Level 5 arcanist using only Core and Completes

[tuesdayscoming]

I got in an argument last night with one of my real life gaming buddies about whether or not a level 20 arcane caster could beat a level 20 fighter at his own game. I argued for the arcanist, but he wasn't having any of it. A duel was proposed, but another friend ended up siding with me and we convinced the fighter enthusiast of the error of his ways.

We decided we'd still like to have a little competition, but at a level where the power disparity isn't quite so glaring: level 5.

So the challenge is this: using only Core and the Complete series, build a 5th level, single class character, and battle to the death. 32 point buy, standard WBL, no flaws, no traits.

My opponent is going fighter, and I think I will be going wizard rather than sorcerer for access to level 3 spells. Aside from that, though, Im not quite sure what direction to go. I've never actually played a wizard at this low a level, so I really don't know what options are even open to me.

Anyone have any suggestions for feats, spell choices (besides the obvious Fly), etc?

One thought I did have, how viable an option is it to rely on my familiar as a second combatant at this level?

[Diarmuid]

Take Fly and Fireball as your third level spell, take Fiery Burst as a feat, take protection from arrows as a 2nd lvl spell....kill the fighter.

[pilvento]

take improved initiative too its a must, a lucky charge can kill you in a pinch.

Also, instead of burning the fighter, use hold person and stab him to death using his own weapon.

[Tvtyrant]

At his own game as in a sword fight, or in the form of just who kills who?

Because you will win the killing contest without a hitch, the sword one would be slightly more difficult.

[RaginChangeling]

Glitterdust, Grease and Sleep are also good spells to fill out your spellbook. If you nail him with sleep, make sure to carry around a Scythe to Coup-de-Grace him with.

[Tvtyrant]

Black Tentacles!

[Eldan]

Too bad PHBII isn't in. Abrupt Jaunt alone should make a fighter cry.

Your best defence is being out of reach, so fly is mandatory. Since he'll also have a bow, if he isn't stupid, you'll need protection from arrows as well.

From then on, do whatever you want.

[Eldariel]

Take Fly and Fireball as your third level spell, take Fiery Burst as a feat, take protection from arrows as a 2nd lvl spell....kill the fighter.

Not gonna work, I'm afraid. If the Fighter has a bow, it'll be magical and Protection from Arrows will be all but useless.


I think you'll want to focus on debuffing him, trying to get him to Coup De Graceable position or just make him weak enough that you can kick his ass the oldfashioned way.

Obvious things you want:
- Invisibility (Fighter has a dearth of ways to locate you under it so it'll buy you near infinite time to buff up; all he can do is hear the casting, which you can negate by spending a move action after each spell)
- Alter Self (+6 Natural Armor in Trogdolyte-form, for example)
- Mage Armor (+4 Armor-bonus on hours/level with a level 1 slot; obvious)
- Fly (obvious)
- Shield (+4 Shield; not all that amazing but it's still +4 AC)

Reduce Person is also an option. Far as actual offense goes, you could most certainly try just beating him down. Enlarge Person yourself, Dispel any magical buffs he has and proceed to smackdown with Improved Trip at 20' reach and Combat Reflexes. That would require some base Strength tho which is kinda a downer.

More efficient is to probably use spells. Color Spray could stun him for one round but as it takes you about one round to cast the spell, that won't get you too far (unless you want to nibble him to death with your AC or something). Glitterdust to blind him is pretty solid; there's no way he'll have enough Listen to locate you if you Move Silently so you could just take potshots for forever. Grease is likewise probably solid. Web is probably the strongest disabling spell you have on these levels; chances of Fighter getting out are exceedingly slim and provided he's left near the edge, you can take potshots at him until he dies. Stinking Cloud unfortunately targets Fort so that's probably wasted effort and I'm not sure Charm Person counts as winning the encounter. Slow and Pyrotechnics should both be considerations tho.


The most efficient damage spells on these levels is Scorching Ray, but it's only 4d6 (or 8d6 with a ton of work); Fiery Burst is max 4d6 on these levels (and that requires shenanigans; 3d6 is the safest estimate) which'll take a while. We can estimate a level 5 Fighter to have around 10+4*5.5+4*5 HP (assuming 18 Con here; might be lower but better a high than a low estimate). That gives him about 52 HP. One 8d6 Scorching Ray would cut that to about half, though hit isn't a guarantee (you'll probably be looking at a touch attack at +5 or so).

Oh, and you should obviously specialize. I'd say Conjuration Spec with Evocation and Enchantment as the banned schools, unless you go for some Scorching Ray strategy in which case you should ban Necromancy and Enchantment (fact is, Enchantment just won't do much).

Note that Complete Arcane offers Bands of Steel on 3rd level as an amazing disable spell. You have some options but definitely target Reflex- or Will-save if you go with spell disables. If you go with Scorching Rays, remember to boost your caster level (e.g. Fiery Burst from Complete Mage does that). If you go brawl him, remember to waste your feats on Combat Expertise and Improved Trip. That'll give you quite the decent Trip score.


