Eye Technique
Unsurpassed Eye Discipline

Athletics
Excellencies
Second Athletics Excellency
[Charms]
Strength Increasing Exercise
Lightning Speed

Dodge
excellencies
First Excellency
[Charms]
Shadow over Water

Archery
Excellencies
First Excellency
[Charms]
There is no Wind
Trance of Unhesitating Speed
Flashing Vengeance draw
Essence Arrow attack(fiery arrow attack)
Storm Gathering Practice

Resistance
excellencies
First Resistance
[Charms]
Ox body x3(1 -0 level, 4 -1 levels)




Combos:
Utility combo; Strength Increasing Exercise,Lightning Speed
Join Battle Combo; Panoptic Fusion Discipline, Keen Eye Eye Technique, Unsurpassed Eye Discipline


Combat Stats:
Join Combat:

Attacks:
Powerbow: Speed 6 Acc: 19 | Damage: 11+ammo |Range 300| Rate: 2

Hands:
Acc: X [(((Dex+Martial Arts)+1)+Any other dice bonuses)] | Damage: [Str+0B] | Parry DV: [(((Dex+Ability)+2)= X /2 round up) = Base + Modifiers] | Rate: 3

Feet:
Acc: X [(((Dex+Martial Arts)+0)+Any other dice bonuses)] | Damage: [Str+3B] | Parry DV: [(((Dex+Ability)-2)= X /2 round up) = Base + Modifiers] | Rate: 2

Clinch:
Acc: X [(((Dex+Martial Arts)+0)+Any other dice bonuses)] | Damage: [Str+0B] | Parry DV: - | Rate: 3
Dodge DV: X [((((Dex+Ability)+Essence)+Bonus Dice From Equipment) = X /2 round up) = Base + Modifiers]

Permanent Charms (Effects)

Soak:
Bashing: [9]
Lethal: [8]
Aggravated: [7]

Hardness:
Bashing: 3
Lethal: 3
Aggravated: 3

Health:
-0 [ ][ ]
-1 [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
-2 [ ][ ]
-4 [ ]
X [ ]

Mental Defenses:
Dodge MDV: 4
Charisma Parry MDV:
>Presence: [(((Charisma+Presence)+Relevant Specialty)+Any other dice modifiers) /2 round up) + Any other bonuses.]
>Performance: [(((Charisma+Performance)+Relevant Specialty)+Any other dice modifiers) /2 round up) + Any other bonuses.]
Manipulation Parry MDV:
>Presence: [(((Manipulation+Presence)+Relevant Specialty)+Any other dice modifiers) /2 round up) + Any other bonuses.]
>Performance: [(((Manipulation+Performance)+Relevant Specialty)+Any other dice modifiers) /2 round up) + Any other bonuses.]

Virtues:
Compassion ●
Conviction ●●
Temperance ●●●
Valor ●●●

Virtue Flaw/Flawed Virtue:

Intimacies:

Languages:
??? (Native)

Willpower: ●●●●●

Essence:
Permanent: ●●●
Personal: Current (14)
Peripheral: Current (25) (10)
Bonus Points and XP:
Bonus Points:

Total:
7 points on Essence 3.
5 points on combos.
Shadow Over Water
18/18 | Flaws:

Experience Points. Spent: X | Left: Y | Total: Z

knightMARE
2011-06-22, 09:41 PM
I am if we find a judge

Tavar
2011-06-22, 09:49 PM
So, anyone willing to be a substitute judge, for matches where I'm a combatant?

Mr.Bookworm
2011-06-22, 10:13 PM
As long as it doesn't require time investment on par with STing, I could do it.

Also, howabout knight and I's Established match?

Tavar
2011-06-22, 11:24 PM
Right. I'll start that thread momentarily. I guess you can start ours whenever you like, as well. If you need, I can give you the map I've been using.

And here it is! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11267565#post11267565)

Claudius Maximus
2011-06-23, 06:04 PM
New ToS rule for Legend characters:

- The Useful Goggles do not impair sight.

This is a quick fix that will likely make its way into the next legend revision.

Mr.Bookworm
2011-06-23, 08:13 PM
Right. I'll start that thread momentarily. I guess you can start ours whenever you like, as well. If you need, I can give you the map I've been using.

That would be appreciated. I assume you want to use the same map we used in our first match?

Or do either of you have a particular preference?

knightMARE
2011-06-23, 08:25 PM
The new arena one from our current match seems interesting

Tavar
2011-06-23, 08:35 PM
The new map is also a bit of a boost in terms of lethallity. For a couple of reasons that I don't want to reveal yet. I'd say starting with the normal, jungle overgrown city would work fine. I'd suggest just taking the map from the old thread.

Mr.Bookworm
2011-06-24, 11:18 PM
Right. I'll start that thread momentarily. I guess you can start ours whenever you like, as well. If you need, I can give you the map I've been using.

Here is the thread. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11282158#post11282158) The map would be appreciated. Also, I need both of your character sheets.

Tavar
2011-06-24, 11:59 PM
I posted the map in the thread, and PM's the sheet to you. I'll post in a second.

Nohwl
2011-06-27, 11:22 AM
i made a list of every match that's happened so far, tell me if i've missed any.


Legend
Nohwl vs. Bucky (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198993)
Master_Rahl22 vs. theterran (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10977301)
TheAmishPirate vs. theterran (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199620)
Bucky vs. Radar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200047)
Radar vs. Devmaar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11213933)
Nohwl vs. Radar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204109)

Exalted
knightMARE vs. Mr.Bookworm (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11001634)
Geigan vs. knightMARE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202261)
knightMARE vs. Mr.Bookworm again (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11267565)
Tavar vs. knightMARE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11282158)

Doc Roc
2011-07-13, 08:48 PM
True Mage (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1F_0UpdhtduJV-o0LHloq6dFsjJFXKa4tTUD-LDI31-M/edit?hl=en_US) and Consumables (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WHJLFNngyA6sfgGkNX3AdaUj8H_JdevqLP1Hh5I52cU/edit?hl=en_US&authkey=CLidr8oD) enter legality, but must be announced. Both characters must use consumables for a fight to be legal.