Other than that, umm, Gray Elf (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/elf.htm#grayElf) with Int/Dex/Con focus is probably the way to go. Middle-Aged Gray Elf with starting 18 Int (may or may not be doable) would have 24 Int with a +2 Int item, getting you a 2nd extra 3rd level slot. That may be worth going for (it'll also mean your save-or-X spells can have massive DC 20 without Spell Focus: Conjuration, or 22 with Greater SF: Conjuration from 3rd level - Fighter's non-Fort base saves are +1 at this point and even with 18 Dex/Wis (hah) and +2 Cloak, he'd be looking at only +6).

If you go for a brawl-him-into-submission build, you'll want some Str (14 or so); in that case, skipping Elf for probably Human (or Orc for hilarity; you only need 16 Int on these levels anyways) is the way to go. Much depends on your character creation rules, really. 25 PB is pretty unkind to a Fighting Wizard but extremely generous to a plain ol' Wizard. The core of "go invisible, fly, buff up, deliver the smackdown" stands.

EDIT: Oh, and False Life, provided you aren't going Ban Necro-strat, will bring your HP total up significantly. A 14 Con Wizard goes from 26 to 37 HP (on average) with it. That's only 10 less than a 14 Con Fighter.

EDIT#2: Oh, and one of the best unsung ways to finish a disabled opponent off is Summon Swarm. It's a fine spell indeed, doing unstoppable damage over and over. Sure, it only does 1d6 of it a round but with duration Concentration, it'll keep at it. Bat Swarm with its Wounding adds a steady clock to the whole deal.

EDIT#3: Oh, and Hold Person is a fine way to finish most Fighters off; Paralyzed people are good as helpless (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#paralyzed). Coup de Grace with a scythe should be an appropriate finish. Enchantment, tho.

[Greenish]

Because you will win the killing contest without a hitch, the sword one would be slightly more difficult.We had a series of bouts between level 6 fighter vs level 6 wizard in melee. Crappy wizard (half-orc with MWP for scythe) beat crappy fighter (sword & board with spinning sword, shield stuff), then got beat by specialized fighter (reach weapon, Mage Slayer, PMC & PMD).

A bunch of other fights, too, I seem to recall.

Of course, level 5 is a dead level for fighters, but wizards gain 3rd level spells, while 6th level is no biggie for wizards, but fighters gain another feat (and there are many good ones that require BAB 6+ or 8+ ranks) and second iterative.

A well built wizard with a method for gaining buff rounds (invisibility or flight, most likely) should be okay against most fighters, but Mage Slayer line is excellent against a wizard that actually voluntarily comes to your melee range.

[tuesdayscoming]

At his own game as in a sword fight, or in the form of just who kills who?

Because you will win the killing contest without a hitch, the sword one would be slightly more difficult.

The original contest (lvl 20) was going to be fighter vs melee wizard, but that requirement has been lifted for the level 5 fight. It would still be cool if I could out melee him, though I'm not set on any one combat style for this. He just needs to die.


My word, thank you for all of the lovely suggestions! I'm starting to get quite excited for this. I'm sure we'll do a 2/3 thing, and it would be great to destroy him each time with an entirely different strategy :smallbiggrin:.

Re: Abrupt Jaunt, I'm gonna check and see with our judge if he considers that 'Core'. Probably not, but it never hurts to ask!

[Eldariel]

Quick math on the highest possible Fighter Will-save for this level:

1 Base + 5 Wis + 2 Resistance + 2 Resolute + 2 Iron Will = +12; that would give him 55% chances of making the save on Hold Person. He, however, would be out of resources to get more than 1 Base + 2 Dex + 2 Resistance + 2 Quick Reflexes = +7 against the DC 20 of Bands of Steel (or DC 19 of Web; though even if you make the save on Web you're still ****ed). Either way, one or the other would completely wreck him.

And this is on a Fighter who's devoting pretty much all his feats, stats and WBL on his two weak saves (and thus probably has lowish Str, no offense to speak of, mediocre Fort-save and inability to defend against purely physical attacks).

[tuesdayscoming]

Damn, Eldariel, great thoughts! Very helpful, thanks much.

[ubergeek63]

Damn, Eldariel, great thoughts! Very helpful, thanks much.

too bad you can not use races. races of the dragon has power word pain, a lvl 1 that does 1d6 for many rounds.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Go specialist transmuter.
Gear: Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend, Spellbook, Spell Component Pouch, large metal dome (shrunk), liquid-hot magma (shrunk).
Spells cast ahead of time: Explosive Runes ad infinitum, Extended Shrink Item x20.
Spells prepared: Dispel magic, Fly.
You have a flying familiar.

Trick 1: The familiar carries a gigantic wad of paper scraps, each bearing an Explosive Runes spell, and drops it into the Fighter's square. You cast Dispel Magic as an area effect and voluntarily fail the dispel check against each scrap of paper, each Explosive Runes spell goes off and the Fighter takes nigh-infinite damage.

Trick 2: The familiar or yourself carries the metal dome up and drops it above the Fighter. There are numerous cloth patches stuck to the inside each of which is several cubic feet of lava, shrunken. As the dome falls you speak the command word to unshrink it, and it lands over the fighter trapping him inside. You then speak the command word to unshrink the lava, the fighter is now completely submerged in molten lava, taking 20d6 damage per round and risking drowning, trapped under an extremely heavy and thick metal dome.

[Aron Times]

Charm Person.

gg no re